Oddbean

Defrauding workers of their wages is a sin that cries out to heaven for vengeance. I don't blame the dock workers for doing what they need to do to provide for themselves and their families. nostr:nevent1qqsgk5vkhr8yn9yf0z6f49p7mkdcreptfp9lhhqy7vcr4dfegyjcyggpz4mhxue69uhhyetvv9ujuerpd46hxtnfduhsyg9gnnynztcj6gfalmsnz4czcv4l0zrs6xwqm8ms6zqzny3antvwjupsgqqqqqqs5zf2y0

Union Strikes My take on unions is that they should be temporary. Solve the problem, then dissolve the union (until next time). Otherwise, the union just becomes another centralized heirarchy of power that is hell-bent on exploiting everyone. On the topic of strikes: I see them as fear based soft-terrorism. If someone disrespects you (deliberately doesn't deliver what was promised), LEAVE THEM FOREVER! Get them out of your reality. But ... but ... but ... ... ... I don't care what someone's excuse is to strike, they are too afraid that they are incapable of anything other than sucking corporate cock. They are also afraid that God, ancestors, etc will not support their move to power and independence, so they submit to some asshole instead. It doesn't get much wimpier than that. Can you imagine saying, "Hey disrespectful person, let me coherce you away from your own freedom so I that I can be a slave with more comfortable shackles!"? JUST LEAVE. IT WILL TEACH THE GREEDY JERKS A LESSON! What will be corporate jerkwad's move? Hire unskilled labor? They will suffer while the skilled worker expands their horizons, and obtains a greater understanding of self worth. Instead of begging, they could start walking with confidence of themselves, the divinity within, and the wisdom from beyond. nostr:nevent1qqsdfhv8k3cpzervu0glm76zygxgu3ww4hyfq8ndvsfy99xlz9t56cqpz4mhxue69uhhyetvv9ujuerpd46hxtnfduhsygrszgsjsfemmsr6lxl8wf06t39uplq5dpntasudgsmqm39udnqchypsgqqqqqqsuden7v

Your theory is sensible when the corporations are competing with each other for the labor. As a laborer. Your skills are honed for a particular industry. In the case of the longshoreman, the ports do not compete for their labor. In fact, the ports formed their own alliance, the US maritime alliance, so instead of competing for labor they could negotiate with labor as a collective. The fault lies on both sides.

Yes, and it's a byproduct of the state's greed - if the state didn't exist, would there be less corruption and greed at the industry / association level? I believe there would be. Privatizing industrial & professional associations and unions, certifications, etc., fixes this.

Give me a break. Workers have a right to address their employer over grievances but considering how many people are going to be negatively impacted by their antics with this, THEY are the ones committing the sin. When you have a responsibility or an impact on other people's lives and livelihood, acting irresponsibly is the sinful act, not the person calling them on it. Find another way to fix your problems instead of negatively impacting billions of people who are completely unrelated to you or your grievances.

And what are they to do when they have tried other means of redress unsuccessfully? Our country was founded on a rebellion, we ought to understand those who resort to protest when they believe their voices are not being heard.

Find another job instead of costing others their jobs, ruining the lives of millions of innocent peoole, and preventing the arrival aid for desperate people in a disaster zone. No matter how you frame this, it's unadulterated selfishness and I hope everyone involved with this loses their job.

I feel like were fighting each other and forgetting that inflation, and the fed is the real reason we are always arguing about money. Corruption is a problem everywhere. So because I rely on these dock workers for supply chain, I have the entitlement to tell them what's acceptable for them and their families? I am however, entitled to have an opinion on how absurd some of the requests are. While I don't think all problems in the world should be solved with technology, I believe there is a maximization function to be applied. Many inputs are often ignored (due to (often progressive) biases when calculation impact and quality of life. Everyone loves progressive democracy until they're the minority.

We all know the inflation is just an excuse, because it's literally a creation of fractional reserve banking and fiat currency. Corporations do it all the time. They get around price gouging because they can hide behind "inflation", which is a load of BS. Yes, inflation exists in our current system but conniving companies and individuals take advantage of that to screw everyone else over. It's the most un-American thing I can possibly think of. Yes, we have a right to call them on their selfishness. They, like leaders and anyone in infrastructure, have a responsibility to the entire country. They have a responsibility and a direct impact. If they don't want people to call them out for being selfish, greedy individuals, then they have two choices: stop trying to extort the entire country for a freaking 77% wage increase (from their already sizable current wage), or find another job. They are not the victims. Not even remotely close. They "postponed" the strike until next January because they realized the sheer amount of people that would despise their guts for their actions.

