The *Holy See* (from the Latin _Sancta Sedes_, or Holy Chair/Seat) is the residence of the head of the [[Roman Catholic Church]] and is situated in the [[Vatican]].

https://www.newadvent.org/cathen/07424b.htm[The Catholic Encyclopedia] states:
____
...the term means, in a general sense, the actual seat (i.e. residence) of the supreme pastor of the Church, together with the various ecclesiastical authorities who constitute the central administration.

In this canonical and diplomatic sense, the term is synonymous with "Apostolic See", "Holy Apostolic See", "Roman Church", "Roman Curia".
____

The https://www.vatican.va/content/vatican/en.html[official website] of the Holy See contains most official documents and some news, as well as links to the various https://www.vatican.va/siti_va/index_va_en.htm[governmental agencies and ecclesiastical offices].

This is a wiki article about Holy See

You can read it on https://wikifreedia.xyz/a/naddr1qvzqqqrcvgpqqqgwwaehxw309ahx7uewd3hkctcqpp5x7mre94ek2egpl3dql


An *Antipope* is a person who is claiming to be the [[Pope]] of the [[Roman Catholic Church]], but who was not properly elected or who declared himself while another Pope was still in office.

According to https://www.ewtn.com/catholicism/library/anti-popes-10685[EWTN]:
____
There have been perhaps 30 or 40 Antipopes in the 2000-year history of the papacy.
____

https://www.newadvent.org/cathen/01582a.htm[New Advent] contains a list of most of them:

.Antipopes of the Roman Catholic Church
. Hippolytus (?), III century
. Novatian, 251
. Felix II, 355-365
. Ursicinus, 366-367
. Eulalius, 418-419
. Laurentius, 498-501
. Constantine II, 767
. Philip, VIII century
. Anastasius, 855
. Leo VIII, 956-963
. Boniface VII, 974
. John XVI, X century
. Gregory, 1012
. Sylvester III, 1044
. Benedict X, 1058
. Honorius II, 1061-72
. Guibert or Clement III, 1080-1100
. Theodoric, 1100
. Aleric, 1102
. Maginulf, 1105
. Burdin (Gregory VIII), 1118
. Anacletus II, 1130-38
. Victor IV, 1159-64
. Pascal III, 1164-68
. Calixtus III, 1168-77
. Innocent III, 1178-80
. Nicholas V, 1328-30
. Robert of Geneva (Clement VII), 20 September, 1378 to 16 September, 1394
. Amadeus of Savoy (Felix V), November, 1439 to April, 1449

This is a wiki article about Antipope

You can read it on https://wikifreedia.xyz/a/naddr1qvzqqqrcvgpqqqgwwaehxw309ahx7uewd3hkctcqppskuarfwphhqeghpf04q


fr


I'm going to take this opportunity to note that our team is going to begin measuring and publishing relay and website response times and uptime.

We will make pretty charts, promise. 🤩


Can immediately feel my responses go radio-silent. 😂


Ah, a Monero version of Nostrudel. Cool.


Primal.net down?


He's a real hardliner. It happens.


It's like how people from the USA are called "Americans",  but Canadians and etc. are also Americans.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catholic_(disambiguation)


Interesting. Hadn't seen those before.


30040 is an index, that contains an ordered list of 30040 and 30041 events, and 30041 is a zettel, that contains the actual content.


nostr:npub16xc333smpl92c0v730404zae5eyue6fpw44gl47zrj5hkjv9kwxsj54jqm

nostr:npub1cpstx8lzhwctunfe80rugz5qsj9ztw8surec9j6mf8phha68dj6qhm8j5e

Which (out of copyright) Bible editions would you recommend?


We're planning on the KJV as the next one, and then the Lutherbibel (in German).


Yes, that's definitely planned. 👍🏼

30041s will be highlightable and 30040s will be receiving Kind 1111 comments.


Each verse is going to be a separate zettel event, so we'll be able to embedded individual Bible verses in other notes. 🥳

The indexes over each verse will be chapters and chapters will be grouped into books. Once all of the books are events, I'll be pulling them into more indexes, for example Gospel:NewTestament:Bible, so that there's a hierarchical ToC with 4 levels.


Well, okay, that's just a dragged-out version. We also have to voice consent, beforehand, at confession.


Okay, got the first full #Bible preformatted in Asciidoc, ready for the #Alexandria parser. 🙏🏼

https://github.com/ShadowySupercode/gitcitadel/tree/master/eBooks/Bible/Completed


I meant, how can I use it to pull notes from other relays onto theforest, instead of the faucet?


Well, I'm assuming that they have to confirm their assent, somehow. Otherwise, you could just have two random people stand there and marry them, without their consent.

At least nod, or give a 👍 , or say "I do", or something.


I have a non auth relay. How do I control this?


Oh, just test automation stuff, in Python. I've been avoiding Python.


🤣  It actually makes more sense, in Bavarian, since they tend to be loud-talkers. 😅


Ja, mir san hoit mir. Mir san mit'm Radl da... zum Saufa.


Living in Bavaria is interesting because there are so many engineers and technicians, here, that energy modernization, drones and environmental sensors, and electrical motor developments aren't as much of a politically-polarizing topic.

It's just stuff that guys fiddle with, like they all used to mess around with old cars or vintage tractors. Now, they sit around the Stammtisch and compare solar panel monitoring apps, or talk about how they hooked up a Bitcoin miner to the wood-burning water heater in their barn.

Laptop and Lederhosen is real.

https://www.toonpool.com/user/100/files/laptop_und_lederhose_229175.jpg


Our understanding of it changed a bit, after the significance, design, and purpose of marriage as a vocation was clarified for us by Christ and St. Paul. Obviously, the sacramental vows of a marriage conducted by a priest are the marital Gold Standard.

People who don't accept marriage as a sacrament will naturally be perplexed by vows of celibacy, as they don't have the religious concept of "vocations".


Marriage is a natural institution, yes, so it predates the establishment of the Church on Earth. That's why bride and groom marry each other, directly. There is no third party necessary to create a marriage, and you don't need to be Christian to marry.


GM


Nothing ever gets repaired, anymore.

Guess they should have paid repairmen more, so that we'd still have some.


It's true. And reverse-sexism has been bad for both sexes, in IT.


No biggie. It'd be like... sorta like... the ReplyGuy spawned 1 million ReplyBabies.


I'm just thinking aloud here... but.... like... locust.

https://media.tenor.com/M36Sgq5PfEsAAAAC/pam-office.gif


https://image.nostr.build/378cea4e196400a7cd64e5bc5332272b0ff712fc055259c63fea7cc064ae786e.png
#devs


So that you can use the relays as an archive?


So, an alias?


The problem with doing it with a list, is that the list is limited in size-right? Could never use it for a big newsletter, or anything.


Well, I thought the idea was that the GC-Devs npub publishes the list.

But this would have to work like my attestation spec, where one side publishes the list, and the list members have to issue a confirmation that they want to be on the list. Or something.


Wen negentropy?
#askingforafriend


metadata.nostr1.com keeps a backup. As does hist.nostr.land, I think.


Wouldn't that just be a kind of list? 🤔  Like... a mailing list, list?


🥳

nostr:npub1qdjn8j4gwgmkj3k5un775nq6q3q7mguv5tvajstmkdsqdja2havq03fqm7 nostr:npub1wqfzz2p880wq0tumuae9lfwyhs8uz35xd0kr34zrvrwyh3kvrzuskcqsyn


The reviews _are_ comments. Kind 1111. We're going to have zaps and comments on 30040 and zaps and highlights on 30041, probably.


"confirmed cat girl" 💯


And, I'm thinking, I don't know if you need to recreate the 30040 HTML pages every single time, or if you could have server-side storage and just check if it's up to date, before starting the download. The only really "dynamic" part is the reviews and highlights and etc., but you could process them, separately.

Don't know, which is faster and more-efficient.


It's more the question of what you download, to view offline. You have to have some static page, at some point. If the page were to be created, dynamically, as you read it, (to keep the likes and etc. up-to-date, and incorporate changes to your npub, like adding follows) then you would need to stream the changes. Which is difficult, when working offline or on ePaper.

If you create it server-side and then pull the finished page, then it'd have to be stored someplace, before moving it to your device. I guess, you could store it in your browser cache, on a different device, but then you have to have a device in-between the server and your ePaper device.


It makes more sense to do this with #Alexandria modular articles, than with kind 01 notes, as the former rarely changes and there's no constant interaction. Also, you'll be more inclined to download an entire book or multiple books, to your e-paper reader, and read it offline.

You'd just add/peruse the occasional highlight or bookmark, and have reviews of the book, at the end, or something. That doesn't have to be really fast or update by the minute.

nostr:nevent1qvzqqqqqqypzplfq3m5v3u5r0q9f255fdeyz8nyac6lagssx8zy4wugxjs8ajf7pqydhwumn8ghj7argv4nx7un9wd6zumn0wd68yvfwvdhk6tcpr3mhxue69uhhg6r9vd5hgctyv4kzumn0wd68yvfwvdhk6tcqyrmayyvf0lp25phmd97g69f07tms8sjgcr89k0yll9tq8ded59srcyuwef9


Here's a static article. It'd end up looking like this, but usually much longer.

https://njump.me/naddr1qvzqqqr4gupzplfq3m5v3u5r0q9f255fdeyz8nyac6lagssx8zy4wugxjs8ajf7pqydhwumn8ghj7argv4nx7un9wd6zumn0wd68yvfwvdhk6tcpr3mhxue69uhhg6r9vd5hgctyv4kzumn0wd68yvfwvdhk6tcqp5cnwv3hxscnvvpjx5cnsvcz7c0gw


Remember how we tested out our eReaders with the Nostr clients and only njump showed the notes? Static webpages, ftw. 🤷♀

This is a static version of a 30040 index, that works on an e-reader, with the e-tags clickable, to see the content. We'd just have to build something akin to this and make it look pretty.

https://njump.me/nevent1qqsd087tvq2mk658gghlcqhvkgw7jc0vk6ct34wvmrr7nymc9vh38psprpmhxue69uhhyetvv9ujumn0wdmksetjv5hxxmmdqgs9wd35keyxxn966y8jg5thvzy75ggfpk2q0ac4aq79w76xzxhxahq9u3g28


I hate when they have typos everywhere, too, from crappy scanning.

Yeah, we're also going to have an ePaper version, so that you can choose to actually read the original notes on your eReader, rather than needing to create the ePub first. Sort of like njump: no websocket.
But, it's essential that people can generate quality LateX, PDF, ePUB, etc. directly from their notes, and that they can have them printed in physical form. The notes and the paper/epaper need to look the same. WYSIWYG and all that jazz.

We're going to offer to auto-generate auxiliary text, like indexes and summaries, and translations, yeah. Already practicing. 🙂  Including on videos. 👀

It'll be the first backend-heavy Nostr client. Closest we've come to that, so far, is Ditto, I guess, but this is going to be very relay-forward. No magic between the client and the relay. Want to keep the core very clean and neat, so that people can easily fork, self-host, and improve it. But all of the whizz-bang stuff will need some data storage and some processing power, even if some of it can be done in the browser.


When you wake up and decide to create a sw project in a different language and you know you'll have to setup the environment and figure out where to start from, and you find that totally annoying, so you blow off steam for a few hours with some shitposting, instead, and then you look at the clock and it's like,

Time, what a bitch you are.

https://media.tenor.com/M2kvy9zBBfgAAAAC/j-lo-jennifer-lopez.gif

#devs


That's why we switched to Asciidoc+Svelte. You can dictate more of the formatting and metadata that way, so that you can define what the finished product will look like and don't need extra publishing software to export.


