Oddbean

Some thoughts on KYC vs NON KYC 1. I think that if we have to rely on NON KYC bitcoin, bitcoin has failed If people have to worry about spending their bitcoin, we will never get to a bitcoin standard 2. KYC bitcoin will be fine (and necessary) in the future Banks will want to hold your bitcoin And you don't want to pay tax for living off of your bitcoin stack So instead of spending, use it as collateral *which will require KYC bitcoin 3. There are plenty of ways to earn NON KYC bitcoin ZBD Fountain Nostr These small amounts will add up if you're earning them consistently. This will be more than enough NON KYC in a decade 4. This 👆 combined with getting some P2P (meetups, bitcoin communities, etc) and P2P exchanges (HODL HODL, Bisq, Peach) 8. The more organized you are with wallets the better. This will ensure you are not mixing KYC and NON KYC Use tools like Aqua to combine your NON KYC sats and swap into UTXOs in cold storage My prediction: it will become legal tender (CURRENCY) in most countries Moral of the story: don't stress about it

The no-kyc thing is simply to detach yourself from the corrupt fiat system while telling the IRS to GFY at the same time. Bitcoin was designed as a peer-to-peer cash system and there is no reason to even cater to the idea of using custodians (such as bank) to store YOUR money. I do however agree that one should have a small KYC stack as well for the given reasons. You're better off to borrow against some of your BTC if you get into such a situation than selling the sats. You'll never get them back at their original exchange rate. However, there is no logical reason to believe that legacy finance, banks and co will ever not scam their customers (one way or another) or that your accounts get frozen (for any or no reason) or that your custodian rejects your transactions just like some Banks already do when people try to transact with THEIR fiat. In particular if they want to swap that fiat for Bitcoin.

Agree also. There is a huge journey ahead in this monumental paradigm shift. I am hoping much of this old legacy model dies off as citizens awake to a Bitcoin Standard possibility. It will take generations to get there fully

Yes that's a great point I'm also hoping that the banks in the new system will require much less KYC (if any) And I think simply holding the keys to your bitcoin is a big enough GFY to the old system

The problem is that Bitcoiners are urging everyone to hop on board but until we have ways to realistically and affordably buy Bitcoin without giving very sensitive documents to centralized exchanges (which are high value, daily targets of cyber attacks), the "don't stress it" mentality is a bit of a contradiction. I am not concerned about the government side of KYC (though that is still an issue). I'm concerned about giving over sensitive, government documentation that can be used to steal my identity, ruin credit, affect my ability to buy or rent necessities, etc. I cannot verify that these exchanges are doing due diligence. If a breach occurs, the nightmare of government bureaucracy as I try to fix things is just about the LAST thing I need on my plate right now. The other issue is that non-KYC methods range from Inconvenient to impractical to downright dangerous (eg cash by mail). Then, you have the ATMs that charge ungodly sums in fees, likewise becoming immensely impractical. I'm pretty much at the point where I've given up until KYC restrictions are relaxed a bit (unlikely) or another, more practical and safe no-KYC method arises.

My fear is if my government becomes even more tyrannical once it's fiat begins to collapse and then starts going after bitcoiners who bought KYC to "bolster" the national reserve. In Lebanon and Argentina they basically stole people's dollars. I like kyc because it's cheaper and more convenient but I think dark times might be ahead of us and I'd prefer to reduce the chance of governments knowing about my stack.

I've thought about that, but for starters they'll know how much you have bought, then it's just a matter of how evil and desperate they are. In Solzhenitsyn's book, Gulag Archipelago, they would interrogate supected "wealthy" people without knowing their actual net worth but they'd have their ways of getting lots of people to crack. From what I read, if the torture/fear is too much and you'd rather hand over your wealth, best to not give a large amount (relative to what they think you have) early on, otherwise they might think it was too easy and that you could be hiding more. But it's definitely nice to know that they can never steal your btc even if they kill you, a nice big old F U.

I don't stress too much, but I do question my ability to know when it's time to move. Sometimes people feel overconfident or smart enough to know when that time will come, yet when covid hit all over the world, most people sat in place. Also, not everyone has it as easy to move around, as an MD from Mexico, I can't immediately find work in some other country and my stack isn't big enough to live care free. That's why I'm trying to make a living online, but that still needs some time.

I understand you 100%. I am not an MD but I also don’t have a big stack. I left my home country when I was in my early 20s because I hate communism and I knew I couldn’t change it by staying. Now I have kids so it is much harder to move but I have set my mind. I will never be a slave of the system again. I am willing to go down to a low paying job if that’s what it takes. I was about to leave during covid where I live now but we decided not to comply and to stay with the high paying job to keep stacking. So far it is working out. We also sold our home and put all the equity in Bitcoin. Renting now. Lots of extra work but I hope it will pay off. You are a very smart man and very knowledgeable. Don’t forget that no one can take that from you. We struggled too about the KYC stuff at the begging but decided we cannot risk going to jail if we lie on our taxes. So we rather move if we have to. But that’s just us. I feel we all go through this process at least once in our Bitcoin journey. You are in Nostr and buying Bitcoin you are already winning 🫡

Thanks for sharing your story, it's always nice to hear/read about things like this, everyone has their own personal battles. I'm just glad to be part of a movement that loves freedom and understands that it doesn't come free. Nonetheless I'm sure things will work out in the end.

We feel the same I recommend to watch this video if you haven’t yet. It talks about KYC and how it isn’t that easy to track. It is from Mathew Kratter’s Bitcoin University. “Can you track people sending Bitcoin?” https://youtu.be/diDqOru6LMA?si=44s0GPp7qjGvdsfl

What is the reason for kyc when a pub/priv key can manage both the funds and contracts? Well, the reason is to decrease the banker’s risk and increase compliance through the ability to punish that person’s trust level and livelihood beyond the contract itself through lawsuits or other restrictions. Collateralization does not necessarily require kyc, for example, an automated audited smart contract combined with agreed upon oracle data is one scenario. This setup can protect both parties from risk of default or from market changes that affect the contract…without the need for kyc. How about we all start thinking beyond the legacy constraints of legacy banking and implement a don’t trust, verify attitude towards more than just transactional outputs.