eCash is custodial and rehypothecatable, so not really a replacement for Monero.

Pretty cool improvement on custodial lightning though!


eCash is custodial and rehypothecatable, so no not really.

Pretty cool improvement on custodial lightning though!


Ok, then when I also say you are in a cult I'm not namecalling either. Just identifying you. Obviously you don’t believe you’re in a cult. But can you be sure?

...see how stupid this is? It's tangential. Even if I steelman you and say I'm in a cult, someone in a cult can say things that are true or present valid arguments. My cult status is irrelevant.

Refute the central points being made.

https://image.nostr.build/997b80b631d552a59c6c5b0a9480ae8af45171233a8fdfc587f44cf1daa4b377.jpg


You're right, it's just jarring seeing the shitty defaults clearly displayed like this. Very poignant.


stop being surprised when corrupt governments do fucked up shit

expect it - route around them


"Introducing: JoinStr 🦃 A Decentralized CoinJoin Implementation using NOSTR"

https://stacker.news/items/247580


A loud fan or white noise machine does wonders


Good. Hope they continue delisting Monero everywhere 💪


Not sure this is a good idea...

https://image.nostr.build/36020d29033468791dc21202a90a56cc11e029cd20f7aba88fe0bedb7a9fac41.jpg


Shady mega exchanges that expose users to dangers of KYC, rug them, and manipulate price in their favor are delisting Monero?

Sounds like good news to me!

Shows that Monero is working. They can't control it so they have to remove it. Makes you wonder why they're still keeping Bitcoin...


Non-custodial, permissionlessness, P2P, and FOSS are not major pillars of Bitcoin?...

If that is your position we are on different planets. Fruitless to continue this.

Alright, I'll watch my fucking mouth next time 🤭


Exactly. This is what it boils down to 😂

Remember, you are the one who started  the "cult" namecalling in this convo. Not me.


From my perspective you are the one in a cult. But those claims don't add much to the conversation or get to the crux without any argument or explanation does it?

Besides the custodial (!!!) aspect of WoS it is CLOSED SOURCE. How much further can you get from Bitcoin? It's *absolutely* retarded that I even have to point this out to you.

You keep saying WoS makes a proposition but never explicitly say what that is. Convenience? At the expense of major core value props of Bitcoin? Let's just stick to fiat then. Much more convenient and bigger network effect.

Centralized ledgers are a dime a dozen and what started this whole mess. It isn't a solution. It is a lazy shortcut. Illusion of using Bitcoin. You're lying to them. You aren't onboarding people to Bitcoin with IOUs. You are the one refusing to face reality.

I'm not preventing anyone from continuing to make and use custodial solutions like WoS by pointing out the irony and idiocy of it. Have at it! When users are rugged or WoS is targeted by regulators you'll remember this. But hey it's your choice. Do whatever the fuck you want.


What about it?🤔


👀

npub1r27775s4thzj5gdz4j0dr8jygvtldnur2qxlzw0muu7z57k83c4qtsyqx6


Namecalling is all you have so far, didn't address a single thing, and complete projection. Nice.


Yes, but all things equal there is much less room for error with privacy on Monero vs privacy with Bitcoin


ah shit that sucks


Look at the dates between both. A clear trend in Monero's favor. And the latest graph is already two years old. Not bad for a coin with less than 1% of bitcoin's mcap.


1. Your compeletley visible transactions can be correalated with real world data to discover who you are. That's why anonymity AND privacy both matter.

2. Then build an ASIC for it and take all that money.

3. You audit the same way on Monero as Bitcoin. You run a node and pay no mind. A transparent blockchain doesn't help you if you arent actually taking advantage of it. Every ten minutes you are making sure all input = all outputs? Please. You pay zero attention.

4. Monero is FOSS. Anyone is free to leave or join or make their own network. Everyone is voluntarily choosing to use the latest fork because they value the upgrades. Aren't you guys about free markets?

Imagine the real world worked like that. Everyone was forced to be compatible with old tech like CD players. Na, no one is obligated to accomodate you.