I can just see nostr:npub1wqfzz2p880wq0tumuae9lfwyhs8uz35xd0kr34zrvrwyh3kvrzuskcqsyn now, sitting down, with his morning coffee, all, "Nice weather, out. 😊 Mmm... Lovely day. Oh, look, isn't that nice? nostr:npub1l5sga6xg72phsz5422ykujprejwud075ggrr3z2hwyrfgr7eylqstegx9z has been noting something. Wonder what the topic... Ugh."

https://media.tenor.com/nkeeGlIpub8AAAAC/dr-phil-gasp.gif


Like, sexy isn't everything and whatnot, and I don't mean to brag or whatever...

But the nostr:npub1s3ht77dq4zqnya8vjun5jp3p44pr794ru36d0ltxu65chljw8xjqd975wz team has -- hands down, not up for debate -- the hottest software developers on it.

And I am also on the team.

#justsaying


Found another "smart" guy, suffering among the Nostr Luddites, nostr:npub1m3xdppkd0njmrqe2ma8a6ys39zvgp5k8u22mev8xsnqp4nh80srqhqa5sf 😂


Good morning.


*hides collection of adorable cat ear headbands*

https://media.tenor.com/kMUhWQeutnkAAAAC/true.gif


I'm allowed to be a #sissydev , cuz I'm a girl and I get to benefit from low expectations.

https://media.tenor.com/H0NGX0asHPsAAAAC/mean-girls.gif


tomboys, ftw


His antisocial, autistic ass is programming on Nostr, now. 😅

🏀


I made a meme.
Few will understand.
It's funny, tho.
Please zap.

https://i.nostr.build/EPtS71fzPrBr2JJ2.png

#sissydevs


Because I'm actually just a software developer who shitposts. 😅


Literally me, 25 years ago. 🤣
Now, I just look at that and shudder, but I used to shrug.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HmOhnIglFnM


Can you check, and fix it, if it doesn't?

#askingforafriend


It's like that for all of us. I used to be able to do jump-splits, but that would probably break my hip, now. 😅


Being a trophy sounds like a sweet deal. Just have to subsist off of green smoothies and/or steak, and hang out all day at the gym or the pool.

I'm more the housekeeper-who-pays-for-your-next-car-with-her-side-gig-does-your-taxes-and-revamps-your-devops-toolchain type of wife, but we can't all be winners.
At least, he has zero interest in replacing me. 😅  I mean, like, where do you get a second one, KWIM? Job security, ftw.


Heh heh. Fear of C++ is real.


GM!

if you grow too much 'influence', the universe will focus on you too much and your quantum entangled fleshy supercomputer in your dome was not designed for this many connections.

so then you'll retreat, hand over your keys to the sales dept, become aloof and disconnected from the very thing you were wanting:  connection.

in the future, nostr clients in harmony with relays can act as a reach dial, to dial up or down your reach.  so that you can connect on some things and monetize your influence on others.


What what what? 👀


Do you ever wonder what your life would be like, if you'd just married a gazillionaire and retired at 25 with a watertight prenup?

Yeah. I never wonder about that, either.


The freckles aren't as bad, anymore, thankfully. This was a very freckally summer.


Same. YOLO.

nostr:note1x6vc3jr3q4vmee2phxkdfsu96puy024k8q6v4jh7zk8pwhzc0fgqz555ll


https://image.nostr.build/c2a4b2d2b9f2918c880c49add579f59436cfefcf229f58d6c082f465eeb5aeac.png

#devs #nips


I could copy as text, but I got this error message. Looks normal to me, just FYI.

https://image.nostr.build/eedaca179e39acab9393626836ed35ac1eb7b30fdc51e8357c57114493ab0fdc.png


I can't think of anything to use it for, tho, that we can't do better with something simpler. It's sorta complex.


Just saw that my hubby has Kubernetes running on the LAN and it's like ooooooohhhhh... 👀


Kubernetes or nah?


You probably know more than I do. 😅
Today will be a day of much news-podcast listening. Need to catch up on the political and economic gossip.


I feel like this is Peak Selfie. Just pinned the note and retiring the camera. Only downhill from here. Best to stop, when you're ahead. 🤣


FPÖ leads Austrian election result.

https://image.nostr.build/f4ffc86c901225b6eb0b84cbacac23e8578860954ab2de5359de55badfc312d1.png


I've been barely following the news. Glued to my command line, all day, nowadays, but I heard about this on the radio.

Just think it's outrageous that the official commentators are like "So many people came out to vote and then nearly 30% voted wrong! 😭 ". Like, what the actual fuck sort of opinion is that? 😅  No wonder everyone hates them. You can't just write off the opinions of A THIRD OF THE SOVEREIGN. Good grief.


I read about the craziness going on with the election politics in Thuringen (sp?).  Crazy that the courts ruled that the AfD, who got the most votes of any party, was being undemocratic because they followed the law  and that the courts made it so they don't have the blocking minority they should.  Crazy times.

This was one of the 2 articles I read.  https://www.eugyppius.com/p/thuringian-parliament-descends-into


GM


I don't understand what I'm looking at, in the detail.


Is there maybe some setting where I can set an upper-fee limit? Maybe that's too low.


Picture is gigantic on the laptop. 😅


Self-portrait of a lady

https://image.nostr.build/a0b38869b6066b7e9bcf41fa610aa197bba054bd33e832930f748dce4b7d427a.jpg


25k also doesn't work. Does seem to be a sat-amount issue. What is the upper-limit for a transaction? Could this be related to fees?


Zapping 10 sats in and out, worked. 1000 sats also worked. 50k sats didn't work.

Is it possible, that I'm hitting some cap on larger amounts, but it's not producing an error and just hanging, instead?


theforest.nostr1.com and thecitadel.nostr1.com are on it

Let me try test-zapping to it, rather than from it.


Oh, okay, now I see the event. Don't know why it wasn't threading properly again.

Let me go check the wallet.


Check what?


Private groups create a new npub that controls the keys and I can't seem to get the keys from it. With the second one, I had the keys, but now they seem to be lost. No idea, how. It was working for weeks, and then it suddenly stopped.

All on Coracle. I don't think anyone else has them, yet.


Hi! I've been using it for weeks, without any major issues, but for the past few days, whenever I try to send LN to an invoice, it just spins and spins and spins. I have notifications allowed (and I used to see them) and I am using the newest version.


I wasn't sure, so I moved all three wallets this month. Just in case.


I somehow remember them talking about everyone needing to be off by October.


Custodial #Alby accounts end this week, right?


Does anyone know how to fix #Minibits?


I'm now trying (and failing, over and over) to move the money out of minibits and into alby. Minibits just flat-out doesn't work, anymore, and I have no idea why.


I finally have Alby Hub on my laptop, under the address silberengel@getalby.com. 🎉


I have two private groups, but have lost access to both of them, so they're just relay spam, now.

Anything using encryption as an admin function is destined to be flaky. #Devs,  please stick to moderating the flow of information over the architecture, such as relays. This is simpler and more effective.

You can still encrypt the content and restrict access, after all, or change the group's relays.


I only read from thecitadel, christpill, and theforest. I pull from further relays into theforest, over an allow list. I write to a whole list of relays, mostly paid, topical, local, and WoT. It took me nearly two weeks, to get this setup, but it seems to work reasonable well, in some clients, and it is a peaceful existence.

https://media.tenor.com/CNjccHKd6OcAAAAC/i-just-want-the-simple-life-simple-life.gif


It might also not like my ZeroFollows policy. The clients all really hate that. 😅


I'm on the laptop a lot and Gossip didn't work for me, anymore (used to work well, no idea why).


Yeah, Amethyst with nsec worked better than with Amber.


The idea is that some app might actually want to use one of the private relays as a mailbox (a community app, or OtherStuff app), but they could look for their own relays among the private ones, while other apps can ignore them.


I'm kind of worn out, trying to setup relays in my various environments (browsers, devices, clients, etc.). Would be nice to have some simple way of porting "utility" or "private" relay information, without them getting caught up in the outbox model, or needing to maintain x number of relay lists.

Made a suggestion.

https://github.com/nostr-protocol/nips/pull/1521


Might be because I use so many special relays and it tries to write/read all over the list.


Okay, it's already an open issue.

https://github.com/coracle-social/coracle/issues/353


Seems to be this, but I don't know enough about the language to remove it. Can apparently only use "shareable relays", no private relays.

import {isShareableRelayUrl} from "@welshman/util"


I tried that last week, but it froze twice and I gave up. No idea what happened, there.


One thing, that I find confusing, on Coracle, is the way the profile view isn't a timeline. That's the only page that really needs a chronological feed, IMO.


Coracle doesn't seem to like the Firefox+Nos2x-fox combination. Something about the way they do permissions causes the permission requests to repeat over and over. I have the same issue with Yakihonne, that's why I've never been able to login.

It runs relatively smoothly in Chrome with Nostr Connect extension, but is refusing my local relay.


It took me 8 tries, including stopping and starting the app, and clearing the cache, before I could get my relay settings to stick. And then it started crashing, about a week later, for no apparent reason. Some performance issue, I suspect, otherwise it wouldn't be effected by time. I suspect Amethyst is just too resource-heavy for my phone, even in low-data mode.

Also, anything using the Amber signer is going to be iffy. I have so many different npubs in use, and my phone is so slow, that it goes nuts on me.

Adding local relays is a non-starter in most clients, as well. They usually insist on wss:// prefix.


Especially, as the errors aren't on some obscure feature. They're on logging in, writing a note to a relay, seeing replies, etc.


I have tried all of these clients out this week, and none worked reliably (including persistent settings, remote or extension signing, full threading from one relay, a correct implementation of AUTH and outbox, the ability to set my own relays and alter WoT, feed and notification actualisation within 5 minutes of relay receipt, and not crashing or stalling out for more than 30 seconds during minimum 1 hour of use):

* Nostrudel Next (normal one doesn't work, for me)
* Nostter
* Freerse
* Primal, web and Android
* Voyage
* Amethyst
* Flycat
* Highlighter
* Wikifreedia
* Wikistr
* Habla
* Coracle web

Coracle came the closest.


I gave up on follows. I "follow" by adding people to our relay. Much more persistent.

Yeah, I figured, that you hadn't seen it. Every thread is so disjointed. 😭


Yeah, but the same applies to every npub. It's not like in real life, where you can change the group you're talking to, or people eventually forget what you said, and you can move on.

That's why they all only want to use it totally anon, usually with nothing but single-use npubs.

There is no real market for that, tho.


Yeah, but it's mostly a cultural effect. They do it because that's "how you do it".


It used to be even worse. Hard to imagine that it was even worse. 😅

More and more of us are just refusing to give up and we just keep posting our stuff and whatever. At some point, we might reach critical mass.


this


There is no algo here
Welcome to freedomtech
Don't expect things to work
Make sure you follow at least 500 people
If you want anyone to see you, make sure you reply every day to whatever the biggest npubs have posted
GM and GFY


Few 🤝


I see it more from people who switch back and forth from x. The people who are OnlyNostr seem to have more normal conversations. Even when they talk about Bitcoin, they talk about it like normal humans do, and not like billboard signs.

My own relay is nearly devoid of it, which I like. 😅


Both Spotify and cassettes deliver music. This is more like talking to yourself or talking to a group of people, who might respond and interact with you. Those are two completely different actions, not the same action done in two different ways.

