Oddbean

> Everybody has a right to life but nobody has the right to use someone else's body without consent. God, or some would say "nature", decided to allow a child to use a woman's body. It is in the nature of being a woman that you may become host for an offspring. That's just the way it is. Just because you don't like it is not justification for murdering your offspring. "Without consent"? Women know they might get pregnant when they engage in sex. Wouldn't engaging in sex voluntarily, without some kind of non-abortive contraception, be tantamount to implicit consent to get pregnant? If it is true that abortion is murder, then we have a society full of women that are murderers, which is sociopathic. That's not good for women, or society! If a woman can do that kind of violence to her own innocent offspring, which should be the most tender of relationships, how can we ever expect to reduce or eliminate the violence of the State, and society in general?

also i don't think any of this implies supporting government anything it's just facts and the Law of God the government is actually part of the problem that this can exist at all, otherwise fathers and mothers would govern their children and make them marry and do the right thing to go forth and multiply

Ah the "Law of God" huh? Which God? Let me guess, the god of Abraham right? Cool, people should definitely obey the supposed words of an invisible unproven deity worshipped thousands of years ago by desert nomads. Religious texts, written by humans thousands of years ago, are infallible and should be obeyed. We should probably respect those who speak on the behalf of said God right? No wonder you support forced birth. After all, it's God's will that women should be punished with pregnancy for sex after Eve's sin of eating the fruit so why should they be allowed to choose not to go through with God's punishment if they have sex? It's God's will that women be subservient to men and be silent, maybe the Muslims have it right in turning their women into silent walking pieces of black cloth. Slavery and rape are a-okay to God, might as well legalize those as well (so long as you make sure to pay your rape victim's father to purchase his property that you tarnished). Let's stone people for wearing mixed cloth, eating shellfish, or for simply loving someone the desert nomads speaking for God didn't approve. Don't forget if you beat your slave within an inch of their life merciful God has instructed you to let them rest a whole 3 days before you put them back to work! You literally make me sick. You do not believe in evidence based reasoning of the real world, you believe vile things and claim the moral high ground when you absolutely do not have it. Ridiculous. Your beliefs are shameful and you should be ashamed.

From your very emotional response, I take it you’ve been involved in an abortion? If so, God loves us regardless of our failings. Even Walter Block’s concept of evictionism states that you can abort a baby but not kill it. If someone is drugged and put in your car. You find them while driving over a bridge. You can’t just kick them out into the river. You need to do your best to find them a safe location. That’s not only just but simply being a decent human. Yes, it causes extreme inconvenience at times. https://reason.com/podcast/2019/12/20/libertarianism-and-abortion-a-debate/ Libertarians for life: https://l4l.org/

No, just that I'm tired of religious views being used as justification to enforce harmful policies on other people. My experience with abortion is irrelevant but even so you are incorrect. People I know have been involved in the abortions of people they know, but I myself have not been. Making abortion illegal factually does more harm than good. Forcing children to be born to parents who don't want them greatly increases their likelihood of abuse and neglect by said parents. It increases the burden on the foster care system, it increases homeless children and parents due to a lack of sufficient resources, it increases child sex trafficking, it increases death among women who die in childbirth that would've survived an abortion of high risk pregnancies, it increases the risk that victims of natural miscarriages, or victims of miscarriages caused by domestic abuse (like my own mother who suffered many miscarriages as a result of said abuse from my father), will be prosecuted by the legal system. It just makes society worse. If pro-life people would align with pro-choice people in their efforts to expand safe sex education and access to contraceptives, than unwanted pregnancies and abortions would plummet. Instead many anti-abortion people also advocate for abstinence only education and against contraceptives which is completely ineffective at preventing teen sex and pregnancies and causes them to increase not decrease.