The birthplace of Bitcoin, Darknet Markets, would disagree with you.

https://cdn.nostr.build/i/1f90427dc509f688d750d255d92b72f31f9bd43b8d097617e5418697e49f98a7.jpg


Hell yea 🔥


I can't. Anyone you recieve from can. Your friendly neighborhood fed and sleuth can.

 99% of everyone else that uses Bitcoin/LN can be because it has no strong privacy by default AND is overwhelmingly used custodially.

https://voltage.cloud/blog/lightning-network-faq/lightning-network-privacy-explainer/

https://blog.keys.casa/lightning-privacy-101/


Wallets: https://pastebin.com/LybgLKLg

Obtain KYC free: https://pastebin.com/KEG2qTwR

Places to spend: https://pastebin.com/7A7cR7rh

Hope this helps


I'll try and dumb it down since you either didn't read your own article or watch your own video.

Monero bug:
Maybe Alice sent $[?] to [?]

Bitcoin without any bug working as normal:
Alice deifnitely sent $X to Bob

14 years of life and 14 years Bitcoin has zero default privacy lmfao


We can't. Anyone you transact with can. Your friendly neighborhood fed and chain sleuth just might.

And they can easily find 99% of everyone else that uses Bitcoin because it has no strong privacy by default.

Bitcoin has no privacy, no real world fungibility, and tx fees NGU

https://cdn.nostr.build/i/25ca8a793620895d43106c115588b05709d7215f2ca693777932ad87799f931e.jpg


<1% bitcoin mcap, but just as much (if not more) usage on DNMs.

Go let merchants with real skin in the game know that they are wrong, not us.

https://cdn.nostr.build/i/1f90427dc509f688d750d255d92b72f31f9bd43b8d097617e5418697e49f98a7.jpg


Every argument he brings up effects Bitcoin tenfold, so I don't know how you/he thinks it is a unique problem for Monero. This guy also still thinks Monero has 11 decoys 😂 He is not talking about anything new that the Monero community hasn't been discussing for years already. Sender privacy has always been Monero's relative weakness.

As for the privacy bug: Even if all your insinuiations are correct (they are not it was probabilistic not deterministic), Monero would *still* be infinitely more private than Bitcoin as it only effected decoys (sender privacy).

Amounts and recievers would still completely hidden.

Monero is also not adopting Lelantus. Seraphis upgrade will increase decoys to 128 or 256 and eventually full membership proofs will do away with ring sigs for sender privacy completely.


Yea, no-KYC P2P CEX. You can access them without javascript and thru tor. You can use a true DEX like Bisq if you prefer.

BTC --> XMR atomic swaps: https://unstoppableswap.net/

Samourai releasing their crosschain XMR <-> BTC swaps soon too


Yea I don't recommend buying from KYC CEXes even if it was possible. But wow I didn't know all US exchanges don't have Monero available anymore. Even Kraken?

Agree Breez and Phoenix are probably the best LN wallets available in terms of UX and self custody (You have to run your own node with Zeus atm). But since you are not running your own active nodes (for Breez and Phoenix at least) it is still not completely trustless and has privacy implications. At least Phoenix is transparent about this on their website.
https://phoenix.acinq.co/privacy
https://phoenix.acinq.co/faq#is-phoenix-trustless

I know the new upcoming splicing update solves some of the trust and privacy issues on Phoenix, but not completely since you are still not connected to your own node.

Monero's strength is in it's better qualities as digital cash. Cheap tx fees (under 1 cent), real world fungibility, and strong default privacy.

Agree Monero acceptance is not as ubiquitious as Bitcoin on white markets, but there is still quite a lot. People on the outside might just not be aware.

[Spend Monero directly]
-Monerica massive directory [monerica.com]
-Monero Market [moneromarket.io]
-KYCNotMe [kycnot.me/services]
-Telegram: Monero Market [t.me/moneromarket]
-Darknet Markets [torproject.org]

[Monero -> Gift Cards]
-Coincards [coincards.com]
-Cake Pay [buy.cakepay.com]
-Coinsbee [coinsbee.com]
-AllArk [allark.io]


Definitely don't do a fake name. It is a big red flag in the postal system.

