just on their github
what do you suppose this means?

it's not really a separate wallet, just with all the other support pulled out?

https://github.com/cypherstack/stack_duo?tab=readme-ov-file https://image.nostr.build/ab89bababbced94bde786d6320187c6d1fa791ab178c7dc501345157eae06994.jpg


curious about this.
does the mixture harden in the cold?

my cabin has poor climate controls 😂 and previous coconut oil based toothpastes I've made are pretty hard in the winter.
Its an advantage to all those stabilizers and shit they put in the store bought stuff.


what do you use other than Cake?


love Stack Duo


it's not acchually.
there are celibates who mature into true adults.
it's just having kids is a good way for people to stop thinking of themselves personally as the center of the universe.


Yeah
everybody needs cash money tho


it *is abandoned since the samourai arrest.

the repo used to be at
http://rk63tc3isr7so7ubl6q7kdxzzws7a7t6s467lbtw2ru3cwy6zu6w4jad.onion/fdroid/repo

it's a sad situation and considering going to Stack Duo instead/also.


He presented himself pretty well.
consistent and sounded honest.


I'll have to take your word for it.

Mysu has Moneroちゃん though so no contest.


gonna say it again

monero[.]com is a stupid name for a wallet


Does TJ carry a dip without seed oils???


Does TJ carry a dog without seed oils???


sorry
didn't realize you were a man a taste and decency


sorry
too many big words

NGU maxis suck regulator cock

better?


How had I never used cakepay.com before?

Create an invoice for the gift certificate you need of the amount necessary.
Pay it with monero.
Receive gift certificate to Simplelogin alias.
Spend at your favorite store.

The whole process took 10 minutes (3? confs before they send the gift cert).
I probably wouldn't do it for daily stuff
but for those times you REALLY want to spend your XMR or BTC at some fiat-only merchant 👍


still nursing coffee over here.
thanks for the kick in the pants.


I have never heard of this


there are certainly other tradeoffs monero makes that are different than bitcoin.

supply auditability is generally the other big critique. because of the obfuscated txs users have to trust additional cryptography to ensure supply. you can't just add up the utxo set because you cant see the amounts.


A max supply isn't necessary or desirable. Predictable monetary policy is.
for example, gold has been a fine store a value for the history of humanity. moneros supply increase is lower than golds.

and 2, the fiat "value" of btc (ngu) is largely driven by institutional interest. If speculative interest by fiat degens is a requirement to NOT be a shitcoin thenI am happy that monero is one.


sorry 😕


have fun seeking approval from rent seekers for your fiat gainz


in your exhaustive research, what properties of monero make you conclude it was shitty?


+1

Sarah's soap is the best


zap.stream requires JavaScript JIT 😡


hmm.
browser doesn't like the zap.stream link. it's totally blank.


yeah I have hosted miners instead since running an asic at home is not really an option.

i mean
you could get a 50x in your lifetime...
but otherwise the ROI is like 100 yrs


yeah forget it.
I live off grid and all my electricity is from solar. you're talking like 70k USD in infrastructure investment to just run a single S21.

but if you have the setup anyway and some computers lying around,
you might as well mine monero 😁


correct


I use Phoenix for when I need to use LN.
It's ok for my threat model.


On garnet you can set the tips to be either
completely private
announced on nostr (but not reveal sender)
or publicly known

so basically
unless the sender chose to do it publicly
you can't know.


pretty sure y'all aint gonna be "embracing irrelevence" any time soon.

after all you have a family to take care of,
gotta keep that engagement up


I installed it after their big update to try it out.

It did not just work and I couldn't be pissed to screw around with it


perfection


the hill I will die on

nostr:nevent1qqsvglmyn442s4tkkejasne05kqzm02exyakeetg7fmv5ef2lyns42qprdmhxue69uhkummnw3ezuur0wf6x2mt0dejhymewvdhk6q3qlxzaxzge0jq9u9cecucctdt5lslwgp7hcxmp2l0wn8r2ecjenwasxpqqqqqqzrclg2u


It's extremely different when ONE metadata leak in the future can dox the entire transaction graph.

Default privacy.
There is no substitute.


yes you can still do zaps


oh sorry
we don't talk about legally dodgy privacy technology here 😮💨


no Silent Payments on BDK


maybe we'll still see it if the legal system operates as it should


Planned to implement Whirlpool too. very credible


have fun y'all ❤


oh X?? that was a good one of Marty's 🤣


appreciate the thought.
you can send monero if you use the Garnet fork if Amythyst.

but I don't f with custodial wallets.


I have fucked around with computer since the beginning of time and have never owned an Apple product.


do it every day for one year

last day, don't return the sats and burn the npub 😵


jfc

it's like he's determined to wear down reality by repeating the most idiotic fud over and over and over
nostr:nevent1qqsqm68jyjr6tpm695wfrw0m008pf8p4x44k60u37l43cmvz8nkyvtspr3mhxue69uhkummnw3ezucnfw33k76twv4ezuum0vd5kzmqzyqsc8628tpyp6rcjf77e83tve2j9ulj5tnht34fgfrucy5l5j7uh2qcyqqqqqqgqtw8wx


cool

here's the CEO going on a monero podcast and explaining that they have NO determinisic tool for monero txs.

but you already knew that didnt you?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w5rtd3md11g


your arguments against monero are perposterous.

but that would be cool


I use Kagi. Just bc I don't want to selfhost another thing.

Concerns are payment privacy and leaking your ip. but if you pay in obfuscated btc and use a vpn it should be ok for most threat models.


Tucker is apparently a state asset.
Fudding good privacy solutions is standard glowie shit.

Controlled opposition?


+1

fudding signal is standard glowie shit


Tucker is fudding good privacy solutions and saying people shouldn't use bitcoin?

sounds like a glowie to me


yeah good call


I live off-grid in the sticks

which is great and everything
but I need to be able to call someone if I drop a tree on myself


yeah
TMobile signal is pretty bad to nonexistent where I live 🫤


whose infrastructure do they ride on?


Andy says they DID intend to come out with ProtonWallet supporting coinjoin.
But they dropped it because of legal concerns.

Really seems like Proton is a positive actor in the privacy space .

nostr:nevent1qqsp8urqajwwgqjmye2l27luhut9q0sp7cmg4a6epyvke9yqdmumd0cpr3mhxue69uhkummnw3ezucnfw33k76twv4ezuum0vd5kzmqzyruct5cfr97gqhshr8rnrpd4wn7raeq86lqmv9taa6vudt8ztxdmkqcyqqqqqqgw4dql0


Such a nice young man
nostr:nevent1qqsfhhq57n9zd6zz9w767j2mwftv8cne502h5tjse3muyc73w4la2cqpr3mhxue69uhkummnw3ezucnfw33k76twv4ezuum0vd5kzmqzyp8t3qcs666wm9wx6e4rjkea8n64nwzl4my0w6ga4l2qt2fwq4wk6qcyqqqqqqgmdax2c


Depends on the crowd
down there in Mendo you're probably talking to retirees?

just explaining "a digital asset" is probably a good starting point.
then if they continue to be interested you can get into online value transfer.

that would be my MO anyway


this is not the way.
Being alive requires maintanence and work. you have to provide value for others.

sure maybe you can find a spot where you can get paid for doing nothing.
that will dry up and blow away. then you leave having wasted your time producing nothing and learning nothing.

nostr:nevent1qqswvcvfnpvpk8eddxpc4sama67849d35nkp285j25fxpjnreaze7mcpr3mhxue69uhkummnw3ezucnfw33k76twv4ezuum0vd5kzmqzypert329ztpgjx9ymjcdg74ysuylam6uf0j9ap04vukdcj56x258zqcyqqqqqqgglgh0y


if you have some reason it's not good to use we'd love to hear it.


This is a good list.

just an edit
rather than "opaque supply" I'd suggest something like
"further trust in cryptographic primitives to guarantee supply"

doesn't quite roll of the tongue tho 🤣


dude bro
even this shit is addicting

and not in a good way


LFG
nostr:nevent1qqsg94uud8msrpuqsktjl2dwgcjqu3xsdjsdvx6r80qkg0lr6zhptdcpz4mhxue69uhkummnw3ezu7rdwgh8ymmrddesygz8g3szf3lmg9j80mg5dlmkt24uvmsjwmht93svvpv5ws96gk0ltvpsgqqqqqqs8y7f66


ok.

the transparency of BTC doesn't do anything to prevent the state from moving money around.
and they can seize your shit whenever they want. as long as they have a monopoly on force it won't matter in many cases who holds they keys.

but its as you say, good to have publicly verifyable ownership at this stage.


if the price is just >0, how are miners incentivized to secure the network?

also re mining it seems inadvisable to continue to do sha256
since hash is likely to be negligable, the network would be trivial to attack
and with no confidence nobody would use the network
and since nobody is using the network it isnt private

maybe its a question of details
wherea would be price end up?
exactly what privacy preserving techniques?
etc

but basically
id say a private version of btc does not make *good enough* tradeoffs to disrupt xmr and zec


found the statist


if people kill other people in private
why should I get upset about it?

I mean
its happening all the time

seems like a weird hill to die on


WINNING

nostr:nevent1qqstwydejgfpde4uk9d5qec5cndef8eghze5ttnyncxcupwflplpgegpr3mhxue69uhkummnw3ezucnfw33k76twv4ezuum0vd5kzmqzyr25zk3385uyv8le82xpwru5rvkdffn2tn7mkzf5q6tq7m9nz7zf7qcyqqqqqqgps6wjz


+1 for Kagi

love it
pay with LN


but obv you dont take particular care that it doesn't touch the internet?


this video is now officially a classic

I wish there was another with more Command and Conquer vibes though
nostr:nevent1qqsze4kfe5rx5sqnehezd26f27m2dspn5jdja03t4vfjk5jrmucs9ecpr3mhxue69uhkummnw3ezucnfw33k76twv4ezuum0vd5kzmqzyp8t3qcs666wm9wx6e4rjkea8n64nwzl4my0w6ga4l2qt2fwq4wk6qcyqqqqqqgkfupry


New Opt Out with Seth just dropped

He's interviewing Andy Yen, CEO of Proton about the new wallet.

I had a problem downloading it in Antennapod but seems to be live on the site

https://optoutpod.com/episodes/protonwallet-andy-yen/


oh shit
I use the same themes on my box

and Librewolf!

this has been lowkey bothering me for like a year


damn
congratulations


literally the next note on my feed after this one

nostr:nevent1qqsdhdmrch6fz6q8xzwug24kdr6m4fj459kz9cmm64egmapq55uz58gpr3mhxue69uhkummnw3ezucnfw33k76twv4ezuum0vd5kzmqzyp8t3qcs666wm9wx6e4rjkea8n64nwzl4my0w6ga4l2qt2fwq4wk6qcyqqqqqqga4qfhj


logseq is cool
but standard notes is easy to setup and anyone can use it


this one makes me hot everytime it comes around 😍


and there was much rejoicing

down with nanopool! https://image.nostr.build/48635672071a27061b36c5b1cabb92f81989ae08441735c3c8fc09424706d560.jpg


whats your procedure for confirming your cold storage? how many people keep an old laptop or partition around just to throw a clean linux distro onto?

then what wallet and how do you access it?
then how do you connect to your node?


and for some reason effort is up over 150%

its really weird how short-term variable everything can be


the fee market will develop into a sustainable source of income for miners any day now


inquiring minds want to know...

nostr:nevent1qqsvnwcncyrnddt3w56pelk835tfwswxcp5426xluls67zulshqvzmcpr3mhxue69uhkummnw3ezucnfw33k76twv4ezuum0vd5kzmqzypaua4mxmth3vfhnccmnqudjflsfee7z263algq9dsezv3e4s4s2xqcyqqqqqqgpgyfu2


yeah there was a block on mini that was over 600% effort
almost 3 days without a block...

but yeah, shares have been good lately


finally
jfc
 https://image.nostr.build/bdd7a9718fb1842d1ea36d7691f0185b06a701bee0e73d2a4556a2bbf5c600cf.jpg


beat you

but yours was a better answer


for mailing?
envelope, bubble wrap, scratch paper and tape


cant touch this


nice


anyone have an opinion on running p2pool on a VPS vs running it locally?
I mean
I have nodes out in the world also, it doesn't seem like a big ask to just run it out there right?
all the miners are on the same LAN or can tailscale here.
could get a few more hashes out of the machine that runs the p2pool and node.

probably doesn't make much of a difference.


