My man, I started this whole discussion. I see the bad incentives from free relays as a massive problem. But there are a few relays making money now. So, somebody else found the answer to the why that you are looking for and is making it work. If you need the community to figure out how to make your company work, your company is worthless.
That being said, I have been helping several relays getting paid with specs for one-click payments and renewals on demand. So, there are people trying to help if you are interested.
I’m not sure why are you referring to me as I’m company even though I’ve mentioned that I was involved in development. I never had any plans to earn money by operating a relay. I was trying to create a relay that others would operate and earn money on it (because this is the only sustainable way to operate a real relay long term IMO). But I’ve found zero demand for that.
So I was right that you don’t think the lack of incentives for operators is a real problem and you are also sure that free market will decide, so nothing changed in a year looks like, sigh
I really hope to be wrong and to see some day that someone decided to create an enterprise grade relay without thinking about any incentives for operators and it actually played well and they’ve got more than they could dream about :)
But right now I can only see declining number of relays and all of the “paid” relays posting post mortems and deciding to shutdown unfortunately
Virtually everyone I know is demanding an enterprise-grade relay software to run because they already know how to make money with it. I don't think that is a problem. They just don't have any option to use at the moment. So, maybe things have changed since you last talked to potential clients of your software.
I would really appreciate those people to write at least short and brief articles on how they are going to make money with it, I don’t think this is such a big secret in an open source ecosystem, and it would definitely help spark interest in developers
I agree, but I don't think they will. Yeah, the ecosystem is open source, but companies are here to compete, not to teach their way of winning to others. It's a big chicken and egg problem.
I wish those people all the best but tbh I don’t believe they either exist or have some real vision
Even if they are real and have such a strong vision they can only keep it in secret… they can’t find a $10k investment/credit to hire a dev? Sounds unreal, sorry, would love to be wrong here :)
Some of them are already building their own relay systems. But that will be private code most likely. My original post was to see if anyone wants to build it in the open with funds from Opensats (which can be much more than 10k).
What do the relay developers you know consider to be missing from existing implementations to make the enterprise grade? If the only thing missing is a proverbial "throat to choke" when something breaks, I might have an idea for a business model 😅
I could create enterprise relay software easily in python or spring boot. But I already failed to create notable income from my lightning dev. There's not enough money in these volunteer parties to compete with real dev income.
Yo.
A Nostr marketplace indexer [nip-15] relay will optionally index marketplaces, along with stalls and products (see: diagon alley model). Commissions paid upwards.
Nostr telemedicine app (on enterprise relay). Document management (bloods, diagnostic imagery) is the main challenge. Subscription model.
Need devs. Can pay in corn.
Hey, thanks for that! But I’m not interested right now. Did you try asking here https://t.me/nostr_protocol ? There may be some nostr devs who might be interested
Haven't hit the telegram group yet - thanks for the link. Already talking to one dev team, but going to need more... particularly app devs.
I have no doubt that it'll be possible to create value / incentives. I think about this problem a lot. Some larger players will have a better chance of trailblazing quickly.
If seems logical to me that for-profit organisations (probably startups) will fund relay devs out of imperative, as people start to view and use nostr for more valuable use cases.
There are lots of unsolved problems but there is thr biggest fundamental issue I personally can’t find any solution to and the community simply ignores it. Consider pre requisits
1. You consider nostr to become a social network in modern definition of the term i.e allowing hundreds of millions of ppl around the globe to communicate and discover
2. You do not expect every 3rd nostr user to selfhost their relay on a $5/mo and this to somehow magically allow previous thesis
3. You do not expect 100% of the users to pay $10/mo for the less features any existing “free” social network provides
With this in mind, the fundamental problem is the following:
The only way to provide customers with okish services requires you to consolidate client and server and at this point you become web2.0 company with incentives to lock your users inside of your ecosystem.
If you believe in “free market” you have to understand web2.0 companies tried to break this circle for 30 years without luck. So the problem nostr faces right now is much challenging than implementing enterprise relay or even figuring out this hopium outbox model. But its easier to ignore hard challenges
I think we're quickly going to move toward a mesh of FOSS mobile devices that relay and use I2P / Reticulum or some such. I think marketplaces is the killer Nostr app; not twitteresque clique circlejerk.
In my definition you have a different assumption on the first item - I don’t believe in the foreseeable future there will be a mesh of foss mobile devices that will be used as a social network in todays terms i.e hundreds of millions of users. I could believe this could be true for tens of thousands though. In this case nostr will be completely different product compared to how I see it now and how others see it now.
If you believe this network to onboard hundreds of millions of users, I would be cery gld to appear wrong
If the raison d'etre of such an organisation (DAO or otherwise) is Freedom, then it'll just manifest in whatever way is conducive to more freedom. Hopefully we're going to get a big dose of Libertarianism from the US in the coming months, so it'll be a good time to experiment with different value propositions.
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