I don't see the point in social media without socializing. That's the sort of thing people do, whose neighbors appear on the 9 o'clock news, completely shell-shocked, to say, "He always seemed like a nice, young man. Kept himself to himself..."


Another reply that took effort, but was a waste of time.


Me in 30 years:

"It was a bad week, okay? Anyone could have a bad week."


😅  But seriously, I sometimes wonder about those people who are like, "It's really important to me that I have a permanent public record of everything I've ever written down".

Like, these are not real humans, are they?


Ah, that's very efficient. I should add that to the list.

Also need to add "relay operator shuts off relay and formats his hard drive".


#4? Doesn't seem to work because they store everything forever.

It wouldn't surprise me, to find out that some of the forever-storage relays are run by the NSA or the IRS, or something. Seems like the sort of thing a fed would do, to collect incriminating evidence of breaking laws that haven't been written yet.


Same. Wish they all offered that. I think Ditto has it.


ARE YOU LITERALLY AS DUMB AS A ROCK? BECAUSE YOU ARE DOING A GREAT IMPRESSION OF A ROCK.

WHY DON'T YOU GO TAKE YOUR IGNORANT BLATHER, IN YOUR DEAF OLD MAN CAPSLOCK, AND STICK IT WHERE THE SUN DOESN'T SHINE?

#ASKINGFORAFRIEND


And community relays. Difficult to moderate, otherwise.


Going to try actively using them, more, so that they have more signal.


Hotrightnow and Christpill would probably be two of the most-lively relays, if you could look directly at the feed.


People don't care about building communities, when they're in the majority, because everyone around them is part of their community, except for a few oddballs.

We oddballs would like to have communities.


GM


Expanding his test cases would give relays the sort of test suite that clients can only dream of.


Did you write them down, someplace? I'd be interested.


Have you tried nostr:npub1acg6thl5psv62405rljzkj8spesceyfz2c32udakc2ak0dmvfeyse9p35c relay tests? nostr:npub1fjqqy4a93z5zsjwsfxqhc2764kvykfdyttvldkkkdera8dr78vhsmmleku was writing about them.


Haven't put it to the test, yet. Still struggling with getting clients to write to localhost, but Nostrudel and Nostter on Chrome seem to write consistently, to my nostr-rs relay.

Generally find the relays more reliable than the clients, which is one reason I want to move controls to the relays. Backend devs, ftw.


Everything should be in order.


Well,  nostr:npub1f6ugxyxkknket3kkdgu4k0fu74vmshawermkj8d06sz6jts9t4kslazcka, too. But, yeah, that's all I can think of.

TheForrest relay is most-diverse relay, funnily enough, cuz I'm a bit of a people-collector. All sorts of people, so that I don't get bored.


That's always sort of mildly-unsettling, isn't it? I'm so used to going to Mass, that I'm upset when it doesn't happen.


Alles muss in Ordnung sein.


I was so tired, that I nodded off, sitting upright, right before collection, and the women behind me started poking me, to get up. 😅

But I made it! Still counts.


The problem was blastr broadcasting everything to everyone, all day, every day. Including spam! The spammers used blastr.


TIL that there are places where people don't do Stoßlüften.


this seems like something I should understand, to test


Another group with a lot of potential is actually orthodox (spelled with a small "o") Christians. There's no "bigger" social media aimed at serving them, and they are a large, highly-literate, politically-persecuted minority, so they tend to spend a lot of time online.

We've been focusing on applications they might like, for that reason. Nostr seems like a good fit and they are over-represented here, already. Just no real "gathering place", yet. Hope #Alexandria can provide that.


If you are a prolific poster, how do you keep from perma-spamming everyone's relays with your mental spewings?

1. Use expiring notes.
2. Mass-delete notes, periodically (leaving the same number of deletion-events).
3. Issue a kind 62 event, to delete everything-until-today, so that they only need to save one event.
4. Move to a new npub, take the interesting articles and stuff to the new one, by copying the content, and then nuking the old one and hoping they eventually let its events drop off their relay due to dormancy?
5. Something I haven't thought of.
6. Fuck relay operators. Save everything, everywhere, forever.


Oh, right. Yeah, catch 22. Deletions on Nostr are so retarded, geez.


I don't know why I bothered to write that. I know precisely one client developer who would bother to run that test and he already has me testing his stuff. 🤣


It's a vicious cycle. Person not interested in BitcoinTwitter opens Nostr app, sees nothing but BitcoinTwitter, keeps seeing nothing but BitcoinTwitter, closes Nostr app. 😭


Oh, brutal. 😬


How do you handle this,  nostr:npub10npj3gydmv40m70ehemmal6vsdyfl7tewgvz043g54p0x23y0s8qzztl5h? Or do you just store everything, forever?


3/

The simplest thing is to just not accept kind 01 notes older than x date, and then you can delete all of the deletion requests for those older notes.


2/

Because people broadcast the old notes to your relay, periodically, so if you don't store the deletion-events, they start reappearing and then we'd have to send you the deletion event _again_


That would only make sense, if you stopped accepting any new events from that npub, by blacklisting them on your relay.


Same. The screens just have higher resolution, now.


They always do that, so that, if the note ever trickles in, later, it doesn't show up in REQs.

I think I'm going to start publishing notes with an expiration date, so that they don't have to save deletion requests.


Yeah, very difficult to just do your own thing, on here. Everything is setup, to encourage us all to follow and interact with a small handful of people, on a small handful of relays, using clients built by a small handful of devs. Extremely concentrated, ironically.

Not living up to the potential, at all.


Ha ha! That first meme goes so hard.


My deletion script does the same. They all do. We have to correct for everyone use the Mutiny blastr, which does the same thing, when broadcasting.

I'm changing mine, so that it goes through the list, finds out which kind 01 notes are on that specific relay (if any) and then only sends deletion requests for those specific notes. But this is much slower, than just blasting every deletion request for every note ever produced.

I have like 50k notes, so you can imagine the deletion spam...


This is the first happy-path test every client needs to pass:

1. setup client with one relay, and only one relay
2. write note to that relay with npub1
3. write response to that note, on the same relay and without using relay hints, with npub2
4. go back to main thread
5. click on the first note
6. see reply to the note ✅
7. go to notifications for npub1
8. reply from npub2 is visible ✅
9. click on reply
10. when reply opens, original post (previous note) is visible and correctly threaded to reply ✅


Yeah, same. Been hanging out on my own relay, where I know everyone.

Unfortunately, most of the people I know don't use outboxes, so I've completely dropped off their screens. Oh well.


Hi!


Yes, but only in the thread. Notifications are always either empty or old, and I never get some of them.

They must go to Nostr Purgatory, where all of the naughty notes end up, along with the draft Minibits zaps, and the disconnected bits of threading.


😭  That _is_ a valid relay URL!

https://image.nostr.build/937f82b351d0d6812ed6c90ba3744c0b35f82969bd4872a92bfa07cacc796ac3.png


My notifications be like
https://image.nostr.build/45624ddd447007a3e11f10ea38c6e464777dab540e332e511909c61ae984c2e8.png


I actually have a self-hosted strfry relay, in addition to three (and, if this next build works out, four) other ones. But Oddbean is beyond me, and that's not the relay whose data I want to use for this client.

The frustration. Is real.


Spend less time adding snazzy features and more time making sure core features work.


💯  You speak the truth.


Straight to trending. 😅


Much easier.
Post a picture of your bare tits, some vegetables, be a dev of a popular client, or be well-known from someplace else, basically.

Influencing for beginners.

Or just be an honest gamer and offer sats for boosts. I actually respect that because they're like, "Okay, let's just cut the crap..."


All the weird UX problems you see are the direct result of developers not being heavy users of the things that they build.

They don't really know how their stuff works in a normal production environment, and they don't really care.


Religions tend to have rules against usury, false weights and measures, and counterfeiting, so hard money is preferred. And we like philosophizing about economic incentives and stuff.


Feminists found an easy way to placate men.


Same. Served at the evening mass, then came home and went straight to bed.


Gray
https://image.nostr.build/9b58fcae0eff308445716c0b43294f49f09afe815bafd71bad873926f8977b01.jpg


🫂 GM Maria.


Decided to escape the rat race and leave this one completely unadulterated.

Literally me.


Self-portrait of a lady

https://image.nostr.build/a0b38869b6066b7e9bcf41fa610aa197bba054bd33e832930f748dce4b7d427a.jpg


Twitter was thousands of people standing on a stage, talking down to their millions of adoring fans.

Nostr is the same, but with two fewer decimal places.


Yeah, bad UX becomes a tradition.


#metoo , increasingly. If they say something interesting, I'm going to quote-post, and discuss it with people who might actually respond.

Tired of the humiliation ritual of talking to a virtual wall.


It's not just the mockup, tho. It's thinking about workflows and use cases.

That's the part developers tend to be the worst at, and it gets you no cool points, so they just skip it.


My posts with the most engagement are on Slack, Telegram, or Simplex. They can go on for hours and are highly informative and entertaining.

Everyone is equal there.


It would still be the same notes, but people often aren't talking about the OP in the thread.

They're just random notes from big accounts.

nostr:note13z25crkj5srmhnn0fnlgxgs7qfwajc0euwft2a00r2w5qdtkfr8slppxn8


The UX and the quality are so often bad, here, because that's the part you figure out _before_ you start coding, and the part that is hardest to change _after_ you're done coding.


Do you know, nostr:npub1m0yz3nytx0h6wwnqecnmlnmwqw0avq409z0hm6m304mx4mtc5e3swfn7u6 ?


GM

It's 5:14 am. I've literally lost the ability to sleep in.

nostr:nevent1qvzqqqqqqypzplfq3m5v3u5r0q9f255fdeyz8nyac6lagssx8zy4wugxjs8ajf7pqydhwumn8ghj7argv4nx7un9wd6zumn0wd68yvfwvdhk6tcpr3mhxue69uhhg6r9vd5hgctyv4kzumn0wd68yvfwvdhk6tcqyznu6nv089t3l3eyr4y9x47a8tgf5ra4mau379mlt2j2j7acdu7a6svsehm


It's all just Twitter 2.0, Instagram 2.0, YouTube 2.0...

Like... we already have the originals. Build something that can only be built with Nostr.


I totally felt that.

Everyone skips right over simple, efficient solutions, to join the hype.


And creep everyone out? 👀😂


It's not too early, but we're having to completely rethink a lot of core things. Design and UX should determine the tech spec, but it's been the other way around, and now it can be difficult to change things.


nostr:npub149p5act9a5qm9p47elp8w8h3wpwn2d7s2xecw2ygnrxqp4wgsklq9g722q and I, I suppose. Out of necessity.


You don't even want to know what's behind them. I'd run away from my own inner monologue, if I could.

https://media.tenor.com/JiEyyeRWEMcAAAAC/it-is-known-yes.gif


Who’s spearheading the nostr UX development?

Are there any grants focusing on this?
Are we already at the point from a technical perspective or is all what we’re talking about coming naturally and this is just sooo early?

nostr:note1xt4tl34p2u3jl735thdvalc4eutqsyzv7vca4za62y8vtc0grn2q0zkpzr


My project team. We're all geographically spread-out. 😭


I did #FotoFriday, instead.


Damn, I'm fucking stupid.
I just knew it!


Satlantis and Alexandria are part of the shift. Oriented toward people who don't necessarily care about Nostr.


