People are thinking about the Samourai situation the wrong way IMO.
They’re worried about hiding (KYC vs non-KYC) like it matters.
"Oh, I see you’ve bought a house, but we have no idea where you got the money for it and can’t trace it back to a sats purchase you made through your bank. We do see you paid taxes on $60K per year and have a $5M house, but we will leave you alone in this citadel since we can’t trace the specific sats to your bank account!”
FFS, if they’re coming after your property, they’re coming after your property. They don’t give a fuck about your rights, and they don’t really care how you got what you have. You think it matters they can’t *prove* you got it through sats appreciation? They can’t prove someone else didn’t lose his keys, either. They don’t care.
The beauty of the technology is they literally cannot seize this one asset unless you volunteer the keys. They can jail you, they can murder you, but they can’t take it from you, and more importantly they can’t do so remotely. They need to expend resources and be on camera, in person. This is a very big handicap and a huge advertisement to others to store their wealth out of their reach.
You have the strongest hand in the history of humanity. Stand up to the bully.
My man. Spittin hot fire.
Sorry Chris, you don’t understand why Nostriches would want to remain anon - therefore your POV on any topic related to privacy belongs in the bin with all the other garbage.
Should have considered this before shit hit the fan.
I like his point about just getting on with it though. For Bitcoin to really cross to mainstream people need to just flood the World with sats life. Then that will be the inflection point. It’s coming as people wake up to Bitcoin’s p2p fundamentals
That’s gonna take people who protect their real identities and don’t have a string of #Bitcoin opinions associated with it which would indicate they’re a HODLer for a period of time - they will become targets when it soars beyond gold and/or Govs get involved in earnest.
Chris couldn’t see that far ahead. He went off on one from his Boomer lens because he hasn’t thought through where this is actually going.
His opinion deserves the dismissal I gave it. It was peak muppetdom.
No, your 11-dimensional chess is too advanced for me!
Ok, I’m out before this becomes a twitter thread 🤙😂
Basic praxeology was beyond you.
You couldn’t think 6 months ahead let alone 60 let alone 600.
Low time preference Boomerism isn’t the future of Bitcoiners; you are the case study proving that.
You’re entitled to your opinion. To me, you just seem scared.
But maybe you’re right, and I fucked up, posting under my own name!
We shall see.
And you’re entitled to yours; yours just happens to be demonstrably wrong.
I saw it a mile off and you can’t even see it as it slaps you upside the head, so you come in with rationalisations from your Boomer lens which have as much value as dogshit on a shoe.
No it isn't because the bitcoin is too complex and difficult to use for 90% of people. And if you have to use a custodial lightning wallet (which itself still has usability limitations) what exactly is the point in using Bitcoin at all? Might as well use paypal/visa.
In a lawless society, it’s probably best not be flaunting anything. Stay humble, stack sats, enjoy life and don’t make yourself the target. There simply is no legal system to protect if the criminals are in charge as they are writing the fucking laws. Why is that so hard for many to comprehend?
Sounds similar to the rationale people gave for taking the covid shot. Time to stand up for yourself.
A fair point sir. I am still trying to work through re-establishment of civil society without civil war when the judiciary has been captured. Can't really see it
We will all die at some point, no matter what. Cancer, heart attack, car accident. No one knows the future.
Don’t let bullies force you to live in fear and make your give up your rights preemptively.
Oh I totally agree and we are entering a period of heightened centralised projection of power. And giving up won’t help and there’s no one coming to “save us”. Freedom has to be fought for constantly against bad actors. But my point does stand to a degree still on the flaunting. If you’re going to walk through a poor neighbourhood with a Rolex, make sure you protect yourself or simply choose initially not to wear the Rolex. Work around rules where you can and identify the battles. A good silly example is the bat boxes on the dystopian cameras in Uk. People were angle grinding them down. You could get prosecuted. Stick a box for bats to nest and they’re wrapped up in contradictory “laws”
You can do both. But just as it is stupid to only use Bitcoin, when you could use both Bitcoin and Monero combining their strength. It's stupid to only stand up for yourself without also using the protective shield anonymity can give you.
Be smart. Combine the strength of different tools and approaches instead of sacrificing yourself with limited impact
The real issue with Samurai is that devs building none custodial wallets get arrested for writing code.
The Feds have no case. They themselves are the terrorists.
