Oddbean new post about login | logout @HODL is such a capitalist cuck. You would have a much more intelligent convo with a Teddy Ruxpin. Most Bitcoin people like thinking they are the “pioneers” but are the true gatekeepers of nothing. @petermccormack barely has good interviews other than the great guests he has. Danny does more of the “thinking “. Peter mostly talks about his “accomplishments “ which yield him profits, as he refers to them like philanthropy. Your true discussions come from @LynAlden and @Jeff Booth who, not confirmed, care about what I believe to be Satoshi initial reason for Bitcoin. FreedomMoney. Level playing field. I thought this platform would be different, so far, it’s not. A bunch are of Elon musks running around under pseudonyms and giving out awards to themselves. Please, for the love of humanity keep your sats, not needed here. But I do beg you, if you know who Teddy Ruxpin is, stand up for what bitcoin was created for. If you don’t, these cucks of capitalism will profit in the name of philanthropy…while Satoshi shakes his head in disgust. #bitcoin #proofofwork #capitalism #philosophy Ps @Natalie you conduct your interviews in a way that is more objective. Unlike @petermccormack who is a “look at me please, mate”
Yawn 🥱
Very well put.
I love capitalism btw. Always have. Always will. I’m 100% pro capitalism.
I know. That’s why I used you as one of the poster children.
What’re you a commie?
Absolutely not, but that is a very typical response.
Ok then what’s the alternative system you’re proposing? (Other than capitalism or communism)
I certainly don’t have all the answers but capitalism obviously isn’t and has not been working.
Corporatism ≠ Capitalism
Capitalism aka freedom to transact without interference from a third Party (government) is the absolute best system
Unfortunately this is the lie we have been told by…capitalists. It has never been free from “government “, capitalism is the government.
Corporatism is government
Yes and capitalism is corporatism.
You should probably learn about what you are talking about. If you don't know the difference in corporatism and capitalism you aren't educated on this topic.
If you can tell me the difference, I am open to learning from you.
Corporatism is the state organizing society into corporations subordinate to the state Capitalism is free market not controlled by the state.
We agree very little but we do agree on some aspects. My questions to you would be: When has capitalism not had interference by the State? Or, when has capitalism not used the State for interference?
So because government has always been shitty you blame capitalism?
The State and Capitalism for all of recorded history has been shitty for the majority…yet you blame one? Do you also blame all religion for the crimes of “god(s)”?
Capitalism being turned into corporatism is the fault of the state. You are blaming capitalism for the states actions.
I think you are blaming anything but capitalism for the oppression of the working class.
I think you are a commie who doesn't want to admit you are a commie
lol, well I don’t really attached myself to anything but if i were, it would be anarchist. I do appreciate you name calling instead of addressing my questions.
I'm an anarchist, I'm not name calling by saying you are a commie, commie is just short communist. You sound like a communist.
Very well, I asked you what in particular makes me sound like a communist?
Talking about oppression of the working class and blaming capitalism for it.
Please direct me to the parties to blame for the oppression of the working class? I will take current news or historical references.
The State
If you were actually an anarchist you would understand this
Why do you blame the State?
You clearly aren't an anarchist lol
Gate Keep much? I don’t believe in ruling over any one, personally or by permission. What’s not anarchist about that? No kings, no rulers.
I'm not arguing with you all night dude, believe what you want, capitalism is p2p transactions permissionless. Not the state setting restrictions on what you can and can't buy and at what price points. That's the last gonna say.
If it makes you feel better, I can argue the capitalist, communist, socialists, and monarchy if you like.
You can do whatever you wish to do, I'm just saying you blaming capitalism for the states actions is odd.
Sell your bitcoin
I was willing to have an exchange with you despite you calling me a cuck, but it seems like you don’t have anything to say.
How bout we try “proof of work” or just pay for what people produce? For profits companies are unsustainable and not fair. In order to have “profits”, you must steal from the laborer.
So you’re essentially saying you don’t believe in economic surplus?
Profit is the only reason people with savings forego present consumption in order to take a risk by accumulating capital with the hopes of providing higher valued goods and services that will in turn allow them to consume more in the future. Capitalism is what happens when property rights are respected. Or how Said likes to put it, it’s what happens you leave people alone
I respect that you responded but you did not answer “what is the definition of profits”. You gave me your opinion and a flawed but valid response to you.
