Oddbean new post about login | logout FinCEN’s proposal to outlaw all crypto privacy is a huge overreach. They apply a section of the Patriot Act on a “class of transactions” in a new precedent. Doesn’t matter if it’s custodial or noncustodial- merely using certain type of code can be an illegal act. People are caught by the potential spot ETF, meanwhile this is proposed. Now they fight you. https://www.nobsbitcoin.com/fincen-wants-to-outlaw-certain-bitcoin-on-chain-transactions/
Bitcoin is a litmus test for a free society. Needless to say… we are not free.
Good. It will suck for many, but bitcoin needs this so it can emerge even stronger on the other side.
Almost every nation state (not just US) are very obsessed with surveillance. I hope people don't get too much excited about #Bitcoin spot ETF. This is exactly where our focus should be. It seems like we all Bitcoiners will have to go for a war against nation states for privacy. Live Free or Die. #Bitcoin and #NOSTR are the only way out. nostr:note1lr8pqf4yyw4elusjxk2p0puf6kfd724yq4xgs4s4zyypdempaz6q9lujjp Nation States (not just US) are very obsessed with surveillance
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I just shook my piggy bank and mixed up the coins. Can they regulate that too?
Laughs in monero
With the other 3 people using it
https://image.nostr.build/06cc8e656fc2781f9323aec3bbde678ebde86eb0631414ca1db05b736c0445e0.jpg https://image.nostr.build/8599b34eccd2f28fc56ee3a749ab7ac044d23a8dcff609020a9ded10f9677c43.jpg https://image.nostr.build/ce5fbe19fd498ed948ec66e2f91efb9dc8fcfd388f56a23c97735d9bb86d3460.jpg https://image.nostr.build/5a409dca8ccb4b10f8879a4e7bc99137fc104cef5ce01fbdd8e3aad3724ebba0.jpg
Saw a report a few weeks ago that, on average, 8 of 11 (now 16) signatures in any given ring were linked to the NSA....
At least try making your FUD somewhat believable by learning how it works. You can't choose what transactions you are decoys for. That would also have zero effect on Monero's hidden amounts and receivers.
The point wasn't that they were choosing specific transactions, but that they were such a high percentage of the whole network that it resulted in that. The extent to which that participation was useful in undermining the network was undetermined.
Show us the report
I was wrong, or at least, passing on unverified info. Sorry. The info I shared was not from an article, but from a twitter account that has since been deleted. The post did include a link to this article: https://www.wired.com/story/monero-privacy/ That's a different thing altogether.
If you have a link to tbe source of this statistic I'd be interested to read it.
Stupid laws like that apply to monero also.
Ok, but this is exactly the scenario Monero was built for. "We're banning invisibility cloaks. We better not catch anyone using an invisibility cloak!" Same energy
Can this be stopped?
I suspect that this proposal will not pass as written but even by proposing, it will bring much more awareness to a system built of manipulation and control, versus truth and freedom. The US will not beat China by being more authoritarian than China, so I’m betting that smarter heads will prevail, but even in the event they don’t - it would only accelerate the development towards countries looking to take advantage of the US increasingly turning away from individual rights and freedoms and a free market. But as you say @LynAlden - We are in the “then they fight you” stage.
We’re just going to have to get more sly and more roundabout.
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As far as I understand it is very broad (I listened Rabbit Hole Recap) and you can be criminal just because your Transaction has more than one inputs. It is important because of privacy but also because mixing transaction from different people could be a way to default privacy while reducing the base chain transaction fees.
Yup. So then what’s the play when we see EO6102 events or regs that prevent hold keys in qualified accounts (similar to PMs) or _____? They’re going to try to force everyone into their bolshevik banking cartel approved custodians or else. Do folks really think you’re going to have a parallel black market economy with their non-KYC stack? That seems naive. It will be pretty easy for the man to programmatically hunt and kill in the era of AI and 8k fresh IRS agents. So it seems like one either needs a side pot or a trusted custodian with a shared worldview or be faced with leaving the country or achieving second passport with a way to repatriate offshore investment earnings (assumes min level of wealth) or some other hack that I’m not smart enough to figure out yet. Or we continue to slug it out earning fiat till the inevitable rise of BTC and the USofA sees the orange light… that ain’t gonna happen until after a lot a lot a pain (GDII, war, famine, CBDC, etc). What can we do to preemptively get ahead of these possible attack vectors? Maybe high profile folks like Lynn don’t wanna go on record discussing which I understand. Anyone? Anyone? Bueller? Buuueler?
