Oddbean

Hey Nostr, a recent conversation I had sparked a bunch of questions about UBI (universal basic income). Anyone read anything interesting (on both sides of the argument) that they’d recommend? I get the basics but want to go deeper. #asknostr

4chan is managed by a Japanese named Hiroyuki.This is his basic income plan.Basic Income Proposal for Japan. https://dic.nicovideo.jp/t/a/%E3%83%99%E3%83%BC%E3%82%B7%E3%83%83%E3%82%AF%E3%82%A4%E3%83%B3%E3%82%AB%E3%83%A0%E6%A1%88

The only sound argument for it I've ever heard is that it allows for getting rid of a large part of overhead budget. Paying out any form subsidies costs a very large organization to check who gets what and why. If you pay a fixed sum to everyone, then you can get rid of the overhead costs.

It will only work if you get rid of what we currently have. In the UK for example, the welfare state costs the tax payer billions to run each year and there is so much incompetence and wastage it’s a joke (fraud, building and office costs, mistakes, overpayments/underpayments etc). It’s also a system that enslaves and traps while at the same time demoralises those caught up in it. It kills the desire for those to take on any work without being questioned by the government. It also simplifies process. EVERYONE gets the same basic amount rich or poor. No questions asked. It should not be enough to live well off but enough to get you off the street while also removing the barriers to taking on part time or full time work. It’s like a safety net. Of the trial studies run, not only did it cost less than a full blown welfare system on a yearly basis but they also found those caught at the bottom had a realistic chance of lifting themselves out of poverty and the welfare trap/cycle. This however is quite an idealistic view. But its stuff like this that is just a pure waste: https://www.theguardian.com/money/2023/dec/06/dwp-errors-leave-more-than-200000-pensioners-out-of-pocket

Free articles: - David Gordon, [To UBI, or Not to UBI, That Is The Question](https://mises.org/wire/ubi-or-not-ubi-question) - David Gordon, [UBI and the Road to Serfdom](https://mises.org/library/ubi-and-road-serfdom-0) - Jakub Bożydar Wiśniewski, [Austrian Economics vs. CBDC, ESG, UBI, and Other Newfangled Socioeconomic Gimmicks](https://mises.org/power-market/austrian-economics-vs-cbdc-esg-ubi-and-other-newfangled-socioeconomic-gimmicks)

I read this book sometime back. This were my notes on this : “This is an interesting concept I’ve been wanting to read. Often, plutocrats struggle in a capitalistic/autocratic environment. To have a baseline, to not worry abt survival day to day, to look forward to a goal - is something a large part of the world is still unfamiliar with. Is UBI an Ethos and a technocratic policy proposal ? UBI > unemployment? Can you really hack poverty? I have a lot more questions & thoughts after reading this, and would welcome book suggestions. But I think more debates - pros & cons is needed - promotes conversations around it” I think how much is needed to hack that baseline poverty would differ country by country, state by state. If it's less than an amount to hack poverty, people will not overcome economic challenges and become dependent. At the same time, many people are fucking poor and just want to survive day to day. I think UBI needs to come with a long term goal of creating an independent society. The concept alone may be abused in many ways by useless governments. Finland decreased homelessness by providing apartments for the homeless. Providing basic necessities may not be a bad thing. But it has to be targeted to specific areas and problems. I also think, establishing bitcoin as common currency (ie all countries actually using it to buy and sell goods and services) would stabilise economic disparity greatly https://m.primal.net/HTHU.jpg

In the UK benefits system there are loads of questions asked as well conditions to be met and reductions £ for £ for any income earned. Universal Credit is a super complex system which by design leads to errors and huge wastage.