Mood.
https://image.nostr.build/50f6a572ed49cb4e832bcb1f940faf63f0342ff13a267d3764584daeda95794c.png


Lethargy and being swollen up like a balloon, due to exhaustion and dehydration.


Some clients already have it.


Don't block Nostr. I use that with dev. 🙈


Previous reply.


I made a NUD pull-request on the NIPs repo.

nostr:note1064f4th6lky9psuz6ujhspgsank2upq79pqwuxwjw3trl3pa7rcsu2lqsz


A clients' global feed is the unadulterated feed from _all_ of the read relays.

So, I only see from theforest, but if I add more relays, I'd see more different stuff.


Yeah, the idea is that we store it with all of the metadata in tags, then I create NUDs for each one, and then people can pull the NUD data and filter/sort/store-in-database, etc.


= Nostr Event Register

This is a register of all of the Nostr event kinds documented in a repository, a note, or on any other publicly-accessible location, that I could find in regular use someplace. I have changed it to a https://github.com/ShadowySupercode/gitcitadel/blob/master/wikiPages/nostr-event-register.json[json version], to make it more useful for others and to prepare for the publication of NUDs for all entries.

An alternative json version, based upon the ReadMe in the NIPs repo, is located in https://github.com/laanwj/nips-json[laanwj's repo].

Please feel free to suggest changes to the register, by contacting me, or fork this note and list an additional hyperlink.

This is a wiki article about Nostr Event Register

You can read it on https://wikifreedia.xyz/a/naddr1qvzqqqrcvgpqqqgwwaehxw309ahx7uewd3hkctcqz3hx7um5wgkk2an9de6z6un9va5hxar9wgqmaevw


I suspect we can see a "relay divide" in the results. People who intentionally-select relays are probably more-inclined to look the global feed.

nostr:note1332vmylgz5kylv3efndxp5gh2zdq2r82h23fr8d223ksyhk0j5sspsnp23


Example event.

https://github.com/ShadowySupercode/gitcitadel/blob/master/wikiPages/example-nud.json


I guess that'd be nested.


I'm referring to this issue: https://github.com/nostr-protocol/nips/issues/1470

I guess I should then reverse the context, to
1 NIP : n Kinds


nostr:npub1jlrs53pkdfjnts29kveljul2sm0actt6n8dxrrzqcersttvcuv3qdjynqn nostr:npub180cvv07tjdrrgpa0j7j7tmnyl2yr6yr7l8j4s3evf6u64th6gkwsyjh6w6
nostr:npub1wqfzz2p880wq0tumuae9lfwyhs8uz35xd0kr34zrvrwyh3kvrzuskcqsyn

What data am I still missing, to generate the 30818 NUDs? Do I really need to include the full spec content (in Asciidoc, I presume, so I'd update and pull from the relevant wiki event content for all of the specs) or is the spec reference-link enough? Should I add a description tag, with a little summary of what the NUD covers? Is there an example on a relay, someplace?

FYI: the NUD spec
https://github.com/nostr-protocol/nips/blob/nuds/71.md


nostr:npub1w4uswmv6lu9yel005l3qgheysmr7tk9uvwluddznju3nuxalevvs2d0jr5  here are two versions, for you.


here we go: https://github.com/laanwj/nips-json

this contains all the lists and tables from the README in json format, as well as the python script used to parse and generate them

nostr:nevent1qvzqqqqqqypzqz4rnedwlxdqqznmmv95ny2cey4uf23qldjexxjj6p2mt6mdlaecqy2hwumn8ghj7un9d3shjtnyv9kh2uewd9hj7qgwwaehxw309ahx7uewd3hkctcqyqqqqhafu9lp8fjzkegas4va3csjd74gcvap0vl7az3m53vfm2m6kj33tmj


And my version, to include the NUDs.

https://github.com/ShadowySupercode/gitcitadel/blob/master/wikiPages/nostr-event-register.json


well, that's how Coracle sort of does it


The problem is that you can't tell where "conversations" are, merely by looking at the OPs. That means everyone only opens the threads of the very biggest npubs, since they _know_ that there are always convos there.

The conversations thread is a work-around, to see where humans are hanging out, since we don't yet have any sort of heatmap.


You can see the feed here. No man-made horrors beyond comprehension, promise. 🥰
https://theforest.nostr1.com/


Means you have horrible relays. 😅

Look at the global for wss://theforest.nostr1.com . You're whitelisted on that one.


Just saw that  nostr:npub1fq8vrf63vsrqjrwqgtwlvauqauc0yme6se8g8dqhcpf6tfs3equqntmzut has got an elasticsearch version on github. 👀

https://github.com/layer-systems/search

 nostr:npub1ecdlntvjzexlyfale2egzvvncc8tgqsaxkl5hw7xlgjv2cxs705s9qs735  nostr:npub1wqfzz2p880wq0tumuae9lfwyhs8uz35xd0kr34zrvrwyh3kvrzuskcqsyn  nostr:npub1qdjn8j4gwgmkj3k5un775nq6q3q7mguv5tvajstmkdsqdja2havq03fqm7


I know, right? Miss polls from Twitter.


How often do you look at your global feed, on Nostr?

https://pollerama.fun/respond/80e833a6202ec85cf6d1dbab5757ab3355d08d6c8d7d4088e01d6c0a2a1fb00b

a #poll by nostr:npub1l5sga6xg72phsz5422ykujprejwud075ggrr3z2hwyrfgr7eylqstegx9z


I'm not really sure, why it has to have an event. Seems more like a service a client would just offer, outright, as a feature. Not everything needs to generate an event or be a NIP.


Yeah, like in the NIP-72 I linked to. It's full of relay hints, in the json example (under "p" and "relay"):

----
{
  "created_at": <Unix timestamp in seconds>,
  "kind": 34550,
  "tags": [
    ["d", "<community-d-identifier>"],
    ["name", "<Community name>"],
    ["description", "<Community description>"],
    ["image", "<Community image url>", "<Width>x<Height>"],

    //.. other tags relevant to defining the community

    // moderators
    ["p", "<32-bytes hex of a pubkey1>", "<optional recommended relay URL>", "moderator"],
    ["p", "<32-bytes hex of a pubkey2>", "<optional recommended relay URL>", "moderator"],
    ["p", "<32-bytes hex of a pubkey3>", "<optional recommended relay URL>", "moderator"],

    // relays used by the community (w/optional marker)
    ["relay", "<relay hosting author kind 0>", "author"],
    ["relay", "<relay where to send and receive requests>", "requests"],
    ["relay", "<relay where to send and receive approvals>", "approvals"],
    ["relay", "<relay where to post requests to and fetch approvals from>"]
  ],
  // other fields...
}
----


Yes, it's too broad. I could see it adding real value as a sort of "personal search worker" for finding something more unusual than "dev stuff" or "Catholic stuff" or "stuff about biking".


Bluesky feeds are curated. That's why they seem to work better and have higher signal. The data gets pushed through a filter, basically.

DVMs do something similar, but instead of doing it continually, for everyone receiving the feed, you send off a request and they run the filter for you, especially. That's why it's called a "Data Vending Machine". That's more personal, but also more resource-intensive. Makes more sense to do use that tool for more complex and uncommon combinations, than "show me the feed about baking" or "show me the top ten notes on the biggest 10 relays".


Yeah, but it's the primary one, and the basis for n use cases.

Depending entirely upon DVMs and (lol) hashtags for this, is inefficient, especially as the topical segmentation can be reversed by combining feeds, but this way it is filtered through the primary audience before reaching the DVM or a wider public. That improves the quality of the result by raising the data quality through a curation and refinement step, like an ORM would.


ROFLMAO

https://m.primal.net/LDkM.png


Same.
https://media.tenor.com/f33JqfYvgrcAAAAC/we-see-each-other-meand-you.gif


The main difference is that Bluesky probably only has one "bread baking" feed because they only have one big note-faucet that the feed filters notes from. So, if you get banned from that feed or from the faucet, then you can't just spin up a different relay with a new feed. You just have to talk about bread by yourself, from then on.


Bluesky feeds are a filter on the content. They look for particular keywords or exclude keywords, and if your note fits to that set, and you're allowed on the feed as a user, they add your post to the feed. This is the same way a topic relay can work, like https://christpill.nostr1.com

>>Feeds offer some of the same functionalities as hashtags, lists, or communities. A feed is simply a curated list of posts on Bluesky. The curation can be done fully openly, as with a feed that searches for any keywords and automatically indexes them. (This can approximate hashtag behavior and some feeds are keyed to hashtag-looking keywords, like #LandBack.) Feeds can also display all posts from some users or some posts from a pre-screened list of users.<<


The basic difference is that the person publishing the post curates where it will go and how it will be defined/labeled/tagged. They then send it off to the appropriate relay. Then, everyone reading from that relay (because they are interested in the same topic or are part of the same community) can see it and respond to it.

The people who want to read it have it _sent to them_ over the relay. Or they go to a client where there's nothing but Stuff Like That.
They don't have to go dig it out of the gigantic heap of Bitcoin memes and EXTRA LARGE TEXT RESPONDING TO EXTRA LARGE TEXT.


Well, we could have relay selection boxes, when you post, so that you could determine it, manually. If you were responding to a music production thread, that would also be a hint, so we could just write the response back on the relay that it came from. It should be possible to post to n number of topical relays, so that the post ends up everywhere, that it might be useful, same way we do with general posts.


The problem I face is that my communities list keeps being nuked by some client, someplace, so every time I want to select a community, when writing, the drop-down list is blank. 😅🙈

Gave up, but this could be fixed.


Hzrd already said that he wants to move to relay-selection, but that it'll take awhile, as he'd have to rewrite so much code.


Yes, you could just select which relay you want to post to, from a drop-down menu in the note-writing form. Amethyst and Habla.News already have this. You can select your relays during the publication process.


The old communities events include relay hints. NIP-29 groups are completely detached from relays.

https://github.com/nostr-protocol/nips/blob/master/72.md


The thing with relays, is that you could also write that "sourdough bread baking" event from Nostrudel or Primal, so long as you had the relay listed and could somehow indicate that it was the one you wanted to write to.


The topical relay model is a different workflow:

1. You decided to write about a topic.
2. You client determines that the topic is "sourdough bread baking".
3. Your client writes the event to the "bread baking" relay and adds "sourdough" as a tag.
4. Everyone in the sourdough community forum immediately sees your event. Nobody else sees your event. The moderator (human or AI) can immediately moderate the event, as they know what a sourdough forum event should look like and they oversee the content on that relay.
5. You open your "notifications/chat/kind01" client and can see the responses from the sourdough forum in it.
6. You can respond there, only to them, but you can also allow your wider fren group to see the discussion, by broadcasting it to more relays.


DVMs are largely a solution to a problem that we created by not having topical relays. 😅

https://image.nostr.build/553c297901b99d3f7652f35e0e4fcd6280ad783e1819a8e9aadc2d8f7290dee3.jpg


Well, we are. So, that's a couple of devs. 😅


NIP-29 doesn't reference relays in any tags, but you can see the "recomended relays" part of tags and fields in NIP-01.


For some mysterious reason, there has been a real antipathy to linking context to relays. Topical relays are a superpower because you could just look through a list of relays and then select all of the ones for the topics you are interested in, and the relay moderators keep the posts on-topic and the spammers and trolls out.