Ordered a boring item under a fake name years ago when I was more naive about this stuff. The postal worker came to my door personally and was clear that if you're trying to be incognito that is the worst way you could do it. Blend in just use your real name. Anyone can send you anything in your name anyway it doesn't mean you ordered it.


Did you transfer funds from an exchange?

Monero doesn't have RBF so 0 conf is relatively safe compared to Bitcoin. Especially for small payments.

Lightning sort of kicks the can down the road imo without solving much and makes things more complicated. It only gives the illusion of final settlement. Nothing really is until it is on chain. You can be rugged by LN channel hosts or peers. If you run your own active node you can rug yourself by not backing up your latest channel state. Tedious and difficult to use in any sovereign manner especially for casual users that's why over 95% use LN custodially defeating the whole point of Bitcoin's creation.


Bitcoin is getting more surveilled by the day. Goodluck with your majority KYC'd miners and non fungible panopticon.
https://m.primal.net/HJFY.jpg
https://m.primal.net/HIIn.png


This is a ridiculous argument. The overwhelming majority of users don't have the fortune of being around before chain analysis was a thing and dont have the OpSec Satoshi did. I'm sure if Satoshi didn't disappear and continued transacting they would've eventually been revealed with more advanced techniques or due to their own mistakes. Just like all the recent Silk Road admin Bitcoin busts.


Just because he can't find it doesn't mean others cannot.

Or that chain analyst companies and governments cannot. Or that you won't mess up in the future. Or that you wont be unjustly associated with activities or people you had nothing to do with in the future. Or that 99% of users don't operate like you.

https://www.torekeland.com/roman-sterlingov/


I wonder why you "don't recommend keeping a lot of funds there". Could it be because Liquid/LN are different from Bitcoin? 🤔 You would think if they were the same thing you could keep your whole stack on them. Major differences.

Now you say "bro it's just trade offs" well then apply that same logic to Monero. Just trade offs. Don't keep a lot of funds on there. You don't have to jump thru mental gymnastics.


No it doesn't. Especially when hinging on that caveat "if used correctly" which most users won't.

https://voltage.cloud/blog/lightning-network-faq/lightning-network-privacy-explainer/

https://blog.keys.casa/lightning-privacy-101/

Monero is just another trade off, like lightning/liquid, which you have no problem using. Except, unlike both, it doesn't compromise most major value props of Bitcoin.  "I don't recommend keeping a lot of funds there" - Ok, just apply this same advice to Monero. Done.


Yet still continue to recommend a solution that compromises nearly all major value props of Bitcoin and offers vastly inferior privacy...

Great, then you admit the word shitcoin has lost virtually all meaning.


>Anon set matters for privacy thats why Bitcoin is better
>Anon set doesn't matter for privacy with Liquid vs Monero
This is what we call cognitive dissonance. Choose one.

Not only does Liquid have a trash anon set vs Monero, but Liquid only hides amounts. It doesn't hide sender or reciever. The transaction graph is completely visible. It is also a cucked permissioned network. They also *just* barely open sourced their code a couple of days ago so this whole time yall been recommending a closed source solution LOL. Probably due to Paul Sztorc calling them out recently: https://twitter.com/Truthcoin/status/1689337656319016960
https://blog.liquid.net/expanding-transparency-the-liquid-networks-functionary-code-is-now-open-source/

Liquid:
Alice sent $[?] to Bob

Monero:
6% chance Alice sent $[?] to [?]

If you took any time to understand how ring sigs and privacy by defaults worked you would also realize it's anon set is much larger than Bitcoin.


Get them KYC free

[Fiat <-> BTC]
-Bisq
-Agoradesk
-Robosats
-Peach
-HodlHodl
-Vexl
-Azteco

bisq.network
agoradesk.com
robosats.com
peachbitcoin.com
hodlhodl.com
vexl.it
help.azte.co/category/6-buy-a-voucher


This is advice for curious Bitcoiners not necessarily Monero maxis.