Come and take it is what we say.
For sure. But like it or not…we’re out gunned both figuratively and literally. When BTC goes to 1mm demand will produce a solution to the inevitable onslaught but why not get ahead of it now and create the instrument/solution so we’re not scrambling and can include those with smaller stacks before shit gets real and economic pressure forces their hand. Do y’all really think BTC is gonna hit critical mass that will usher in such solutions before the institutional and gubment creates conditions to squeeze out the majority. I don’t wanna be part of a BTC minority when it moons. I want the masses. That’s the only way we win.
I saw your note only now. I have the same worries. I'm currently reading this book https://vonupodcast.com/free-vonu-book/ It discusses some options. It is interesting how everything is still valid or worse. But better in that we have Bitcoin and Nostr...
Took a listen to that book today. At first glance Im not sure that this dude's values would align with my priorities of being intentional about community, family, church, etc. However, I appreciated the escape hatch ideas. Im more interested with how to create financial instruments and/or align with larger financial institutions who are aligned in worldview with the aim of creating solutions to navigate the seemingly inevitable events to come so we can stay put and fight the good fight. @GulagBound and nostr:npub1zleyq5x90ssge0mjf0fquy5dd0n0z3tytqtfddzvgvh0j54e8k2sxypppaseems to be of the same mind.
Oh oh... Again cryptography turning us into possible "enemies" just for exercising the option to #privacy 🔏🥷
Bitcoin is designed to go through four phases of war against the State: 1. Non-threat honeymoon period 2. Outlaw/criminalization period 3. Hash war 4. Surrender What you are describing here is the initial phase of the Outlaw period. https://youtu.be/X_xgmVLyB94?si=u9cjDnQma61ByqUm
Can’t States just mine empty blocks? Even if they are securing the network, the are still bringing it all tx to a halt.
That's the hash war phase. It comes when the outlaw period fails. The States mines empty blocks, and the market fights back by increases fees to motivate more hashpower to come online and overpower the censor. It's a little more nuanced than that, but that's the general idea.
plebs can’t outspend the state on hash power, other states will have to help protect bitcoin if it gets attacked by nation states https://youtu.be/MTk1mPRJe_U
What would that do? It would cost about 72 billion dollars a year today to cut the tx rate to a tenth of current assuming other miners kept mining. Transactions will still confirm fees will be juicy. Ecash btw on the same mint would be untouched. Would probably explode. Harder for me to say what Lightning would do. And we’d probably see it coming from a mile away because nobody would be able to buy miners for a long time.
It’s coming, see, no one cares Regulations are completely ignored by the community with no pushback. The reason is we will all have to use it illegally anyways, so why bother.
Why bother pushing back or why bother mining empty blocks?
Because states that rely on printed money have a choice: kill Bitcoin or be killed by Bitcoin.
Bitcoin and the State (as we know it) can't both survive, especially the US. With suffient hashpower (of the levels that "Soft War" guy are advocating the Pentagon to acquire), mining empty blocks makes Bitcoin completely useless because transactions can't be put into blocks. The State has nuclear power plants and ASIC fabs (ask the NSA). This will not be an easy fight and it could go either way.
That guy is a little kookie imo. Heavy on big sounding stuff. Loose on details. How much do you think they are willing to spend to dos bitcoin? I can’t see them ever even trying knowing that the entire current US budget would still let transactions with faaat stacks of fees slip through.
Yeah there's something off about him. Budgets probably aren't relevant in a fight to the death, what really matters are capabilities - energy and ASIC production.
Reminder that the US government has spent 8 trillion dollars over 20 years on "the war on terror". It's not that Budget isn't relevant. On the contrary, the racket thrives on unlimited spending. 70 billion a year to "fight shady criminal superhackers sponsored by North Korea and Iran"? That's exactly the type of thing they want.
