Oddbean new post about login | logout You believe the voting system is illegitimate? There may be certain aspects of our "system" that are not legitimate. (Banking) But that doesn't mean every part of the system is illegitimate.
When you use the word "our" you trying to force me into be a part of it.
So should we not have juries?
This seems irrelevant to my point. I never said we shouldn't have voting of any kind.
But if you vote as part of the jury, you have become part of the penal system, right?
I would agree.
So what should you if you're called?
That's a personal decision. It's easy to not participate in a jury.
Yes, but you would not support anyone taking part in the jury process? You think no one should accept that duty?
I never said anything about whether someone should or should not participate in a system of any kind. I'm not stating whether something is good or bad. If someone participates in a system they participate in legitimizing said system. This note wasn't about good or bad or even my opinion of someone's choices. Duty is also subjective.
No I realise that. I'm just testing whether that statement could ever be generally true and it looks like it can't. The best we could argue would be, if you vote you're taking part in the political process. Because the hypothetical jury doesn't prove that you support the outcome or even the overall process. There's a name for this type of argument but I'm struggling to remember the name. It's a good one though.
I think I see what you're saying, but couldn't you make the same case you made for the jury (technically a part of politics) for a political process (I'm assuming you mean an election)?
I was thinking of the electoral process, yes. It would take a lot of effort to test the whole democratic process. I like to distil arguments into simpler contexts to make sure they work :)
That's why reposted to reword. I tried to go simpler. Thanks for the discussion. My original note wasn't particular to the electoral process.
While the system is legitimate in terms of its ability to affect our lives, it’s illegitimate in a sense because we’re all subjects of involuntary authority. If the world were to reset I think we should strive for voluntarily governments with fairly easy opt in/opt out mechanisms
Being subject to involuntary authority is human/animal nature.
Ehh animal nature, sure. I’d argue humans have the ability to rationalize & id say that sets us apart as it pertains to involuntary authority hierarchies It’s probably a spectrum thing. Over time, I think we should strive for 100% voluntary interactions