"People who don't run nodes aren't actually using Bitcoin to its fullest extent, even if they hold their own keys..."
I don't see how this detracts from my point that almost no Bitcoiners are capable and/or interested in understanding/verifying for themselves. They're just "trusting". So how is that different from Monero for those users (vast majority of Bitcoiners)?

"Payjoin is not privacy by obfuscation...Payjoin allows users to break input heuristics..."
In other words obfuscation...it's ownership obfuscation. If it wasn't, you wouldn't need to break heuristics because it wouldn't be possible to begin with i.e. Pedersen Commitments and Stealth Addresses used by Monero that actually hide information.

"Does it solve "privacy"? of course not (theres other heuristics), but it's an incremental improvement..."
I was never contesting that payjoins are an improvement. They surely are. But it is still weaker obfuscation. It is "leaky" and vulnerable to statistical analysis. This is why Monero sender privacy is weaker than it's other layers and is replacing ring signatures with FCMPs.

"That's just the nature of the design...Privacy isn't a feature of the base layer (utxos), and the idea is to build privacy tools in protocols using the existing utxo set instead of going out and build a whole new token..."
Okay, I get that. But "why" Bitcoin is designed this way doesn't change the fact that Bitcoin is not private.

"Personally "Use this token if you want privacy" doesn't make sense to me. Cryptonote tokens don't have the same assurances."
Ok, again, that last part has nothing to do with privacy.

"The claims you made that those PoW schemes have advantages in accessibility, ubiquity, plausible deniability (strange selection btw) and declaring those schemes as means to control energy draw, noise, or heat is nonsense. Those schemes exist to obfuscate energy use -- adding unnecessary complexity to a transparent process."
You're conflating the reasons RandomX was created with unintended advantages that emerged from it. I never claimed those were the reasons why RandomX was created.
You say they are strange and nonsense advantages, yet don't really elaborate why.
Having more accessible and ubiquitous general purpose mining + being able to "blend in" and have plausible deniability that you are mining, sound like massive advantages in adversarial environments to me.
i.e.
"Police raid a concealed #Bitcoin mining operation, initially mistaking it for an illegal marijuana farm due to the heat signature"
https://twitter.com/BitcoinNewsCom/status/1721359382745874489

It would be more honest to say both projects are optimizing for different goals and have advantages/disadvantages that come with them. The same way a hammer is not the ideal tool for every single task that exists.


"DiosDelRayo completes second milestone for 'XmrSigner' CCS proposal"

https://monero.observer/diosdelrayo-completes-second-milestone-xmrsigner-ccs-proposal/


Potential Monero Ecash tokens in 3-6 months (maybe)

Cool

nostr:nevent1qqsqv37s8fyqx0we6l4rs32h9hxrv52c8phzr0yd74lt26yyczgx5ygzxkk75


What strong privacy option does Bitcoin have available that doesn't include at least one of the following: 1) custodians 2) permissioned transactions 3) painful UX


Cool centralized ledger price chart for your decentralized ledger, but asking permission to transact on white markets to use a permissionless money defeats it's entire purpose.

Here are the the only relevant NGU

https://image.nostr.build/1f90427dc509f688d750d255d92b72f31f9bd43b8d097617e5418697e49f98a7.jpg
https://image.nostr.build/305ddddd998a40b0bf14775adb40415acb42e752fa204feb384947fda6c2a877.jpg
https://image.nostr.build/c444a5dca74587682aeb7ea469eec4255bba134d25c5b594c4d21c6f4b3b319f.jpg


By "Monero support" do you mean Monero Ecash tokens? 👀


#Monero tips hit different 💜
Thanks Anon.


If you add a Monero address to your Nostr profile (look at mine as an example) Garnet users can one-click tip your notes with Monero

Also if you need a simple quick swap from Bitcoin to Monero I recommend trocador.app


:monero:


You can find a list of nerostr instances here: https://github.com/hundehausen/monero-nostr-relays


Check out  nostr:npub1tuta00sz4wvvzymqcfq42cqhxal6puqpylxs4yf0z28z3ryvfh9qkqmv92's Nerostr project to run a #nostr relay and get paid in #monero. It's running the https://xmr.usenostr.org/ relay and it's great.


So I got some stats from one of the bigger vendors at #PorcFest this year:
Percentage of revenue:
#Cash 72.2%
#Goldbacks 11.77%
#Monero 5.42%
#Silver 4.44%
#Zelle 2.69%
#BitcoinLightning 1.82%
#BitcoinCash 0.62%
#Litecoin 0.56%
#Bitcoin 0.47%

The vendor accepts any crypto. Over the years he also received #Dash, #XRP, #Doge, #TFuel and #ETH .