Nothing stops there from being different relays addressing the same topic; you could write to any or all of them. You could have 3 different sourdough relays, 4 bible relays, a popery relay, 8 dev relays, a library relay, and a chat relays, and either combine them in your cloud relay, to save bandwidth, or stream some or all to your various clients and turn them on-and-off, individually, just by clicking checkboxes over your feed.


Well, the relay-hint might help. Or an auto-tag or label.


Yeah, but topic feeds that become popular quickly fill up with spam and porn (but, I repeat myself).

That's why forums, groups, and communities are better, as they have moderators. Gatekeeping keeps the signal strong.


Livin that nerd-love Life 💍
https://image.nostr.build/a71e0559728b1f7e345848aea0414c0b4da34695d5070c7842454498c354b285.jpg


That's because everyone is only looking their follows' OPs in the feed. They literally can't see you, unless you reply to someone else.

That compounds the "virtuous effect" of having lots of follows, as other people are then _obliged_ to interact with you, in order to become visible.


>>And it's not the people posting 'really excited to be here, can't wait to use this freedom tech'.<<

Agreed. That's almost a will-be-gone-soon-too-normal flag.

>>it's just often not here to be found<<

Agree, in aggregate. But I am not the only one who sometimes posts such material in fits and starts, but then peters out, again, from the lack of interaction that ensues. The discovery would have to be much faster, so that the people posting such stuff get positive feedback, quickly, but I think we need forums et al, to achieve that.

>>But yeah bitcoin posts are the rent you pay to some extent for exposure.<<

Agreed, and I really benefited from that, as I'm interested in Bitcoin, even if I'm not really part of "Exiled Bitcoin Twitter".

>>posting absolutely anything and it being considered 'trending'<<

TTTHHHHIIIISSSSS!!!! 🤣

I absolutely hate that, even if it's my own "nothing post" trending, as it completely destroys any sense of intimacy.

I've become completely preoccupied with "targeting my message at different audiences" because of this. I want to be able to post a sweeping article with the same npub and have everyone and their mamma see it, but not have that happen with my "Long day, on the rag, sense of humor dead, olives taste so much worse, on the way up," Stammtisch venting post.

I've actually managed to achieve something like this, by writing to specific relays, and writing with a smaller npub and then boosting with a larger one.


I can name ten books, don't worry. 😄


The feed comes from the relays. They're servers that "serve up" the events. "Follows" are the main list, with which you limit the feed you see, to the posts from the npubs on the list. Other posts are suppressed by the client (or the relay, if you have a smarter relay).


How what works?


I've just updated Listr to get a few old dependencies out and upgrade to svelte 5. Please let me know if you see anything broken or odd. 🙏

https://listr.lol


# A fortnight of being real on Nostr

![MVC pattern](https://i.nostr.build/CetoKl21ReLIBIeC.png)

It's been over two weeks, since I announced that I would primarily be noting from my lesser-known [Silberengel npub](nostr:nprofile1qydhwumn8ghj7argv4nx7un9wd6zumn0wd68yvfwvdhk6tcpr3mhxue69uhhg6r9vd5hgctyv4kzumn0wd68yvfwvdhk6tcqyr7jprhgeregx7q2j4fgjmjgy0xfm34l63pqvwyf2acsd9q0mynuzlmgw80), and it's been an interesting experience. As with anything I ever do, I clicked around a lot, tested out a lot, and tried out a lot. Mostly, I observed.

## Let me share, what I've learned

1. Nostr-related products are increasingly useless, if you don't follow anyone, or only follow a handful of people. **Everything is geared to follows** and you usually really do need to follow gobs of people, to have an interesting feed, by capturing the most-active people (about 10% of the people you follow). Those people tend to quote and boost other people's notes into your stream, allowing you to follow those additional people and so on, like a snowball scheme. This means that follows are actually a feed-management mechanism, rather than any indication of a relationship between npubs. It also means that 10% of the npubs decide what everyone will look at.
2. Many people collect followers, by being active for a very short time, following lots and lots of people and getting follow-backs, then they unfollow the smaller npubs or abruptly change their tone or the content (this is common with spammers and scammers). Then they have a high WoT score. **What, precisely, is being trusted here?** (Also, centering WoT on follows is influencer-maxxing for plebs, KWIM?)
3. Why are individuals never unfollowing these npubs? Because nobody unfollows anyone who hasn't seriously upset them. **Follow-inertia is rampant** and the follow lists are so long that most people don't even know who they are following. So long as the "bad npub" doesn't spam the people who are following them directly, they don't notice anything. That means following spam can inadvertently protect you from spam, whilst the same spammers throw crap at your own frens, all damned day.
4. Most relay owners/operators don't ever look directly at the feed from their own relay, so it's usually full of enormous amounts of garbage. Your clients and personal/private relays are often downloading and broadcasting all of that garbage indiscriminately, so **the garbage gets passed around, like a social media virus**. Many of you just haven't noticed, because you also don't look at the feed from your relays (see 1).
5. Almost all business logic (the controls, in the classic model-view-controller setup) has been placed on the client-side. This is great, if you're a client developer, as it makes relays superfluous and traps your customers in your app, by **making moving to a different app more onerous**. Every move requires a period of readjustment and fiddling, before they can see their feed the way that they are used to seeing it. This is less great, if you're a user and are interested in trying out a different app.
6.  When I began, two weeks ago, the concept of topical, private, and personal relays interacting were mostly a pipe dream (pun intended), but I've been pleased to see, that some other people are beginning to catch on to **the appeal of decentralizing and specializing the model layer**. A diverse, sprawling network of relays, connected through the [outbox model](https://mikedilger.com/gossip-model/) and [negentropy syncing](https://github.com/hoytech/strfry/blob/master/docs/negentropy.md), is really next-generation communication, and essential for ensuring censorship-resistance, while supporting smooth interaction.
7. Once you get above a few hundred followers (which I already have, *That went fast!*), additional followers are increasingly spam or inactive/bot npubs, and once you get a few thousand followers, **that Bot Effect goes parabolic**, as your notes are spread more widely onto spammy relays. You won't notice, yourself, as anything over a few hundred becomes Some Big Number and you'll eventually stop even looking to see who they are, or caring about them, at all. Which leads directly to my next point...
8. The number of followers a person has, **correlates with an increase in their disdain for people who care** about follower counts, likes, reactions, or even zaps. This *noblesse oblige* says nothing about the usefulness or information any of these signals carry. You will please also notice that they never change npubs and rarely change profile pics because of reasons I don't need to elaborate on, further.
9. On-boarding is a lonely experience because **nobody looks at the feed, and you initially have no followers**. Even if you reply to people, they often can't see what you wrote because of your low WoT score. That is, unless you already know someone there, who can vouch for you. Or are lucky to get discovered by the Nostr Welcoming Committee and end up one of the biggest npubs overnight, which is like winning the follower lottery.
For most new npubs, the experience is terrible and they eventually give up, for a handful the experience is absolutely fantastic and they are hooked. Obvious lesson: nobody should onboard, who doesn't know at least 1 other person: so invites only. Unlike Those Other Protocols, Nostr doesn't need a centrally-determined invite, as every client or relay can offer their own version, geared to a different audience. The goal simply needs to be: get off 1.
10. I don't get many zaps or reactions, anymore, but **I still have interesting conversations**, and I no longer face the surreal situation of every cough, hiccup, or sneeze I emit being front-page news. Nostr feels more like Nostr, again, and less like Twitter, and now I want communities and forums even harder.

![Laeserin](https://image.nostr.build/58999452123e75d400344eb71d09abe1e704c5113c03e808dd2ef5954862bb65.png)
![Silberengel](https://image.nostr.build/cee6d675ff3acd57b74dde50d93910c3b336c311a348d77f60c2e6f69f4b6a7e.png)

What Nostr feels like as an npub screaming into the void.

This is a long form article, you can read it in https://habla.news/a/naddr1qvzqqqr4gupzplfq3m5v3u5r0q9f255fdeyz8nyac6lagssx8zy4wugxjs8ajf7pqqxnzdejxu6rxvfkxyenswp55p58yy


It tells me that my handful of sats will be worth a gazillion dollars, in thirty years, but not what I will be able to buy with those sats.


I've noticed we 💶 peeps generally aren't as excited as the 💵 peeps.

Are y'all seeing your USD purchasing power fall faster than our Euro PP?


I was thinking about this, and I think having crappy equipment and crappy Internet has given me the weird requirements-engineering advantage of trying to think of ways to do things offline or with reduced bandwidth/processing.

I'm always thinking, okay... and now assume the Internet sometimes doesn't work or is glacially slow, or the power to the router occasionally shuts down, or your mobile data is out of range or you're using some really old, 2-thread netbook that your Uncle Robert gave you, or you've only got 1 GB of storage available, or you're looking at it on ePaper, or working offline on a long train ride... Will it still work? Will it work smoothly?

Because, you know, that's what most people's communications are actually like. I want to design things that work... for most people.

#SecondWorldProblems

nostr:note167z253pc3pyq7a4csmkhnggyv6t0u3vz8amfcdrcpy3njgckgnnsdmrqk4


There is no second best! 💪


Says person with 14.5k followers. 😊


It used to be that everyone here spoke Bavarian, so speaking fluent Hochdeutsch was a sign of education and wisdom.
Now, it's increasingly the other way around.


Hal Finney:

It seemed so obvious to me: "Here we are faced with the problems of loss of privacy, creeping computerization, massive databases, more centralization - and [David] Chaum offers a completely different direction to go in, one which puts power into the hands of individuals rather than governments and corporations. The computer can be used as a tool to liberate and protect people, rather than to control them."

Still one of my favorite quotes. https://m.primal.net/LCuE.jpg


# Let's talk about baking bread

I've mentioned a few times, how large-scale central planning leads inevitably to artificial scarcity and rising prices. Allow me to illustrate -- using a completely invented allegory about bread -- that has absolutely no parallels to any economy you may already be familiar with.

## We start with 20

Let us say, there is a group of 20 people in a village doing something that requires some niche skill and interest, but not inordinate amounts of talent or uncommon knowledge, such as baking loaves of bread containing emmer wheat. This is not an easy thing to do, and you'd have to read up on it and practice, to begin with, but it's not an insurmountably-high barrier for anyone who already knows how to bake.

Now, they're not baking all that much of this bread, as the market for people who want to eat it, is still rather small. But, they're happy to bake the bread, and sell it below cost (at $10), as they can see that the market is steadily growing and they know that there is a possibility of recuperating their investments, and maybe even turning some profit. They hope to eventually profit either directly (through the selling of the bread), or indirectly (as A Person Who Helped Invent Emmer Bread), or ideally some combination of the two.

They are baking away, and honing their baking skills, and scrounging up the money for bigger and better ovens or cleverly-arranging discounted contracts for slightly-larger deliveries of wheat, and more and more bakers see this activity and wander over to their village, to see how this bread is made. Well, the current bakers are starting to sink under all of the bread orders they are receiving, and customers are complaining of late deliveries, so they start to ask the 10 visiting bakers, if they would like to also set up a bakery and take some of the production off of their hands.

## We now have 25 bakers

The visiting bakers consider it and 5 agree and the rest wander off again, as they already are quite busy baking the bread they've always baked, and they aren't as certain of the possibility of growth, for this new type of bread.

The 5 additional bakers take a while to setup shop and assemble staff and place wheat orders and etc., but after a few weeks or months, they are also adding to the bread supply. There are now 25 bakers, all completely booked-out, producing bread. The price of bread has fallen, to $8/loaf.