Is that solid or more like wishful thinking?
Exactly. Everyone is panicking over the wrong thing.
The USA is great an all, buy living here as a Bitcoiner has become a liability.
In my opinion, you should have a 2nd citizenship somewhere safe for you and your family
And you don't have to move your wealth in cash and gold bars
🥹
Been saying this, very well said.
It's the main reasoning on why I abstained from using Samourai in the first place - and I definitely got roasted for it.
👇👇👇"Stand UP, Plebs!"👇👇👇
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Agree for everyday life and the scenario given but an under-mattress stack-o-sats is a very important component to have in a collapse/tyranny scenario. Only kyc the sats you are prepared to cross a border WITHOUT. If you only want kyc-free for tax evasion, then yeah, the same rules apply as those to cash already.
To elaborate, the flip side of this is the point you are making well: you can't use your sats for anything big/useful unless they are tagged and bagged. Sats visible enough to use in a jurisdiction are subject to jurisdictional risk. My take away: you need both. Private and public. Hard to confiscate and even harder to confiscate.
Agreed, but we gain a greater advantage if we can get everyone to self custody.
when it comes time - most do whatever they can to stay alive.
given this is the default survival mode, it is best to find a solution that most can adopt and manage.
you talk of bullies. remember the schoolyard bully - how many walked away in tears? how many avoided them at all costs?
making them use as many resources as possible is the smart thinking. make them have to look in as many places as possible. make them have to acquire passwords or other secure access from multiple locations or people, make the rewards for every effort worthless (ie more costly than the reward) ....
drain their resources trying to drain ours.
project power via your cold-stack, node, miner..
more power, more survival..
And when someone is holding a gun to your wife's head, saying: "Give me your keys or she dies" how many of us will say "no".
Really...
Não há propriedade real no mundo moderno. não se iludam achando que irão comprar imoveis com btc no futuro, e assim viver uma vida feliz e livre, o btc é a unica ferramenta monetaria que te permitirá ter alguma riqueza para comprar algo necessário no mercado negro, ou então repassar seu suor pra seus filhos para que eles ainda tenham uma ferramenta contra o sistema ou então uma forma de levar todo seu patrimônio pro caixão. Isso é uma guerra de exterminio.
se estamos indo pro mercado negro precisamos de monero
You think that we “win” if you cold store our Sats because they cannot make us give it up?
We still “lose” if you are not able to spend it. You will have 35M$ on your Coldcard and still “lose” if it’s not usable.
They will “win” unless you comply.
I rather KYC, buy BTC, put it on my Cold Storage. Wait for appreciation, sell a portion of it on a registered exchange/broker, pay my taxes on the gain and pay off my house.
Being able to accumulate registered/KYC/Play by the rule Bitcoin and sell it with a registered company to be debt free IS the way to show the finger to banks and governments and exit the system.
Not by being a dreaming No-KYC rebel thinking it’s cool to skip class.
How hard are you hallucinating my friend ????
I have been lucky to be debt free almost all of my grown life (not an american) and it doesn't make me "win" whatsover ;D
I can be fined if I don't register my address, I can be fined if I don't carry an ID on me, and I don't have a say to how much tax I want to pay or where my tax euros are going to.
And how is your exemple even related to Bitcoin?
If you want services someone needs to pay for it, it’s usually from taxes.
If you want a say of where your taxes go, that’s called democracy and you can vote to elect the people in charge of spending. If it’s a dictatorship regime, it’s another story.
Sorry but your Cold Wallet won’t give more freedom about carrying an ID
My examples have nothing to do with bitcoin same as being debt free has nothing to do with actual freedom
I won’t even start with representative vs direct democracy, can only be happy for you having a conviction on douche vs turd sandwich, happy election year !
Imagine a world where you don’t have to carry an because you are not a property of a country and you use cryptographic signature if you voluntarily want to identify yourself 🥰
#bitcoin #nostr #cryptography #cypherpunk #freedom
Carry an ID. I love it on Nostr that whenever I make a mistake in a post it’s out there forever xD
Yeah, so if you need to voluntarily identify yourself, I would need to trust that you are who you claim to be right.
So for Bitcoin we want to”Don’t trust, Verify” but for dealing with people you would need to “trust, can’t verify”.
You see how deep in outer space you are? Nothing makes sense, go listen to your podcasts and go on doing what you do.
