Oddbean

Where’s the personal attack? You think having children is “hot garbage” we’re both in agreement it’s good you don’t have them. You wouldn’t want someone who thinks like you to have kids obviously. That’s your point above. We both agree.

Wrong. I didn’t say children were hot garbage. I’m referring to your hot take about increasing the population. Don’t get it twisted. Some people want kids. Some people don’t. Simple as that. My point is that it is NOT a life path many people and that’s totally fine.

We don’t have to. But that doesn’t mean I’m going to stand by and let you (or anyone else in your mentions) shame people into having children as if it’s the only way to live a fulfilling life (as you have done in previous posts). Expect me to respond. Make babies Make art Make money Make love Rescue animals Protect the environment Protect the vulnerable Read literature Push science’s boundaries Travel the world Climb mountains Explore the ocean Write songs Write books Write code Study maths Visit libraries Appreciate music, poetry, sunsets, sunrises, friends, or community. Don’t tell anyone that there is only one way to have a fulfilling life.

When I was younger, I thought not having kids meant more freedom and fewer responsibilities. But as I’ve grown, I see how raising a family can be one of the most meaningful ways to create a lasting legacy and shape the future. Contributing to something bigger than myself is rewarding in ways I couldn’t have imagined back then. Darwin also called it *fitness*.

That’s all well and good FOR YOU, but there are a variety of ways to contribute to something bigger than yourself, if you have the inclination to do so and, perhaps, some imagination beyond your reproductive biology. You misread Darwin. “Fitness” has absolutely nothing to do with an individual decision to contribute to anything greater than the self.

You’re misunderstanding my point.. I never stated that having children was my only contribution, nor did I equate the decision to raise a family with Darwinian fitness in the narrow sense you’re implying. In my original post, I was simply reflecting on how building a family can be a meaningful way to leave a legacy and contribute to something larger than oneself. I’ve made significant contributions in other ways as well. Often, when I hear people speak of “contributing” to a greater cause, I find it’s just a façade—people showcasing material possessions or performing acts of “giving back” to enhance their own self-image. Fitness, in Darwin’s context, is about the survival and propagation of traits, and I never intended it as a justification for personal choices.

Reread your post. Do I need to explain how declarative sentences work? You repeatedly write that’s there is an imperative for people to have more children. I’m countering that telling people what choices to make with their lives indicates a bloated self-importance. And yes, now I am making it personal. You have no business telling people to have kids, or insulting people who chose not to.

The Trivium Blow-by-blow of this exchange for illustrative purposes (imaging you are reading an account of a boxing match) ... @HODL makes a logical claim...followed by logical solution to that claim, followed by a closing argument that was opinion based. Well constructed...the claim is verifiable or falsafiable. The claim and the solution presented is the debate...GO... @JayLeClay starts with an apeal to emotion("hot garbage") countered with a logical claim to @HODL 's OPINION (red herring argument) that [parenthood] is "simply the best". by countering with a straw man argument with the statement "some people would be better off not [having children]. -. Then concludes with the counter argument to the first logical point with the agrument that the "world doesnt need more people". (the counter claim) @hodl makes a round-about ad hominem attack... @JayLeClay responds by pointing out the ad hominem attack and produces his own... @hodl responds by deflecting the previous ad hominem and produces a response to the original red herring ...the crowd goes wild!!!!! The only way to get better ideas, it through better discorse. Let all learn together.

This isn’t clever, though it is cute. And also sad. Calling his claim “hot garbage” is not an appeal to emotion. I don’t know where you learned dialectic, but it appears you missed a few classes. You have just enough education to appear sophisticated, but not enough to impress the initiated.  My claim that some people would be better of not having children is not a straw man, at all. While neither verifiable nor falsifiable (due to the fact that some life choices are somewhat, shall we say, permanent), it is YOU who are creating a straw man by distorting what I said. To wit, I did NOT write, as you claim, “the world doesn’t need more people.” I wrote, “The world doesn’t SIMPLY need more people.” Can you understand the difference? Try reading it again a few times for better comprehension. I’ll wait. In fact, my next sentence emphasizes that point by praising quality over quantity but, apparently you and HODL (and others here) think more is better no matter what quality of lives those people have, or what qualities of character good parenting might instill.   Y’all just want MOAR and that is, in a word, dumb. Since I apparently need to repeat myself, I did not call HIM or children in general “hot garbage” but evidently you and others think that me opposing his “make more babies” idea is the same as a personal insult. Is he *that* identified with this declarative? Are you? JFC, where did you people learn to communicate? To repeat, with more emphasis: Make babies (if you want to and feel you are ready to commit your life to raising a kind, responsible human being. The world needs more of that.) Or, you can also… Make art Make money Make love Rescue animals Protect nature Protect the vulnerable Read literature Push science’s boundaries Push technology’s boundaries Travel the world Climb mountains Sail the oceans Write songs Write books Write code Study mathematics Study philosophy Study history Study #bitcoin Build a business Be a mentor Visit libraries #Meditate Appreciate music, poetry, sunsets, sunrises, friends, or community. It’s all well and good that @HODL enjoys being a dad, but he has also admonished people for not doing so, and now others dogpile on to rebuke me for simply providing alternative sources for a meaningful life. ALTERNATIVES! Can’t there be more than one way to live life? Or must we all be parents? Don’t you hear how insanely stupid that sounds?? I weep for your children. Oh, how some of them will let you down when they decide not to give you grandchildren because they want to pursue other paths WITH THEIR OWN LIVES. How immoral of them to not agree with what you think is the only way to live!    Here’s a tip: Don’t tell anyone that there is only one way to have a fulfilling life and that everyone must do it! Else, you are nothing more than a fanatic. (The world does not need more of those.) I would recommend you not have children until, at the very least, you come to that realization for yourself.  To conclude, I’m writing all this not to prove a point to you or any other breeder trying to troll me. Rather, to anyone else reading this who wants to remain childless, either because of personal choice, or sexuality, or medical condition, or any other reason, believe me when I tell you: Life is *also* wonderful and thrilling and fulfilling and happy without children. Don’t take any shit from anyone who tells you otherwise.