The percentage of crypto sales in general was:
~7% in 2022
~9% in 2023
~9% in 2024

So the numbers, only looking at crypto, are:
#XMR 61.0%
#BTC-LN 20.5%
#BCH 7.0%
#LTC 6.3%
#BTC 5.3%


So happy for this!  #garnet #monero 💖 nostr:note104fagychkmrzv3jkss0wpmdjnspkqkx4rwq4jm24q6plfammhlrs7xmrzp


Based af


You guys are way too generous with your Monero tips

Thanks anons


My absolute favorite accounts on Nostr, are the ones that don’t like bitcoin.

Those folks are the most bullish people on Nostr here.


That's just a hypothetical, not reality.
We could easily make up a hypothetical where Bitcoin would also break.
"What if Bitcoin suddenly had 100x more transactions? 1,000x? 10,000x?" 😱
On-chain and lightning would be unusable like we see every time there is even a moderate spike in use.
Aren't you worried about my hypothetical?

Not having privacy is also not a free. There is no free lunch with anything.
You pay for it in different ways i.e. surveillance, fungibility, target mining censorship resistance, etc
What trade offs do you value?

Self-responsibility, freedom, and privacy have always been niche.

But if you think Bitcoin has time to figure out scalability and a global takeover scenario, in it's much higher use and popularity, then so does Monero.
Technology + time has shown to be our friend.

https://image.nostr.build/563fe6fae92d9f1459b7f4bc85978712a23a1b2c08bd389e681bad97f97a84e7.jpg


We're all on the spectrum here


First you say the advantages of Bitcoin are because it's so simple to understand the math for users...
Now you're wanting me to go in circles with you explaining the intricacies of ed22519 VS secp256k1 as if most users would understand the cryptography underlying Bitcoin and not just trust the few people who understand it to tell them it's ok.
LOL
Choose an argument bro

I was talking about general protocols when referring to 70s-90s not specific curves or hash functions.
It's fair and factually true to say that Moneros chosen curve and hash function is newer and not as battle-tested.
They both have their pros and cons. i.e. SHA-2 security is less "future proof" and more likely to be compromised before SHA-3, less versatile, less efficient, etc
Red flags like Bitcoins chosen curve and hash function having heavy involvement from the NSA? 🚩🚩🚩
But that would be stupid of me to say that automatically means anything by itself. The same way the age of a curve or hash function doesn't automatically mean anything by itself.
What is your response to the node runner issues I brought up? Being able to do something, but never doing it, is functionally the same as not being able to do it.

Payjoin is obfuscation. Obfuscation is weaker privacy than encryption. You seem too intelligent to accidentally leave that out.

I never contested that Bitcoin isn't ticking along. Monero is ticking along too. Why is that relevant?

RandomX has different advantages over ASICs and vice versa. Accessibility, ubiquity, plausible deniability (i.e. energy draw, noise, heat, everyone knows what you're doing/going to do with that ASIC miner you bought, etc)

PS: True, fair enough 👍

Again, Bitcoins advantages DO NOT extend into white markets. If you're going to ask permission to transact and follow the rules (thats what i means to operate on white markets) you might as well use fiat for that. Bitcoin is just a slower, less accepted, expensive (in tx fees and tax liabilities), less private version of fiat in that scenario. Worse in every way.
Normies will always outnumber ideological anything by definition...


Me neither tbh 😂

Sure thats fair we don't know if Satoshi ever had other addresses that we don't know about, but thats anonymity and doesn't change the fact that their transactions are not private. It would be ideal to have both.

As an analogy imagine being able to read the incoming and outgoing texts/calls of a random number. You might not know who they are at the moment, but over time you'll get enough data to narrow it down and figure it out.

But the subject was buying from Coinbase (requires KYC) and CJing is not the case by default with BTC. Most users just withdraw without ever coinjoining much less every transaction. Or they few naively coinjoin and then consolidate. And still plenty of privacy leaks even if you do coinjoin because it is just obfuscation not encryption.

Yea, if the FBI wants you bad enough you might be screwed, but why give them passive surveillance over everyone? Make them have to actively work for it. That dramatically increases time and effort required which massively shrinks the pool of users they could ever go after.


