Privacy. 

Cashapp Bitcoin ➡️ Nuts ➡️ LN wallet ➡️ Cold storage  

 Does something like liquid as the intermediate here do the same thing for privacy? For example, cash app then swap to liquid then swap to lightning then to cold storage? Same number of steps. To be transparent, I haven’t played with nuts so my question could be kind of stupid. 

 This would work as well!  Imo Liquid is more secure since it requires more custodians to rug so that may be a better way of achieving privacy. I'd only send 1 million sats or more to cold storage and I would feel more comfortable with Liquids security model rather than with ecash that has a single anon custodian  

 Dev > Company  

 I gotta say I agree with this. The added privacy doesn't seem worth the custodial trade-off to me.  

 Most people aren’t using Lightning non-custodially. Cashu adds a layer of privacy, no need for an account, and payments can be settled offline; better tradeoffs imo compared to using WoS or similar Lightning address providers. It’s also rather simple to use, nothing more than copy-pasting a url and/or a string of text to send and receive payments: https://i.nostr.build/zZmV.jpg  

 Maybe if and when the experience gets better. I just can't see how in it's current state the user experience is better for new users. We probably aren't there yet, that's all. Maybe in a few months or a year it will all be seamless. 

 Have you tried minibits? 

 I have not. I have only used eNuts. 

 Ah. That explains why you think there is a confusing extra step. You should see how simple things are with minibits. 

 Will do. 

 The eNuts app is really seamless when sending and receiving so far. Done some test transfers via the app QR and over Nostr. 

 I've used it since it launched. It's nicely done. I just don't get why I need this extra step 😂 

 You are only thinking from the perspective of a self custody lightning wallet that can send and receive zaps. Most new users need a zap solution that is custodial but Alby is closed and WOS left town.  

 You don't need the extra step. But for people who only know and use custodial lightning solutions, it's pretty cool and simple. I can appreciate the privacy add, too. I like the idea of a cheap "tumbler" between my purchase from Robosats and my node. 

 💯 

 How don't I need an extra step? Am I missing something? Someone sends me nuts. I accept them. I then send them to my lightning node. Otherwise, they go right to my node. 

 Sorry, bad wording on my part. I meant it doesn't help you much since you run a node. 

 The tradeoff is it improves privacy and you can do things like give everyone on nostr a wallet without even requiring people to sign up. You can also do offline payments. 

 So does this mean "we all" centralize around the same mint if everyone has a default Cashu address from npub.cash? 

 Right now I think everyone on npub.cash uses the minibits mint. Npub.cash clearly displays a warning that it’s just a proof of concept though. 

 Thanks. Would it be possible for users to one day use their own mints or other mints with npub.cash?  

 Yeah I think so. In eNuts you can add as many mints as you want. I personally wouldn’t run a mint though. Once people start using tokens from your mint it becomes your responsibility to keep the mint running. 

 Yes. this is coming soon. You will have an option to pick your fav. mint. 

 No, there are lots of mints. You can send your nuts from one mint to any mint via lightning transaction, even to a mint you own. Cashu wallets let you have many mints with separate balances. You can use @Minibits + Amethyst and that uses the minibits mint. npub.cash is one solution primarly for ios users and desktop users as @eNuts ⚡️🌰 doesn't have the same ln to ecash bridge that minibits has.  

 I have used eNuts. Maybe I need to look at minibits to understand this bridge that you're talking about, because with eNuts I have cashed out from nuts to my lightning node with minimal effort. 

 enuts also has a sweet "swap mint" function under mint management that allows you to move funds to a different mint in enuts. All ecash can be "melted" to your self custodial lightning wallet if you choose. 

minibits functions as a custodial lightning wallet where the balance is kept as ecash - the ln bridge is both ways

you can receive ln payments as ecash
you can pay ln invoices from ecash balance

your note can get zapped to your minibits address if it is in your ln address of your nostr profile and it automatically arrives in minibits wallet as ecash

you can zap in nostr client and approve automtically in minibits, two clicks 

Amethyst also has slick redemtion of ecash tokens that are dm'd via nostr contacts as you can send ecash to any npub via minibits
 

 Lots of good information here. Thanks. 

 The most important question is always ultimately "who controls the keys to the lightning channel that holds the sats backing the ecash tokens?" I know you know this, but just inserting this here for others who may not, and maybe that's part of what you were getting at with your initial post in this thread. Cashu is useful but it is 100% ruggable by whoever runs the node that backs the mint. People have to understand this. 

