Stakeholder republic democracy 

 Minimum wage should be negotiated between unions and employers. 

 I might be anti union and anti minimum wage 


Have to give it a think 

 Minimum wage laws easily get out of control.  If there is a power balance between workers and employers, workers are positioned to negotiate for a just wage.  Minimum wage laws step in when that negotiation process has failed, but that can lead the workers and employers to abdicate their negotiating power to government. 

 This starts punishing the poor real fast lol 

 Good.  

 I disagree with this.

Here in Texas property taxes are used to pay for most everything, but especially in the cities, a lot of people are renters.  So you have urban renter populations voting to raised property taxes on suburban and rural home owners to fund urban public works.

I'm not opposed to public works paid for by taxes, but the people who enjoy the fruits of the tax hike might not be the same people who have to pay the costs.  If you own property, even under a mortgage, you'll feel the property tax and exercise due caution before approving it. 

 Taxation is theft. I'm opposed to all taxes, especially since most of the stuff covered by property taxes I don't want to use or pay for.  

 This is different.  Property tax is a tax on production.  The flow of money in the case of welfare is in completely the opposite direction. 

 Taxing production is idiotic.  It disincentives precisely the thing a society needs to prosper. 

 I disagree. Either have a democracy or don’t but selecting who can vote on what would lead to more bureaucracy and social tension. Doesn’t sound like a recipe for fun imo. 

 I'm not convinced democracy as we have today is the best political system.  You need some way of representing the needs of the citizenry, but democracy is easily captured by interests that are skilled at influencing public opinion. 

 We need something where people are not punished for regular and non-harmful activities.

Considering the gruesome behavior of governments over the history of humanity, democracy broadly certainly seems the least worst, but with obvious space for improvement.

The best governments from a liberty perspective today, is possibly Switzerland in the West or Singapore in the Far East. 

 Doesn’t Singapore have a rather authoritarian vibe going on? I’m only going on what a Malaysian was telling me.. 

 Yes, Singapore is rather authoritarian by Western standards, but they gave low taxes and are very orderly. 

 It’s the trilema all over again… 

 i remeber turning 18 in Geneva, Switzerland and getting to vote for the first time. There was an initiative to regulate whether villa owners could dump their sewers in the closest  river or not. As usual the city got covered in posters to help people make up their mind on what to vote. Some posters were saying "save the water, vote NO" and the other posters were saying "Do not sacrifice the water, vote YES" 

 What was the outcome? 

 i don't remember 🙈 probably villa owners had to connect to the sewers. I want to believe that anyways...

My point is, if the people aren't equiped to read legal jargon, then the loudest voices are governing opinions. Direct democracy is great, and a swiss can vote nearly every sunday on communal issues, cantonal or federal. Beautiful. But it is not the silver bullet that it seems without education. 

 Neither am I… As well as the influencing public opinion, you have politicians that are plainly bought out be major donors. 

 more democracy may be an improvement.  Easier access to initiative and referendum and recall. especially at the local level.   Minnesota Viking's stadium, for example, would probably not have received public funding if had been put up to a public vote...  that is why the politicians manipulated things to avoid such a vote.  

 Taxing anything is immoral.  

 I think some taxes are necessary to fulfill the basic roles of government, such as national defence, but we ought to be very careful about how much taxation is levied, and on what. 

 Nope. 
Pay for services rendered. 

No taxes.  

 I’m not in the US so forgive me for not fully understanding but surely it’s a production tax or a property tax? For example, if you own land on which all that happens is rabbits enjoying themselves, do you pay tax on that? 

 It's literally that.  The state of Texas has no income tax, but any land you own is taxed at a portion of its assessed value each year. 

 People who aren't children shouldn't be allowed to vote on child policy  

 What about freedom from taxes?

Tyranny of the majority is still tyranny, especially when the majority has no comprehension of the interests of the people they are tyrannizing over. 

 All fair enough to me. Still hung up on the allowed bit tho 

 Yeah that's a fair point.  Allowing implies privilege as opposed to inherent right.  Maybe a better way of putting it would be that we should agree as a society that property owners should be the ones to vote on property taxes.