"mixers have been keeping dealers and buyers safe for over a decade"

https://www.torekeland.com/roman-sterlingov/

https://www.justice.gov/usao-sdny/pr/founders-and-ceo-cryptocurrency-mixing-service-arrested-and-charged-money-laundering?ref=blog.ronindojo.io

https://www.coindesk.com/policy/2024/04/29/wasabi-wallet-developer-blocks-us-citizens-and-residents-after-samourai-wallet-arrests/

https://sethforprivacy.com/posts/fungibility-graveyard/


It's not on Coinbase.

But even if it was ...dont buy it on Coinbase maybe? 🤷♂

And even if it was, and you did buy it from there, Coinbase can't follow the transaction once you withdraw it similar to withdrawing cash from an ATM


Funny that people *still* don't understand the difference between anonymity and privacy

And btw we DO know Satoshis addresses and transaction history because Bitcoin isnt private


Please keep talking about Monero. It hurts it the more you talk about it. If you talk about it enough I'm sure it will go away. Don't give up!


There's nothing "over the top" about Moneros tech. It's based on cryptography from 70s-90s (Diffie–Hellman key exchanges and commitment schemes)

The venn diagram of "mathematicians and privacy advocates" AKA cryptographers

There's at least tens of millions of Bitcoin users. ~20,000-50,000 Bitcoin nodes. A fraction of that previous fraction are more than simpler node runners who actually pay attention to whats going on. Vast majority is obviously not capable and/or interested in understanding/verifying for themselves even with Bitcoins "simple" math.

Ability to fork is the whole point of FOSS. You can't control what software individuals choose to run. That includes Bitcoin software.

As normie Bitcoiners continue to dilute ideological Bitcoiners theres no guarantee the economic majority will stay on BTC in the future. It's easy to imagine governments having a "regulatory friendly" fork using carrots and sticks (i.e. tax breaks, credits, heavy taxation or even criminalization of BTC use, etc) to incentivize normies into taking their NGU and hashpower with them to that fork. Without that what is left of BTC? Bitcoins advantages dont extend into permissioned white markets where most of BTC price, transactions, and liquidity comes from today (CEXs, ETFs, corpo mining, etc)


Bitcoin: A government-2-government electronic reserve system


It's p2p digital cash

Strong privacy without the custodians, asking permission, or painful UX (i.e. L-BTC, custodial lightning, ecash, sovereign LN, etc)


Less coins in circulation than Bitcoin (18.4mil vs 19.7mil)
Less inflation rate than Bitcoin (3 coins/10min vs 3.125 coins/10min)
Riccardo didn't create Moneros Cryptonote protocol and isn't even involved with Monero anymore (Not that it even matters. It's FOSS. You don't have to trust anyone.)
Yes, you verify by running a node exactly like you would do to verify Bitcoin

All this info is a simple click away with your favorite search engine


There is a grocery store in Long Island, New York that accepts #Monero directly. No gift cards, no converting into another currency. Straight up cold hard Monero.

Doug and Sunitafrom Monerotopia/Monero Talk paid them a visit and did a little shopping. https://xmrbazaar.com/listing/8Wb6/

https://nostrcheck.me/media/3fef59378dce7726d3ef35d4699f57becf76d3be0a13187677126a66c9ade3b8/e70fbfb8e6661be4be99b6d5864a24719ed254772761939425498cc18103bc04.mp4


https://xmrbazaar.com/search/earn-xmr/

EARN Monero with your skills.

nostr:nevent1qqsvhfvu9gush8nz8nuxw956t73kpqxrmm6m3evn7430u0n8v56q6ggpz4mhxue69uhhyetvv9ujuerpd46hxtnfduhsygzxt6cngpxhyxwdj8ptf298uvy26nsfhsff3hqgchhvs5hfhaw6pypsgqqqqqqsy5uvke


FYI SeedSigner doesn't even have to use Garnet. They can simply add a Monero address to their profile and any Garnet user will still be able to one-click tip them Monero for any note they make 👌

If they want of course. No pressure. It's just sweet sweet digital cash after all 😙👌


Undoubtedly annoying. "Pocket Change" feature would make this a non-issue. It's already on Monerujo wallet so hopefully we can get it on the built-in Garnet wallet so users don't have to worry lock times.

https://anhdres.medium.com/monerujos-pocketchange-what-it-is-and-how-it-works-8e1ea1f7489e


It would be more challenging to have a zapathon equivalent for monero due to its long settlement times. For rapid succesion of value transfers to different users, you'd want to establish individual UTXOs that would be spendable before an event.


