I hope never. I would like at least one self custodial LN mobile wallet and I think splicing with Phoenix is a good way to solve the liquidity /channel management issue for those willing to pay fees for the user experience  

 Seems like the future.  Is there a future for the plen node runner or the sun is setting in your opinion ? 🤙 

 Pleb node runner* 

 if you have channels established that you use regularly enough to justify the cost + capital lockup, it’s probably fine 😆 

 That is the right answer and i cant say if i know the answer for myself 😅 

 the other option is more in the direction of greenlight, where your keys control some node in the cloud that's hosted and maintained by someone capable  

 Depends on where fees go in the next few months… 

 hopefully never, Phoenix is a great option for LN 

 for the record, a “federation backed ledger” is a setup where a small group (3-7 for fedimints iiuc, 15+ for liquid) hold a multisig address 

bitcoin is deposited into that address, in return you get a “permission less” account object (ecash/a liquid utxo) that corresponds to the deposit you made

the multisig group runs a redemption gateway that you can claim L1 utxos in exchange for the account object you hold; generally third parties also run swap services where you can exchange your account object for an LN payment (made to a node you or someone else runs) 

 hm might be limited to 15 w/ liquid still, i might be misremembering how dynafed works 

 iiuc, liquid is mainly limited to 11-out-of-15 because of the onchain script size limit, taproot fixes this. 

 What’s the recovery process for fedimint funds? iiuc the recovery “key” changes with every spend 

I wonder if there’s a way to cloud backup that ever changing key with 12 words encryption that keeps the arrangement between user and mint anonymous and private

I’m sure @calle 👁️⚡👁️ knows the answer to this 

 Uhmmm... Who's voting several times??
😏😁🫂

https://image.nostr.build/f31505907618d2ca21f8c5f6035f2f64b0499fee8f556c6647a8e43b0cbb283a.jpg#m=image%2Fjpeg&dim=1080x381&blurhash=Q8D9YXsk00D*9FRh%252kY5R00tR-ps9s%2BtRR%2BD%25t701_4%2508_t7R.WCxZ%252&x=aafbe0d222c2b79755b4962e2f189eec0871eae2fbe1f59bf47b551630c5cf4f 

 is this from liking people’s responses?? 

 Tbh, I'm not sure.

Maybe @Vitor Pamplona can explain how #Amethyst is counting likes.

🫂 

 The tradeoff with end users is mainly cost. Lots of people have spent a lot of money on hardware wallets. People will still be willing to spend money on self sovereign lightning channels. 

 Fedimints need a lot more time in the wild. 

Mobile LN wallets are good for the time being. 

 they’re gonna get it! im very excited about ecash tbh 🙈 

 Isn't Breez going with greenlight? Phoenix always do their own stack I doubt they will be using fedimint.