If they think Bitcoin will continue to be the best Store of Value it makes sense. I can't really blame them for thinking this if historically this has been the case. None of us know the future for sure. And they have nothing to lose by continuing to save in Bitcoin and only using Monero to spend.

You can either swap to Monero or have a small amount of Monero that you replenish for spending.


Nothing to do with NGU huh?

You're full of it shishi

note1xhr9q6qsf905mkagklp0wt08443nmvaw8gpj7yfpy7066ge5d6zqk0pxvz


Monero is just another FOSS project like Bitcoin, but traded transparent simple auditability for much better privacy. Simple examples:

Bitcoin transaction:
Alice sent $X to Bob

Monero transaction:
6% chance Alice sent $[?] to [?]

As you see amounts and recievers are completely hidden with Monero (uses confidential transactions and stealth addresses to achieve this. They don't appear on the blockchain at all). Coinjoining Bitcoin only obfuscates, but the transaction graph and range of connections and amounts still exist to be uncovered with more data or user mistakes.

Save with Bitcoin, spend with Monero if you value privacy.


O Monero é FOSS, tal como o Bitcoin. Onde está a confiança?


exatamente


To be fair, Monero doesn't erase KYC either. It only helps forward privacy.

You have to buy KYC-free with both Bitcoin and Monero.


a tua opinião é uma shitcoin


Yes to a permissioned network with less privacy (only hides amounts) than a privacy coin, then later switch to a custodial and rehypothecateable IOU?...Some bitcoiners have lost the plot huh

https://twitter.com/Truthcoin/status/1689337656319016960


#1  #3  You can get Monero KYC free easily. If you need huge amounts, buy Bitcoin KYC free -> swap to Monero. Tada!

#2  Doesn't make sense. It's either private for everyone or no one. You can't have it both traceable for criminals and private for honest users.

#4  Weak point too. You are worried about hypothetical future "privacy leaks" while your blockchain is completely public. Concern trolling. If you would read that article you would see it was only an increase in probability of choosing sender, wasn't deterministic. And even if they guessed correctly they would STILL NOT KNOW amount sent OR who the reciever was.

You cant do necessary upgrades in the privacy arms race without hardforks. The code is FOSS that is all that matters. If slim chance that all devs and maintainers nefariously collaborate we will just fork the project like we did from Bitmonero.


Ceteris paribus Monero will always be more private than Bitcoin. Bitcoin is a public blockchain. Cope.


M...O...N...E...R...O  👁  👄  👁


Oh it's something...

Most bitcoin maxis use it, but just don't talk about it for fear of backlash.

The few remainders that don't are just on the far left of the bell curve.
https://us-southeast-1.linodeobjects.com/dufflepud/uploads/1ca32eab-a046-4112-86d3-1b1acf6afe59.jpg


I couldn't be farther away politically from the author, but he is a great writer


Stonewall is basically a "mini coinjoin"

Ricochet is another tool on Samourai that is used if you need to send to a CEX or business that might flag a transaction coming from a coinjoin. It places 5 hops between your coinjoin and your destination for more plausible deniability that you were the one who coinjoined.

My advice is to stay away from L-BTC. It is a permissioned network with inferior privacy to Monero.
 L-BTC:
Alice sent $[?] to Bob

Monero:
~6% chance Alice sent $[?] to [?]

Careful with swapping BTC -> XMR -> BTC to break your trail...Many caveats, trivial to trace if not done correctly, and not recommended unless you really know what you're doing.
 Most recommended method:
BTC -> XMR -> Spend XMR
 Alternatively:
BTC -> Coinjoin -> Spend BTC
 Not recommended. But if you are still deadset on going BTC -> XMR -> BTC doing this will make it more difficult to trace:
1) Wait at least a day before swapping back into btc. The longer you wait the better. [to resist timing attacks]
2) Break it up into several chunks. Do not send the same amount back into btc in one go. DO NOT consolidate after. [to resist amount analysis]
3) Do the first swap (btc -> xmr) on exchange A. Do the second swap (xmr -> btc) on exchange B. [prevents single exchange from having a full view of both swaps]
4) Do all this behind tor/i2p or at least a good VPN (mullvad, ivpn, safingIO spn) to remain anonymous. Change your tor identity or vpn server for each swap.