Yea that is nice to have. Next major upgrade Seraphis (1-2 years out) enables payment channels on Monero


Do you verify Bitcoin by checking every single input/output yourself for a billion+ transactions?
Or do you simply run a Bitcoin node?
You have your answer.


That's why it's called "electronic" or "digital" cash

Physical cash is nice locally, but you can't use it to transact instantly over large distances with anyone on the planet

A few other downsides with physical cash:

-Can't carry arbitrarily large amounts.
-Vulnerable to confiscation and theft.
-More difficult to verify authenticity on-the-fly.
-Issuance is centralized, unpredictable, and doesn't require PoW.
-Not as easily divisible (Need to carry specific denominations and change)
-Can't trustlessly exchange for crypto (no atomic swaps)
-Can't have multiple people with simultaneous ownership and control over the same cash (multisig)


Yes true in general, but particularly for UnstoppableSwap and Haveno (very new). There is a new CCS proposal to make the UX a lot better for UnstoppableSwap. Also excited to see what Serai brings.

Don't know much about it but n3xB looks interesting

https://repo.getmonero.org/monero-project/ccs-proposals/-/merge_requests/477

https://yewtu.be/watch?v=w2cbNgpOgEY


I was able to tip this note from Garnet so the xmr address in your profile works 👍


*AT LEAST* 80% of zaps and 94% of lightning addresses are custodial (Not even Bitcoin maxis can be bothered with painful UX of soveriegn LN!)

Meaning it's not even theoretically private for the overwhelming majority of users. Sender, receiver, and amounts all visible to third parties by default. Big sad.

Congratulations though if you're the 0.0001% who correctly jumped all 54 hoops that Super Testnet talks about 🥳

We all know if there is one thing that users love is when things are made as inconvenient as possible

https://zapalytics.com/


There is this web client as well. Both are very new though use cautiously.

https://anarkio.codeberg.page/nostril/#/home/


Monero Minute is here with updates for you....
- Monerica DDOS attack
- Haveno Updates
- Keystone Hardware Wallet Integrating Monero?
- Cake Wallet releases Wownero & other updates!

https://v.nostr.build/8FGvcNkyoIJmVAgI.mp4

#CakeWallet #Monero


Giacomo Zucco and Tony Vays. Totally not bias AT ALL 🙄

Here is a more nuanced video with Giacomo that isnt a circle jerk and actually has someone there to pushback

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P1PRKKlI-Jo


To be more charitable I do like lightnings ephemeral nature nostr:npub1yxp7j36cfqws7yj0hkfu2mx25308u4zua6ud22zglxp98ayhh96s8c399s and think that aspect of lightning is great


Ah I get it now

For those who want the TLDR of your reply:

https://image.nostr.build/9a93e3cf766e56bb4cede32215a75f002206cff783b1864e238b841a72a3c0b6.png


Matthew the type of guy to say the market is always right when it comes to Bitcoin, but tell you why it's wrong when it comes to Monero on the only truly free and permissionless markets on the planet

Matthew the type of guy to say "Bitcoin already won the money race" and how network effects and first mover advantages are supreme, but have no explanation for the Monero-shaped darknet elephant in the room

Matthew the type of guy to extol Bitcoins decentralized ledger, but then almost always refers to it's price charts and volume on centralized ledgers

Matthew the type of guy that talks about anonymity sets and hiding in large crowds, but then uses a transparent, deterministic, and weakly pseudonymous blockchain

Matthew the type of guy that likes to bring up robust global circular economies, but never spends and is obsessed with hodling

Matthew the type of guy that talks about hot potato money, but doesn't mention Monero is delisted from almost every major exchange Bitcoin is on yet STILL holding it's own *despite* that MASSIVE disadvantage


SeraiDEX should help with this. But right now there is Unstoppable Swap, Bisq, Haveno, and Trocador


This is just so rich for someone saying to use a network with notoriously terrible receiver privacy, amount privacy that isn't guaranteed by larger nodes, and IP that is exposed by default to others on the network

But none of the above really matters if the vast majority of lightning users are on on custodial wallets that see everything

https://zapalytics.com/


Oops yea that's what I meant 🤭

Mutiny uses Olympus for their LSP?

TIL


I don't see the contradiction

Phoenix is always permissioned and you can't change that

I'm letting users know Mutiny is also permissioned by default UNLESS you use your own node. And lets get real most users wont do that.


