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waxwing | 1 months ago (raw) | root | parent | reply | flag +10 
 Pretty bad/sloppy takes mixed in with decent analysis there. 'Joinmarket is an old version of ZL'  .. no, not even a little bit true. 'Joinmarket is not usable except by devs' that one's more just a matter of opinion, but it's pretty bad to not even mention JAM plus the other client(s) joininbox of @openoms.
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Kortik 🇦🇲 | 1 months ago (raw) | root | parent | reply | flag +5 
 Bad sloppy takes you say? - the reality is that a coinjoin is not just about coordinating multiple users and creating equal outputs. It needs to have a strong foundation. Have you read Kristov's Coinjoin sudoku and LaurentMT's probabilistic link analysis? Maker/taker model and degree of coordination in JM is broken especially in finding the makers.

The liquidity in Joinmarket is asymmetric, with a lot on the maker side and very little on the taker side. This creates liquidity crises. Additionally, it is very easy to detect the taker output for that reason. In Samourai, the structure of JM was adopted but balanced out, as you have to be a "taker" once in order to become a "maker" and mix as much as you want.

One thing that is very revealing is that Samourai could have paid out sats to those providing liquidity but
1) it was never needed
2) users complained about too much liquidity and not getting remixes
3) SCODE discount system used for tx0 (makers)
And JoinMarket has had clear cases of being sybilled

The conclusion is that Whirlpool is an improved evolution of Joinmarket!
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Kanzan | 1 months ago (raw) | root | parent | reply | flag 
 umm awkward
😬
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Kortik 🇦🇲 | 1 months ago (raw) | root | parent | reply | flag +2 
 It’s not awkward. If wasabi and JM worked their devs would be in hiding or in jail. As simple as that