I got a couple I'm willing to let go
authentic coffee stains included


hfsp really just means
"I will be able to buy and sell you in the future"
its arrogance, smug self-righteousness and being convinced of ones own intelligence.

pretty sad when you think about it


facts


bitcoin "dominance" is just an index of relative speculation

its mostly showing you how fiat degens are moving USD around.


wtf is this guys deal?

he seems not stupid but shows up every few months to push the most retarded takes
and seems super convinced by them


fuck you i won't do what you tell me


what kinda wood is that?

be careful


this what happens when I have to go into town 😂


look

I'm not giving out my SSN
I'm not driving a internet-connected car
I'm not filling out a "short survey"
I'm not buying a SIM from a telecommunications company
I'm not buying KYCed Bitcoin or Monero
I'm not using the AI chatbot for "greater productivity "
I'm not getting excited about my fiat net worth
I'm not obeying the "no firearms allowed" sign
I'm not taking the drugs
I'm not watching the woke bullshit

fuck you
I won't do what you tell me


lol your "hoping he sees the light"
get over yourself

nostr:nevent1qqsw3hu9gyajqgsrsjrp662amjmq7hyj3lflwuxefnjv3jalzrfynagpr3mhxue69uhkummnw3ezucnfw33k76twv4ezuum0vd5kzmqzyqt0rgqsp4x0l77vggcw3c8y9yxvtpyurtwxf4n98ldq0sp3kyr5kqcyqqqqqqgvca2lc


No.
I provided a informational video rather then type a bunch of shit out.

Quite different than your use of a satoshi quote to make outright dismissal without any debate sound cool


Satoshi said it dude. You're just quoting it out of acute self-righteoussness and appeal to authority.

And the follow up with a suoer defensive "ackqually I do real cypherpunk shit"

Now.
More Michael Saylor normie hodlers means more ass kissing to tradfi and seeking approval from the legacy system.
The legacy system WILL NOT ACCEPT bitcoin as censorship' resistant.
For example
Heres Andreas on why bitcoin ETFs are a bad idea. He says a lot in a few minutes, as always.

I'm all for new users and increased purchasing power. But NOT institutions aligned with tradfi or custodians.

You new bitcoiners who think any and all raw adoption is a net benefit do NOT recognize ro downplay the danger of regulatory capture of the network. Which is already happening.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KSv0J4bfBCc


this was possibly the best WBD.
lightyears ahead of any other pod on this topic too. except maybe Max/UM.

nostr:nevent1qqsqw2f25wwwqenmq3qvsqk0pz9raxr9tjse8mkzq9vzexce35yrgjqpr3mhxue69uhkummnw3ezucnfw33k76twv4ezuum0vd5kzmqzyznqu70qakk4zqxh2sakd8j38k7pcgtsar5mwn7m36t34lg7pe5pxqcyqqqqqqgje5w4p


look friends

NGU == censorship resistance

its so simple. how could anyone not understand this simple formula...

no I cant explain it to you 😂
nostr:nevent1qqsw3hu9gyajqgsrsjrp662amjmq7hyj3lflwuxefnjv3jalzrfynagpr3mhxue69uhkummnw3ezucnfw33k76twv4ezuum0vd5kzmqzyqt0rgqsp4x0l77vggcw3c8y9yxvtpyurtwxf4n98ldq0sp3kyr5kqcyqqqqqqgvca2lc


tell me you read "the bitcoin standard" and stopped there without telling me...


you're just repeating stuff you've read online.

there is no direct corollation between NGU and censorship resistance.
one metric is a fiat measurement of buying power. largely driven by speculative investment by degens.

the other metric is a complex matrix of technical and social factors. many of those factors are *against* censorship resistance when number goes up.

Sorry
nuanced argument on social media.
won't happen again.


I mean
Saylor straight up says in the interview that there's no way adoption will happen if Bitcoin pursues strong privacy.

You think power structures will allow it to happen AFTER they are heavily invested?
We could hardly get Segwit. You think you're going to get Blackrock consensus on a hard fork to allow full chain membership proofs?


Like gold can't be a SoV?
because of supply inflation?

Moneros supply increases at a lower rate than golds.

Might want to rethink this champ.


I'll take "Things that will never happen" for $400 Alex.


+1

NGU "Bitcoiners" only want increased purchasing power and will sell out bitcoins censorship resistance to get it.

they are misguided idiots.


if you clean the floor the whole room just looks cleaner


this is some bullshit right here lol


what did we do with the hashtags?


👍 https://image.nostr.build/65bd5d9ed08944c423351992dafd953a8410482e56789c72c78fd8fd06b5732e.jpg


I'm dumb?
For not jumping between three different networks and using a broken CJ implementation?

And instead I just use p2p cash that just works?

So whats the smart move?


nope


pretty sure they're not using one of those.

these 60fps e-ink displays are pretty new I think


stfu

the VAST majority of people are using LN in a custodial, permissioned way.

If they're gaining *any privacy
which is highly debatable as the network has barely been stress tested
it's the SAME financial privacy I get from a bank.

so gtfo with your bullshit disingenuous "bitcoin fixed privacy" line


glowie says what?

"hello fellow kids. Proton is surely a CIA honeypot amirite? haha."

nostr:nevent1qqsd0umm0whhzf75f7sx34vm9uzpscn368lz24wkfxpxtr9pzqt9jeqpr3mhxue69uhkummnw3ezucnfw33k76twv4ezuum0vd5kzmqzyqsc8628tpyp6rcjf77e83tve2j9ulj5tnht34fgfrucy5l5j7uh2qcyqqqqqqgs3c2fd


homie dropped this (pretty good) video
its mostly about the weaknesses in ring sigs.

its reasonable criticism and clearly explains why monero is moving to FCMP.

super testnet is still acting in bad faith.
shilling LN as a privacy solution is glowie shit.


about time that dude said something


heres a very long (and mostly boring and unrelated) pod where Luke discusses it.
think it starts around 3:30

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hXy6IoZjqQM


you literally just said that using a coinjoin service that's been unwound (JM is NOT a zerolink implementation) and swapping between THREE different networks

is a viable solution to privacy.
get a grip.


If LN is private
its because nobody is fucking looking.
yet.

you're talking like LN is a privacy solution when receiver privacy is shit and has been forever.
sender privacy is complicated.
the network is so centralized theres the risk your routing nodes can identify users sends.

and you're dissing monero?
for publishing a stealth address on chain??
which isnt "where the coins go" as you keep lying to people.

LN is a brand new, untested Rube Goldberg machine.
Its cool and I dig it.

But you're lying to people when you try and sell it as strong privacy for digital exchange.


ring signature's are the weakest part of moneros privacy.
sends are signed with a "ring" of 16 signatures. one is the real spend, the other 15 are decoys.

obviously it is less than great to publish the real spend on chain, even if there is ZERO way anyone can tell which one it is.

The Full Chain Membership Proofs (FCMP) monero ia moving towards is a more complicated signature
but instead of one of 16, it would be one of *all the outputs that exist*
A big jump in privacy.

The Zcash shielded pool works in a similar way. Ring sigs are what Zcasher fud when they dis monero.

Ring sigs are ok and have worked pretty well.
But FCMP is the holy grail for sender privacy.


basically a rounding error that effects almost nobody.

you audit the gettxsetoutinfo code yourself?
or do you TRUST the comminity to do it for you?

and why would you then refuse to trust other code (that you probably haven't audited either) that guarantees supply on monero?


Snowden has certainly said he uses monero.

And it should be obvious to most adult humans why he wouldn't talk about it during a keynote at bitcoin'24


its true.

Matthre is this type of guy.


it would be a hard fork and nobody will agree with that.

also the monero communitt wants to get rid of ring signatures and instead of a ring of 16 signing,
it would be a proof that the spend exists, but it could be ANY output on the chain.


this is cope.

he's a malignant narcissist and doesn't give a shit about you or anyone else.
hes not trying to encourage freedom and prevent rhe surveillance state.

he's negotiating for a larger piece of the pie for himself and nothing else.


monero is an extremely well battletested protocol that is similar to bitcoin
but makes certain different tradeoffs.

notably:
tail emission
privacy features that effect auditability

it's up to everyone individually to learn about it and decide if the tradeoffs make sense.
or not.


liquid doesn't hide the sender or receiver.
also the monero supply is audited with every block. you just can't sum uo the amounts yourself.
not that anyone actually ever does this on bitcoin anyway.

also this method of achieving privacy is NOT recommended as it is very vulnerable to *timing attacks.*
every year some hacker or dnm admin gets popped becasue they thought they could just flip into xmr and back out and nobody would knowsl.

it is far far better to just keep a stack of xmr you use for transacting and periodically top it up.


I was pointing out RFK actually sounds like a Bitcoiner.

vs DJT
who's just a bullshit artist


and if you had one,
youd realize nobody pursuing the job cares about you or the things you think are important

they are sociopaths. don't encourage them.


bullshit. and so disingenuous.

so lets get this straight
you're claiming there's some determalistic (or even some general probabilist method) that undermines monero privacy?

Like, the adversity has 1/16th of a chance of correctly guessing the social graph over 1 transaction.
1/256th over 2tx hops
1/4096th over 3 etc

and *even if you have additional information to identify the movement of an output in a tx, its broken over any previous/successive hops because a NEW doffie-helman exchange is made.

so what's your fucking problem?


this dude blocks everyone who can explain why this is a dumb thing to say

classic cultist

nostr:nevent1qqsrzgztddazmy0qzhut4t0p4qynjax9lzv5qtyrs76yw7zvyeckgsqpr3mhxue69uhkummnw3ezucnfw33k76twv4ezuum0vd5kzmqzypzlr9w0ljuvjujwlsjg7pg85taktdtem7470nf48xzes93u4dmzwqcyqqqqqqge6y25a


....

radio?


boating accidents don't work on a transparent ledger


HAVE A GOOD TIME WITH YOUR BITCOIN AND YOUR CRYPTO AND EVERYTHING ELSE YOU'RE PLAYING WITH


you literally had RFK make an intelligent case one day ago.
and at least he has a brain and isnt just a bullshit artist.


bunch of bullshit rambling to pacify children.

he's not only an idiot, hes lazy.
RFK might be a politician but at least he can sell his audience with style.


The address published on the chain relates to absolutely nothing anywhere.

You are being deliberately deceptive. bad super testnet.


online payments are very bad for your privacy

transact with shiny metals IRL
nostr:nevent1qqstk3mhagq7ta4ja4qe0s6p7wmlkm629e080aenrjj0s7xlkf3k3sqpzdmhxue69uhhyetvv9ukzcnvv5hx7un8qgsgwucgya472r8fhta8uh3hfe8uha0fskdzryv0xjawl5qqw34h6dgrqsqqqqqpzlvx25


you'll never know because you mute everyone who says things that don't agree with your viewpoint


why are you lying to people?

the recipients "address" is just a key negotiate a diffie-helman exchange. appears nowhere else and relates to nothing.

and yeah, thats how ring sigs work. you publish 16 possible senders, one being the true spend.
its looking like we will get full chain proofs in a year or two.

and what exactly is the problem with knowing the fee paid for a tx when you can't differentiate any tx on the chain?

pretty sad disingenuous posting


yeah probably.
but there are degrees of narcissism and psychopathy.

DJT is normalizing a fairly extreme case


facts

actually listened to RFKs speech and damn
he sounds like a Bitcoiner

boomer Bitcoiner but still
impressed

he even seemed to shout out Samourai,
which
if anything could get me to vote...
probably that.


DJT getting shot won't make him any less of a malignant narcissistic asshole.

He doesn't care about you and isn't interested in the things that matter to you.


exactly why is it desirable for the Federal government to be hodling?
America as the cleanest dirty shirt?


A bitcoin strategic reserve is a terrible idea
but it'd be cool to have a Bitcoiner president.


ok listened to the speech.

I'm still against the strategic reserve bit
but i see why you're excited.


Holy shit

did RFK shout out Samourai?