And the bread they produced! All of the bakers competing for orders and expanding their product lines and customer base quickly lead to the white emmer bread being followed by whole-grain emmer bread, emmer dinner rolls, emmer-raisin bread, and even one rebel daring to bake spelt-emmer pretzels because... Well, why not? The customer, (who, at this point, is the person eating the bread), gets to decide which bread will be baked, and the pretzels sell like hotcakes.

The emmer hotcakes also sell like hotcakes.

No baker is making much (or any) money off of the baking, but they all can see where this will end up, so they are still highly motivated and continue to invest and innovate at breathtaking speed. We now have emmer baking mixes, "We luv emmer" t-shirts, emmer baking crowd-sourcing, all-about-emmer recipe books and blogs, etc. The bakers see this all as an investment, and cross-finance their fledgling businesses through selling other bread types, their spouse's day job, burning through their savings, or working Saturday night, stocking shelves at the grocery.

Everyone can be a winner! Everyone can find their niche-in-niche! Everyone can specialize!
Private enterprise for every baker, who rises and falls on his own efforts alone! And although everyone was competing with everyone else, there was no bitterness, as everyone could clearly see that effort and reward were in some sort of balance.

## We are now short 3

But, alas, that was not meant to be. The joy and harmony is short-lived.

A gigantic, wealthy foundation, who is dedicated to "ensuring much emmer bread will be baked, by financially supporting emmer bakers" enters the chat.

"We have seen that there is much baking going on, here, but just think how much better and more baking could be done, if we financed your baking! Isn't that clever? Then you could really concentrate on baking, instead of having to worry about financing your business or marketing your products. All you have to do, is apply to receive our baker's grant, by signing this form, acknowledging that you will only bake products containing nothing but emmer and you will otherwise support our mission. We promise to pay you $100/loaf."

The 2 people making spelt-emmer pretzels, and the 1 person making spelt-emmer cookies, refuse to sign on, and slink off, as they are very convinced of the rightness of including spelt. One emmer-purist baker refuses on some economic principle that nobody comprehends, and immediately turns around and goes back to work in their bakery, with their shoulders hunched. But the remaining 21 bakers happily apply for a baker's grant. The mixed-grain bakers are upset about the breakup of the emmer market, and spend some time sulking, before wandering off to the new, much-smaller, spelt bread market, that is setting up, down the street. Where they sell their bread for $6 and slowly go bankrupt.

## And then there were 10

2 weeks go by. 4 weeks go by. Baking has slowed. The grant hopefuls hold a meeting, where they discuss the joys of baking. Baking slows further.

Everyone is too excited, to find out if their new Universal Customer will be paying for the bread they bake. $100 a loaf! Just think of it! All of the bakers quickly do the math and realize that they not only will turn a profit, they can buy themselves a nice house and a new car and...

Nobody listens to the complaints from The Old Customers, who are the useless individual people only paying $8, despite them slaving away, all day, in front of a hot oven. They should be happy that they are getting bread, at all! Instead they complain that the bread is dry, that the delivery is late, that the bottoms are burnt. Ingrates.

And, then, the big day arrives, and the foundation happily announces that they will be giving 10 lucky bakers a grant.

The bakers are stunned. It had seemed that all of the bakers would be getting the grants, not only part of them. But, of course, the Universal Customer looked through the applications and tried to spend its money wisely. Why give grants to 5 bakers, who all produce the same type of olive-emmer bread? Give it to one, and then tell him to produce 5 times as much bread. He is then the olive-emmer bread expert and they will simply keep loose tabs on him, to nudge him to bake the bread in a sensible manner. And, of course, he shall always focus on baking olive bread, as that is what the grant is for.

The bakers stroll off, to their bakeries. Those who baked olive bread and received no grant, close up shop, as they can see which way the wind is blowing. The other grantless bakers reformulate their bakery plans, to see if they can somehow market themselves as "grant-free bakers" and wonder at how long they can stand the humiliation of selling to demanding, fickle customers at $8/loaf, when others are selling at $100/loaf, to an indifferent customer who doesn't even eat it.

The happiest 10 bakers leave for another conference, and while they are gone, their bakeries burn down. Their grants continue to flow, regardless, and the actual bread eaters are now standing in line at the last few bakeries, paying $20/loaf.

The End.

Illustration of the dark side of central planning, within privatized economies.

This is a long form article, you can read it in https://habla.news/a/naddr1qvzqqqr4gupzplfq3m5v3u5r0q9f255fdeyz8nyac6lagssx8zy4wugxjs8ajf7pqqxnzdejxucnwvfnxvmnsd3cgqxylq


Young people, in Europe and America, started moving out at the turn of the last century. It wasn't a tradition, in those countries. Housing was formerly multigenerational, but people became steadily more transient, with industrialization and the following rise of office work and the concentration closer to cities.

![cottage scene](https://i.nostr.build/7FLNx27limpI5lHg.jpg)

Prior to then, housing (including rents) was prohibitively expensive, so everyone tried to stay in their parents' or employers' home, for as long, as possible. Both the "Go west!" and "Lebensraum!" slogans hint at that crowded past. People risked their lives, en mass, trying to find enough cheap land, to build their own home. Many people left Germany, and similarly crowded countries, to move to places like Texas, where you could own your own home and therefore marry without your employers' or parents' permission.

It is still common to have inheritance fueds, here, in Bavaria, with the children squabbling over who gets to "keep" the house and how much "payout" the other children will receive, as compensation. Because you cannot always simply move to a different home in the same area (there is little available land for building and nothing to rent), leaving the ancestral home can result in de facto banishment from the entire region.

Wages increased, after WWI created a tighter labor market, and governments and large corporations (receiving government subsidies) began building or subsidizing massive amounts of homes, while the size of each home shrank dramatically. Those factors combined to lower the *relative* cost of housing, to the individual purchaser.

![poor Millenials](https://www.personalfinanceclub.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/03/434406471_946893674113462_1766979979566026927_n.jpg)

But the resulting Baby Boom construction explosion so overwhelmed the housing and mortgage markets, that housing is a very unappealing long-term investment, now, as there is hardly anyone around, to move into those many homes, when the Boomers pass. Their children and grandchildren (if they have any) are much poorer than they are, and much fewer in number, which guarantees that the housing market in most areas will eventually begin to collapse, in real terms, as Boomers pass away, or attempt to downsize.

To stabilize prices and prevent fires or delinquency, governments will begin demolishing empty houses, as they already sometimes do, in the former East Germany. Former West Germany dealt with steadily-falling house prices by mass-importing foreigners and paying for their rent at above-market prices, to artificially reinflate the housing market, but it appears that the easterners had a more politically- and economically- sustainable model for ridding themselves of excess homes.

!["Wir haben Platz!" sign](https://i.nostr.build/R59ox5voA8A9qLNf.png)

But the era of cheap housing is over, and will continue to be so, for the next 10-15 years, so young people increasingly stay home, well into adulthood. As some cultures now have "moving out", as a prerequisite to dating, their childrens' marriage rate has plummeted and, consequently, so has the birth rate.

![UK chart house price relative to wages](https://image.nostr.build/5dce7935758a2be86fce712509f6af55da4866dbf35fff3f81c947f94491b67a.jpg)

On the transient existence of single family homes

And why they are gone, for most young people, for the next decade.

This is a long form article, you can read it in https://habla.news/a/naddr1qvzqqqr4gupzplfq3m5v3u5r0q9f255fdeyz8nyac6lagssx8zy4wugxjs8ajf7pqqxnzdejxu6rzd3sxg6nzwpncqat84


I meant, here, one of the kids (traditionally eldest son) never moves out; their spouse moves in to the family house and he buys the "inheritance portions" of the other kids, when the parents die, and then the house is his. This is in return for taking care of the parents and their home, in old age.

It's a multigenerational model because there are a lot of farms and small businesses around here, and the houses are often large or contain multiple apartments.


How much Bitcoin do you need, to actually feel richer, when the price goes up?

#askingforafriend


Sticking to the ancestral home reduces your economic and dating opportunities, but it also reduces your living costs by half or more, indefinitely.

We're four adults, living a middle class lifestlyle on one income because
No Mortgage No Rent Share Maintenance.


It's usually the other way around, here. Kids live with their parents. Families occupy the same house for generations, with children moving in and out and back in.


GFY and GM


It's been raining all year, and we live next to a marsh, so my living room is full of mosquitos.


GN, from your favorite middle-aged, black, busty, gray-eyed, developer, tester, female, who lives on a mountain, surrounded by forests, and has a crappy phone with dodgy Internet.

Out of all of them, I'm definitely your favorite one.
But it was a close race.

https://image.nostr.build/591b185bc45e8462b3f99797a7dee94a68431900ad26b77ded14127a7bc53d01.png


"I did not have relaytions with your npub."
-- Bill Clinton, probably.


🤦♀  My guy friends keep telling me stories like this. Women have become so antisocial.


Are #relaytives the people with you on a relay, and #relayneighbors the people in the relay next door?


How many people regularly look at their global feed? ✋


Livin the dream, bro. 😁


And, as always with FOSS, everyone is free to fork Alexandria and self-host it.


We're splitting the library (on thecitadel relay), with all of the book events on it, from the social, support, and analytical/AI aspects (on theforest relay). Also, your whitelisted npub is your login to further servers and databases.

We're a whole group of sociable people who are active on Nostr, so theforest will always be "alive", and looking at Alexandria while connected to theforest will make Alexandria "come alive".

If you only want to look at a book on your tablet or cellphone, then you can do that, even without theforest membership.


I also needed to do this because I'm making the list machine-readable and then feeding it into a script to generate the NUDs.


There will be premium #Alexandria services only available from this relay, but the app itself will remain FOSS and you will be able to adjust the relays.

wss://thecitadel.nostr1.com is the OtherStuff relay, where we will be storing the books, and we're going to try to keep that "free", for as long as possible. May eventually have to charge for uploads, if it gets out too spammy or gross. We'll see.


nostr:npub1p23eukh0nxsqpfaakz6fj9vvj27y4gs0kevnrffdq4d4adkl7uuq7crnl6 would you prefer yml (so that it is more human-readable) or json (because json, dunno, no idea 😅 )?


I was thinking of using yml or json. Just converting my event register. The one in the ReadMe is based upon the content of this wiki page:
https://wikistr.com/nostr-event-register*dd664d5e4016433a8cd69f005ae1480804351789b59de5af06276de65633d319


We're already facing new challenges, for the 2nd beta release, and we haven't even released the first, yet. 😅
We're debating how to integrate other event types (primarily wiki pages and articles), including those that don't have the same publishing npub as the 30040.

nostr:npub1m3xdppkd0njmrqe2ma8a6ys39zvgp5k8u22mev8xsnqp4nh80srqhqa5sf pointed out, that if we merely link events in, the original event could be deleted or seriously altered, and that would change the content of the 30040, and possibly alter the statement that the index is trying to make. nostr:npub1wqfzz2p880wq0tumuae9lfwyhs8uz35xd0kr34zrvrwyh3kvrzuskcqsyn had the idea that we could clone the content of the event and create a 30041 out of it, with all of the appropriate tags filled out, but including a link back to the original event. Then we'd have to somehow denote when the original and our clone differ and offer to re-clone the event or reject the changes.

https://media.tenor.com/B7bEbg69dwEAAAAC/it%27s-about-to-get-more-complicated-lewis-jackson.gif


I do, as well, so long as the end-user has the ability to change the relays.


What is follow-tricking?