Probably comparable to dollar bills yea. I was never arguing zaps aren't fungible or more fungible than on chain. I shouldve been clear my original reply was about on chain Bitcoin. I do think privacy issues hurt  fungibility to a certain degree depending on magnitude of the issue - like Moneros sender privacy w/ ringsigs or LN receiver privacy i.e. the way dollar bills can be tracked in a broad sense by serial number, but you never know the "full history" of any particular bill.

I know users say lightning and on-chain are both Bitcoin, and it is, but I don't think that is true in practice i.e. UX, security, trade-offs etc. it functions as it's own thing with different properties VS on chain Bitcoin.


?

Phoenix can literally censor your transactions if they wanted and you can't change that

Mutiny is better in that regard since you aren't forced to use their node


They aren't permissionless to transact though
(Unless you're using your own node with Mutiny, you can't with Phoenix afaik, but that brings UX pain most users aren't going to do)

You also have no privacy from Phoenix. I think Mutiny has a bit more privacy.


I mean you can zap a note anonymously or without Nostr network knowing at all

I actually do think lightning is more fungible than on-chain Bitcoin


Not sure why you uploaded a halving chart goof. That has nothing to do with input/outputs on chain.

You're relying on additional software by using (closed source Excel at that) to do this for you with it's own potential bugs or user error. That's not taking full advantage of Bitcoins transparency to audit.

Pressing a button and having software spit a number back at you is  no different than doing that with a Monero node 🤡


Monero can only protect your privacy for transactions that occur on it's blockchain. Just like Bitcoins security doesn't apply to anything external to it's blockchain. This isn't the dunk you think it is.


It's not just imperfect it offers *zero* sender and receiver privacy.

And for all the misguided crying that Bitcoiners do about "mUh aNonSet" you all choose Liquid that has an abysmally microscopic  crowd to hide in.


From a custodial wallet like the vast majority of zaps where a third party sees everything or from your own LN node?If I zap you the 1 sat back do you have receiver privacy?

If we ignore everything above, do you hold your entire stack on lightning?

https://zapalytics.com/


Yes


You can just do that yourself by putting it somewhere in your profile/bio with any old Nostr client (create a Monero wallet with Cake, Monerujo, or Stack and copy/paste an address from your wallet) look at my profile as an example

Alternatively you can migrate your nsec over to Garnet and it automatically does this


Should be able to by next update


A nostr client supporting monero is released and suddenly people here get a severe case of Monero Derangement Syndrome. Are people afraid of going to hell for lack of purity? 😅


That and implementing Monerujos "pocket change" feature would avoid the lock times


Just add a Monero address in your profile and any Garnet user can use the Monero tip button for any post your make. No need to make a new npub if you don't want to.


I've read discussion of implementing Monerujos "Pocket Change" to avoid lock spending time


Get #Garnet #Monero

#share #boost #tip

https://github.com/retrnull/garnet/releases


Social Media Sovereignty
👇🏻
Using Nostr Client Garnet
With Own Monero Relay
With Own Monero Node

https://pmnr.xmr.rocks/


Holy! I might be a bit late to the party, but I just checked the recent numbers from ShopInBit.com for june:

#Monero 74,54 % 👀🤯🥳
#Bitcoin   23,64 % 😂
#LightningNetwork  1,73 % 🤣
FIAT 0,08 %

https://xcancel.com/shopinbit/status/1811651225005195471

Also they said if Monero surpasses the volume of Bitcoin in the next two month, they change their bio to "Europe's biggest Bitcoin and Monero Store" (which should obviously name Monero first but whatever xD).

Btw the numbers for coincards.com show a similar but not as devastating picture:

#XMR: 34.4%
#BTC (Onchain): 25.96%
#USDC: 20.20%
#ETH: 9.84%
#LTC: 2.49%
#Solana: 2.31%
#Dogecoin: 2.09%
#LightningNetwork: 2.08%
#USDT: 0.58%
#Dai: 0.04%
#Matic: 0.01%
#Dash: 0%

https://xcancel.com/CoinCards/status/1809702144288882870#m


Check out garnet, you can actually use a crypto coin that makes sense for tipping!

https://github.com/retrnull/garnet


monero


Lightning breaks every time there is a surge of use on-chain. Yes, Monero is typically less than a cent to transact.


...Because the vast majority are on custodial wallets. You could make an instant Monero IOU with great UX and be just as fast.

https://zapalytics.com/


This guy went thru a billion+ transactions himself and checked every input/output equaled out

...NOT!! 🤡


Cash, coins, and precious metals are all private and fungible used for hundreds to thousands of years

Bitcoins unprecedented transparency is the odd one out here


If you fear a community will attack you for asking reasonable questions or having a different opinion...