Profit is what’s left over after one covers the expenses for everything that is needed to produce a good or service. In other words the signal that what one is doing is valued by the market and sustainable. A business that cannot produce a profit will soon be parted from its capital. My response was not flawed. It is exactly what happens when property rights are respected. We know that because we can see how humans act. We are not talking quantum mechanics here
I run a business and have run a business that is based on no profits. It has been running for almost a decade and all the producers produce more and take home more every year. So maybe you can understand why I believe your understanding of capitalism and “profit” may be incorrect. If “profit” is left over from all expenses, that means the laborers are being stolen from or the consumer is being ripped off.
You can certainly choose to run a business that breaks even on purpose. I don’t deny some people derive more value or satisfaction from having their employees earn a bit more and their costumers have slightly cheaper goods than from being able to accumulate more capital and wealth. The business that are more profitable will be able to grow more and be able to provide those services and goods to more people adding value to their lives. My understanding of capitalism is not incorrect. It’s really not complicated. It boils down to a system that respects property rights, which incentivizes people to acquire capital for the purpose of producing higher valued goods and services. The capital will naturally flow to whoever can use it best and manage to keep and increase it. What your saying is no different to a business owner that takes the profits and donates them to charity. Employees voluntarily enter into a contract with the employer, so no they are not getting stolen from. They are more than able to negotiate higher pay. And customers voluntarily pay for the goods snd services, so unless the goods and services are falsely marketed no one is getting ripped off. The reason they get paid a fixed salary in most cases is because they are not taking any of the risk the entrepreneur is taking. They get paid whether sales are good or not. The owner takes the risk so he enjoys the upside if the business is profitable or bears the burden of going out of business. You would greatly benefit from reading any Austrian economics books. I would personally recommend Principles of Economics by Saifedean. Happy to send you a free pdf.
I’ve read plenty of Austrian economics. I know how capitalism works. It’s much like the American Constitution, either it failed to prevent State corruption or it enabled it. I believe in free markets, that’s why I spread ideology and not legislation. You would be wise to research who creates the “barriers to entry” in modern global economies.
And yet you think at will employees are being stolen from? Doesn’t sound the Austrians teachings landed Capitalism is not legislation Even if you don’t like capitalism the alternative is not respecting property rights, which is a no go obviously. Your beef is not with capitalism (what happens when people can own stuff). Your beef is with the state giving preferential treatment to some business also known as cronyism. Or with the decay of morality brought about by the state destroying the nuclear family and religion The state didn’t create capitalism in case that was not clear
“Capitalism is not legislation “ that seriously is no where near historically accurate. You mean to tell me that not legislation has ever been enacted for “profit” of a company, group of individuals, or sector of the economy? Here is a real stick in the wheel…capitalism can also be its own religion.
Yes, the state can pick winners and losers. Cronyism is bad, no one is arguing to the contrary. However, that does not invalidate the merits of capitalism. Most people don’t fundamentally understand what capitalism is or why it’s the system that leads to the most prosperity and is morally superior. They just see Google paying the state to give them special privileges and cry capitalism is evils and broken. They are fighting a straw man the same way you seem to be. But we can agree to disagree
The labor theory of value was debunked a long time ago.
What is the “proof of work” theory?
Not related.
Okay
No, really, it's not. Labor theory of value debunked by Carl Menger: [Principles of Economics](https://mises.org/library/book/principles-economics) (1871} Has nothing to do with hashcash proof of work that was incorporated into bitcoin. See @Aaron van Wirdum's [The Genesis Book](https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0CSG6C6GR?tag=bravesoftwa04-20&linkCode=osi&th=1&psc=1&language=en_US).
Without labor, there is no service or product. Without expending energy, there is no mining bitcoin. Unless you have learn to change the laws of physics, there is no debate here.
If value/price is determined by labor or work inputs, explain a drop in price. Was there somehow "negative work"? The labor theory of value is bunk. > It is no crime to be ignorant of economics, which is, after all, a specialized discipline and one that most people consider to be a ‘dismal science.’ But it is totally irresponsible to have a loud and vociferous opinion on economic subjects while remaining in this state of ignorance. -- Rothbard
You’re a fucking retard if you think the economy has anything to do with “capitalism” today. Dumb fucking fuck.
That quite literally makes no sense. Capitalism either led us to current status or never existed ever in your beloved “free” form. Kindly, Retard and dumb fucking fuck
You have two options: Capitalism or Socialism We’re currently leaning heavily socialist if you haven’t noticed. Retard.
