Oddbean

is there a way for lightning to be self-custodial, without the inbound liquidity hassle, easily settled on the base layer, affordable on the long term and without the need to open and close channels just to spend some online? #Bitcoin

Oh, well, those addresses aren't done by wallets. They are done with a Linux server running lnurlp software. When you see wallets like Zeus or Alby offering those addresses, they are a custodial service that forwards the Bitcoin to you after they receive it. If you just want an simple lightning address, go to lnwallet.app and you can create an address with a single click. When you receive zaps ⚡, just forward them to your Phoenix wallet. It includes a NWC connection so you can link it to your nostr client to send zaps. You can also register a nostr NIP-05 address at onlynostr.club and point it at the lightning address you created in the previous step. That's what I do. That's how I have that same vanity address as my lightning address as well.

I really don’t care about the address format but it was the format that primal was asking me for. I ended up using primal wallet because it was easy to set up. But now i try to send from primal wallet to phoenix and still the format of the phoenix address is not accepted. Any ideas why?

Cashu, and even that's not truly self-custodial. Scalable Bitcoin solutions are all shitty in their own way, with the obvious solution in the community's face having a dogmatic refusal to be acknowledged and/or serious consideration.

And who's invoice do they serve? It's not the users, it's theirs. They sure as hell can spend or keep that. If the Bitcoin isn't in your channel, it's not your Bitcoin. They 'hold' the Bitcoin until their users collect it. What do you think hold means? The only way anyone can have a non-custodial lightning address, is by owning the domain that serves the address. If you're using someone else's domain, they can take control and keep any Bitcoin sent to the address. And there's nothing you can do to stop that. You just have to trust the domain owner.

There is some trust involved that we mitigate with Nostr events but it sounds like you don’t know how hold invoices work. Read more on how it all works here: https://github.com/supertestnet/zaplocker?tab=readme-ov-file#four-problems-zaplocker-solves

Bloody hell, stop this bullshit already. Users uploads payment hashes to zaplocker. Zaplocker decides to rug-pull and replaced the user payment hashes with their own payment hashes. Users Bitcoin is gone. When a user gives their payment hash to a third party and has to trust that third party won't rug-pull them, that's custodial. Being the custodian of payment hashes is still a custodial service. Just be honest and tell your users that using your address service requires a certain amount of trust in your company. The more you keep saying you're lightning address service doesn't rely on trust and is non-custodial, the more you sound like scammers setting up a rug-pull.

There are mitigations built into this system using Nostr. Users submit signatures of each hash with their Nostr key and wallets can be configured to verify them. We’ve been very forthcoming with the tradeoffs of all our services, and to say that we haven’t is disingenuous.

Bloody hell, you're really laying on the bullshit today. This conversation started when you said... > Our service is not custodial. You're the one that claimed your service was not custodial. I called you out for this bullshit claim. And now your trying to play the victim by insinuating that made I've made false claims about you. You inserted yourself into a conversation to advertise your service by making a false claim that your service was not custodial. And now, you've finally admitted that your original claim was indeed a lie and your service is custodial and you can indeed rob people of their Bitcoin. I never told any lies, you did. Everything I've said in this conversation is the truth. You've done nothing but try and hide the fact that people have to trust you with their Bitcoin if they use your service. Which is the exactly the same risk everyone takes if they are using a lightning address service that they don't personally own themselves. You're no different than anyone else providing this service, except that you lie and say yours is not custodial.

What's your name? What's your company address and phone number? If you won't even say who you are, why should people trust you? You're different? You're anonymous. Why should anyone trust you, What makes you any more trustworthy than every other scammer that said 'trust me bro'? So, you admit that you can choose to stop processing payments and keep them yourself? And people should just trust a bunch of anonymous nobody's because you're different? I'll say it again and I dare you or anyone to say I'm wrong. The only way to have a non-custodial lightning address is to own the domain name and run your own lnurlp server. Anyone that says anything different is lying and should not be trusted. Anyone that says their lightning address service is non-custodial is a liar.

LOL we are not anonymous. You can look up who we are on our website, GitHub, social media, various other places where we’ve made public appearances. This whole thread you’ve just revealed you’ve done zero research on us or our offerings and with each post you continue to move the goalposts. We’ve already spent too much time engaging with you. Best of luck on your journey.

You can bugger off with your bullshit too. They control the domain name. They control where the payment goes. They can choose to forward the payment to you, or they can keep the Bitcoin themselves. Users have to trust that they won't decide to rug-pull them, which they can do whenever they want by charging the way they process payments. Am I wrong? Can they change the way they process payments and keep any Bitcoin they receive whenever they want? Go on, answer that question. I want you to say here that it is impossible for Zeus to change the way they process payments and keep people's Bitcoin.

Not going to answer my question? How about you stop giving people false assurance that they don't have to trust a bunch of anonymous nobody's. Who's embarrassing themselves? Why don't you put your money where your mouth is and personally guarantee people's funds then if you're so confident that it's impossible for Zeus to keep people's payments? Will you do that? I bet you don't. Because you know damn well that Zeus can change the way they process payments at any time and keep people's Bitcoin. But you seem reluctant to say that, but you're happy to insult me for telling the truth.