🚩🚩🚩


Stop zapping away your #BTC. Weren't we told to HODL?!

#Monero though? You can send that shit anonymously. It's designed to actually be private peer to peer cash.

Save your Bitcoin anon. Use Monero instead.

nostr:nevent1qqs2ul22pw0x20yfgdy043letm9n82gh7s7x69m2hjptrq37mas7v2gpramhxue69uhkummnw3ez6vpj9ejx7unpveskxar0wfujummjvuhsyg8cumryxsh3upfysp3suflpq9kuud0u8fs5uczrflh54gjsxv5v4ypsgqqqqqqsutc4yu


Used it several times. Went smooth here too.


If you're on android checkout Garnet, it's an amythyst fork that let's you use both and has a built in monero wallet.


MW is def underrated. Scalable and far more private. Bitcoin should've added it long ago. Litecoin already did all the work.

Beam uses MW and has programmability/multigsig/timelocks etc I think (although I don't know much about it)


Yes you can you do it exactly as any Bitcoiner would.

By running a node.


July 24 payment method statistics (not volume based)

#Monero:  69%
#Bitcoin On Chain: 27%
#Litecoin: 3%
#Lightning: 1%

#Bitcoin #Monero #PrivacyMatters

https://m.primal.net/JfSu.png


Liquid doesn't hide sender or receiver
Liquid doesn't hide ip address of transaction origin from other nodes
Liquid has nearly zero anon set
Liquid is multisig members can potentially rug you

A few reasons


I explained and you got angry, deflected, and ran away


:monero:


Yea, so okay then, it isn't exactly the same. Different trade offs like I originally said.

Sell stuff for it, work for it, mine it, trade crypto for it, buy it with cash, etc etc etc like anything else

https://haveno-reto.com/


If they're the same, no differences whatsoever, then send some lightning here:
bc1qtt04zfgjxg7lpqhk9vk8hnmnwf88ucwww5arsd

I've no clue what you're asking. Do you want me to show you how to buy coffee with Monero? Or acquire Monero?


The last link is almost 8 years old...all issues have been long addressed with RingCT, enforced default ring size, etc with FCMP++ around the corner resolving any remaining issues with rings


#monero #xmr #nostr
https://image.nostr.build/1f72c10dc80bde48cca02a34f92f14a464ed4482c76ce513d48c6f36466c0770.jpg
 https://image.nostr.build/e9fb9b420d82300380285fc9c2e07d4ddf8ba951f5bdd89287a0947f046396c4.jpg


Please keep talking about Monero

It hurts it the more you talk about it


Who is telling anyone to trust anything because of quotes? We can go in circles argumentation and facts all day, but you just seem to have a massive Monero chip on your shoulder.

Please show us the full quotes to show how they are "out of context". You can't because they're not.


You're conflating lightning with on-chain. Two different things with different trade offs. Like its painful UX which is a major reason vast majority of users use lightning custodially

Monero anon set is far larger than Bitcoin if you're transacting on-chain and not CJing often.

There's about $300mil of value on Lightning VS $3 BILLION on Monero

Do you mean asking permission to transact on white markets to buy coffee? Why wouldn't I just use fiat for that if I'm going to ask for permission anyway? Much more convenient and everyone accepts it. Don't need to jump thru tax loopholes either.

https://zapalytics.com/


You still have to swap for the other so it's effectively the same thing. That's why things like boltz.exchange exist.

There are multi-coin wallets like Cake and Stack that support both Bitcoin and Monero. Still fail to see any real difference.


What? Aren't layers literally all Bitcoiners talk about?

You already do this with lightning, ecash, liquid, etc. Those all introduce friction.

My on-chain address doesnt work if you want to pay me with any of those.


https://xmrbazaar.com/

https://moneromarket.io/


join us sandy 👁 👄 👁


If you just include a Monero address in your profile (I see you already have one) then the Monero tip button will work on all your notes for Garnet users. You don't need to include a Monero address for every note for us to tip your posts.


