Oddbean

When it comes to all fiction you consume (books, shows, movies), do you tend to remember the villain or the hero more, many years later? Here are some variables to consider: -Characters and concepts that stuck with you personally, for years. -Memorable quotes or images. -Iconic characters. Archetypes. Things you want to replicate. -Roles that were so fucking well-acted that it can't be topped, and thus brought out the full complexity of the character. Clarifications prior to answering: -Villains include very bad folks that turn good at the end (e.g. Darth Vader). Partial goodness is often part of good villain design. -Heroes include clear anti-heroes from the first act of the story (e.g. Han Solo). Partial badness is often part of good hero design.

I'm DMing a custom Dragonlance campaign for my husband's party, based after the fifth edition published Dragonlance campaign which he completed as a sequel, and then me basing the story from there, partially from the books. And indeed Raistlin's a key variable in my custom second-half story. Super interesting. Similar with Kitiara. What details of Raistlin made him your all-time favorite hero rather than just like, a top-10? I love those types of nuances.

Was introduced to him at a young and influential age. I really want to answer this thoughtfully and have stopped and started several attempts. He helped the weak, attacked a god, his staff of Magius was awesome, he was a mess of conflicts but overall a hero when he chose to abandon his gained power to save his brother. And I know this response does the character no justice. 😂

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In a fun multiple choice game I play with my students, one question is guess my favourite superhero. (The correct answer is Venom)... and a lively debate always ensues about whether Venom is a hero, villain or anti hero. Haha.

Vilains need to exist and have stories as interesting as the heroes’, but it’s the heroes for me without a doubt. Even though I recall some villains’ stories, it’s very low compared to the heroes’.

Tony Soprano and Walter White are both heroes we rooted for until we realized what we were rooting for as they grew more depraved. I tend to remember fiction where there are no heroes or villains per se but empathetic characters with motivations that drive them down a path of moral dilemmas that test my morality as well.

Usually the protagonist. However, there's a thriller novel by Jack Higgins called Solo I first read as a teen and it stuck with me. The reason: Higgins gives you the back story of both protagonist and antagonist equally, they are both sympathetic and flawed and one isn't really the hero and the other isn't a villian, and yet they're headed for a collision because of an error in judgement that one of them doesn't realise the severity of. Absolutely brilliant, stayed with me, and held up on re-read. Another like this is Grandmaster by Warren Murphy and Molly Cochran.

Mr. Robot. Dexter. Two of my favorite antiheroes where they take out the bad guys by committing felonious crimes worth capital punishment (***SPOILER ALERT*** although in Elliot’s defense, he did try to save those ppl in the one building his alter ego originally planned to destroy and wasn’t a true participant in the bigger scheme he was unaware of). I stand with those two who used their power as a necessary evil with good intentions at the end of the day.

Villain: Ursula from ‘89 The Little Mermaid. Not a shred of decency in that character. Preying on the deepest desires of the most vulnerable. Anti-Hero: Popeye from The French Connection. He’s a man on a mission: clean up the streets. It’s not how he does it, but the tone in which he does it in that sets him apart. Very intense, very “Fuck off and die” about it

I think we think of mankind as generally good. Its the "Bad People" that are rare(At least in our minds) So i tend to remember the villain more. Most of the time there trying to top the "evil" that the previous villain characters perpetrated. Seeking shock value is even more sought after these days. Todays PG rating is yesterdays R.

I know this isn’t quite the answer to your question, but the villain that always comes to my mind is GARY OLDMAN. The man is a CHAMELEON and nails the depth of every character: https://image.nostr.build/c38fc91c58c61807b35a524c928fc6ef8bf261fb1773c34980504d2d8d5fb6b3.jpg

Have you seen Nil By Mouth? It was written & directed by Oldman in the late 90’s. I haven't watched it since it was released but damn it was brutal. A great movie but very real, too real in some ways because the fucked up existence of the characters was hard to watch. Ray Winstone stars in it & he's always been a favourite of mine

Long-time theatre actor…villains are the best to play. Hand’s down. Audiences love a well-played villain. There’s an old saying “the nicest actors make the best villains”. Good people LOVE to express their ‘shadow side’ by playing villains. For the record, the greatest villain in film history was Tim Roth in “Rob Roy”. Simple fact, not at all my personal opinion. As an actor who’s played several ‘villains’, I get far, far better community-response from those roles than from protagonist roles. Depending on the script, of course.