I hear you and that’s a good point. I think I still disagree. 72B still lets 10% of current txs through! 8T every 20 years would only allow them to bring transactions down to ~2% of current rate. Fees would be &$$&, ecash in a given mint would still be free. I suppose the mining industrial complex would lobby for that money, but we wouldn’t have any boys to immortalize for their sacrificed lives. No football stadium flyovers cuz ASICS are boring. Just data centers consuming loads of electricity, creating relatively few jobs, costing tons. There environmentalists would be absolutely extinct over the amount of CO2 or what have you being pumped into the air/earth Maybe I’m wrong about this. Oh, hey, “they” might actually leverage it to finally commercialize fusion 😆
I just wanted to bring that up. My personal opinion has always been that the status quo is split between: 1. those who are too old to get on the train like Buffet and that other dinosaur partner of his all will simply be swept aside 2. the ones that even today think they can fight this, like some leftist politicians and academics who realize that Bitcoin is inherently anti-State 3. the ones that realize that Bitcoin is inherently anti-state and instead of fighting it want to coopt it. Like BlackRock and JP Morgan. I think the last faction is destined to win.
Bro, I don't know if I can do this
The emancipation of the human spirit is worth the struggle.
The state just locked us down and forced experimental vaccines on us, trying to outlaw privacy is just another day. We build the tools and don't ask for permission.
looks like the NSA is getting ready to dump their Co!ns ... ;)
The United States federal government can officially suck my dick.
if you aren't already at the margins of their reach at this point, you are willing to be the lamb for the slaughter. europe and north america are going to be the first to burn. nostr:nevent1qqs03nssy6jz82ul7gfrt9qhs7yatykl92jq2nyg2c23zzqkuas73dqpr9mhxue69uhhyetvv9ujuumwdae8gtnnda3kjctv9uq35amnwvaz7tmsw4exzanfv3sjumn0wd68ytnvv9hxgtcpz4mhxue69uhhyetvv9ujuerpd46hxtnfduhszymhwden5te0danxvcmgv95kutnsw43z7qgcwaehxw309aex2mrp0yhxxatjwfjkuapwveukjtcpzemhxue69uhkummnw3ezumtfd3hh2tnvdakz7qg3waehxw309ahx7um5wgh8w6twv5hszrnhwden5te0dehhxtnvdakz7qgmwaehxw309ahx7um5wghx7unpdenk2urfd3kzuer9wchszrthwden5te0vfexytnfduhsxwh7k0
We are in the “then they fight you” stage. There are no laws anymore. “Law” is gone. Don’t get hung-up still thinking there are laws. It’s everyone for themselves. The people fighting within the (now) fake Laws, matter very greatly. The people rejecting the (now) fake Laws, matter very greatly. We don’t know our future. It’s never been more uncertain. The time we live in is not a good time for people who need to know how things are supposed to work. But it’s a very good time for those who are whatever the opposite of “Sociopathy” are.
Exchanges in the US are already co-opted and their over eager KYC allows the USG to track coins that originate domestically and a weapon against self custodial uses of coins from exchanges. I think this is also is a way to bully offshore banks to not work with local Bitcoin exchanges. The complexity of if a tx does or does not fall afoul of these proposed rules will not be worth the risk of losing access to the US banking system. I still don't think most government regulators realize the peril the state (and their job) is in. These regulations are just the start of them waking up.
@RobertKennedyJr said he would repeal patriot act day one @jack
Is it even possible to comply if such a law was forced on us? Isn’t privacy by default already being built into layer 1 and 2?
Is the spot Bitcoin ETF is a psyop to distract us from impending totalitarianism??
It's a step toward banning self custody. They want a clean, manageable, non-threatening Bitcoin. It's our responsibility to keep Bitcoin a threat.
share this with your representatives in the most persuasive manner. This among other things slowly attacks and reduces ways to flee tyrannical governments. The legal fight / stance is important.
Let's face it, if one day any government decides that crypto is illegal, there won’t be absolutely nothing we can do about it. For the moment, the crypto movement is tolerated, but if the feeling of mistrust towards a state, a currency or an institution grows, the tide may turn, and not necessarily in the right direction. It's the "anarchist" side of this ecosystem that displeases institutions, and that's damaging for the BTC project.
Even if only two people used Monero, it would be more private than Bitcoin.
Great retort. Very compelling.
Great retort. Very compelling.
>opt-in privacy solution 1% of bitcoiners use correctly >Already small liquidity is split between multiple protocols >degrades over time "Lol. Anonymity sets."
Laughs in taproot multisig.
Laughs in taproot multisig.