Youtube speech 14:32ish

"As your president, fight to ensure your right to self-custody, run nodes in your home and

TO STOP THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT FROM USURPING THE 1ST AMENDMENT RIGHTS TO OPEN SOURCE, PRIVACY ENHANCING TECHNOLOGIES"

woah. impressive.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ssYCRVpzcxc


oh gotcha
its about price.

Yes I ABSOLUTELY prefer they sell the bitcoin they stole from people.

politicians are not going to save you
the best thing they can do is leave it alone


like a little bitch


The only frustrating thing is you refusing to have a discussion in good faith.

Go back to twitter where you can build your little echo chamber of unchallenged FUD


The idea here is
by embracing delisting and acclimating to operating *outside* the tradfi area
see: DEXs, p2p markets, circular economies etc
monero gets a headstart on actual grassroots usage
and relatedly
develops immunity to manipulation by 3rd parties.

otoh, BTC
by embracing adoption by tradfi
actually weakens its censorship resistance

true or not...? its a matter of perspective.
but basically true I think.


making assumptions you're talking about something you don't know.

pretty obvious https://image.nostr.build/a12be22badd9a2cf7f55468054819cc97307345b2a14f27d6867af837b4cf84f.jpg


accuse people of spouting half truths

when refuted refuse to respond and tell them to go away
classic maxi cultist.

nostr:nevent1qqs9mkt6nq5k5kep00xl3el5qmmff763ta47k2djhlx3qsh0lkyu7lqpr3mhxue69uhkummnw3ezucnfw33k76twv4ezuum0vd5kzmqzypm0t9sd8q08z34h7d62ffj6lfqrqwzyrdrfxwzqcu0yxmavhq4wwqcyqqqqqqghxnkh0


Homie
you made a couple of (incorrect) assertions in your OP.
I refuted them.

I'm sorry you can't cope with that.


hang on

he said he'd pardon Snowden and Ross?


they could just not tax it.
that would be staying out of the way.

imagine thinking a strategic reserve made from other peoples confiscated property is the best possible bitcoin policy.


we're hoping to get rid of it in the next year or two...


AHEM

they are going to map the entire utxo set and correlate it with existent KYC/AML info and data leaks.
People seeking financial privacy will stand out and be realitively easily targeted.

cheering powerful players to get heavily involved in bitcoin is inviting them to use their power,
not on bitcoin directly
but on bitcoiners.

It is not a very good idea. Everyone underestimates how terrible "then they fight you" is.
Be prepared and learn to think adversarially.
The only reason any of these tools exist in the first place is because other people did.


Well we sure as hell don't have to support candidates who promote policies DIRECTLY against our best interests.

It is obviously not in our best interest for the US Federal govt to get involved in bitcoin.


The Middle Way is just doing whatever the fuck you need to and dealing with the problems come up.


If you're anti-state
why would you want the US govt to hold 4m BTC?
It makes no sense. I want them to go away and be LESS powerful.

If they get into bitcoin they will dk *whatever they can to leverage their capture of legacy finance to exert pressure on the bitcoin network.

Inviting them in is stupid


quite a word salad to just say
"i have no use for real privacy and embrace surveillance"


You were talking about *Liquid
which is a fucking ghost town

and no
you don't have to stress about ip leaks due to Dandelion++. txs get passed around before broadcast.

and there's a much higher chance you're talking to a fed if you're unloading BTC than XMR. theres nothing illegal about buying/selling XMR.
it is extremely illegal to avoid taxes.

so
none of those things are bigger problems on monero than they are on bitcoin.

and liquid solves nothing.


neither of you get bitcoin
much less monero

if you think liquid is a reasonable solution for privacy.


except nobody uses fucking liquid
and nobody accepts it.

So you're hiding in an anon set of like 10 daily users,
rather than ten thousand.

there nothing sus about running a monero node
or any monero wallet
or desperate about any monero user.

quit criminalizing privacy.


i dunno bro
15k txs/day is pretty good

also, what "huge risks that you're going to be ok?"


kyc bitcoin is a shitcoin


"it offers great privacy that is ruined by BTCs complete lack of privacy"
isn't the flex you seem to think


nobody who understands bitcoin and monero has beef with either.

Maybe you prefer the tradeoffs of one or another, but its hard to make a principled argument against either.

@utxo certainly hasn't.


flatiron and duck eggs https://image.nostr.build/8f97adedf25699433a00753c04b1d4da7bd8e22d38f27303480082daeaab25c3.jpg


Every year maxitards claim some new tech is going to enable strong privacy on bitcoin.
Every year surveillance of the chain grows.

Congratulations on contributing to bitcoins dwindling censorship resistance by dismissing the problem.


All of the control by authoritarians is exercised via coercion, which, as you mention, is enabled by surveillance, but they have not corrupted bitcoin itself. Reducing the surveillance exposure remains a top priority for our generation.


lol

"i don't know or care that lack of privacy erodes censorship resistance"

have fun being fiat rich.


I'm thinking future .
"Blackrock Coin" etc


TBD

so far the US financial system is excellent at getting its way everywhere in the world.

And if theres a race to control BTC between the US and China
it'd be interesting
but basically end up in two bifurcated and highly surveiled systems.

not a world I want to live in.

which is why I'm out here talking about privacy 😕


Yeah Id love to see some audits.

Keychat is an interesting application of ecash and it makes sense seeing it in that application. I like the nostr routing too, could be pretty robust and reliable depending how clogged up things get when/if adoption increases.
But yeah, just fun for now.

Tor routed XMPP w/OTR for the win.


but you could share your npub as a permanent contact string?


not another fucking chat app
le sigh

sure wish we had the same wealth of coinjoin implementation as we do private messengers.
easier to monetize business model too... https://image.nostr.build/469fd667c167dfc0de9e45315940ee5e5ed0339631a21b34cb01d34075630e7c.jpg


fair enough.
it's a question of priority.

bitcoin has prioritized normie adoption.
as a result, fiat tradfi people are going to exert whatever leverage they can on the network *in its current state*

(maybe we'll see institutional fork wars but whatever, useless to speculate.)

but the point is re priority,
bitcoin is cool but not perfect.
are we sure that the network *in its current state* is effectively censorship resistant?
since we're already inviting in the most greedy unethical people on the planet?


nono

it's proof of how smart they are.
really.


also
please stop talking about Michael Saylors testicles

its weird.


bitches gotta realize

having a bunch of normie and tradfi fiat maxis coming into your network
is not a good idea for long term health.


this is just
"i don't know/care that privacy is necessary for censorship resistance"

bitcoin has no privacy
or worse, questionable privacy solutions

and its a big fucking problem.

nostr:nevent1qqsq9629ql2u6wd9nes0w36xvsm4gmhjfcysl03jc245ltufzn7lutgpr3mhxue69uhkummnw3ezucnfw33k76twv4ezuum0vd5kzmqzyr3vea70ypqr70e2ff2mx28smca78p2c5l2lxd3jlk4wl3exc8ywkqcyqqqqqqgnl423l


no.

bitcoin price (and all commodity prices) are mostly measurement of speculative interest and shouldn't be baseline for anything.

obv theres more speculative interest in BTC.
that makes me LESS inclined to take it seriously, not more


oh please
monero has stable consistent monetary policy. that isn't "infinite supply"

it stores value fine. it's just probably never going to get tradfi degens pumping it up like bitcoin.
feature not a bug.


No.

My monero stack is up an average of 250%
sure my BTC stack has done better.

but not so much Im upset about it.

monero stores value fine.


uh

collaborative txs, coinjoins, and join market all mean the same thing.
There is no zerolink coinjoin operational at the moment.

Ark is an ecash.
Ecash is custodial.

LN privacy is complicated. Its possible to have decent privacy if you run your own infrastructure. Maybe this is getting easier...?

So no
none of those things actually solve the privacy problem at the moment.

Certainly none of them do what monero does.


yawn
nice talking to you son

make a legit point or gtfo


son
ive been in bitcoin since you were a sparkle in your dads eye

you cant even parse "relative speculative investment" correctly.

so don't kid yourself.


correct


ok bro
cool cool

have fun being fiat rich


if you say so,
but not according to the graph you shared


I haven't got into the issuance math recently,
but it sure looks to me that those lines switch around 2040.

or 16 years from now.


this is a correct opinion 👍

not sure about thst 40 year figure though, might want to double check


it's not a fork because it's a completely different codebase.


jfc
you people

that chart is a graph of the relative valuation of XMR and BTC

AS MEASURED IN US DOLLARS.

it is a graph of relative USD-denominated speculative investment and nothing else.

I'll agree it's not an irrelevant metric,
but it don't mean what y'all think it does.

certainly not some mic drop shit
so get the fuck over it already.


All Bitcoiners hate fiat,
until they think they can score points on social media by waving around a fiat-denominated chart.

do better.


monero has steadily increased in purchasing power.
the fact thst a bunch of degen tradfi VCs have pumped your bitcoin bags MORE means exactly jack shit.


Dude
"miners can refuse to mine a tx so its like liquid"
is fucking retarded.
Its not remotely similar.

If its LIKE anything else
because there are miners who could refuse to mine a tx,
its like bitcoin.

Except not at all,
because UNLIKE BITCOIN txs are obfuscated,
so its impossible to differentiate between txs and refuse to mine a particular one.

So no,
not happening.
Its a dumb critique.

There are alwaus tradeoffs, that's true.

You just don't know what they are.


thats quite a word salad to just say
"i don't know what cryptographic primitives are"


Point out to a maxi that they *already are trusting cryptography,
and they'll tell you you're using the word "trust" wrong 🙄

nostr:nevent1qqsrce0s3ngwpm83snaps24wkk53ncc8ag3jr02llzts2mv3mua3z5qpr3mhxue69uhkummnw3ezucnfw33k76twv4ezuum0vd5kzmqzyr226wmwatl38lsvetyx6g55qjte3t3w89medtd9hccevkfw2m32wqcyqqqqqqgmuurul


No


play stupid games
win stupid prizes


anybody who isn't fervently Catholic about the heresy of moving value on other chains is already excommunicated by you numbskulls

it doesn't matter how reasoned or nuanced


wow
congratulations on the most blasé and devoid of meaning response possible to a nuanced critique


you will when the taxman comes

nostr:nevent1qqsp25e9aztf2d2qqampuyaf53xxjrufs0g9vc6lxs8g5pn27s4h7nspr3mhxue69uhkummnw3ezucnfw33k76twv4ezuum0vd5kzmqzyp8t3qcs666wm9wx6e4rjkea8n64nwzl4my0w6ga4l2qt2fwq4wk6qcyqqqqqqgf6qzmw


counterpoint
you ALREADY trust cryptography to ensure you have the only spend key to a utxo
(assuming you haven't personally audited the code here)

why are you racist against another cryptographic primitive that guarantees the amount
but without revealing it?


The downsides are
smaller network effect
less energy securing the network
and
trusting additional cryptographic primitives that guarantee supply.


lol cya


sure
whatever.
nodes don't care.

its still not fungible in real life.
de facto nonfungible.

so let's all go ahead
get over the fact
and move on

bitcoin does NOT have all the properties of money
it's probably never going to have strong privacy
and its a big fucking problem


jfc
don't people have anything better to do?


fucking rare sats 🙄


no cap?

they were somehow brute forcing privkeys?
how did flooding txs steal xmr?
which DNM was the target?


the point is that it is possible to differentiate between utxos of the same 'value'

IOW, 'value' is not the only characteristic of a new utxo.
Because the ledger is transparent, 'history' is also communicated.

And because their 'history' is not the same, utxos of the same 'value' are nonfungible.
by definition.

yes and *then* people can make whatever decisions they want.

but we have decided that
"fungible"
means that units of equal size cannot be differentiated from each other.

and bitcoin is not that.


Large institutions ARE paying CA to avoid risky utxos.
its a huge business.


Hm?
Isnt theyre one on my profile?

Maybe you need Garnet to see it...


I have been looking into the Alby Hub thing...
But yeah, so far LN has definitely not been a legitimate privacy tool. Maybe the UX improving with sovereign nodes will change that.

or maybe ecash will.

but they haven't yet and every year the maxis are crowing about *something* that will do the job.
but there's just nothing so far except noise.

monero remains undefeated.


anyone with a block explorer and enough knowledge to follow the money.

they are going to map the entire utxo set using existing KYC/AML info and assign confidence scores to all of it

large institutions will pay CA to help them avoid tainted, risky utxos.


