Oddbean new post about login | logout nostr 2025: relays are communities, and clients use outbox, then CEOs can't become big enough to matter. but they will try, oh yes. ✨ #mistakesweremade
Relays as explicit communities is never going to work. Let them watch and learn. Ditto is just federated mastodon with extra steps — literally walking backwards… 🤦♂️
i think it will 🦖 relays are not like mastadon, you can move your presence at will. i duno what ditto is doing, can you not move off it?
Data portability should be the primary priority of Nostr — it’s what enables freedom and low exit costs… no single server being a monopoly over your data. E2E communities is client based process via MLS, not server based with Ditto. Ditto and Mastodon are philosophically incorrect and are abhorrent. The only reason I stick around Nostr is due to the power of data portability.
I can move my MLS group chats from relay to relay… the client can display that as group DMs or a communities tab… or both… Ditto is unnecessary. 🤦♂️
outbox appears to be working, so does inbox, sure its inefficient, but guess what, moores law amethyst, gossip, coracle, no notes left behind. smaller relays, authentication
Outbox & inbox are awesome. 🙌 Did you see the DHT Outbox section at the end of my talk? You might find it intriguing!
i did watch. my biggest takeaway is that you arent saying outbox absolutely will never work anymore 🫠 (so, ya im not gonna accept your 'community relays wont work' sentiment either) till i see it not work. nostrbadger dgaf
Outbox works well across well-connected relays, it’s just disparate relays that don’t even know of each other — they can’t share the NIP-65 event. If you aren’t aware of relays in other countries then you can’t sync with them. The DHT enables you to discover the other relays. See?
ah, yes, relay discovery, it sounds like you have DHT for this, ive been working on implementing nip66 draft. relays and clients of relays to share discovery info, by posting it to other relays
If you don’t know other relays exist, you can’t post to them! That’s the point of the DHT… DHTs let you discover neighboring nodes without a centralized list of nodes.
oh man, i hear ya man, no need to shout. 😂 #relays 🦖
How does one achieve this primary goal? Why would relay operators be willing to receiev, store, transfer and respond with user data? Since right now its based on pure enthusiams and facts that operating a relay costs pennies and has almost no overhead and completely no legal consequences
I right clicked saved for special occasions like this https://image.nostr.build/f8de5a6ab5beddcb9dd1d98bcafe3107e195ba066a8817e2213d481ff722f11c.jpg