Wearing used clothes actually makes you look wealthier because clothes used to be better. 😅  LIFE HACK


Wow, Tesla, really? My niece worked there, before getting her certification. They used to hire EVERYBODY.


UK is NATO


Yeah, unfortunately, jobs pay fiat. 🙈


I hear that a lot. Everyone thinks I ruined my life by getting married and pregnant so young, and having fun being poor.

Oh well.


Yeah. Theoretically, everyone is hiring and totally desperate for workers, but you apply and they don't even respond.

One of my nieces is a nursing assistant and they don't even do real first interviews, anymore. You have to read questions off this script in a recorded monolog, to get an interview. She got two offers, but said the process was BIZZARE.


My family is in Central Texas and the job market there is also starting to suck. My nieces and cousins complain.

It's been booming, for as long as I can remember...


Yeah, rental market is also a bitch. Get a job, but can't move cuz where apartment?


And they have barely even begun to print. Madhouse.


Yeah, I know so many people sticking with jobs they hate because they'd be making like €20k less, if they switched. Brutal.

Incomes are falling, at the higher end.


I get hand-me-downs, from my mom. Just got a snazzy new-to-me 🐫-hair 🧥. Incredibly warm.


I don't know, if it's the hardest jobs market I've dealt with, but I used to be younger and cheaper. 😂


Would you hire me?

https://image.nostr.build/bfd09e1b289dfda74cfdca2c80a13e105477af85d04ec9d1fb3002f520d5ec30.png


Does anyone know how to self-host oddbean?
https://oddbean.com/


Guten Morgen!


I think I'm being rate-limited or something. Got a warning.


I'm not broke. I'm rebelling against rampant consumerism, by refusing to purchase anything other than food.


Being broke just made me into a rebel.
Knew there had to be some upside.


Yeah, nuts. They used to just die all the time. Like miners, before they came up with helmets.


They're borrowing longer (mortgage), to protect themselves against consumer-price inflation, and investing shorter in a real asset (stocks), to protect themselves against monetary inflation.

People do the same with Bitcoin.


naddr1qqxnzd3cxy6nwwfnx5mrsvfeqyt8wumn8ghj7un9d3shjtnwdaehgu3wvfskueqzyp09ls2rfjfghnwt5muqrpva2gurgyyn9yvcplfkuvahg93e84dzcqcyqqq823cus64cu original in Apr 2023 updated Jan 2024 but NOSTR is so fast changing and information overflowing nobody perhaps time to look in their leisure until they get STUCK cannot see stuff in nostr. Still very basic "principles of decentralized relay server pick by user is SAME". techniques make change , type or owner or tools. PICK N CHOSE OWN #RELAY time2time. shuffle.


If your njump is slow, use https://nostr.at/


👍 thanks


Nostrudel, Amethyst, Nostter, etc.


This is at an old castle in Germany. Like it so much because of the history and the strength of a tree that grows in the stones
https://image.nostr.build/62e5ba6df5276d1e00309707b65b9637bfd1403426bff6f713418af324b2fdf0.jpg
 https://image.nostr.build/3ee2b52f15406c066c532981ca0c69c943577237063418937cff175bee92b897.jpg


ReplyGuy is no longer replying. 😅


nostr:npub1cgd35mxmy37vhkfcmjckk9dylguz6q8l67cj6h9m45tj5rx569cql9kfex where source?


Ah, okay. So, if I put my favorites in there, it'd bring up their WoT?


Big relays are a solution in search of a problem, IMO. Since relays can pull in notes from other relays, our own personal feeds can be 100% signal and diverse. The Big Relay Model assumes you have to go to that relay to see someone's notes because notes are something scarce, like on legacy media. There is no scarcity in notes because they are signed, so you can create n copies of them.

The only thing that has any scarcity, at all, on here, are npubs identified as being run by interesting humans or helpful bots, so that's what you should collect. People have been collecting them in their follows, but collecting them in relays is both more effective and more discrete.

WoT algos are better than nothing, but they're  dependent upon your feed being public data. 😬 All of the AI work we've been doing has me thinking more about which things I want to make explicit to the public, like labeling notes by topic or an attestation for some specific npub, and which ones I should make harder to discover, like what I'm personally looking at.


To be honest, it'd be nice to have exclusion-filters. As in "Please don't show me notes from npubs with more than 10k followers." or "Show me what is trending from npubs with less than 1k followers".


The problem is, the developers are now obsessed with "only see your follows", so that model is prominent in the OtherStuff.

We're going to try to counteract it, on Alexandria, by having the global from high-quality relays set as the default, and using better searching and labeling. We're only going to include follows as one factor in how prominent something is, on the front page.

Otherwise, a couple of "bookpert npubs" could completely capture the market, by getting people to follow them and then everyone would only look at their recommendations.


This is why the well-known people who come here (or those who get boosted by someone big, right away), love how they get lots and lots of interaction really fast, whereas normal people just languish for days or weeks and then leave again.

And it's not because they aren't replying to other people. They reply, they get a response, then it's over. Their replies don't lead to being followed-back, and everyone looks only at follows, so it's like trying to break a glass ceiling.

This onboarding experience is actually much WORSE than when I first got here, and lots of people were surfing global, so just posting notes into the void got you new followers. That ended because the big relays turned into nothing but porn and spam, after the eGirls showed up, so we all switched to OnlyFollows.

The better solution is to use smaller relays, that don't have a bunch of porn and spam, but the outbox model hadn't been popularized, yet. I feel like this better solution is languishing because of feed-inertia, but I'm hoping personal relays will end that.


Same for me, now. Much more interesting experience and less like Twitter 2.0.


That's actually completely counter-productive, as the smaller npubs lose all name-recognition and the bigger ones are identifiable by the way they write and the outsized enthusiasm their notes receive.

On the selection of relays I'm looking at, most notes display zero reactions (can only see replies on Nostrudel, when I open the note). But some get a reactions on basically nothing-notes because people are just excited to see them post anything, at all.

Can you tell who these people are?

https://m.primal.net/LCUS.png
https://m.primal.net/LCUW.png
https://m.primal.net/LCUa.png


I don't have any follows, so I think the WoT thing wouldn't work for me.

How/where can I edit the whitelist and blastr settings?


How often do you look at your global feed, on Nostr?

nostr:note107qta3fhn9kf3jxc78y5j0rdj62zvalvzlwg5vj495vjzx7mnvequ3kq6t


Made it a poll:

https://nostr-polls.vercel.app/respond/80e833a6202ec85cf6d1dbab5757ab3355d08d6c8d7d4088e01d6c0a2a1fb00b


How often do you look at your global feed, on Nostr?


Yeah, same. Firehose in from Damus, Land, and Sovbit, over the allowed list, and then I have a bunch of private/WoT/paid relays I also read from. I've been slowly adding people to my personal relay, this way.

Basically does what filter.wine was doing.


I see Rabble, but not any anime pin-up girls or porn, or anything like that. Usually goes away, when you take off the big, public relays.


As in, when you're on here, it's a normal thing you might do.


I think that's the only one, so far.


How many people regularly look at their global feed? ✋


My global is so neat, now. Not just the one from my relay; from a whole list of relays. All pleasant relays. 😊


Yeah, hashtags are nice. I sometime search for them. Or I click on them, when someone uses them, and scroll through the results.

Just realized that changing clients all the time cause me to drop wheat from my list. Added it back in.


I'm legit stuck with it. It's driving me nuts. 😅  I've tried everything.

But sometimes it doesn't work. Just freezes up. Weird.


You can tell who the popular npubs are because every damn thing they post has like 50 reactions and 20 zaps. Even if they just accidentally typed two letters and pressed send. 😅
Almost all other notes have no interactions. Complete bifurcation.

I suspect that most people hardly see anything at all, in their feed. Because they only follow the very top accounts and never look at global, their feeds are note deserts.


How does your result overlap with the nostr.watch data? Are they looking at fewer relays or are they filtering out more of them, to get their 700ish result?


One of my favorite things about Nostr is that nearly everyone I’ve interacted with on here is so obviously way smarter than me.

I have already learned a ton and I am striving to learn more, whether it’s about #Bitcoin, code, cryptography, or computers/technology in general.

There have also been so many posts I have read where I am just beyond confused because my intellect is severely lacking in that department, but those are just more opportunities to garner more knowledge.

I’ve certainly already had more meaningful online connection from Nostr than I have with any other social media in the past, and I hope that continues to grow so I can meet, follow, and interact with more people online.

#grownostr


This is my current stream. 🍿

https://image.nostr.build/6b37d1736bb015fee8e39322acbf33acc6ddb2a1374fee93292a0e37ba7b6de5.png


Just looking directly at a relay stream is a fascinating experience. You don't really understand what Nostr even is, until you've experienced "global".


GN


I hate that I have so many people spread over so many networks because I just want to look in one place, to see if they've written me. It's like Telegram, Signal, Slack, Nostr, Threema.... and then begin at the beginning, again.


Just say "No" to cancel culture.


I only know of https://hotrightnow.nostr1.com , but I think it doesn't scan images. That would be next-level.


I so wish this were true. 😅


Are you Catholic?


A, like a TV Guide for Nostr? Could also include what's going to be "on" that channel/stream/relay, like with CornyChat or live streaming, or a hack-a-thon, or something.


Like that header. 🤔

https://allbestfonts.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/10/georgia1.png


Ooooh, nostr:npub1wqfzz2p880wq0tumuae9lfwyhs8uz35xd0kr34zrvrwyh3kvrzuskcqsyn look, pretty! That looks very neat and a bit classic.

https://i.pinimg.com/564x/6e/65/92/6e65924cb93baa8d98e624ae6923ed76.jpg


😅  Maybe because I'm old and half-blind.


The same one in my Nostrudel border.


Well, our wss://thecitadel.nostr1.com relays is an OtherStuff relay, that we are going to put the Alexandria books on. So, it's the primary building that the library lives in. And we're going to make it so that you can wander through the library and find interesting books, by labeling the books and clustering similar books together.

The wss://christpill.nostr1.com relay tends to have lots of bible and religious stuff on it, and we'll probably we cross-posting to their, from Alexandria.

There could be a cooking and baking relay, where notes end up, when people label them with # foodstr or something.


Well, that's what topical relays are like, right? Like a magazine rack.


Well, neighbors aren't necessarily friends, right? And they're not fans, right? But they're also probably not our enemies.

They're just people we tend to be near, because some accident of fate located us near to them, and we bump into them or cross paths, regularly. We say, "GM 👋 ". We stand at the fence and tell them about our last hike or how we've changed our diet and which books we're reading. We really like each other, or we sort of don't, but we prefer to keep on good terms because humans are social animals and we like having someone familiar respond to our "GM" with a "GM".

And we instinctively know that the people we keep bumping into, over and over, are somehow more significant than a random selection of people. And we also somehow sense, that the people they choose to hang out with, would probably be people we'd be interesting in meeting, than a random selection of people. So, if they invite us over to their house for a party, we'd be more likely to agree, than if some complete stranger did.

And where do our neighbors live? They live in the place next door. Well, what is "next door" to a relay? A different relay, of course! That's where our Nostr Neighbors live: they live in the relay next door.

https://image.nostr.build/d968288c7e4f365d024f25f768d264e20a2b7570fe3bbb63c4bd6763853192a6.png


This is the beauty of the #outbox model. It allows us to disintermediate the really big streams, into a bunch of brooks that cross-cross and meander.