That's why everyone uses Lightning custodially. Because it works so darn well.

https://zapalytics.com


If Bitcoin doesn’t get drivechains, Monero is going to make nostr what we all thought it was supposed to be nostr:note1upn83es9p8mm2lrelvyvpt268m4axnps0maj0suxumn09ey54vrsgh76k2


Agree with the sentiment, but just fyi Dero had it's privacy demonstrated to be broken a few months ago so careful (if you didnt already know)

https://x.com/sethforprivacy/status/1791515903206547846

https://gist.github.com/kayabaNerve/b754e9ed9fa4cc2c607f38a83aa3df2a

https://image.nostr.build/95fbce1c8b62ad93fe8f9cf73530c6b0f7767d7085eed51ee0951f5e7d65bbfc.jpg
https://image.nostr.build/ce89957c2ae232a1ddba9a23c4b04c3e7d700138aa35c8871aded8986be091c3.jpg
https://image.nostr.build/ef267b6ec86e24caed7619cc1594a84cf6861743e712e5313014c5c3633546ba.jpg
https://image.nostr.build/6e0e2b8c796f6ef483e962c1bc283d72788d235fad2b1175216b1f2210611100.jpg


This guy just learned about Monero yesterday and is here to tell you everything wrong with it


If you didn't know....

Liquid doesn't hide sender and receiver,
doesn't hide ip address transaction origin from other nodes,
and also has virtually zero anonymity set

Liquid offers nowhere close to the same privacy that Monero offers


Unique histories are the opposite of fungible (uniformity, indistinguishable among other units)


Yes and all that value is specifically on white markets that require permission to transact - defeating the whole point of Bitcoin 🤪

https://github.com/libbitcoin/libbitcoin-system/wiki/Permissionless-Principle


Why you mad tho


Bloat vs what? Monero has a larger size because it is actually private. Bitcoin is a lean, but a surveillance chain. Apples to oranges.

What anon set? All of Bitcoin is not your anon set. If you don't coinjoin you have no anon set on Bitcoin (vast majority of Bitcoiners never CJ let alone every transaction)

Pseudonymous has nothing to do with privacy. Anyone in the world can still see what you're doing even if they don't know who you are at the moment. Your counterparties can peer into your balances as well and see your transaction history.


It comes from insecurity. They have no full alternative to offer users right now in place of Monero so they just get angry about it.


Loving it 💙

https://image.nostr.build/e36f929d8a07c508eef410d83fa94156e48cfd01659d7d3c9aee7a018a3344fd.jpg


:catDance:


i read a lot of monero here atm, here's my little story: sold 10 btc two days ago, had to go through a kyc hell (as the non-kyc market is dead/never worked for bigger amounts) ... bitcoin has become part of the surveillance state, sad but true


You did the meme

https://image.nostr.build/9a93e3cf766e56bb4cede32215a75f002206cff783b1864e238b841a72a3c0b6.png


Tell that to gold. Money of civilization for several millennia without a fixed supply.


You made a meme about Monero...to prove that you don't think about Monero...🤔

Closeted Monero user confirmed 👌


A few new additions I picked up 😉

"Surprising number of Monero lovers on #Nostr. It’s the only altcoin that I consider has a community of actual cypherpunks with similarly aligned values as bitcoin." -Guy Swann

"I have an issue when Bitcoiners get so closed-minded and says Moneros a shitcoin. No it's not. There's some brilliant people there and there's a lot to learn...I'm a fan of Monero." -Nicholas Gregory of Mercury Layer

"Cashu isn't an alternative to Monero. Monero is cool." -Calle


New uipdate for Garnet dropped today!

"
    -Allow selecting subaddresses and setting labels in the receive dialog
    -Show a history of incoming and outgoing tips
    -Allow tipping with an external wallet when the balance is too low
    -Fix a bug where Monero addresses in the profile biography were ignored
    -Fix a bug where subaddresses could be reused for different events
    -Fix the format of the "monero" tag in non-kind 1 events
    -Lower the default tip amounts
"

https://github.com/retrnull/garnet/releases/tag/v0.3.0


By default it isn't necessary because the tips are just normal Monero transactions (everything is done outside nostr, the relays/network doesn't see/know anything about the transaction)

If you choose the other public options...not 100% sure what is going on there, but I remember reading discussion of opening up a new bounty to do verification properly.

Good question though I'm interested in what the answer is too. You should ask retnull on the bounty page to be sure.


By default there is no communication with nostr relays about your tip. It's the same as sending someone a normal Monero transaction outside of Nostr just a little more convenient.

There is an option to make your tip "anonymous" (The general public sees your tip but doesn't know who it is from. Relays know it's from your npub though.)
And a second option to make your tip completely public if you want (everyone sees your tip and knows it's from you).


Check out garnet, you can actually use a crypto coin that makes sense for tipping!

https://github.com/retrnull/garnet


oh just realized this was you 😂


Do you mean because it is on github? I agree probably not the best decision, but it's not like that is some outlandish thing among FOSS apps. Even Bitcoin/Monero have githubs.