This is such a hard point to drive thru to Bitcoiners. I feel it is more ideological than anything...

YOU
DONT
HAVE
TO
SAVE
WITH
MONERO

Use it!

*Today* and for the near forseeable future, Monero is much more private than LN. What good will future privacy do if you can be revealed if you use LN today?

In the future, LN is more private, since it is not recorded on a blockchain as you say *IF* (Big IF!) no one is currently saving that data. We know chain analysis is very likely saving that data! And we have no clue if central hubs are saving most network data!

Let us look at Darknet Markets. Increasingly using Monero. Soon to overtake Bitcoin. True skin in the game, their literal lives are on the line, and ultimate market test.
https://us-southeast-1.linodeobjects.com/dufflepud/uploads/e97e54ee-5133-4ce9-a583-3389d04c69c0.png


Can't stop us bruh

I'm here to set the record straight 🏄♂


Every 10 minutes you are personally reading the blockchain and making sure all input and all outputs are equal to 0? You are either lying or must get no sleep sir.

You realize the only thing that saved bitcoin from that inflation bug was the good samaritan nature of a single anonymous user right? No amount of transparency could've stopped him from exploiting it.

Well, Bitcoin ever hardforking is a longshot, and if you need private transactions *today*, not in some hypothetical future, that is what Monero is for.


With these Bticoin's rising fees HFSP

Better plan on HODLing forever
https://us-southeast-1.linodeobjects.com/dufflepud/uploads/f146dfc2-c26d-4de0-8713-c25d4844612d.png


It is much stronger that that. The built in "coinjoin-like-function" of Ring Signatures (15 decoys) are only 1 of 4 layers of Monero privacy tech. It is one of the weakest parts and only for senders. Dandelion++ also obfuscates IP origination.

The parts that make Monero really shine are:
Confidential Transactions completely hides amount
Stealth Addresses completely hides reciever

Simple example of a Monero transaction:

~6% chance Alice sent $[?] to [?]

Unlike simple coinjoins, the transaction graph connecting senders to recievers doesn't exist. Amounts are not available to analyze either. All you could know from just looking at a blockchain transaction is a 64-character string maybe signed a Monero transaction.

How much? To who? That is unknown.
https://us-southeast-1.linodeobjects.com/dufflepud/uploads/a72bd040-48c7-4b14-8b6f-8aba8b1e829f.jpg


You audit Monero the same way you audit Bitcoin. You run a node.

The code is completely FOSS.

No Bitcoiner is taking advantage of Bitcoins transparent/simple math to scrutinize the blockchain anyway so that doesn't help you. Are you making sure every block that all input = all outputs? No, you just run your node and pay no mind. So in practice what is the difference?

Monero audits supply using bulletproofs and pedersen commitments. It is well established and sound cryptography from the 80s, but admittedly more complex than bitcoins simple math.

An exploited inflation bug would be equally catastrophic once it happened to either Bitcoin or Monero. Attackers have the advantage. There is no good solution to fix an exploited inflation bug without hurting other users on either Bitcoin or Monero.

Trivia: Did you know there was a hidden inflation bug in Bitcoin only an anonymous user knew? They couldve easily exploited it, but very luckily they were an honest actor who secretly let the devs know (who couldve also decided to exploit it). If they did exploit it, how would detectable inflation help after the fact? It wouldnt.

https://bitcoincore.org/en/2018/09/20/notice/

Again none of this matters if you don't use Monero to save. So it's all moot.