 100%. I'm starting to view it as a privacy layer for temporary sat storage. I don't know if I'd feel comfortable using it for large zaps either. As @kidwarp mentioned in this thread somewhere, you get in and you get out. Which, if you're doing that, telling people to constantly move their sats from nuts to sats, then it becomes extra steps that need to be done and not a good user experience for noobs. We're just replacing one custodian with another on a temporary basis in the same of privacy. 

 I think people just love an excuse to talk about their nuts 

  https://image.nostr.build/ba024a6e14138debc8760c148ce7a7d14d9f3a4d3301c56be4378d671dd31d04.jpg  

 This is where most adoption comes from 😂 

 Can you explain how one might get rugged? 

 Start a mint, take people's money, don't give it back 

 Couldn't I just connect to another mint? The money is stored on my phone, not the mint as far as I understand it, which I admit, I don't. 

 Yes the ecash is in your phone, but the funds for that ecash is in one specific mint. It's like a bank, you have money in the bank and you get IOUs that you can give to other people, but they are only redeemable in your bank. If your bank closes, you just have IOUs. Other banks can't give you funds that you didn't had with them.  

 This is a great explanation. Thank you. 

 Any mint can rug whenever they want 

 🎯 

 No one uses lightning in a self sovereign way anyway. Better privacy and less confusing steps imo 

 I do. 

 Same  

 Nice. Same. The vast majority do not and never will 

 I agree, most will not.  

 I do. 

 These are tools. You get in and get out fast. You make your purchase of whatever private and you get out. Receive payment of whatever and get out. We not hodling on here its simply a tool 

Get in get out private sells or purchase not hodl  

 I guess if you're immediately exchanging it's not that bad, lessoning the chance of getting rugged. 

 💯 

 Cashu = better privacy for custodial wallets 

 Mutiny was talking about letting you add any mints you want, then if someone pays you from a mint you don't trust, just immediately swap it to one you do trust (could be your own).

Might also be able to operate as an offline backup in areas with unreliable Internet 

 I view as a better way to onboard people from 0. No fees, channels, or waits. When they’re ready they can move to lightning, etc. 

 perfect privacy infinitely scalable interoperable with lightning 

 It's cool because its like WoS but open protocol, you get an LN address, and you can choose in wich mints you trust, and you can send cashu offline or in a text. So yes it's just custodial LN with some extra feats. The potential to get rugged is in every custodial, maybe some shaddy mints are more likely or likely to shutdown than WoS but it's just a matter of choice. Non-custodial LN is though, expensive, most don't have LN address.  

 Good luck 🍀 

 NOSTR NATIVES NEED NUTS

CASHU ECASH LETS NEW USERS IMMEDIATLEY RECEIVE AND SEND ZAPS WITHOUT EMAIL OR PERSONAL IDENTIFYING INFORMATION

SELF CUSTODIAL LIGHTNING WALLETS REQUIRE MINIMUM CHANNELS THAT ARE REALLY BIG COMPARED TO SIZE OF ZAPS NEW USERS HAVE

SAVING ZAPS IN NUTS IS THE WAY NOSTR NATIVES WILL WORK THEIR WAY DOWN THE CHAIN. 

USING @Minibits + AMETHYST ALLOWS FOR SEAMLESS RECEIVING/SENDING OF ZAPS VIA ITS LN ECASH BRIDGE

CASHU ECASH IS HOW I ESCAPED WOS & ALBY FOR NOSTR

 

 What the heck is cashu? Everyone is talking about it?? 

 It's a layer 3 on top of lightning that adds an extra layer of privacy. 

 Basically your receive actual tokens and the p2p transaction is not recorded on the blockchain. Once you receive tokens, you record the transaction on the blockchain. But how do you actually use this thing?? Through cashu.me? 

 The first thing useful for a layer beyond lighting  

 Its lightning for beginners.  Way better than Alby and Wallet of Satoshi in terms of privacy.  If you're starting with 0 Sats and no knowledge on how Lightning works then it makes sense since you have no ability to open channels.  Privacy is also much better than popular wallets like Phoneix.  I'd love to see everyone running their own Lightning node (Zeus, LND, Blixt) but this probably won't happen due to complexity.  Also in a high fee environment Cashu has little to no fees to use.  Its definitely not for life savings, but can be a really good spending/nostr wallet 

 For majority of us lightning is enough even if LND is still in beta after 9 years 😆