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Matt Warren | 3 months ago (raw) | root | parent | reply | flag 
 I don't fear god and don't even believe in one, yet I don't think rape and murder are acceptable. One doesn't need to completely sell out intellectually to be moral.
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Daniel Wigton | 3 months ago (raw) | root | parent | reply | flag +2 
 No, in fact selling out intellectually would preclude moral perfection as failure to employ the faculty of reason where appropriate would be an abuse.

You do, however, imply that fearing or believing in God would be selling out intellectually. I see no reason to make that conclusion. That you personally have not seen compelling evidence for God is not a proof that others have not either and are behaving irrationally.
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banjo | 3 months ago (raw) | root | parent | reply | flag 
 Oh agree completely--threre are indeed some sane atheists--and yet those that DO feel that it's ok to "murder death kill" (with apologies to Simon Phoenix) almost without exception do not believe in a higher authority...
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Matt Warren | 3 months ago (raw) | root | parent | reply | flag 
 What are you basing this on? You're making the claim as if it's fact, but haven't cited any evidence. Studies of inmates in the US, for example, disagree. Most of them are not atheists.
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banjo | 3 months ago (raw) | root | parent | reply | flag 
 Prima facie - and people in prison often come to change their outlooks.

If you believe in God, then you know murder is wrong. You can (of course) choose to go against God's word...

But if you do not believe in God, then there is nothing holding you back...the only person you answer to is yourself...and you may in fact give yourself permission to kill...
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Matt Warren | 3 months ago (raw) | root | parent | reply | flag 
 Your belief about atheists is actually a pretty well studied bias, by the way. Here is just one example: https://www.nature.com/articles/s41562-017-0151

And you also say 'God' and 'His rules' as if that is some clear definition or morality. Which god? There are thousands. Which rules? There are many different rules, even amongst the Abrahamic religions alone. Much rape and murder has been committed in the name of god. There are examples explicitly in the Christian Bible saying it is okay to kill people for reasons I and many Atheists would say is wrong. I think you're just biased like most people.

You also say there are some sane atheists, as if sanity is at play. Do you also think most Atheists are insane? I haven't seen any evidence suggesting that Atheisism or religion is an indicator of sanity. Insanity doesn't really accommodate things like morality, religion, or reason. You can't really measure the beliefs of an insane person due to the detachment from reality.
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banjo | 3 months ago (raw) | root | parent | reply | flag 
 You seem to feel I'm predjudiced against atheists...I'm not.

I'm simply saying that there are 10 Commandments to live by--anyone can choose to follow them or not.

Atheists decide what is right based on their own personal views, and therefore atheists can give themselves permissions to do whatever they'd like without consequences.

Christians (and many other religions) do not condone murder, and there are consequences for those that choose to ignore God's guidance and go their own path. And those consequences do indeed serve as a deterrent.

You may (of course) be able to find and serve outliers as examples, but that doesn't change the fact that those believing in God (and living by HIs words) are less likely to commit crimes than those that only have to listen to themselves to determine what is right.

Individual moral relativism is not the answer...
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Matt Warren | 3 months ago (raw) | root | parent | reply | flag 
 I think it because you have made it clear with your own statements.
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banjo | 3 months ago (raw) | root | parent | reply | flag 
 Logic is not prejudice...

Life is a cost-benefit analysis (for everything). If you believe the costs are low, and the benefit is high, you'll do it. If the costs are high and overwhelm the benefits received, you won't.

When God is involved the costs go up. Without God, the costs are what each person personally determines them to be.

Simple...cost benefit