On cryptographic signatures. Lets say instead of passport you have to make a transaction to the government that contains your biometric picture. Any time in the future you can prove *WITHOUT A DOUBT you are the person who made the transaction as long as you still hold the keys. Keys can be stolen same as ID can be, but can't be forged. Identity cannot be stolen for online uses in traditional ways because having the information is not enough, you have to have the KEYS !
The point was about you saying “voluntarily” identifying yourself, which wouldn’t work out in a society since nobody wants to identify.
For cryptographic signatures, it would be the worst possible idea for freedom. If you would research blockchain architecture, you would see that there are 2 types of Blockchains (Public and private). A Public blockchain would allow me to potentially see a lot of your activities. You don’t want that privacy wise.
The governments are pushing for private blockchains. With your “signature” and biometric they will be able to verify you and track you. Since they would have laid out the infrastructure, they will push for a CBDC and they will then be able to track your spending and control your funds.
Please, go read about the topic of blockchain and stop listening to these Bitcoin Superstars on podcast. If you are really into government conspiracy read on CBDC and government blockchain.
Hi Monkey. Bitcoin works because it's a public blockchain so you can verify, not trust. Sure nobody wants to be identified by government because they use that identification for extorsion mostly.
There might be hundreds of purposes for identifying with some PRIVAT institution one trust. Like an employer. A bank you chose to use. A school. I see many reasons I would be happy to hop on even private chains for those instead of using my ID with the government as the ultimate overlord. Good that we got #nostr by know so we don't need private chains or using money chain for identification xD
Maybe, depends how dire things get
The core problem is that bitcoin is a territory of freedom, but it's a territory with no economy.
It's a territory that imports everything from the fiat Dominion.
This is why we are dependent on the fiat authorities. They gatekeep access to all the stuff we want.
We can solve this problem by creating our own economy, and we do this by being more productive and more efficient than the fiat Dominion.
The global economy is currently dependent on slavery. We need it to become dependent on our freedom.
When they attack us, we need the economic teeth to enforce our rights and cause serious damage to the attacker. They do this to us today - comply or lose access to the fiat economy. Bitcoiners need to be productive enough that this flips the other way around - attack our freedom and lose access to the bitcoin economy.
While I absolutely disagree with this strategy, I frankly see no other realistic, viable alternatives.
BTC will die a governmentally regulated death...it's now a matter of how and when.
Yes, people could push back, but virtually none will--
OK we will tax you first, and gradually more and more just for holding it. We will tax anything that doesn't move.
You're not fully understanding the situation if you actually think that
The simplest way to say how you are not understanding the situation is the Bitcoin is an inherently anti governmental concept.
It is built on a long history of governments screwing over their citizens thru inflation and is a form of money that is very hard for governments to stop.
For you to 'tell" them you own it is telling a potential enemy information about yourself that could be very critical for you.
If the US government doesn't know you own it and they (very likely) can't stop it or devalue it, then you are in control. You have the upper hand, so to speak.
Read the bitcoin white paper, 'The Sovereign Individual' and read some monetary history (for example, the inflation in the Roman days) for some context if you haven't already.
This is the right way, but it also shows that Bitcoin is a failure . Its nothing more than a gambling asset, a hot potato on which some will make money and others will not. Its not a currency and has no other use. And its certainly is not 'freedom tech'.
Mister @Chris Liss has made a beautiful point here about how cold storage disables authorities abuse our freedoms in secrecy. For example @lyuda_kozlovska had many great conversations on different podcasts about authoritarian regimes (and not only) blocking funds, and we only know about it cause people like her are dedicating their lives to make it public.
They can block a bank account (say, Russias) with no fuss, but they can't quietly cease the BTC of say, El Salvador
Counterpoint: In any form of warfare, minimizing your attack surface is best practice. Forcing them to find me AND physically detain me is an added layer of security.
As for spending, doing so conspicuously is never wise. Live humbly, and support your local Gray Market for everything else.
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FYI, while you talk about property rights, the secrecy of communication is guaranteed in Japan.
https://njump.me/nevent1qqs9yelshaztx4n7u9ha0mzuw53q3aezgagrjd75jkac0m860s0su6czyq6cndunh9mufup9zad067fw03gaymhksw69e0rxc4ky699d2wz8ut7dmpg
The secrecy of communication is also guaranteed in the US...until the government decides to ignore the constitution (without penalty).