If LN is private it's only because nobody is looking (yet).
and its only sender privacy, we know receive privacy is nonexistent.

But you're really just giving up custody arent you??? Just recreate the fiat system online and trust the bank right? 😩


utxos with different histories are not fungible by definition.
they are NOT interchangeable units, they are distinguishable.


The XMR/USD chart is clearly trending upward. Its gaining value fine.
Personally bought in below $60 so pretty happy. Sure my BTC stack is up a more than 300% right now
but not so much more that I'm upset.

After all,
not greedy.

And the XMR/BTC chart is clearly holding fine.
That it used to be higher,
when a bunch of degens gambled on shitcoins in 2017,
means exactly fuckall.
This is a FIAT chart that mostly measures relative USD speculation.

I have been in both these coins for a long fucking time at this point
and I use monero over BTC because its better fucking money.

cope.


there's a meme for this.
but basically,

CJs are expensive,
utxos management is hard,
you need to be organized so you dont compromise whatever privacy you gain,
and
as of today,
without Whirlpool there are NO good CJ implementations active,
so it's not really an option anyway

So you could figure out a kludgey and expensive workaround,
study up on the CJ implementation so you really understand what kind of entropy you are gaining
and what foot guns are possible
etc

or you could
you know,
just use monero.


This is a good point.

When maxis say "rich" or "poor" they don't mean "abundance" or " able to enjoy some luxury "

they mean a higher or lower socioeconomic position *relative to themselves.*
So HFSP doesn't just mean "I'm sorry you won't reap the benefits of higher buying power"
it means "i will occupy a superior economic caste than you because you are an impure shitcoiner"

That's why it's an arrogant obnoxious thing to say. Reeks of smugness and the self-gratified pride of someone who needs their ass kicked.


Bitcoin boys are smart enough to value privacy but too stubborn to use monero

True libertarians I'll give you that

(actually not really. I think it's gay as shit)

nostr:nevent1qqs9sd6slp2rhxf08q3neufwk6wl96t529uuyxd5gpcazsmkfhwv0jqpr3mhxue69uhkummnw3ezucnfw33k76twv4ezuum0vd5kzmqzyr3vea70ypqr70e2ff2mx28smca78p2c5l2lxd3jlk4wl3exc8ywkqcyqqqqqqg923k2a


da fuck? all my utxos have cj history homie.

difference is,
my xmr doesn't need it.


THIS IS MY COMPOUND.


Monero txs are so cheap (usually less than .01 USD)  basically nobody worries about it.

There was an issue with some network flooding a few months ago where people who needed to get a tx in a block had to up their fee.
But that was the first Ive heard of any fee market in years.


what a monero block explorer looks like FYI

https://localmonero.co/blocks/


Monero has all the properties of money.
Bitcoin does not.

cope. https://image.nostr.build/986286384c78b0a0c0a91861139b7c72e24a8a8b414e1dad9e15d127f9e1125c.jpg


by default, not at all.

and bitcoin could possibly be as private as monero,
with a hard fork.

OR
we're left trying to do shit on L2s, which will always have serious drawbacks.

There is a extremely strong argument for compulsory privacy on L1.


if you had it setup I could zap this https://image.nostr.build/028199f95879cd31f6675023dc2d17d5d5897772373b674a780d2712af0898a6.jpg


Its not as interesting as mempool.space

since you can't see sender,receiver and amount.


You don't know what you're talking about and should be embarrassed.

for starters, 6 years ago monero was using a *different* hash algorithm and comparing it to the current hashrate is useless.
and if you had bothered to actually LOOK, you'd see the rate now is about 8x that number (not that its relevant).

The relevant number is when monero switched to randomx in Nov 2019 (less than 5 years ago). Since then the number has more than doubled.

Also,the buying power of monero has been extremely stable for 3-4 years. It is not particularly impressive that speculators and venture capital have pumped the BTC price more. Degens gonna degen.


highly regarded take

for one, the pegout is only required to swap back into BTC
and there isn't any of that necessity with monero

also
"a federation of 10-12 people is JUST like a worldwide distributed mining network" is extremely stupid


its just ridiculous to compare to liquid.

liquid is a permissioned sidechain with zero liquidity.

sacrificing sovereignty of your coins to hide in an anon set of (just over) zero,
is NOT the same as using digital p2p cash.


Monero doesn't require the federations permission to peg out.


just unable to tip


weird
worked that time


cant tip your npub however


cant zap you bro 😟


if "the game" is PoW medium of exchange digital cash
then it IS the same game.

but yeah,
there are mining tradeoffs with asic resistance


Proton suggesting Bitcoiners use coinjoin to achieve privacy is the best thing in a while.

but... 😞 https://image.nostr.build/56843d78f28bc1b6076474bdbb64fe7386e4da7601415059aeb9c2cce3b07124.jpg


yeah. down here we're chewing  fingernails for the next few months.


really??

i mean the code is out there right?
they're not going to gamble their reputation for... whatever the advantage would be...


cant zap you...?


you feed those to the reindeer


Its not factual at all.

you talk like "centralization" or not is some monolithic, easy to measure characteristic.
it's not.

There are ways Monero is LESS centralized than bitcoin.

so wtf are you saying is more centralized exactly?


fair enough. you didn't say "centralized"

you said its too much not decentralized like Bitcoin 😂

potato
potahto


Monero people are generally very straightforward about the tradeoffs.

The only reasonable criticism there is, is one you said, there just isn't that much energy securing XMR.
Tradeoffs.

That doesn't make it "centralized" however. That's just your random fud.
Monero is not centralized and it's a perfectly reasonable alternative to BTC and *certainly* better than the current state of LN .


Molly is sweet 👍


You can do it in standard notes 😎


I uninstalled Amethyst to use it.
I'm frequently using gossip on desktop anyway.

Its a fun thing to be able to do. So far not having OMG game changing vibes tho.


by killing a fucking cat?!


not fungible

utxos with different histories are nonfungible by definition.


client is still buggy and kludgey
but it's fun. the only thing that took a bit was wallet sync, while is totally unneccesary.

also not sure how the wallet does coin control. maybe if you do a bunch of sends to yourself you can zap one after another...?


thanks for the clarification.

How is it your Alby node doesn't cost you anything to run?
You can administer it yourself?


I don't know how this look makes me feel 😂


encouraging mass adoption by normies who won't self custody is bad for Bitcoin.

nostr:nevent1qqsydvwegwqyl2wmkfl2m4fz0ad67k0aufcjggl54l3asqlcwwj5ptgpr3mhxue69uhkummnw3ezucnfw33k76twv4ezuum0vd5kzmqzyzvq68axgcxczlz6xeqd4w670p398ykhlcq0y8f9d65kvx70dckqgqcyqqqqqqgmx79ee


GOAT
not enough people are watching him these days.


pretty sure that's just because his administration was off guard and generally incompetent.
but I agree, better than the alternatives.

after 4 years of being the kingmaker I'm sure they've got him ready for some seriously bad shit.

hope I'm wrong though.


punk ass


right.

iow, while technically possible, running a sovereign LN node is still a massive headache and potentially expensive in a high gee environment.

lets be honest with the people shall we?


that is pretty badass.

but he will sell you out the minute he gets the offer he wants.
sorry.


wth?? https://image.nostr.build/515fc59e0f4f64dca82b3d4cc4f25b40323364bd52ea57c69dcb7a9cdc45d205.jpg


zapping monero on Garnet via my own node > your custodial trusted bs


rofl we got #monero first https://image.nostr.build/433944a4170e79fb254bbb64b636139b0cb7a72754372b4c3def616d282f8d30.jpg


seems like it did!


also
for your edification
https://monero.stackexchange.com/questions/4562/how-does-the-dynamic-blocksize-and-the-dynamic-fees-work-together-in-monero


Nobody is suggesting huge blocks to solve (non existent) scaling problems. Do we really have to again talk about problems that don't exist yet on any chain?

moneros dynamic block size simply allows miners to temporarily add more txs than average to a block to deal with sudden inflows.

Its cool.
and yeah, it probably helps with some scaling problems but nobody said it allows mass adoption.


nah.
infinite divided by 21M is a stupid meme.

as if the supply inflation of gold over the last 2k years made it a poor store of value.

these maxis need to get a grip and stop just repeating stupid saifedean catchphrases.


tell me you don't understand dynamic block size without telling me you don't...


Its gonna need the pocket change feature...

you can't zap people in succession.


user does not have a wallet setup to accept tips???


I just sent value across nostr from my own wallet using my own node.

fully self sovereign zapping set up in minutes.

nothing to see here no doubt.


Like how exactly?
what about monero is shitty?


don't think so


Its counting down the last 100k blocks veeery slowly. like one a second.
weird since this is my LAN node.

have to zap you in a few hours. 😃


weird.
I just nuked amethyst


setting a custom block height just makes it resync from the beginning atm

but exciting!


also
mine wants to sync the entire chain directly after creating the wallet.
setting a custom restore height only seems to prompt a resync from the beginning.


yeah it won't install an "older" version.


having the wallet sync the entire chain after just being created is an interesting choice.


like how its been impossible to store value in gold for the last 2000 years because of supply inflation?


yeah because so many countries effectively resist exclusion from the US financial system 🙄


BTC is regulatory captured by established financial systems, the on/off ramps are gatekept and sovereign usage is practically impossible for normies, private BTC usage is slowly eroded and nobody cares.
therefore BTC just becomes just another asset managed and fractionally reserved on higher layers while sovereign usage is de facto criminalized.

It's pretty straightforward.


All this is, is just "NGU gud"

Any actual connection to Freedom is extremely tenuous.


no doubt their puppet masters will roll right over and sacrifice control of the financial system to a bunch of frog memes.

I mean
what could possibly go wrong?

nostr:nevent1qqs93t83drvr0gzktqpyfc20ycu4ldvceqw3rmsjj5rk68wx9asuqlspr4mhxue69uhkummnw3ezucnfw33k76twv4ezuum0vd5kzmp0qgsqfjg4mth7uwp307nng3z2em3ep2pxnljczzezg8j7dhf58ha7ejgrqsqqqqqp8ye6af


and everyone unquestioningly considers this a good thing...

smh


You started it bro


despite the criminality of the govt,
America is still pretty dope


who said I had an account?
and what would I find exactly?

afaict I would install Hub on a vps, correct?


If you think DJT is going to save America you probably also think CSW is Satoshi.


Wild to see this in newsweek 👍


Ok so suppose I spin one up on a VPS somewhere.
I still have to manage liquidity no doubt?
Are there integrated tools to help with that?


Yet somehow all living things suffer.

Curious.


Yes. this.

Never going to happen though.

nostr:nevent1qqs0wc3k9z70828p20yx2z86kn78ydhsl7ggjjc7gjfknuu47l02pwspzamhxue69uhhyetvv9ujumn0wd68ytnzv9hxgtczyz29h8frkte7f5vh0397vpg4ecxz9cqe5q29rmxn8tcssrj70fqw6qcyqqqqqqg34fkjk


Surely they won't be considered unlicensed money transmitters,
or rugpull their users when they get large enough.

and have enough tx volume that timing analysis doesn't undermine the privacy they provide.

or you could,
you know

just use monero.
today.


sure plenty of those too

so what?


hand waving sacrificing custody is bullshit shitcoiner thinking

i don't make the rules


or maybe not

because you know,
history is littered with examples of technologies that were actually better but didn't work out for other reasons.
life is complicated.

nuanced reply under a black and white engagement tweet
sorry not sorry


If the arbitration is reliable this is true.
But its a complicated subject.

DNMs often have dispute arbitration also, but if it's just some dude who DGAF scams can easily happen.


Monero.
This is monero.

nostr:nevent1qqspw8qs6mpt4mdu56edke5fm8rsfdyqzrrudg8rqhp6ec8lvx7snrcpzamhxue69uhhyetvv9ujumn0wd68ytnzv9hxgtczyzwsvhuycr960v80sm6a9524um8qz9u23ge7r98enxdhf9a3kgspkqcyqqqqqqgrka34p


I wonder....
If only such a thing existed.... 🤔


Bitcoiners are racist against range proofs.