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Depends on who the creator makes memorable. In Horror, that often is the villain. Who remembers Freddy’s victims in the Elm Street series? In Fantasy, I don’t remember Conan‘s opponent at all.

Lyn, it's worth also considering the age the viewer/reader was when the said memory became fixed in their mind. I would imagine that there's a general window of ages where memory becomes more permanent than outside of those windows, obviously excluding any traumatic events that may have happened too (Nelson Mandela, Twin Towers etc).

For me, what sticks isn't necessarily whether the character is good or bad, but rather the sheer force of their will. I tend to remember those who are the most radical, the ones who pursue their quest with unwavering determination, no matter what. It's like "nothing stops this train 😜" once they're on their path. - In Dragon Ball Z, it's Vegeta I remember—his relentless pursuit of power, plus all the memes of course. - In Troy, it's Achilles rather than Hector, the unstoppable force driven by destiny. - Gladiator? Maximus, no question—his resolve is legendary. - In Heat, it's Al Pacino's character that dominates my memory. - And in X-Files, it's Mulder, with his obsession for finding his sister, that leaves the deepest impression. Ultimately, it's the unyielding drive of these characters that makes them stand out, more than their moral alignment.

I can't say I lean hero or villain more or less. Beatrix Kiddo - Uma Thurman's character in Kill Bill 2 is by far my most memorable. We even named our cat 'Kiddo'. Javier Bardom's character, Anton Chigurh in No Country For Old Men is another memorable one for me.

It entirely depends upon the quality of the writing. Strong writing leads to memorable characters regardless of them being a hero or villain. We can all agree that GRRM is the GOAT when it comes to proving this point. To be very clear, strong writing doesn’t just mean an interesting idea or concept. ie 90% of Chistopher Nolan’s work. For example, it’s hard to name any characters from Inception because they’re simply uninteresting characters. It’s not the acting. I mean, he has top tier actors: Ellen Page, Leo DeCap, Tom fuckin Hardy, Jospeh Gordon-Levitt, Ken Watanabe, Cillian Murphy, Marion Cotillard, etc. Yet, I can only name maybe two or three of those characters. But the concept is memetic and unforgettable so people love that movie. I think it’s fine. Characters are everything to a story. Villains, heroes, and everything in between. Over a long enough timeline, no one will give a fuck about a high concept if there’s no heart to it (characters). Hell, Tremors has more heart than Inception and I’d rather watch that more than anything Nolan has done. Man, I’m really shitting on Nolan today. Well, the secret’s out; I think he’s overrated! Crucify me. Getting back to your question, I’m typically far more interested in darker characters than lighter ones. I just watched a couple episodes of Teen Titans this morning (who doesn’t like Saturday morning cartoons on a Saturday?) and I love Raven, Robin, and Cyborg the most because of their darker edge. Robin can fall into temptation, ironically, through his diehard dedication to discipline. His conviction to win and be the best at all costs leaves him open to Slade who uses that against him. Raven has so much power she must manage through her stoic practices and emotional management. But she’s only human and even the most stoic person can falter and cause immense pain to themselves and those around them. Cyborg has a bit of a temper and, because he’s literally built with a schematic, he’s easy to read and take advantage of. But his good natured approach to life makes him endearing despite his anger. He’s “heart on his sleeve” personified. Contrast those three with Beastboy and Starfire. There was a single episode where Beastboy was ashamed for eating meat and being a little angry for like a couple scene’s. Otherwise, he’s constantly cracking jokes being the comic relief character. Starfire’s powers literally revolve around how she channels her emotions vs Raven needing to keep her emotions tempered. Darker emotions are more interesting to me because they’re so hidden and suppressed. I love art that explores those. Anyways, I’m done now. I have way too much to say around this topic