There are only two alternatives, centralised planning or decentralised planning. Capitalism or communism. There are levels of communism/socialism when part of society is decentralised and other parts are centralized planning. Arguing that we could have a 'third' system demonstrates low IQ
Why do these guys always equate non capitalist to communist? It seems to be the most popular false dichotomy regarding the subject. If you challenge their religion they resort to boomer proverbs and Red Scare tactics.
“Always will” is such a bizarre addition
Why would I ever stop loving capitalism?
People leave and change religions everyday. Divorce rates are pretty high. And people get tattoos removed all of the time. I don’t know though. Maybe you get sick of the political influence and corruption. Maybe you become the victim of environmental degradation. Maybe you realize the rampant income inequality. Maybe you get tired of the monopolies and oligopolies. The encouragement of consumerism and very high time preferences is a good reason not to as well. One of the most detrimental effects is the exploitation of labor and rent seeking behaviors. These cause the most class division. There are certainly benefits to enjoy that result from capitalism but when people make it part of their identity it’s like they lose the ability to be critical of it.
Shut up you whiny bitch
Whole lotta ado about nothing
ignore the haters. I like your pod
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I like you Peter but I really wish you would learn to just ignore trolls. You want to be Mayor of Bedford, you want to be a mature business owner and highly respected community member? Then grow up a little bit. Having the maturity to not give time and energy to saying gross stuff like that to trolls will go a long way to improving your image and helping you grow into the person you want to be. It's just immature to react that way. I like you, I'm just trying to help.
There is no value in labor as such. Value of a labor input is derived from the value of labor's output as priced on the open market. Do you think an entrepreneur who buys a property, sets up a business, buys all the capital to build a production line, starts paying employees before a single unit comes off that production line, let alone gets sold on the market--you're implying that's not a "contribution." He has taken on the vast majority of the risk, which is what earns him the right to take home the majority of the profit--and yet all this happens while paying his employees a fair (because agreed-upon) wage. Without the profit incentive, there is no investment, there is no development, there is no innovation--there are no entrepreneurs.
Hook, line, and sinker. If you think that “majority of profits” is the only way innovation happens or has happened, you do not understand psychology or human history. Most innovation comes from “how to make my life easier “ or “how to make this task at hand easier”. Profits is actually a new concept in the timeline of our species. Not to mention, I own a company, that generates no profit and pays the workers multiples more in what their peers get paid in our market. It works, I’m not asking…I’m telling. Todays company’s are mostly zombie companies with high evaluations do to the sea of shit fiat that we swim in. Most companies in history start small with very little over head, growing slowly and not really risking much but time/labor. However, most also make back their initial investment rather quickly or why would you take on more overhead if you have made no return. The true risk takers are the individuals who work for a company and they have no say in the operating decisions; meaning, a ceo can make a bad call and they have no job…which is no fault of their own. Yet, CEOs, executives, big stock holders make more in one day than the workers make in a lifetime. Keep regurgitating that capitalist mantra. It’s proven it is unsustainable. Would you like to move to why it is not sustainable?
I would gently encourage you, then, to keep reading Rothbard. Because so far, you've missed one of the most important economic lessons in history: value is subjective and on the margin, and has zero to do with "labor inputs." Thus the entire Marxist narrative about "stealing the value of labor" falls flat on its face. As it should (in theory), and as it has (in practice, hundreds of times).
Hook, line, and sinker. If you think that “majority of profits” is the only way innovation happens or has happened, you do not understand psychology or human history. Most innovation comes from “how to make my life easier “ or “how to make this task at hand easier”. Profits is actually a new concept in the timeline of our species. Not to mention, I own a company, that generates no profit and pays the workers multiples more in what their peers get paid in our market. It works, I’m not asking…I’m telling. Todays company’s are mostly zombie companies with high evaluations do to the sea of shit fiat that we swim in. Most companies in history start small with very little over head, growing slowly and not really risking much but time/labor. However, most also make back their initial investment rather quickly or why would you take on more overhead if you have made no return. The true risk takers are the individuals who work for a company and they have no say in the operating decisions; meaning, a ceo can make a bad call and they have no job…which is no fault of their own. Yet, CEOs, executives, big stock holders make more in one day than the workers make in a lifetime. Keep regurgitating that capitalist mantra. It’s proven it is unsustainable. Would you like to move to why it is not sustainable?