You need protocol level privacy. Stop justifying doing it on the app layer.
It cannot be both decentralized abd censorship resistant.

Furthermore you are ALREADY trusting cryptographic primitives everytime you use BTC. Why would you refuse OTHER primitives that provide privacy???


Self custodial in a Phoenix wallet type way?
So Alby is just the LSP then and I trust you with my privacy?

I would try that for sure.


Classic shitcoiner mentality 👍

have fun tradingsovereignty for convenience.


private *custodial* payments for bitcoin


whats the situation with fiat on/off ramps?

still a crap shoot you'll get scammed?


TFW the lasereye maxi calls the privacy, self-custody extremist a "zealot" unironically

bro we're all zealots here

nostr:nevent1qqsvyjxl6el57z8k9724d3xj8ejtlnrakpdth7m4s2ezm9qyghmpamcpz3mhxue69uhhyetvv9uju6rjvchx7un89upzp78xcep59u0q2fyqvv8z0cgpdh8rtlp6v98xqs60aa92y5pn9r9fqvzqqqqqqyj9uwe9


ok lasereyes

tell us some more about how its good for bitcoin to give up custody for a dopamine hit in social media


I'm a Bitcoiner

so I don't trade custody for convenience


Bromite isn't being maintained.

All my homies use Cromite.
https://github.com/uazo/cromite


basically
there are no noncustodial options unless you have excesses of time and money.

got it.


Its absurd advice.

I'll give Zeus one more try. IME it wasn't very reliable.


And how many hours/days of administration is required so I can send a few sats over nostr?


whats the sovereign option for noncustodial zapping?


Cheers!


If you are realisitic, solarpunk optimism is antiproductive.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J_Pov8cO7O4


Socially normalizing options that degrade fundamental principles is bad.

We need less "all options are good."
and more critical discourse about the necessity to maintain 1st principles.

nostr:npub1qny3tkh0acurzla8x3zy4nhrjz5zd8l9sy9jys09umwng00manysew95gx heart is in the right place. but he's also victim of the echo chamber he's part of (like everyone).


unless you dgaf and just want to have a quiet life, enjoying your fiat purchasing power with your family.

That is also an option.


So if you care of about private, censorship-resistant options you say
"those options are bullshit"

not
"more options are good"


More options for users STOPS being better when those option normalize undermining bitcoins fundamental value proposition(s).

Sound bites are nice and all. But they are not critical thinking.


I mean
theyre very different. So it depends on how I'm feeling.

But I def tend towards 5-meo more I think. its one of my favorite things ever.


I had to order the rda from alibaba i think.

its great, you have to be veeery careful with dosage though.
it is extremely efficient.


mesh RDA.

So you can put your freebase 5-MEO or N,N directly on the screen and adjust the vape temp 👍


KYC is the illicit activity
nostr:nevent1qqst3009yxfd8dw7xk7vjupv27ae7ks74z9ycfp75ep9qkcz8eqlaccpzamhxue69uhhyetvv9ujuurjd9kkzmpwdejhgtczyz2ardxsae4khdmx4vk39884lck6gmre8f20pq4pktdmq0v3umgc7qcyqqqqqqg2x3fha


i will if you will https://image.nostr.build/82e9c7f9a7f3ff311e4e0d770d9138d2281472d6548be6ad41e5691770b994cd.jpg


Would suggest Brazil.
https://image.nostr.build/a5ea746c81b58e2d6d2a0b3207860287ef9db121b113ee750ca2dca7cfa9d571.jpg


Humboldt kind is the bomb


TDevD


"Network security" is also opsec.

Ie, if they know where the hash is a centralized actor can shut it off.

Its CPU mining that's designed to have to most individual miners, not asic.


In other words, its got nothing to do with pools at all.
It's also not about # of hashes, its about energy consumption.

You can either have centralized ASIC farms prone to govt pressure using lots of energy

or decentralized low energy hashing impossible to pressure.

everything is tradeoffs.


Well you were insisting it was a problem for monero.

So is it or isn't it smarty-pants?


hate to break it to you https://image.nostr.build/73501e3677a686ba108eb6830fc1511ef8d69dc142a8969cf2a9e4d1f0f7cbf4.jpg


Proof of steak https://image.nostr.build/558bfb5601e3d55a257f98c891c22c9eaf58542c23942f796c9fa43de229e1a1.jpg


no offense but that's an echo chamber


king shit
congratulations


Bitcoin has exactly the same pool centralization problem. Even more so.

and game theory suggests that if a pool would try to reorganize the chain all the hash would move to another pool.

So you're incorrect about the greater decentralization of BTC hash.

Correct about the much greater investment of energy securing the chain however.


wut?
nostr:nevent1qqsdwx4kzzczahtasduvge0dpu36xwg7fwc8thynazev22ycnh6q25qpr4mhxue69uhkummnw3ezucnfw33k76twv4ezuum0vd5kzmp0qgsrhrchlw9f7rrkndvpnneu463ey2nggn200amgftke7et3hvntu3srqsqqqqqpfzt2hf


You have some weird ideas.

For one, while tx volume and hash rate might be correlated, there's no direct connection.
So starting off I'm pretty sure you're not terribly informed.

Also, while a 51% may be easier to execute "that's why they asked miners to leave pools...?"
This is nonsensical.

Ill give to the 5-7% though. 25k *actual economic txs* per day is still awesome.


monero does 10% of BTC tx volume daily.
how does that make it insecure?


I also lowkey advocate for privacy with my kyced identities


Interesting.
I don't know about how the governance works but it is an interesting concept.

IME these anonymous decentralized online communities are extremely powerful.
This is the future.

https://lunardao.net/manifesto.html


yeah depends on whether you had principles to begin with.

I'd also say that men over 40 who DON'T have children better be devoting themselves to something larger then they are.


All yall trad and proud fellas are forgetting something

Once you have a family and home, your life is no longer censorship resistant.
I don't make the rules.

Easy to exert leverage on family men. That's why y'all start to become "reasonable" instead of idealistic and principled.

Not saying family isn't worth it, just a fact.


like this?
simple crypto widget
 https://image.nostr.build/2cc2a3b804b1e09173e46b2d06b0ac965eea8903134d3b381f09696ad4fca3d3.jpg


can't your counterparties client still be logging the chat?


local hippie radio reports DJT scored zero points last night.

I certainly dont waste time on debates but sounds pretty out of touch


I AM KING OF THE SMALL POND!

SURELY THIS POND MUST GROW AND FLOURISH, AS ALL MY FRIENDS ARE HERE.


Lol

but its MY cognitive dissonance 😂


Great list.

There's still zero data to indicate T had anything to do with Epsteins arrest.

Like, he takes every opportunity to brag about being involved in developing the vaccine
but is dead silent about breaking up the pedo ring?

must be 6-d chess right?


Also
dont talk shit like words are cheap

when you can't even spell discernment

if you were actaully able to "discern"
you'd notice


we have this saying
maybe youve heard it
"correlation is not causation"

T was completely silent about Epstein


you literally have zero proof T was part of any "sting"

get help


lol
nah

Trump is a narcissistic moron. Certainly also corrupt.
But that's probably it. In todays politcal climate that has a certain innocence.

But don't be confused,
he doesn't care about you or anyone else either.


I hope there is.

Regulators are quite accomplished at avoiding direct confrontation and instead gradually adjusting expectations over years.

Bitcoiners normalization, and even encouragement of, KYC being case in point.


you'd think, if you were actually interested, that when told "we offload supply soundness guarantees to the correctness of proof and signature constructions"

you would think "Oh, in this case, I should learn about the proofs and decide if I think they are trustworthy."

instead maxis will just be "nah, I'll just spread FUD I heard somewhere and pretend it must be correct."

never mind they're ALREADY trusting *other* proof constructions without understanding them.

literally insane.


Right. As I said, its a legitimate threat until we get to that phase.

It's another front of state KYC/AML laws designed to undermine bitcoins censorship resistant properties.

And they're being generally successful.


Until there is public, determined competition between nation states for domination of the mining space its a very real threat.

The US is *quite* adept at leveraging its position in even hostile jurisdictions. There is no place on earth that both 1,takes bitcoin seriously enough and 2,hates the US enough that miners can feel secure enough to bring large hash online there.

And of course, one jurisdiction isn't enough. We need many.

So tbh, it's stupid to dismiss that attack vector.

Sure you'll probably still be able to eventually get your tx mined.
But the network will NOT function as advertised.


you can also make the argument that bitcoin ASIC centralization undermines the purpose of defeating state actors and central banks


Hard to believe you maxis are suggesting these as serious solutions.

https://x.com/MutinyWallet/status/1805346636660429021


And you TRUST someone elses code to verify your supply for you retard.
despite it being a transparent asset.

you're just too much of an idiot to realize you  ALSO don't have 100% guarantee of supply


"Muh reading comprehension gud"

https://image.nostr.build/a66cbb34a24442a01df4e81ce4387399045859de3f4c96b7afeec1ae08966294.jpg
nostr:nevent1qqsxjc7ht0k26pct56zs2j49hm4aetudqys53egvd5e7nna4q959naqpr4mhxue69uhkummnw3ezucnfw33k76twv4ezuum0vd5kzmp0qgsytuv4el7t3jtjfm7zfrc9q730ked40806he7dx5uctxqk8j4hvfcrqsqqqqqpxlsld4


You're too much of a moron to understand what either I or Snowden are talking about.

Or how moneros cryptographic security is *at-least* as reliable as cryptographic assumptions you are ALREADY trusting.

have fun staying ignorant.


Its perfectly normal to place trust in 3rd parties. nobody has the time to become an expert in everything and then personally audit all this stuff.

A big part of learning is ADMITTING WHAT YOU DON'T KNOW.

Its fine (ie, reasonable to me) to *trust* the ECDSA implementation in bitcoin. Obviously I do it too.

But it's retarted to trust ECDSA (without reflection or understanding) but then refuse to examine *other* well-established cryptographic primitives.
because reasons.

usually those reasons are "Team Bitcoin doesn't approve of those specific cryptographic primitives and Im a good team player. Look at my cool laser eyes."

You don't understand Pedersen commitments or know what zero-knowledge proofs are? You don't trust me when I say their probably *at-least* as reliable as the ECDSA sceme you're ALREADY trusting?

Fine, just say "i don't know or care and Im not going to look into it." At least that's intellectually honest.

Or just "I'm a moron and I trust what a block explorer tells me."

Everybody has to eventually place trust somewhere. But that doesn't mean you should shave your head and join the cult.

The absolute state of the bitcoin community
smdh

nostr:nevent1qqs0epwyq05e9sscd35pawyct5dys8znnu2qa96pnm9fh308e07hnrgpr4mhxue69uhkummnw3ezucnfw33k76twv4ezuum0vd5kzmp0qgsytuv4el7t3jtjfm7zfrc9q730ked40806he7dx5uctxqk8j4hvfcrqsqqqqqppjaywt


I have not moved any goalposts.
Just continued to call out your obvious inconsistencies.

You are the one changing the subject, not I.


if you dont have the ability to actually reflect on your fundamental assumptions you are a waste of time.

point is
you demand proof from me,
but trust other "maxis."
WITHOUT understanding or DYOR on *either* of the cryptographic primitives involved.

it is intellectually inconsistent and you arent a cypherpunk or a true bitcoiner.
just a team player unwilling to make the effort of critical thinking.

have a nice day.


You can always tell when a maxi has lost all actual fact-based argument.

Because they pull out a fiat chart of relative speculative value as if it was meaningful.


<sigh>
lol ok

You have no evidence your private key is the only key that can spend a utxo.

This property of bitcoin depends on the ECDSA encryption it uses being mathematically sound and the implementation being correctly coded

YOU *TRUST* THE BITCOIN COMMUNITY WHEN THEY TELL YOU THIS IS SO.

YOU ARE ALREADY RELYING ON CRYPTOGRAPHIC PRIMITIVES YOU DON'T UNDERSTAND.
YOU JUST REFUSE TO ACKNOWLEDGE IT.


lol no, not all of them.

half of them want to add ZK proofs to Bitcoin.
But still fud monero because "muh supply auditability"

at least the OP is racist becasue theyre just ignorant and suspicious of what they don't understand.


