Oddbean

Remember I mention bout this before? @Jerry nostr:nevent1qqsd9l9gfy6udcu0eugzc2hw2hnsg0q32g8dkgnkxc4mjslh2umly9qppamhxue69uhkummnw3ezumt0d5pzpsnz9jgkmxusuy9grv46v7cehh7966lzdsjh2mglnyxn0pwwzdsmqvzqqqqqqyyum68u nostr:nevent1qqsd9l9gfy6udcu0eugzc2hw2hnsg0q32g8dkgnkxc4mjslh2umly9qppamhxue69uhkummnw3ezumt0d5pzpsnz9jgkmxusuy9grv46v7cehh7966lzdsjh2mglnyxn0pwwzdsmqvzqqqqqqyyum68u nostr:nevent1qqsd9l9gfy6udcu0eugzc2hw2hnsg0q32g8dkgnkxc4mjslh2umly9qppamhxue69uhkummnw3ezumt0d5pzpsnz9jgkmxusuy9grv46v7cehh7966lzdsjh2mglnyxn0pwwzdsmqvzqqqqqqyyum68u

I wouldn’t be surprised if they eventually make it illegal for retail investors to self-custody bitcoin and make it so the average user has no choice but to buy ETFs and other KYC’d Bitcoin derivative products.

Exactly. The same thing happened to gold etf. We will create an efficient onboarding process to buy gold through an ETF. They couldn’t have citizen taken self custody of their wealth because the banks need that wealth to fund wars. Same thing will happen with BTC ETF. New money from younger generations will pour into BTC ETF. Because those banks need that money.

Lets brainstorm a bit, what could we do to fuck up the KYC institutions? If this happens the miners would not benefit from transaction fees anymore since the majority of the bitcoin is stuck with KYC custodians?

Think of the ramifications of this. An open ledger, that no one can see? 🧐 I know this seems like the solution, but back up a layer - it's the open ledger that is part of making Bitcoin, #Bitcoin. The solution is vote for Bitcoin candidates and let's get some rulings on how owning Bitcoin in self custody is a constitutional right. We also need to eliminate KYC laws. Of course if people break the law, and it's proven, then their finances are open season. Until then it's NONE of the Governments business.

Nonsense. Look over at monero. The centralized exchanges won't touch it. The only way to get it is through non-kyc methods. https://kycnot.me/ And you are over here asking for permission. Please...

You don't need laws or rulings. Bitcoin was made permissionless specifically so that *you don't have to beg politicians*!!! If you want to play the political game, vote and ask permission, you could already do that before and without Bitcoin. Also: nevent1qqsq0wvj296nng95kwpw7p9trkt7uqvw97vgzqjal86tmrj46da2ujgpz4mhxue69uhhyetvv9ujuerpd46hxtnfduhsyg90wsx3nzathrrmstg2guvwkd2tk0m2lx5cvwdct499eufhrj46s5psgqqqqqqs3jmj9t

I get where you are coming from. And the video, "...what happened to this community..." I understand. I don't disagree with you at all that you don't need laws or rules but 'society' will be diverse - some will want sidewalks where they live, others bike trails. There will always be rules and laws, even with Bitcoin. And there will be representatives that are elected that help provide some of this - either privately or publicly. It's how you build community, business, technology. As #Bitcoin grows I'm sure some will be disappointed where it goes - as it expands to the world, and more widespread views. What we can ALL rely on is the base layer - by running our OWN NODE! And until we are living on the Bitcoin Standard, we will need to deal with politicians. Even more of an issue in 3rd world where dictators are still trying to control everything (in many cases funded by US/IMF sadly). So I'm not begging Politicians - but I'm still going to vote for those that have a belief in 'permissionless' money and abandoning KYC.

I didn't even intend that as a broad libertarian/anarchist statement. I'm only saying it makes no sense to ask someone else permission for a permissionless money. If one is only going to make approved transaction there is no reason to use Bitcoin for that, just use fiat. If you are going to follow all the rules anyway, Bitcoin is much worse to use than fiat. The Bitcoin Standard wont ever be a thing on white markets. Governments wont sit idly by and let it usurp fiat currency. They will continue to increase regulatory burden on their markets until artificial cost to use or hold Bitcoin is too burdensome. Or simply make transactions require "approved regulated custodians". White market use of Bitcoin will eventually be completely captured. You can see the direction were heading compared to even five years ago. It's either permissionless or it's not. And if it is permissionless it is not compatible with white market transactions by definition.

I guess I don't believe market use of #Bitcoin use will be completely captured. That's the key statement. I have faith people will want to be free from the state - at some point (hard to see currently).

I don't think Bitcoin itself will be captured. I'm saying any Bitcoin use *on white markets* will be captured. I have faith that there will be a significant portion who want to be free, and that portion may even grow, and the tools will be there for them to use, but I'm not sure I have that same faith for people in general...

We had 5 kids, I'm 61. One thing I see universally is the "Public" (I would say Government controlled) education system does NOT teach kids to think/learn. The system teaches them to be process followers with limited knowledge and limited ability to derive their own understanding (think). This has to be intentional IMO. We put our kids in Montessori school -and I was hell bent on teaching them how to think first. We NEVER did for our kids what they can do for themselves (hard as a parent). They are all very successful - there might be one of the 5 not financially independent in their mid 30s (some/alot of that has to do with buying a lot of Bitcoin). All said because my 'faith" in people comes from the fact people can learn to think. They can read. They can dream. They can work. We just can't force them, it has to be taught - and we need more teachers. We need more choice in schools. And obviously we need more understanding #Bitcoin which is the ultimate in free thinking. I believe we can, and will get there but it's likely the current older generations will not do so well. Mostly.

We need to vote for Bitcoin candidates - and develop laws that protect Bitcoin, and do away with KYC laws. Ask all your elected officials about KYC - what is their stance? The Government has no businesses in personal finance unless someone breaks the law. Until then there is coinjoin and Hodl Hodl. https://hodlhodl.com/

Converting over to liquid only gives you "forward privacy", i.e. it hides where and how much you spend. It can't hide the fact that you bought it and when. It can't take your name off "The List". And when you convert from one to the other you gotta pay the man

KYC'd Bitcoin isn't KYC'd anymore once we start trading in Bitcoin, to and from our own wallets. This is a bandaid on a cracking dam. And on the other side of that dam is a whole lot of freedom. Bitcoin is nothing less than the complete destruction of the old system, through obsolescence. Leaders of finance have controlled the world for centuries, possibly thousands of years. They're the cause of every war, including both world wars. The Rothschilds are the reason Israel exists. Mankind is dawning on a new age of peace and prosperity, and governments that serve us, if only we can prevent the old regimes from blowing up the world for like 5 more minutes. But expect turbulence.

When has The State not used this playbook? It's standard operational procedure Authoritaians always try to hijack bottom up movements, they let us do all the work, and they will try to take it from us when it's ready Then they will try to take all the credit