How do Bitcoiners audit supply of Bitcoin? You probably just run a node to do this exactly like every Bitcoin and Monero user. No Bitcoiner is taking advantage of it's transparency/simple math to scrutinize the whole blockchain every block to make sure every single output equals all inputs. So in practice what is the difference?

Monero audits supply using bulletproofs and pedersen commitments. It is not obscure it is well established and sound cryptography from the 80s, but admittedly more complex than bitcoins simple math.

An exploited inflation bug would be equally catastrophic once it happened to either Bitcoin or Monero. Attackers have the advantage. There is no good solution to fix this without hurting other users on either Bitcoin or Monero.

Trivia: Did you know there was a hidden inflation bug in Bitcoin only an anonymous user knew? They couldve easily exploited it, but very luckily they were an honest actor who secretly let the devs know (who couldve also decided to exploit it). If they did exploit it, how would detectable inflation help after the fact? It wouldnt.

https://www.coindesk.com/markets/2018/09/21/the-latest-bitcoin-bug-was-so-bad-developers-kept-its-full-details-a-secret/


Buy things...like you do with any money. Except it isn't controlled and surveilled. Just gave you a massive directory.

[Spend Monero directly]
monerica.com
moneromarket.io
kycnot.me/services
torproject.org

[Monero -> Gift Cards for everything else]
coincards.com
coinsbee.com


Nicolas van Saberhagen (anonymous)

...Maybe it was the disillusioned Satoshi Nakamoto 👀


Fiat -> Monero:
-Local Monero (localmonero.co)
-Bisq (bisq.network)

If you already have other KYC-free coin you can also go...
 BTC/altcoins -> Monero:
-Trocador (trocador.app) ...privacy-focused exchange aggregator
-Unstoppable Swap (unstoppableswap.net) ...atomic swap
-KYCNotMe (kycnot.me) ...more exchanges

⚡ 𝕱𝖎𝖆𝖙 𝕯𝖊𝖓𝖎𝖊𝖗 ⚡🧄


How many tx fee for $BTC 😬


I find it hard to believe you were involvded with Monero in any serious sense if you think the only privacy tech Monero uses are ring sigs.
https://us-southeast-1.linodeobjects.com/dufflepud/uploads/1e2f2c53-4d14-4e71-ba34-00053ff559c5.png


The "can't be audited" argument is weak when you consider a few things...

1) Exactly 100% of bitcoiners run a node and call it a day. Exactly like you audit with Monero. No Bitcoiner is taking advantage of it's transparency/simple math and scrutinizing the whole blockchain to make sure everything is correct.

2) AND an exploited inflation bug would be equally catastrophic if it happened to Bitcoin or Monero. Once it happens it is too late. There is no good solution. You can't undo it without hurting users.

So, who really cares if you can see it. You will know it was exploited directly with Bitcoin, or indirectly with Monero, but nothing can be done about it. The damage will be done.


FYI just to be clear I also hodl some bitcoin.

You can treat it like:
Bitcoin = major savings in a bank vault
Monero = trivial spending cash in your wallet

You can buy KYC-free directly with fiat from "Local Monero" or "Bisq" or swap a little when needed using trocador.app (exchange aggregator) or unstoppable.net (atomic swap)


Yes, for the Monero timid, it virtually eliminates any risk of holding Monero long term while gaining all the benefits (true privacy, faster, cheaper tx fees vs coinjoining).

Just treat it like cash in your wallet.


We can be pretty annoying tbh 😂


And I can pick at tight ASIC manufacturer chokepoints, vulnerable corporate mining farm centralization, and less than discrete energy draw, heat, and noise.

But fair enough, we choose our trade offs.


No argument. Just another braindead npc btc maxi parrot.

I know this is your enitre world, but average people aren't going to read a 274 page manual to transact "privately" on bitcoin. They have lives and other interests. Money has to just work.

Monero obfuscates sender and IP. Reciever and amounts dont appear on the blockchain at all. I send you Monero, done. No 20 pound tome required. Superior MoE vs Bitcoin. Cheaper, easier, more private, and actually fungible (ideal quality of money)

And get this - You can still continue hodling in Bitcoin 😱!!!