"I trust bitcoin because it's transparent and don't understand math"

i think we can safely disregard your opinion.


By the EXACT same logic
you cant trust ECDSA to ensure that only your private keys can spend your utxos.

But you do.

Your whole argument is just
"I trust Team Bitcoin when they say ECDSA is secure.
But I don't trust Team Monero when they say range proofs are secure.
I don't DYOR.
I don't verify.
I just follow the prevalent groupthink of the team I like."

Frankly, you're a sorryass Bitcoiner.


Again, that is incorrect.

You trust ECDSA to secure your utxos and ensure only your private key can reassign them.
There is no plausible reason to trust ECDSA but mistrust Pedersen commitments.


you're proving my point

nostr:nevent1qqsp00g66jame0tgt4tl30f0l8apsmsd6vceh2k34kplp3ajqepfjwcpr4mhxue69uhkummnw3ezucnfw33k76twv4ezuum0vd5kzmp0qgs0npwnpyvheqz7zuvuwvv9k460c0hyqlturds40hhfn34vufvehwcrqsqqqqqp2gasdm


maxis are racist against zero knowledge proofs


This is just incorrect.
ECDSA was not standardized until 2005.

Relying on ECDSA without question but being suspicious of Pedersen committments is weird and arbitrary.


Nobody is arguing that napkin math isnt a sounder guarantee.

But it is intellectually inconsistent to bitch about ZK proofs when you are ALREADY trusting cryptographic primitives that are more complex.


If only maxis were so demanding when it comes to auditing the gettxsetoutinfo function.... 😥

It is good to be intellectually consistent.


It is not plausible to suggest zero knowledge proofs are unreliable because "they are younger"
They've been around since the 80s and are well understood.

People have been talking about adding them to bitcoin since forever. I'm not aware of *anyone* who is opposed because they're skeptical of their mathematical properties.

Here Hal discussing them back in the day.
https://cointelegraph.com/news/bitcoin-pioneer-hal-finney-talks-zero-knowledge-proofs-newly-surfaced-video


Ill see if I can find a braindead explanation of rangeproofs or Pedersen commitments.
In the meantime here's the wikipedia on commitment schemes.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Commitment_scheme


Actual personal responsibility and self sovereignty requires effort.


yup


Pixel 6a with GrapheneOS


He is precisely correct.
A monero transaction must prove no its inputs and output equal zero to meet consensus agreements.
We can prove that without knowing the amounts involved because of zero knowledge proofs.

This isn't rocket science,you are already trusting more complicated maths using bitcoin.


Yall are incorrect that there is significantly more trust than you already put in bitcoin.

Range proofs have been around for a looong time and are well understood.


cryptographic primitives
in this case, range proofs.

https://eprint.iacr.org/2024/430


you audit the gettxoutsetinfo code yourself?

or do you *trust* the community to do it for you?


For one, Im willing to bet you have NEVER personally verified the BTC supply and just trust someone elses code to do it

And two, it's possible to mathematically prove that something is so, WITHOUT actually revealing what the factors are.
Like we can prove that the sum of the inputs and outputs of a tx are zero. Without showing the amounts.


In other words
yall are morons who don't understand you are ALREADY trusting cryptographic primitives and you dont need to be able to sum the utxo set on a napkin to have supply assurances.

Snowden is absolutely correct.


There are some Proof of Reserve schemes that people have been kicking around for a while. That would be hard proof that the mint has the BTC (or whatever).

Also Calle has this Proof of Liabilities scheme.
https://gist.github.com/callebtc/ed5228d1d8cbaade0104db5d1cf63939

Ideas... none of them are implemented anywhere yet as far as I know.


Protocol level privacy is the only solution.


This is true.
Except the part about social shaming.

Shame is good aktcually.


I agree abortion should not be uaed as birth control.
But disagree the state should regulate it.

It should simply be socially unacceptable. This is only possible by encouraging people (men and women both) to take personal responsibility and accept the consequences of their actions.


Isn't ecash the synthetic bitcoin that is used to suppress the price forever?

they just have to spin up the most credible mint and normies will go for it.
particularly since non credible mints will rug people.


because everyone on LN is using their own node "like a real man" lmao
massive anon set

and receiver privacy is "possible and improving"
so impressive.

no doubt monero will go to zero any day now with such awesome privacy guarantees 😂

nostr:nevent1qqs2cx7sllruvrjwtv6zkx8y8p39l96yzhnnzq9yxm8s8xq0cs4p4fcpr4mhxue69uhkummnw3ezucnfw33k76twv4ezuum0vd5kzmp0qgsggpl43hx2243hhp6dhv89hjky03c8qn4qmsrevfkzc76zcuz9asgrqsqqqqqp8h5dkq


yawn
cool bro


You're promoting beta software and untried tech as privacy solutions.

LN privacy is a complicated issue and when you say "I use LN privately all the time"
you're obviously full of shit.


"privacy is coming" is the cope.

Ive been having these arguments for over 7 yrs and its always "privacy is coming."
There is nothing that comes close to monero privacy guarantees and that's a fact.

furthermore, if you do NOT have protocol level privacy there will ALWAYS be centralization/custodial tradeoffs.


There is no Zerolink CJ operational st the moment.
JM cjs have been unwound and wasabi sucks.
So no, there isnt a good CJ option atm.

Receiver privacy on LN is non existent and even sender privacy is subjective since LN can be highly centrlaized.

"proxy node" isnt a thing.

iow, there arent any tools on bitcoin that obfuscate the sender, receiver and amount.

agree with no-KYC though.
no KYC only 👍


Maxis will straight up accuse you of being in monero for fiat "value"
and at the same time suggest compromising on decentralization and custody are reasonable tradeoffs.

the lack of self-examination is astounding.

nostr:nevent1qqs20ku4krej67f8d6y4kuc7lp4plruhd2e84swjtj8krmlcgm6trxspr4mhxue69uhkummnw3ezucnfw33k76twv4ezuum0vd5kzmp0qgswex0dc4t8uq5pt7c4qgpgtch6swgfx88d7kwg844m930kac2npwgrqsqqqqqpspkckw


I hold at least as much bitcoin as I do monero.
and I'd be very happy to be all bitcoin if it offers the same functionality.

it doesnt. that's a simple fact.

"a little custodial risk is ok" is simple cope and a compromise of 1st principles.
Custodians can be shut down if they dont rug you, etc.

maybe instead of accusing others of being in for the NGU you should take a look in the mirror.


Bitcoiners and the eternal "privacy is coming on L2"
smdh

the cope is coming from inside the house.

nostr:nevent1qqsf39a93uduhtqlwfdajwf3zmatt4w84xkusrgwqkrv6eugk0dy2ncpr4mhxue69uhkummnw3ezucnfw33k76twv4ezuum0vd5kzmp0qgsggpl43hx2243hhp6dhv89hjky03c8qn4qmsrevfkzc76zcuz9asgrqsqqqqqpc2ukgd


Cool
very serious "solution https://image.nostr.build/b4f4ec57dd0107a9fb544fbed1533560e337cb4e02bd4cd1a070ecdce6ec8116.jpg "


You need to make an coherent argument for a solution.

Are you trying to make a case for Mutiny being private LN payments?
Are you saying enuts is not custodial?

Do you know the point you are trying to make?


Atomic swaps are a thing. So no there is no risk.

And its nice to theorize about how great ecash will be when its not battle-tested.
As it stands, you have to immediately swap out to you own mint or to LN becasue we cant trust the mints.

All of your "solutions" have considerably more friction that just having a stack of monero you use for private payments.


I mean, really???
You're going to point to Liquid as a reasonable privacy tool? For real?
How long has Liquid existed? How long have the blocks been completely empty? It's a fucking ghost town?

Meanwhile Monero does 20-30k tx per day and you're telling me with a straight face that Liquid and custodial ecash are legit alternatives?

Its not the monero stans who refuse to see reality bro


"I like bitcoin, buy my centralized custodial shitcoin"

nostr:nevent1qqs994yc8njxa243nlew9s2qh2t35kfy0kq0nq43644j9uf3jhj8j6qpr4mhxue69uhkummnw3ezucnfw33k76twv4ezuum0vd5kzmp0qgswex0dc4t8uq5pt7c4qgpgtch6swgfx88d7kwg844m930kac2npwgrqsqqqqqpufsmn6


Name one. Ill wait.


both of those solutions are centralized and custodial. ok well, Liquid isn't custodial, you just need permission to peg out.

bitcoiners don't wabt to acknowledge this becasue their bags depend on compromising 1st principles for the sake of NGU.


There are no "privacy tools" on Bitcoin that do what Monero does.

And there has always been a complex ecosystem of various monetary instruments with different properties.
Maxis always emphasize "one coin to rule them all" because they want ngu.


Shildichat ftw


They also don't need to.

They just need to push normies into custodial wallets.


he is basically correct.
keep your seed on metal washers buried in the ground. Or on old Pixel running Graphene.
Seedsigner is great too.

And monero is fucking awesome.


certainly unfollowed him for his dumb tribal opinions however


IYKYK

https://nihilism.network/


I understand the tradeoffs bitcoin has made and its role in the evolution of the cypherpunk movement.

You're apparently just a braindead maxi repeating slogans you heard somewhere.

Bye.


You cannot call yourself a Bitcoiner if you legitimately think this is a true statement.

Bitcoin was built by cypherpunks who understood tradeoffs and adversarial thinking.
It is the antithesis of maxi groupthink.

nostr:nevent1qqsqtmdwf99pzfhz9ja9w0mhmcg5pxtk8ce0fk9zurfdx2e9ajvjr4gpzamhxue69uhhyetvv9ujuurjd9kkzmpwdejhgtczyq2h0ezenhgsep35nrlrcg9as24047pf5k2uaq79e79vx334xxcfkqcyqqqqqqgcjz5g4


I'll repeat:
Retarded anti-intellectual bullshit tribalism

and you are not a cypherpunk or a legit Bitcoiner if you hold this view.


This is just elitist tribal BS.

There are no properties of monero that make it a shitcoin.


Obviously the risk of hidden supply inflation or rugpulls does not exist with self-custodied Monero.


Its literally right on their FAQ 🙄
do better

https://docs.cashu.space/faq
 https://image.nostr.build/6c89b015b0d0fb88de6db01f77319718a28123024a098cb2ee07108c3add837a.jpg


The risk of using any custodial solution, Cashu included, is that the mint either inflates the supply or rugs you.


how is being custodial a safeguard?


The government will run mints.
Other criminals will also run mints.

Normies will use the government mints.
They will inflate the supply and we will basically have the exact situation as we do now.
The vast majority will use cucked centralized systems and small groups of principled people will take the time and effort to use real solutions.


Awesome rundown by Luke on Serai and FCMP

https://podcast.paranoiamachinery.com/audio/@paranoia_machinery/luke-parker-fcmp-serai-dex-and-dero-drama-episode-10-outlaw-crypto-podcast.mp3?_from=antennapod.org


I am a proud to have been a kickstarter contributer to this movie in 2013.

For all time, there will be some cool cat named Evan in the kickstarter credits between Tim May and Keanu Reeves.


legend 🙏


Watch the movie "citizenfour"
about the Snowden leaks
nostr:nevent1qqs8kwxcvgy0q02pxluvskfkx4t4mcnqkdnfss28clclg6mth8h59zqpzamhxue69uhhyetvv9ujumn0wd68ytnzv9hxgtczyrgda0ulkyk7lq05847xjs5mk7zgz2kpunfd2w3q9km243l2fdrxcqcyqqqqqqg99sq4x


There's nothing for BTC now whirlpool is offline. Not that there will never be, but things look grim.

Loss of liquidity is an acceptable tradeoff since most "liquidity" is actually degen speculation.

Keep bitcoin cypherpunk.


This is why default privacy is critical.


that's true.

privacy is a very valuable tradeoff.
some would say indispensable.


just finished. so glad I got it, should be required viewing.


this is why confidential transactions and stealth addresses were proposed for Bitcoin from long ago.


There are already other systems in place that offer different tradeoffs.
Not that you asked, you just assumed they don't exist for some reason.

Whatt I'm doing is challenging yalls blanket acceptance that surveillance is normal and necessary.