This is what my stream looks like.

https://i.nostr.build/EkFinQtAmKMr49Kz.jpg

nostr:nevent1qvzqqqqqqypzplfq3m5v3u5r0q9f255fdeyz8nyac6lagssx8zy4wugxjs8ajf7pqythwumn8ghj7un9d3shjtnswf5k6ctv9ehx2ap0qyfhwumn8ghj7ur4wfcxcetsv9njuetn9uqzqphjprcwds678hvu4pytt625ug32nfpf44a70r7hg6qr6ertadzvrqd5pt


I've been thinking about this a lot, lately.

Why do we have these "recommended follow" lists, for newbies, that invariably lead to a zillion people following 100 people? Cuz the big, free relays are so full of crap, that everyone only looks at their follow list feed. After all, how else are you going to find something worth reading, in all that mess, if you can't look at the relay stream?

Well, the best answer is:
YOU LOOK AT A BETTER RELAY STREAM.

What is a better relay stream?
A STREAM SOMEONE IS ACTUALLY WILLING TO LOOK AT.

But doesn't that censor people?
NO, BECAUSE ANYONE CAN BUILD THEIR OWN STREAM.
We can share streams. We can have overlapping streams (by syncing our relays with #RelayNeighbors). We can have custom cobbled-together streams from different topic relays and geographically-limited relays, and a couple of personal relays.

We can have streams consisting of 1 stream or 15 streams, from all over the planet. There should be no SinglePointOfTruth on Nostr, or even TenPointsOfTruth, just lots of plebs hanging out with people they wanna hang out with and reading stuff about things they find interesting, and basta.


Join each other's relays.  Create lightning channels with each other.  This is the way.

nostr:nevent1qqs8lzv6v0rjggf6k2ej5dgx68fk605zh4ere9kf8l3g6kzkxvs7uycprfmhxue69uhhg6r9vehhyetnwshxummnw3erztnrdaksyg8ayz8w3j8jsduq492j39hysg7vnhrtl4zzqcugj4m3q62qlkf8cypsgqqqqqqsys687s


That delay must be why I've been having trouble with Amber. It seems to struggle with AUTH.


I made got rid of AUTH-on-read on my outbox, by the way.


🥳  We're relay neighbors, now!


The guys are all really sad that the style change meant we no longer have everything in hot pink. I insist, once again, that pink is an underrated color.

https://image.nostr.build/b1f55b05176d0713fb4b513d8a03e1eed391e15fbeb0d5f6e3802a5bf5721fed.png


Okay, should work now.


very good

I always save copies, but then I misplace my saved copies. 😅


Which common fonts are the left ones closest to?

https://www.bulletinbottle.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2014/08/popular-serif-fonts.png
https://www.bulletinbottle.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2014/08/popular-sans-serif-fonts.png


The one on the left reads so much better. Wow. Huge difference.


Test of writing to your relay from Nostrudel.


Another question: Do you back the list up, somehow, in case someone gets overexcited and accidentally deletes them? Or should we export the list?


🤣

My follow list was also a mess, except when it had just been nuked.


Ahhh... clever. That's interesting.


Me: Hmm... I could just copy in their follow lists! 💡

Me, half an hour later:
https://media.tenor.com/kReVPYNG9jMAAAAC/10.gif


Are duplicates allowed intentionally, or is that just something you hadn't checked for, because you weren't expected 7 people to moderate one relay? 😅


It is. 😀


nostr:npub10npj3gydmv40m70ehemmal6vsdyfl7tewgvz043g54p0x23y0s8qzztl5h do you auto-remove duplicates?


Please enter individual npubs, and only if they aren't already whitelisted. (just search the page for the hexID number)

But don't just copy in your follow lists, as I've been looking at them and some of them are buggy (nostr:npub1wqfzz2p880wq0tumuae9lfwyhs8uz35xd0kr34zrvrwyh3kvrzuskcqsyn check your json), full of abandoned npubs, and have spam and impersonators and stuff, in them. It's a bit of a mess. 🫣  😅


Just go to https://relay.tools/ and login, by clicking on the circle on the top-right. Then select "My Relays" and then click on TheForest. Then go down to the menu item Access Control Lists and you can edit the list, there, by entering people's npub or hexID.

 https://image.nostr.build/b2a992b1e656a505e923b7bbdd22a748dd68f19ac10c64c839c35e04fdd6aeb9.png


Keeps resetting my relays. Weird.


Okay, it's now only write-protected and not read-protected nostr:npub10npj3gydmv40m70ehemmal6vsdyfl7tewgvz043g54p0x23y0s8qzztl5h . And I added nostr:npub1wqfzz2p880wq0tumuae9lfwyhs8uz35xd0kr34zrvrwyh3kvrzuskcqsyn
nostr:npub1m3xdppkd0njmrqe2ma8a6ys39zvgp5k8u22mev8xsnqp4nh80srqhqa5sf nostr:npub1q6ya7kz84rfnw6yjmg5kyttuplwpauv43a9ug3cajztx4g0v48eqhtt3sh nostr:npub1ecdlntvjzexlyfale2egzvvncc8tgqsaxkl5hw7xlgjv2cxs705s9qs735 nostr:npub1356t6fpjysx9vdchfg7mryv83w4pcye6a3eeke9zvsje7s2tuv4s4k805u nostr:npub1qdjn8j4gwgmkj3k5un775nq6q3q7mguv5tvajstmkdsqdja2havq03fqm7 and nostr:npub1s3ht77dq4zqnya8vjun5jp3p44pr794ru36d0ltxu65chljw8xjqd975wz as moderators. You can all edit the allow list and add anyone you think I've forgotten.

It's now a GitCitadel-associated relay, which makes sense, since that's who's paying for it. This can be the default relay for our products, for all the socializing stuff, like comments and highlights.


Felt that.


I'll add yours to my write list! 😊  I'll be using that list for relay syncing, soon, so I'll remember to get the hookup with y'all.


You and nostr:npub1r8u6lw8c2h67s66magtqu78vtpckfzcsmmdsg06gqm723njsunfs8kfjwl are already whitelisted. 👍


#yestrs


#Primal web seems to have ended outbox. 🤔
Have to type my relays in, by hand.


We're the #NostrElite antipattern. 😅  #NostrNormies


Should I keep theforest as a read-protected relay, or only write-protected? (I have other read-protected relays, now.)


Like you just did. LOL


Good question. Mostly ask around and look at people's outboxes.


The opposite is true. I'm encouraging everyone to stop following ANYONE and instead simply manage their relays better and deal with seeing posts from people they don't like or disagree with, or mute them.

I got rid of all follows because my feed was increasingly just people threatening other people with unfollows, if they continue to say things they disagree with.


You're still on my relay. 😂


Case in point.
Everyone who wants to unfollow me is welcome to do so.

If you don't want to see my stuff, don't read it. If you don't want me to read your stuff, don't publish it someplace where I can read it.

nostr:note1ahmpz7fq2tz4y0x95vj9tkzkhkztawrgf8g62wkh8a42n26j5lascx50ww


Didn't notice. Has no effect.


Relays are there, to determine what you MIGHT want to see.
Lists (including follows) are there, to determine what you DEFINITELY want to see.

If your global feed is something you would never want to look at, directly, you might want to adjust your relays.

https://media.tenor.com/ARsMgq_KnqEAAAAC/not-picky-standards.gif


Yeah, people follow me back and then mute me. 😅

It's a social media sickness I call "overwrought public interaction". Like, what they were saying, yesterday, about people publishing tweets publicly on X, and then blocking individual people from seeing them.
So tiresomely performative.

It's what gave us influencers, with monetized follower counts and people always towing the political line and acting fake, so that they don't lose money by losing followers. We don't need that, here, as we can zap. You are free to think that 99% of what I write is garbage and 1% is gold and then zap or boost the gold.


Always, sir!


Relays are, yes.


I just don't like the lack of granularity, in "following". It wasn't saying what I wanted to say.

All it means is: I want to see your notes.
But I don't need to tell anyone that.


Nobody gets it. You got the "whitelisted on my relay list" status, which is clearer in intent.

There are higher statuses, from there, like being in a group chat with me, or regularly getting replies from me on your notes.


nostr:npub1ecdlntvjzexlyfale2egzvvncc8tgqsaxkl5hw7xlgjv2cxs705s9qs735 just nagged you on Slack.


Look what I just got in the mail. Yes, these are custom prints. https://image.nostr.build/ca0bb518c501d30ede686fead99ef286b02548d7e9db5fbaa8b54cf51a27e607.jpg


I guess it's "real" following, instead of "friending". Like how you can follow a GitHub repo or the weather page for your city. I "follow" bots and companies whose products I don't even use, after all, or people I don't particularly like, but who I interact with in other people's threads.

I'm just interested in seeing the events they publish or I might want to find and identify them later, without running into imposters.


Real follow list is who I let onto my controlpanel. 😉


#Alexandria update:

Recent work on this project has focused on extending Asciidoctor's converter to organize an AsciiDoc document into individual indices and zettels according to the Nostr Knowledge Base specification.  This is now working on a basic level (though we will add additional features to this parser as the project continues), so I can turn to the editor preview.

Since this is UI-focused work, I have screenshots!

First, we have an editor area into which you can type or paste AsciiDoc content.

https://image.nostr.build/73cee7c0bcaf8e1afa09f7ea85e7d4662cdb02c9097d304952c3543aca32c1e4.png

Clicking the eye icon shows a preview.

https://image.nostr.build/50ecf75dc242af4491f103fda58db4d9294a6bc2ac93e266bab2bdec362be3fe.png

Hovering the mouse cursor over the preview highlights each discrete section.  Each paragraph will become a kind 30041 zettel, and each section with a header will become a kind 30040 index that references the zettel events produced for the paragraphs it contains.

https://image.nostr.build/e8268c6df06907459754ada9260ea69c6ede44d1a228b2d78d3a6b17048f5c9e.png
https://image.nostr.build/d92e9d1be4a16a5394b689791b749aa577b2817f0fc4a3a1e7360ce0a93bccdb.png

Images, tables, code blocks, and other entities will all be published as unique Nostr events so that they may be easily remixed and referenced in other index events.

Once the preview works, my next effort will be to write the actual upload functionality to turn Alexandria into an honest-to-goodness Nostr Knowledge Base publisher app.  Stay tuned!

#GitCitadel


Hello. We look a bit different, now.

https://gitcitadel.eu/


I've whitelisted people who have me muted, which is entertaining. 😂


The hurdle to get onto my relay whitelist is much lower than the one to receive a follow, and it's a relief. Feels like reading a magazine; a bit dissociated.

I like some of the articles, skim over the others and feel a bit pissed off at the remainder, but I just reply or move on. I don't feel like I need to Make A Statement, so that everyone knows I Am Not Like That And He Is Not My Fren.

He's just someone whose posts appear on my relay. We don't need to be soulmates. Our events can just coexist on the same server partition. 😁

/pressure-to-follow


The best thing about not-following everyone, is not-feeling like I need to agonize over whether to follow someone.


Test on the production system falls under "monitoring".


Let's put it this way:

Nostr is the only one of these "decentralized, open protocols" that is truly decentralized and open. Even the protocol spec itself, is completely open. I see no value in half-assing a communications revolution, so I can't even be bothered with the others. If this isn't successful, then damn it all. 😂

I guess that's a sort of optimism, yes. This is the only one crazy enough to actually work.


There is no direct incentive, for public relays, that's true. Incentives don't need to be direct. We run one for documents because we have developed a publishing/reader app. Facilitating the usage of the app is the incentive.

And we will have very large private relays, because of micropayments.