Oddbean

Bitcoin has very limited blockspace. It is not meant for people transferring 100s of $. It's meant for much larger transactions. The only way you'll transact on Bitcoin is if the value you get out of this transaction is worth more than the fees you're paying. So when the Bitcoin network is used to buy 100 BTC worth of Oil from the UAE, they do not care/about the $100 transaction fees. 1. We need transactions to generate enough revenue for the miners. (Pls tell me if you disagree on this). Else, miners cannot be profitable and will move on to doing other things. Then Bitcoin mining will become a lot cheaper and the price will spiral down with many 51% attacks. 2. There isn't enough demand for the blockspace by pure transactors alone right now. But there is demand for other speculative assets that are put on Bitcoin. Thus, there are more transactions happening right now to create and buy these useless things. a good thing. 3. Anything can be bought and sold using bitcoin. It is similar to buying and selling drugs using Bitcoin, are we against it? Are we against Russians using Bitcoin? No. Why are you against people gambling on Bitcoin? It is a free network. 4. Gambling is not Bitcoin's problem to solve. Trading these useless things is a zero-sum game. People will most likely lose their bitcoins. It needs to be solved by us as a community. We should be against gambling on any chain. 5. With these things in mind, we should things that are valuable enough to justify $1000 transactions. Whether it is an L2 block that amortizes transaction fees among a lot of people and settles on Bitcoin or someone that wants to put an image on Bitcoin for history to remember. It should be allowed. To your point, we shouldnt keep the fees low because we want people from third world countries to transact on Bitcoin. We should scale Bitcoin to accommodate all of their transactions. Scaling is done by building L2s that are more valuable than trading runes or ordinals. So the value you generate by enabling thousands of people to use Bitcoin will be greater than the mere $500 transaction fees.

I like everything you said. I'll need to look more into all of your 5 points to give you a specific response. As for your first question it makes sense that fees would need to be high enough to incentivize mining profitability. Idk what the exact fee % range should be but miners should of course be rewarded. That makes sense. The free market will figure this out I'm sure. Yet I don't know enough about all this so I hope more educated people will answer your questions. 🙏🏽 For example I'm not sure if the block space is so low that ordinals or runes need to fill up empty space. Could be true... Could not... I just don't know. I'll take word for now. During the past bear market many people argued this point and said ordinals helped maintain mining fees by filling up block space or something like that. I guess that could make sense. But yet again. I just don't know. As for gambling I think people should do whatever they want. It's their money. And like you said. They will probably lose it all unfortunately. I don't gamble but if it's not my money it's not my problem. It's a free market. As for l2 solutions absolutely. L2's like lightning and liquid or fedimints and all that stuff will most definitely solve third world fee problems. The problem is that it's hard for most people to get their heads around all of this... Your right l2's make it easy. But it ain't easy to learn atm. by the time bitcoiners solved all of this, the fee charges might have already caused a decent of damage to 3rd world people and people living day to day. That's probably the worst of it. I barely started using l2's and I didn't learn it overnight. Imagine someone who has barely learned Bitcoin in El Salvador or Argentina or something. Idk. Again just learning here like everyone else. I didn't know what runes where until recently.

Yes. It is a problem. The notion in the Bitcoin land is that people should HODL bitcoin. Never spend it. If everyone holds bitcoin, who's transacting? Even then fees were $5-$10 before the oridinals craze. Now I have traveled around some third world countries in Asia, South America, Africa and even Eastern Europe. Let me tell you, no one is using the main Bitcoin network for day to day transactions. $5 per transaction is absurd. They are using centralized solutions. Only people from the first world countries were using Bitcoin to transact. Lightning does not scale as well, we all know it. We need better solutions. Keeping the fees down socially by shunning the gamblers is not the solution and infact is a problem as miners will slowly move on. Bitcoin was built on economic incentives, not social.

Yup we agree on the free market deciding what should or shouldn't succeed. 💯✊🏽 I've had Bitcoin core transactions be as low as a few cents last week! If we can have that as well as l2's that'd be pretty cool! All in all. Compared to the problems Bitcoin solves! These are small potatoes but still potatoes! 😂🫡🤙🏽🙏🏽💯✊🏽 #pleb

As for your first point. That's the first time I've had it so well explained. That makes sense! Fees need to be high enough to maintain a delicate balance of mining profitability so as to avoid a cheap 51% takeover!!! Thx for that! Learned something today! Very nice! 💯🙏🏽✊🏽🫡 #pleb

> 1. We need transactions to generate enough revenue for the miners. (Pls tell me if you disagree on this). Else, miners cannot be profitable and will move on to doing other things. Then Bitcoin mining will become a lot cheaper and the price will spiral down with many 51% attacks. Merge PR 29778 https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/29778

Ahahahahaha. This thing has such low backing that it js still called "Merge PR 29778" OP_CAT is what I can see get included in a soft fork. Good backing. And no, we're not changing the issuance of Bitcoin. There can only be 21m Bitcoins. nostr:nevent1qqs9h4g75as6r7ka7js20qzt3dhqn7jg7smkq0f0q2pk5cvjqnnupacpz3mhxue69uhhyetvv9ujumn0wd68ytnzvupzq3a7pv4gn742v6790awx0ysrfpk6g4nq99wt8keu9uu0f05d3qtwqvzqqqqqqy2ryhk6

I explained a bit about this here. Yes there will be MEV on Bitcoin. Mining pools will accept tips to have your transaction go through vs others. But wasn't it possible before this as well? Say I want to buy a $1B worth of Oil using Bitcoin. The king of UAE says the first Bitcoin transaction to hit his wallet will get the oil. Others will be refunded. If you wanted that oil, you would be willing to pay millions to the mining pools to land your transaction first. Isn't that MEV? Monotonous, anonymous transactions might not lead to MEV on Bitcoin but Bitcoin is a public chain with many known entities. It will lead to MEV one way or the other. nostr:nevent1qqsf0mjqxlrwwql6ss9kyhls3wemdymz7tq2k7nxf22jr8293py27yqppamhxue69uhkummnw3ezumt0d5pzpwe42kl97st2z7kzp59s0k83fvgnwyuaxwjvr4htfyumx2rknpfzqvzqqqqqqyyqc288