You don't need to have perfect surveillance to ensure double spends dont happen smartypants.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zero-knowledge_proof


watching it right now.

it's like holy shit, never thought i could see the original hotel footage in Hong Kong


Anyone seen the Snowden movie Citizenfour?
Worth a peek?


Pretty good movie
#freeross https://image.nostr.build/bf6f548bc8dadc0c0da671590f292d0341b4db3930896cd5f573458b6ee79f7a.jpg


Sorry, that's insane and it's not how anything else works.

Its also means de facto surveillance because 99% of users are normies and will use the defaults.

But apparently its normal to believe we should all be seeing into each others bank accounts and transaction history now.
And somehow believe that won't erode censorship resistance.
smdh


only OG cyberpunka will get it.
 https://image.nostr.build/2e684ea915c6240c0b1a3a24a32a102e34d0a5d4374b373994bc0216d4ed1c46.jpg


It is bitcoiners that help push the narrative that lack of privacy is the default state.

nostr:nevent1qqs0fkmpm7hcrv2fns49ke8nw3ezte05v5cc73l20sxexp9e6fsyyqgpr4mhxue69uhkummnw3ezucnfw33k76twv4ezuum0vd5kzmp0qgs8anfluc6na3x9xee8j05pg3wz5vvueu9znz536aade73cddf0xrgrqsqqqqqpp856cu


Oh.
You honestly think it's normal and good to see what other people do with their money.
Wow, nm.


Insane.

(that the BTC community considers it normal for this information to be publicly known and nobody sees a problem with it)


fucking cypherpunk larps

nostr:nevent1qqsdylm5jyx9sp490lff9xx9u7kxq7w506xrm69pph02vgl4ug0jvhqpremhxue69uhkummnw3ez6ur4vgh8wetvd3hhyer9wghxuet59upzp7kk2sxg7t7j594zt5xc9hv46wad0zgdgdw3dyyy3g98055g8fz8qvzqqqqqqyqt6upn


blackrock literally has a deal with coinbase to issue paper BTC
and you assholes are crowing about "defunding the state"

wake up


I mean
i guess I'd rather have the option than not...

but fr this is some serious shit and we need to be specific about the tradeoffs


Adam Back cheering the new Wasabi release without any analysis kinda sums on the current state of bitcoin for me.

The new release is cool and I'm into it.
But it's a nuanced topic (how do we prevent coordinators from sybilling?) and he just blabs some random buzzwords.

not impressed.

 https://image.nostr.build/41424c6541628be9bae72dac9afcfed582214dcfdfdb2a2bdf190c8aa7f28eb3.jpg


Also you're also clearly incorrect

there was *already a bug. Which was provably detected and patched before it was exploited.

So your fud of "monero can't detect any inflation bug" is already wrong.


Every tx proves that the sum of its inputs and outputs equals zero.

So the circulating supply is the coinbase outputs, which are transparent.


😂
(me crying)


I don't know how much of that tx volume is real economic activity.
and neither do you.

and nothing else is used more.


not really.

you acknowledge bitcoin is the best we got and nothing else existent now can do what it does.

but because you have very smart, very correct opinions it obviously has to be something else?

check yourself before you wreck yourself.


there are 100k transactions per day on the BTC blockchain.

you are setting arbitrary values on what qualifies as circulation.


yes.
bootstrapping is a very challenging part of growth.

and bitcoin has succeeded.
nothing else has yet.

you can quibble about whether its properties qualify as currency or an investment asset or whatever
but there are no other contenders.

(except monero)


kinda pedantic don't you think?

"you must purchase an investment asset with surplus currency.
currency may not be held.
currency may not be deflationary."

any other arbitrary rules you want to lay down?


the point was that there is no other crypto that has the property of "security".

which is a prerequisite to be a viable currency.


show me all these supposed superior alternatives.
all you're doing is repeating the same lines over and over without any substantiation.

people do also spend btc you know?


yawn
ok bro
just repeat your original thesis as if no discussion had happened.


I agree people need to also spend it.

and i dunno what you mean by the 1st sentence. tulips value is down.


it isn't wasted.
its good security. EVERYTHING else would be trivial to attack.

and the futility of attacking it makes it the ONLY viable alternative.


currency is *also meant to go be held.


"it cant be money if its purchasing power increases" is a retarded take, sorry.


also -1 for "appreciates in value"
fiat value is meaningless.

the idea is to replace the bullshit we have now with something it makes sense to measure with.

there is no other crypto that has the necessary properties.


so what?
its important than money be secure.
not that it be "technically more advanced."


i didnt say zaps proved btcs usefulness...?

plenty of people also buy btc because its good money and better than holding fiat.


I wasnt going to bring monero into it but i do agree with that.
i am btc and xmr only.

but complaints can be made about the "immutability"part.
the expense to ddos or reorg the monero chain is trivial for a nation-state.

bitcoin is far and away more secure.


"i just learned about bitcoin and I'm here to fix it"


correct.

except the part about nostr.
basically nobody is here for fiat gainz except a few randoms.


name one.
there arent any.


unless you're hoping for some quick usd gainz.
maybe regulators will bless some chain and use it for a fiat payment rail.

but that's got nothing to do with anything.


there is no other "crypto" that is immutable and decentralized.

which ruins the underlying value proposition of the stuff.

just use usd if you have a problem with btc as a currency.


money is just a ledger of transactions.
a immutable decentrlaized ledger is valuable.

and sure, maybe some people buy it hoping to get rich. that doesn't make it a tulip.


for something big like FCMP you have to have someone completely out there making sure it's looked at from every angle.

It's not going to happen quietly.
he's doing it the right way.


im sorry you find cypherpunk history boring.
unfortunately it isnt all cheap thrillss and ngu.

GFY


shooting your mouth off as if you were the 1st to wonder if knowing what tx originated with what IP was a problem...
jesus christ

get over yourself and get back to studying


you had no idea about the history or use of dandelion bro.

putting your ignorant ass in your place isn't "trolling"
i know more than you. about bitcoin too.

if you weren't a complete idiot you'd be open-minded and grateful
but youre just a maxi who doesn't care about anything except the success of your personal ideology.

congrats on being everything wrong with bitcoin.


randomly talks shit in an ignorant way

people take the time to explain the history and usefulness of the tech to him

calls the explainers fanatics and says he hates them.

people are fucking morons.

nostr:nevent1qqsg05ff97h9qf85qrdd7phtwxmqfyvuy27w5kzc2qajs53s86lp60cpzemhxue69uhhyetvv9ujumn0wd68ytnzv9hxgq3qfjqqy4a93z5zsjwsfxqhc2764kvykfdyttvldkkkdera8dr78vhsxpqqqqqqzn0wpwt


dude
you're the one who doesnt know shit about the tech or its history.

dandelion was developed for btc, implemented on monero

and you're just randomly fudding
because youre a maxi ahole

but sure, *we're the ones who are fanatical 🙄


you just like to randomly pick fights about stuff you are just learning about or what?

it's working just fine.


you are a very confused person.

or maybe just on some good drugs.


wut?


there is literally a BIP for it that has been open for years
BIP 156 I think


the point is,
we can prove supply.

"but there could be a special hidden bug nobody has ever had any indication of" is retarded

and exists for every chain anyway


Anon set is already higher in monero as less than 10% of BTC txs obfuscate the sender, receiver and amount.
MUCH less.

Acquisition privacy is BETTER with monero because it's been delisted from CEXs, forcing users to find alternative noKYC means to get it.
at it's very worst it's the same problem as with BTC.

and then theres,you know, the fact you have strong default forward privacy and a good UX.

but please continue, tell us more about how we dont understand the tenets of privacy.... 😑


it doesn't. they're delusional and just repeating cope.


M
O
N
E
R
O


Its alright

#teatime https://image.nostr.build/efee7430cb34bc9e85f5f9567546a00ec55b15d4560b2609c32f1fdd7198e46a.jpg


When they are offering ETFs for the shit it's not defunding the state you unbelievable knob


don't encourage them


Where is your code hosted?


So you're thinking you can operate enough relays to collect "postage" to fund development?
🤔


What's the long term funding strategy fkr Keychat?


this is the sort of shit that makes Start9 fucking awesome.
specific, detailed support of edge-cases over nostr.

if you aren't supporting them
you should be.

nostr:nevent1qqspgv6hs726dl8pn9we52efjsverdxdlgps7ettls893advsuudvpspr3mhxue69uhkummnw3ezucnfw33k76twv4ezuum0vd5kzmqzypt2dd6nw0y00wfu2w72apkcl7at48e2rvupygz5lndh7wlkgkmjwqcyqqqqqqgrz4pkw


This is good practice.

Ideally you have two phones, one on the charger at home and another for outside use that is NEVER online at home.


of course, GrapheneOS is open source and this sort of thing is verifiable.
where is your source code published?


you were just a twinkle in someones eye when that movie was made son.


you don't understand that there is NO zerolink coinjoin coordinator running atm or the situation of LN privacy

you already shit the bed mate GFY


Brief update on Samourai

https://x.com/frankcorva/status/1795509090946363682


holy shit
you're right


adding someone's @ to a note always crashes Amethyst


that's quite a word salad to just say "i only understand 4 letter words and care about fiat value"


live within your means.
produce value for the people directly in your area and trade with them p2p


Masked people without phones are invisible dumbass.

its about threat awareness. get with the program.


you should be ashamed to use that nym when you're such a cuck


and I didn't say anything about you bro 🙄


this is a correct opinion


that's bullshit.

the whole point of FOSS is that it empowers others to create something new.

"i don't want to empower others to create something that competes" is a shitty attitude.

See Matt Hills recent interview on CD for the correct attitude.

nostr:nevent1qqswq3kff6d7g8tta2x3u8lm7apfw9vda2ny2g66qwjlukyv0c7vsyqprpmhxue69uhhyetvv9ujuumwdae8gtnnda3kjctvqgsqfjg4mth7uwp307nng3z2em3ep2pxnljczzezg8j7dhf58ha7ejgrqsqqqqqp3lluva


Seedsigner is great.

Buy one with sats direct.


nothing more dangerous than a little knowledge


fyi

the signature scheme that would've exploited the 2017 Cryptonote bug would be clearly visable on-chain.


stunning Dunning-Kruger exhibited here.

nostr:nevent1qqs0cr49tq4vx90n9dut2rgdr47z36kqgah4hw4a5znc87ysshypzespzemhxue69uhhyetvv9ujumn0wd68ytnzv9hxgq3qsdxqk57gkvlq44g0c3fyuy0s2p4vvnld90nk98nf2ykf6td8gd5sxpqqqqqqzk6lawv


That just says
"auditability requires perfect surveillance"
which is not the mic drop you think it is.

its also just plain FUD
the XEdDSA signature scheme used to exploit the CN bug would be clearly visible on chain.
iow, there WOULD be on-chain proof if the inflation bug had been exploited.

"hard fork on a whim" is stupid and doesn't deserve a response.


The difference is that we can be reasonably sure our phones arent calling back to Google servers without our knowledge.

But hey
if you'd rather be able to call an uber easily that's your choice.


this really can't be repeated enough.

nostr:nevent1qqsx3ps2na3xlgpg27cvtnxwfal40x34ecz6n3pm6ktw0d897p92wwgpzdmhxue69uhhyetvv9ukzcnvv5hx7un8qgsgfhhxuemwtwm8kjk5uppv7uxtmp5pz4wm2dv59lxx5pfnsk98ysqrqsqqqqqpxf2ad3


it called NOT trading our privacy for convenience.


wow
cool opt-in, still-not-implemented, partially privacy preserving solution bra

surely this will now solve bitcoins gaping privacy problem </s>


never


Thats true.

It would be interesting to see what happens if monero had say 10x the marketcap it has today.


I think he tried to zap.
Ive seen that before in Amethyst.

