Oddbean

If I can’t find your 30053 NNS note on one of my relays, then I can’t resolve your “Nostr DNS” — which means I can’t find the new IPs of new relays I want to connect to, forcing me to remain in a silo of whoever my relays are currently in-sync with. Therefore, this spec’ is so naive — like your premature file storage NIP. This NNS system only worsens the scaling problem of Nostr’s difficult-to-find relays. Throwing buzzwords at things isn’t scaling. I agree we should move away from Web2 URLs entirely, including relay URLs… but this isn’t the answer. There’s a better way.

> If I can’t find your 30053 NNS note on one of my relays, then I can’t resolve your “Nostr DNS”. We already have solutions for this because this is the same problem of finding ANY event that is not on the person's relay. What you are claiming is that Nostr doesn't work because you can't find events, yet we are all here and its working. Yep, we still need better solutions for indexing an event's host, but this can be solved at a broader level and directly benefit NNS's resolution. You think this proposal is naive. I think you are just overcomplicating things without any gain.

You’re missing the big picture. This siloes Nostr and breaks the outbox model. It makes connecting to new relays even harder than it already is by putting all the power into the relays you’re currently connected to. I don’t care to argue with you… you said we’d need 25M to build @HORNETS and we’re almost done. 🤡 Let the best ideas win. I’ll see you in Lativa and we’ll check-in then.

Let’s saying I’m connected to 7 relays and I want to connect to an 8th relay. If the 8th relay is using NNS, I now have to resolve this NNS to get its real IP. If the 7 relays I am connected to do not have the NNS note containing the IPs, then I cannot connect to the 8th relay. The 7 relays can also withhold the NNS note if they want to silo me. This allows the 7 relays to prevent data portability and free agency. Nodes should be thought of as untrustworthy — especially if it’s only a handful, like 7-15 relays. That’s too much power to give to a few server operators. I have a much better solution that doesn’t rely on trusting the small set of relays you’re connected to. It’ll be released before @thenostrworld

Your 8th has an address right? Let's say you want to connect with `naddr1abc`. As part of the `naddr` whoever sent you that link had to insert the `wss://ip4` as the `relay` field inside the naddr. This means that even if you have never seen this relay before, you have a base IP to connect and start the work. But keep in mind that NNS are designed to be broadcasted just like NIP-65 events are. They should be everywhere. But if they are not, you can always have a base IP from the latest relay hints in the events you already have.

Relay hints are a horrible foundation to rely on. Once again, we are just headed in seriously different directions. Good luck to you and your mutable world. nostr:note1jkwys58jphw3jggh2s4l86gqk3nku5s0mzvjaezux5jptkwpae9qglzq2h

Sure, you can ride a bike with a flat tire for however long you want. Eventually I’m going to get off the bike from being annoyed of the bumpy experience. I’m not claiming that this imperfect mess doesn’t work sometimes. I’m saying that we must scale it without these fragile foundations. I’m happy #nostr got started the way it did. But I hope you’re all ready to let go of these fragile foundations and scale to the stars. Looking forward to hearing your responses when we finally release. 🚀

🙏 We’re doing the best we can to make it as simple and modular as possible. It’ll be ready to read before the next nostr conference in Lativa @thenostrworld Hope you have time to check out the @HORNETS launch on the 4th of July in the meantime! We released the Scionic Merkle Trees last year on the 4th of July too. Freedom. 🦅