Other than that, SimpleX Chat has "relays" to store messages just like Nostr does. If you are not choosing your own relays to use SimpleX, it's not that different from Signal, where everything routes through the company's servers.
And if you choose a new relay, make sure they are not tracking you. They can see a lot of metadata.
This was one of the reasons that led me to push for a better standard for Nostr GiftWrapped DMs that minimizes (but doesnt completely solve) the power your relays have over you.
The metadata is indeed limited since a user does not have a unique global permanent identifier. At most they can track metadata within a single chat room but iirc they even have mitigations for that:
https://github.com/simplex-chat/simplexmq/blob/master/protocol/overview-tjr.md#threat-model
They don't need an identifier, they have both user's IPs/session IDs and channel IDs available. Date/time of messages is also precise. Connecting into multiple friends with the same IP reveals more about you. If the server decides to track (which a court order might require them to) the metadata is probably useful.
The beauty of the GiftWrap design is that people can setup their own Inbox relays at will. The package only arrives in the receipient's server, not in the sender's if the person doesnt want to (save a copy locally only). That with random date/times makes it harder for relays to track.
Then of course, clients can always use a separate Tor circuit to make sure relays don't receive anything but the message in each connection.
How is it different from setting up your own SMP receiving relay?
Correct me if I am wrong but the SMP contains both user messages. In Nostr each user relay has the peer user messages. Relay can't count the full conversation.
Had to read the above a few times as I'm not very technical. Are you suggesting nostr will be able to provide better privacy compared to SimpleX? How can Nostr hide the metadata? And last question, is something like 0xChat potentially the way?
Yep, we hope to do better than SimpleX. The implementation 0xChat and Amethyst have is the same and already this new model :)
0xChat looks pretty awesome on the UI level too, first iOS app that looks sincerely made since Damus. No pushy onboarding, lean settings, and finally someone went with a semitransparent menu bar again.
Yep, they are awesome. I still need to integrate their voice and video calls with Amethyst. But DMs and group chats already work quite well.
Brilliant, is there anywhere I can find this explained? Thank you
Signal almost certainly has back door keys, let’s be honest
But aren’t the relays spread across random participants, even some who run servers like Start9’s instead of a centralized company server like Signal uses?
https://github.com/nostr-protocol/nips/blob/fd914c600fd590e6188534cd7555116da7855503/59.md
If the relay can't identify the sender how can the relay block senders to protect itself from spam.
Encrypted spam only affects the receiver, who can easily mark as spam just like any other DM.
it also clutters the server (relay). disk space is a scarce resource as much as attention is.
You can have a deal with your users to delete GiftWraps after some time to declutter. But that is between the replay operator and the user. The same clutter can happen with DMs. So this is not an issue of the new method.
Nostr right now is a small close-knit community like early 90's Usenet. We need to be prepared for an eternal September.
Relay monoliths that we have today will never scale to where we are going. None of today's architecture will survive.
I don't think spam would know how to find you? Even a friend needs a unique invite to connect with you. They have no way of finding you, or knowing who/where you are on SimpleX.
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