Obv it doesn't work but maybe it announces a event even if there isn't a wallet on the receiving end?


i don't think so man

at least if it is, I'm not seeing it.


oh that's a repost?


does this mean Matt tried to zap me?

no doubt because of the StartOS plug
not the Monero https://image.nostr.build/4d1b8cc29377a05592c681fba1a376695570a7b54c937658456f5926faeab9a1.jpg


a Monero node isn't a shitcoin node
GFY

love StartOS tho

nostr:nevent1qqswq3kff6d7g8tta2x3u8lm7apfw9vda2ny2g66qwjlukyv0c7vsyqprpmhxue69uhhyetvv9ujuumwdae8gtnnda3kjctvqgsqfjg4mth7uwp307nng3z2em3ep2pxnljczzezg8j7dhf58ha7ejgrqsqqqqqp3lluva


GM

they're going to give you a CBDC iou for your bitcoin one day
or they will put you in a cage.

prepare yourself.


talk is cheap


There are orders of magnitude of difference between
1. knowing your peer accepts a thing and using it privately

and

2. recording the tx on a transparent ledger anyone with an internet connection can see

All central points (gift card providers, CEXs etc) have the same weakness, whether BTC or XMR, and are susceptible to pressure

Privacy is the only thing that makes direct p2p censorship resistant.


price point incentivizes regulatory capture.

only a coin that can be used *without announcing it's use* stands a chance against state attacks.


"They" are about 1000x more likely to do this first with bitcoin than with monero.

nostr:nevent1qqsgcxn6yf2dds9275g2uttznre0s88j4pt5ern9pkuwr7s6j4g5fzcpr3mhxue69uhkummnw3ezucnfw33k76twv4ezuum0vd5kzmqzypzlr9w0ljuvjujwlsjg7pg85taktdtem7470nf48xzes93u4dmzwqcyqqqqqqg257p8d


invariably


The National Juice Spectacular League


blocking VPNs?


😐 https://image.nostr.build/bea4885176a740102409ccc33299efde948abb5862bf90fa0cb580272e1bef80.jpg


It should be a separate league.


any way you slice it, hopping in an out will expose the user to timing attacks which degrade privacy.

and waiting around to defeat the timing attacks exposes the user to rugpull risk.

there isnt a good solution here.


monero is good money.

calling something a shitcoin because it isn't bitcoin
is an attack on bitcoin.


its smaller tx size than making every spend a coinjoin on bitcoin,

and you are already trusting cryptographic assertions with bitcoin so it's unreasonable to protest the Pedersen commitments that hide amounts in monero.


nostalgic 🙂


well that itself is already a problem


so tempting...

but gonna pass


So does their custom Android preserve privacy or not?


if breedlove or svetski was ever one of your heros, you have issues


got a '99 with only 130k on it 😎


i can't punch the people who run my local bank


lol ok

so cool but not terribly useful


"punch"?
who?

doesn't this just give you proof of rugpull?


much more concerned about reputation managing for anonymous mints than difficulty in spinning one up tbh

atm I would never give my btc to a mint i didn't personally IRL know and trust the members of

which considerably reduces the usefulness of fedimints...


woot

nostr:nevent1qqstka26p39ylp0qmpevn2manm0l5yfkgqh224z8nxpdv72swga6v9gvrepz8


the tech is pretty fucking cool.

But it does seem to be a case of "we CAN build this cool thing so lets do it"

without any regard for whether it actually solves a pressing problem.

tell me how you're going to solve the reputation problem for anonymous mints and I'll be interested.


yeah
like, price?

or anything other than sexy marketing footage?


Stuck in tradfi perspective
with just enough hacker perspective to get bitcoin

but not an anarchist


what are my options for LN?

Phoenix is all I've ever messed with.


ok I'll bite

what's a "zap?"


hahahahahaha
"adoption"
ahahahahaha


Kinda sad tbh

I mean, she's smart and has an engineering background.

You can talk about privacy all you want and criticize the industry for not taking it seriously.

...so why not protocol-level privacy?
smh


Lyn doesn't fuck with monero.


optimism is cool and all
seeing things how they are is better.

and there are no guarantees in life.


this was my setup on my previous daily driver.

do you have any critiques?


thats assuming a whole helluva lot homie

mandibles somewhere in the next 5-30 years is prob a better that 50-50 bet


shhh
let me have this


best way to learn 😀

nostr:nevent1qqsgcsglqj7efqn00nzlkkr6ym6s2enxgamnj2c3umyctkagfze35vgpr3mhxue69uhkummnw3ezucnfw33k76twv4ezuum0vd5kzmqzyp8t3qcs666wm9wx6e4rjkea8n64nwzl4my0w6ga4l2qt2fwq4wk6qcyqqqqqqgwxwt5m


microwaving only prevents standard means of recovery... 😳

imma brb


touché

i mean
people probably do

but it wouldn't be in keeping with the spirit of the painting would it?


of course they are 🙄

its just noise. what's DJT going to do for bitcoin?


a dear friend gave me this. Its called "The Stoic."

Now I'm wondering if I need to start hunting the local wild deer.
 https://image.nostr.build/2bb192d5564a421394c3dc14e8a8ab3bcd314de9b4583d9a4e57fc533aad867c.jpg


no monero 👎


starting to crush on ava pretty hard... 😳

nostr:nevent1qqsgcsglqj7efqn00nzlkkr6ym6s2enxgamnj2c3umyctkagfze35vgpr3mhxue69uhkummnw3ezucnfw33k76twv4ezuum0vd5kzmqzyp8t3qcs666wm9wx6e4rjkea8n64nwzl4my0w6ga4l2qt2fwq4wk6qcyqqqqqqgwxwt5m


the thing i never understood about Tails practically,
you then need a yubikey right? gotta keep your priv key somewhere...

I used Qubes as my daily for a while but i got tired of hacking around withirt.
so now I have several devices instead lol
it was easier to just have a few old laptops/multi boot setups.

forensic analysis isn't in my threat model
but curious


if I follow correctly
you mean rather than just using Qubes vms for everything?


what are you even talking about?


mfers will send a wall of unpunctuated run-on text
and when you're like "..."

theyll tell you to fuck off "I'm using voice"

maybe its better that some people cant communicate effectively tho.


nobody is calling it "marketing material" except the DOJ.

YOU ARE TAKING THEIR WORD THAT IS WHAT IT IS, THAT IT WAS USED IN THAT WAY AND ALREADY MAKING ALL KINDS OF ASSUMPTIONS ABOUT IT.

It is a jpg on a website and we know nothing else about it.

but for some reason you find the DOJ narrative very convincing and are already ready to convict them. (although constantly protesting you'd rather it was some other way)

and yet claim to be logical and realistic.

pretty weird honestly.


call it "voice" or whatever you want.

its an impenetrable wall of text that doesn't seem to make any logical conclusion.


one of the best routines ever.

RIP Bill
nostr:nevent1qqsp6secg3t9jkkcj667lhaddkc54pk07m66um5gzvdlvk3ferhr9dqpr3mhxue69uhkummnw3ezucnfw33k76twv4ezuum0vd5kzmqzyr02k7w6lgwzhe955mf6egf40dk25zm5f06x44ff5khyvs5g270xsqcyqqqqqqg4hdhac


"and we...
kill those people."

best standup who ever lived


......
not sure that long, unpuctuated run-on paragraph actually makes a point that relates to we were talking about.
yes indeed, they will stretch the law to try and incriminate the people they want to put away.
that why we contribute to their legal defense.

but
I was pointing out that you are taking the DOJs word re "marketing materials" and already imagining a pitch deck to Russian oligarch investors and DNM operators.
which is no doubt exactly the point of them releasing this material without any context.

what I mean is,
they DONT say that in the indictment. that is YOUR imagination.


You're super into reading into this aren't you?

That doesn't say "we charge people who want to wash illegally gained funds more money"


That wasn't me Mel.

I repeat. I've never mentioned the Netherlands to you.

Maybe check your own snark.


I haven't even mentioned the Netherlands once in any of our various threads

 so I'm thinking now you have some reading comprehension problems.

maybe its just nostr weirdness.


Nobody knows and we can only argue about what is known.

If this is all the DOJ has got then i think a lot will come down to if/how these jpgs were presented to investors.

If they were just files on someone's computer, their case probably goes nowhere.

if they have more in this vein, it will not go well for Samourai.

But the point is, you're taking THEIR word for it at this time.


I'm not claiming to be some legal expert Mel

I'm just pointing out the indictment gives no context for these jpegs and its ridiculous to take the DOJs word for what they are.


yeah yeah
and the Loyalists in the American Revolution were also just being "logical and realistic."


kids,
when the DOJ says they have "marketing materials proving the defendants conspired to assist criminals avoid law enforcement detection"

DONT always believe them unquestionably.

nostr:nevent1qqsfpsz3xjpg0v2rrz7c3ecvcaaef68gyxa8phdn52te6evtj8ucjvgpzemhxue69uhhyetvv9ujumn0wd68ytnzv9hxgq3qxsn2cx73w7837xhkqalzxr5f9prwn6cvnz4t0e60qa0luff7g4fqxpqqqqqqzazd374


Again,
you are pearl clutching over a jpg or two of what the DOJ (rather dogily) calls "marketing materials"

obviously you are happy to take their word for it and buy their line that these jpgs and their mention of "illicit" and "restricted" markets constitute "marketing their service to launder money" without any further context.

Sad.


That isn't in the indictment either.

Its not even possible with the way the platform is structured 🙄


It not a crime because there is no federal statute about operating a tor market.

It doesnt "promote money laundering" it simply acknowledges they have customers that use their service for illicit purposes.
That isnt "promoting money laundering."

you're pretty quick to jump up and down about "marketing money laundering services"
when essentially all we have is a jpeg in the indictment and the DOJs word for it.

you're acting like they took out a full page NYT ad WASH YOUR DNM BITCOIN WITH SAMOURAI

its not the same thing.
nowhere do they "promote money laundering" or advertise for that purpose.

although I have no doubt that is what the DOJ will argue and obviously you agree with them.

also expect their defense to make similar points to what i just did.
ie,
"having criminals as customers doesnt make you one."
"noncustodial platforms do not have KYC/AML burden"


As I said
acknowledging you have customers that use your product for criminal use-cases
is not a crime.

Using/operating a market over Tor is not a crime, although those markets are commonly used to buy illicit substances.

Those are true free markets.

There is nothing illegal happening on page 9. Obviously the DOJ thinks they can get a conspiracy conviction.

But only because enough people read into it the same way you are.


Its not there Mel. Read it again.


....however,

I do agree with your point that it's not a wise course of action to poke the bear and publicly acknowledge doing so.

It's just not illegal.
and I don't think its unethical either.


Skirting the law is actually not a crime.

Shouldn't even need to be said but here we are.


I'll take things that dont appear in the Samourai indictment for 300 Alex


There is nothing in the Samourai indictment where they are asked if they are able or willing to assist in money laundering.

nostr:nevent1qqs0a7e6t4n4wyf0faypl7hww0fgztf8ksf94xfk6ycjmemnlg83sxgpzemhxue69uhhyetvv9ujumn0wd68ytnzv9hxgq3qxsn2cx73w7837xhkqalzxr5f9prwn6cvnz4t0e60qa0luff7g4fqxpqqqqqqzl7r2f4


None of that appears in the indictment.

You appear to be making things up?


"You cant just get together and throw a bunch of tea in the harbor to protest unjust taxation. it's not gonna end well."

You can and you should Mel.


receipts please.

because that doesnt appear in the indictment.


Nothing that I know of but pokkst is the guy to ask. I can see what he has to say.


Yeah. love Gabriel.

Those are good too and they're in my rotation.

Also sometimes like this Chasing Ghosts pod. Although its about military history and insurgency and not Bitcoin.

Also Macrovoices for general econ perspective.

Sometimes The Survival Podcast has interesting stuff too.


for real.

right now I only listen to Watchmen regularly.
what else is there..?


ffs marty
not everything is fucking "leveraged"

sometimes we just "use" shit


Doug is NOT the best face for monero imo lol.

but what were you listening to that pissed you off?


No.

Samourai did nothing wrong.
Building a tool that criminals also use (~5%) does not make the tool or the builder criminal

Neither does publically or privately acknowledging criminal usage.

#freesamourai

nostr:nevent1qqsf53ctukxeupk5gh7lqqujzury7l206tjhm8xew6v3p82zs3ekqrcpzemhxue69uhhyetvv9ujumn0wd68ytnzv9hxgq3qxsn2cx73w7837xhkqalzxr5f9prwn6cvnz4t0e60qa0luff7g4fqxpqqqqqqz8cl27k