Indeed.  

 you really never learn, huh?  

 cope cope cope cope cope cope cope cope cope cope cope cope cope cope cope cope cope cope cope cope cope cope cope cope cope cope cope cope cope cope cope cope cope cope cope cope cope cope cope cope cope cope cope cope cope cope cope cope cope cope cope cope cope cope cope cope cope cope cope cope cope cope cope  

 Just admit it, Monero was right all along. Just say it "ok, we were wrong, Monero folks were right all along." Say it, life will be so much easier. Live in truth.  

 what are you yapping about? how does monero plan to scale since that’s what we’re talking about. 

 Lightning doesn't scale.  Bitcoin doesn't scale.  The scaling problem of blockchains is an issue for all cryptocurrency. 

 Only 2 or 3 well regulated mints will ever be accepted as "trusted" 

 not if the authorities hunt them down. it’ll be like a hydra tho 

 They will hunt down any mint that becomes big enough for them to worry. That removes any sense of trust which you need in other to use a custodian.

People won't be up to regularly chaning to a new rando anon mint when their former one was just seized by the feds. 

 Seems like a Catch 22 

Publicly known mint runners that become popular will be easier for users to trust, but also easier for governments to target/regulate/take down

Anonymous mint runners will be harder for governments to target, but easier to rugpull their users without consequence 

 Or we could have local mint operators, an uncle jim scenario, where you have the trust, but its just known in that circle. 

 That's true, but downside is that would be a very small anon set if users are fractured over thousands of mints 

 That is also true! Maybe community level? 

 if someone wandered into https://ethresear.ch and proposed chaumian ecash, everyone there would have said "that's FUCKING stupid get out." 

 no they wouldn’t, even if it’s custodial it’s still a very elegant application of blind signatures for payments. 

if it was somehow only proposed today you’d find they’d would just to try find a way to make it non-custodial probably 

 the number of bitcoiners who don't care that chaumian ecash is custodial is frankly astonishing. this is supposed to be treated like an emergency. chaumian ecash throws trustlessness completely out the window. I am completely stunned by the mental gymnastics they are using to rationalize it. 

 its an altcoin. not mad at it. i like it for what it can do. everything has its limitations. use with alt wallets and some care. 

 custodians are not the enemy retard- your priors are completely wrong.

interesting tho, id love to hear your mental gymnastics to rationalise why arbitrum/optimism/etc are fine when their bridge contracts are upgradable by a multisig. no-one seems to care that none of ethereum’s L2s are trustless despite being marketed like they are. 

 aren’t trustless* 

 I've said it a million times. nobody has a finished rollup yet. the development comes in stages. at stage 2 there are no more training wheels. it's meant to be completely trustless at stage 2 and until then stage 1 rollups still have escape hatches so your funds cannot be stolen or blocked from withdrawal. and the design would not coerce people into using custodians like lightning does because it doesn't use payment channels. rollups are a better foundation than payment channels. 

 oh ok, well no-one has finished lighting or cashu then either. stage 2 cashu is completely self-custodial- it’s on the roadmap 

 it is an elegant solution but yes they would bend it to fit their mission. thats their job.