IMO if they hated their pay rate so much they should have qust quit and go find another job where the wages are better, i bet some did tho, but you won't hear about that because it's not political ammunition having a shortage of workers in the industry would have forced the wage prices to be adjusted upwards anyway... if it actually was needed and that also brings up the point that everyone's wage slides down against inflation anyway, and this is by design for both the banks and for political ends (maintaining high wages for the incumbency) and the strikes are pretty much the incumbency

I have to go to sleep, will follow up in the am. I do feel like a point I want to argue is this. I don't think any American citizen (in private sector) has any duty to work for any other citizen. I understand unions have "industrialized" labor for a lack of a better phrase. I think I see what your arguing. I just can't get where "your job is important to me" therefor I'm demanding you stop whining. I have no obligation to work for you. People are allowed to be selfish in a free country. Full stop. Who am I do judge what's "selfish". I just want that argument off the table. I'm not trying to put words in your mouth, I'm speaking out loud here.

I would agree with you on about 85% of jobs, but there are jobs that have a heavy impact on other people. If these individuals want to take a job in that field, they should likewise have to take up the responsibility that position has. Their jobs aren't just important to ME, they're important to everyone in the country. Not only would their strike have decimated our already tattered economy, it would have prevented much-needed aid from arriving to the hurricane victims, and it'd sink so many families who are struggling to pay for groceries... all for them to receive a 77% pay increase from, as I said, their already considerable wages. Combining the lack of need for that high of a wage increase, and the fact that their job directly and severely impacts everyone else in the country, I cannot and will not be sympathetic to them in this case. Period.

the protesting is a dumb way to get a better income plenty of higher paid physical labor based jobs out there at different times, just, and this is the thing i think you are not keeping in mind about how this situation emerges in the first place: by constantly debasing the money, the banks and government get extra rent out of us, but they also disincentivise accumulating capital by the workers when they don't have any savings, they can't make a career transition or weather a time of no work, pile on top of that car, credit card and mortgage repayments, all of which are organised by the bank, who is complicit and benefiting from the debasement of the currency the entire edifice of labor unions is exactly a manufactured system to respond inappropriately to the situation created by the constantly debased money and the culture of credit addiction that is beneficial to the interests of lenders so, what does the dock worker do? if they can't save, they can't change jobs, so they go along with the union action this has been an achilles heel in the economy and you are voicing the exact reason why they even have so much power - transportation is the heart of commerce

The best part is that if we had more robust domestic production and shipping, we wouldn't have to worry too much about these kind of things, but unfortunately we are way too reliant on external countries for virtually everything.

Sorry, but no. 1) They didn't care about the timing. The guy organizing this strike is loud and proud about it. Literally bragging about crippling our economy and causing people to lose their jobs. He's a wannabe mob boss scumbag, nothing more. 2) It definitely is. They're making a very, VERY good wage as it is and they want a 77% price increase? How about a big, fat N-O. What makes them higher than their country that they get to make bank while everyone else is struggling to buy groceries? And as for automation, this bullcrap is only going to cost them in the long run. People weren't thinking about automation too much before this. Now, countless people are calling for it because these selfish jackwagons want more money at the expense of the entire freaking country. Heck, I'm not a fan of AI, nor do I like the idea of getting rid of human jobs, but after this? Nah, fully automate the ports and bring our industries back to our shores. Solves the problem overnight while simultaneously telling these whackos to get bent. 3) We're a first world country. The way you fall to third world status is by pretending as if "first world problems" aren't important to, well, a first world country. Moreover, alongside these "first world problems", we see all sorts of crucial things as well. Food, necessities, AID FOR PEOPLE SUFFERING FROM A DEVASTATING HURRICANE. Sorry for the caps, I'm just beyond ticked off at these idiots and while I'm not trying to make this personal with you, I just can't really respect the hustle of defending these morons. Unless the issue is resolved VERY quickly, millions upon millions of innocent people will be negatively impacted, and the economy will grow even worse than it already is (and it's BAD; when people can barely afford to eat, that's not a good sign). All so these -- and I'm struggling not to cuss -- morons can play their little mafia LARP for a few weeks and hope for their 77% wage increase at the expense of the rest of America. I hope they lose their jobs to the automation that they're using as an excuse to extort the country. It'd serve them right and I will laugh myself to death when it happens, laying in my casket with a grin on my face. No mercy for self-centered people who demand prosperity at the cost of the rest of their country in the midst of an economic and humanitarian aid crisis. None at all.

How many of your criticisms also apply at least as well to the megacorporations the dockworkers work under? What's needed is a right to sue both union and corporation as a class action for harm done. This won't prevent strikes, but would greatly shorten them without prejudicing either party's negotiating position.

Hey, I'm not at all siding with the megacorps. I think it's absurd how all of our infrastructure is reliant on government-backed (or government-friendly) megacorps sourcing from other countries. I just don't think that this strike is even remotely justified. Agreed on the class action, though.