My condolences


A Cypherpunk's Manifesto

Privacy is necessary for an open society in the electronic age. Privacy is not secrecy. A private matter is something one doesn't want the whole world to know, but a secret matter is something one doesn't want anybody to know. Privacy is the power to selectively reveal oneself to the world.

If two parties have some sort of dealings, then each has a memory of their interaction. Each party can speak about their own memory of this; how could anyone prevent it? One could pass laws against it, but the freedom of speech, even more than privacy, is fundamental to an open society; we seek not to restrict any speech at all. If many parties speak together in the same forum, each can speak to all the others and aggregate together knowledge about individuals and other parties. The power of electronic communications has enabled such group speech, and it will not go away merely because we might want it to.

Since we desire privacy, we must ensure that each party to a transaction have knowledge only of that which is directly necessary for that transaction. Since any information can be spoken of, we must ensure that we reveal as little as possible. In most cases personal identity is not salient. When I purchase a magazine at a store and hand cash to the clerk, there is no need to know who I am. When I ask my electronic mail provider to send and receive messages, my provider need not know to whom I am speaking or what I am saying or what others are saying to me; my provider only need know how to get the message there and how much I owe them in fees. When my identity is revealed by the underlying mechanism of the transaction, I have no privacy. I cannot here selectively reveal myself; I must always reveal myself.

Therefore, privacy in an open society requires anonymous transaction systems. Until now, cash has been the primary such system. An anonymous transaction system is not a secret transaction system. An anonymous system empowers individuals to reveal their identity when desired and only when desired; this is the essence of privacy.

Privacy in an open society also requires cryptography. If I say something, I want it heard only by those for whom I intend it. If the content of my speech is available to the world, I have no privacy. To encrypt is to indicate the desire for privacy, and to encrypt with weak cryptography is to indicate not too much desire for privacy. Furthermore, to reveal one's identity with assurance when the default is anonymity requires the cryptographic signature.

We cannot expect governments, corporations, or other large, faceless organizations to grant us privacy out of their beneficence. It is to their advantage to speak of us, and we should expect that they will speak. To try to prevent their speech is to fight against the realities of information. Information does not just want to be free, it longs to be free. Information expands to fill the available storage space. Information is Rumor's younger, stronger cousin; Information is fleeter of foot, has more eyes, knows more, and understands less than Rumor.

We must defend our own privacy if we expect to have any. We must come together and create systems which allow anonymous transactions to take place. People have been defending their own privacy for centuries with whispers, darkness, envelopes, closed doors, secret handshakes, and couriers. The technologies of the past did not allow for strong privacy, but electronic technologies do.

We the Cypherpunks are dedicated to building anonymous systems. We are defending our privacy with cryptography, with anonymous mail forwarding systems, with digital signatures, and with electronic money.

Cypherpunks write code. We know that someone has to write software to defend privacy, and since we can't get privacy unless we all do, we're going to write it. We publish our code so that our fellow Cypherpunks may practice and play with it. Our code is free for all to use, worldwide. We don't much care if you don't approve of the software we write. We know that software can't be destroyed and that a widely dispersed system can't be shut down.

Cypherpunks deplore regulations on cryptography, for encryption is fundamentally a private act. The act of encryption, in fact, removes information from the public realm. Even laws against cryptography reach only so far as a nation's border and the arm of its violence. Cryptography will ineluctably spread over the whole globe, and with it the anonymous transactions systems that it makes possible.

For privacy to be widespread it must be part of a social contract. People must come and together deploy these systems for the common good. Privacy only extends so far as the cooperation of one's fellows in society. We the Cypherpunks seek your questions and your concerns and hope we may engage you so that we do not deceive ourselves. We will not, however, be moved out of our course because some may disagree with our goals.

The Cypherpunks are actively engaged in making the networks safer for privacy. Let us proceed together apace.

Onward.

Eric Hughes