Laws are irrelevant if no one is willing to enforce them.
yeah absolutely. terrible and scary.
And perhaps worse still is differential enforcement, where one group is allowed to break the law and another group isn't.
I'm japanese and don't know US system at all. Can't we sue FBI warnings the same way crypto bro sue SEC wells notices?
This is clear thinking. If we are in fact moving toward a panopticon society of oligopolistic control, then a system of laws is largely irrelevant. Non-participation becomes extremely important as does, as Chris states, storing valuables out of reach of the corrupt state. BTC serves this function well. Gold/silver also serve this function well, though not as perfect as btc. Unregistered private property in inaccessible locations is also good. Base layer skills (mechanic, gardening, building, etc skills ) are also unconfiscatable and make you more resilient/increase your community value. Essentially sovereign human type stuff. I'd be curious to hear other peoples' ideas on decentralizing ownership amid increasing corruption.
Monero also good. If not the best.
100%. I must say, I fall into "crowd-pleasers" when I use btc to refer to decentralized digital value exchange here as this is a fairly btc maxi environ. Certainly no hate whatsoever to the btc maxi crowd, but history has not been written, we don't know how this all plays out, and we certainly don't know what will be valued as money in the future. To that end, Monero is a great tool. Been mining it for years, been accepting it as my preferred method of payment at festivals for years, wish more people would adopt it.
I like Monero and I also have some LTC for when the mempool doesn't comply with me needing some fiat money, for cheap.
For sure, I love using LTC as well, super fast, super cheap, reliable. It would be great to have a diverse ecosystem of cryptos exchangable on open source, decentralized protocols that offer native mixing. I think this is the beautiful promise of crytpo. I think btc as king (essentially like spendable gold) with many community-loved cryptos relating to it (btc) and one-another. Of course the many scam coins (usually POS stuff), will continue to be a thorn in the "credibility" argument posed by non-crypto types, but, inauthenticity has a way of shaking itself out over time.
Yeah we need to go back to the roots and build more tamperproof and resistant decentralised apps again. We've tried going down the KYC and AML rabbit whole but let's face it, those frameworks are as broken as it gets and they're simply not compatible with Bitcoin. Trying to squeeze BTC into frameworks which don't even work as a control mechanism in the legacy world, didn't work out.
As for the "all cryptos are shitcoins", it's something the new generation of Bitcoiners has come to believe thanks to inFLUenzas like Saylor and other institutional cunts. Altcoins (not shit-tokens minted on 3rd party shitcoin chains) have always played a vital role in our space and they always will.
For me, all cryptocurrencies aka cryptographic cash systems (including Bitcoin) are just currencies. Anything else is preference, fanboy-ism. There is a good amount of coins out there which have been around for over a decade and each of them has it's use-case or own utility. Yes Bitcoin is King and that's where the stacking is at but it doesn't hurt to own some other coins too. Anything is literally better than keeping fiat money.
Yep, yep, I think you hit the nail on the head here. It is frustrating to see people shit on altcoins that have been around nearly as long as btc, that use, essentially the same basic tech, and, in some cases an expanded protocol for specific purpose (ie: Monero and ring signatures for privacy). I sort of think the pendulum will swing back and many old school crypto folks will be put off by the institutional push of btc and desire a bit of balance in their decentralized tools/holdings. We shall see.
Instead of 5m house, how about a 50k house, used 2k car. The solution is to lower time preference and live a low profile.
Thats it, they can't take it.
Be wary when they say that they have the entire history of whirlpool TX to get people to panick and consolidate all their UTXO's.
You can also stand up to the bully at the same time. It isn't mutually exclusive. You can chew gum and walk.
Samourai tools had no affect over whether your Bitcoin was KYC vs non-KYC
As if a house is the only thing you can buy with Bitcoin.
Why would you want to make it easier for them to know about your finances? It's an information war. The less they know the better it is for you.
Yea they can't seize your keys in theory, but 99% of Bitcoiners would give up their keys under duress with the threat of prison looming over them, confiscation of other property (or even worse in other countries). Bypass this scenario completely by being private and/or anonymous.
Oh ! Well, if they can only jail you, nothing to worry about! Jail is basically the same as freedom. *eyeroll* Bitcoin bros in denial. And if what you say is true, why not just use fiat, they gonna get you anyway right?
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