 "malicious copyright claim might be building up" What are you referring to?

Its brand spanking new, so I'm not saying you're wrong to be cautious, or even avoid it until more attention and work is put on it, but I at least haven't come across any reason to suspect Garnet is malicious.


What specifically in the code is malware?

There's only one or two users working on it because it was created from a relatively small bounty (very common for most bounties) and was largely under the radar until maybe a week ago...anyone can read the code and make pull requests and contribute any time they want. Hopefully more attention brings more users willing to help work on it.


"Garnet turning out to be malware"

???

What give you this idea? Can you show me who said this and their proof of this?


Bitcoin Proton Wallet

I think it's not a good idea to link money and email address.

Traceable Blockchain + email address = #privacy at risk

That's why #Monero

https://proton.me/support/wallet-bitcoin-via-email#how-to-enable-bitcoin-via-email


Hopefully will be fixed soon I saw an issue open about it


Just playing around with Garnet, an Amethyst clone with Monero integration. You have to uninstall Amethyst before installing Garnet. Looks great so far! Amazing Work.
https://github.com/retrnull/garnet/releases


The U.S. cannot even ban weed - after 70 years of trying. How can a country ban the use of privacy coins like Monero or Apollo, when used on truly distributed exchanges. Banning the invisible, used by the anonymous. Wake up world! Crypto is the mythical Pandora's box come to life


Very sus indeed 🤔🧐


Just to speak to my previous post...I think this is the first-ever Proton product where they're directly stating privacy is *not* a good enough reason to use more privacy-respecting technologies.

If the mission is privacy, this is not it. I really hope Monero is considered.

https://media.social.lol/media_attachments/files/112/842/942/327/227/591/original/6a738c85a7b7d2b6.png


There is a amethyst clone that uses Monero instead of lighting 😳 for tipping or zaping interesting

 https://github.com/retrnull/garnet/releases


It's still very new, not even officially out yet, so lots of bugs and features missing. Temper your expectations for now and don't put a lot of Monero on it if you use it.


Whats that?


Metadata kills.

That's why Monero is not perfect. But still much better for the privacy conscious than Bitcoin.

nostr:nevent1qqswnnzfuaxappugphjwvxv27fnu6cq60vffla9dhtgh375frx3pakqpz9mhxue69uhkummnw3ezuamfdejj7q3qz4m7gkva6yxgvdyclc7zp0vz4ta0s2d9jh8g83w03tp5vdf3kzdsxpqqqqqqzqrfpwa


Also, Just a reminder:

https://apps.umbrel.com/app/monero


How to run a Monero node on your Synology NAS

https://youtu.be/Jc3wfSj5Ffo


Protonmail has a BTC wallet?!

Yup it's Bitcoin-only Layer-1-only tied to your email.

So now all I need is your email and I can see all your transactions.  They claim it makes a new address, but this is propaganda if the input/outputs are being used together.  This is the worst of both email and Bitcoin privacy.

You shouldn't be using a web app in a browser for your L1 Bitcoin, it should be in a local wallet like Electrum.  Just like their email, you don't know what's going on in the cloud.  They write "not your keys, not your coins", but they don't even let you use your own PGP key for email.

Further, they called everything else other than Bitcoin a shitcoin.  Even if we ignore Monero, they still don't even accept lightning for their vpn/email.  Lightning is far better at privacy than L1, and more economical.

This shows they are basically a honeypot propaganda outlet, with a World Economic Forum rep on their board, that hands over thousands of emails a year.  Now they can add bitcoin transactions to give context to those compromised emails.

Once again, I urge you to consider self-hosting your email.  Any small VPS is barely more money than proton's paid plans, and we have cheap plans to set it up for you if you're uninterested in reading technical docs,  https://simplifiedprivacy.com/email-cloud-combo/index.html

Stop living in web apps.  You can really be self-sovereign.


I don't necessarily disagree

I'm just asking what would the difference be? If anything Ecash is an improvement over the current state of custodial lightning.


Damn! The majority are custodial wallets :/
https://nostrcheck.me/media/1577e4599dd10c863498fe3c20bd82aafaf829a595ce83c5cf8ac3463531b09b/a1fa7a42d6aabb24f4d9edd90a6eebe6474361bbb48092df94a888f0e58a391a.webp


Most nostr users already use custodial lightning 💩

Why werent they already doomed?


Cake Wallet v4.19.1 available with smaller (but still important!) updates:
- Fixes for Monero Dart
- Monero Sync Improvements
- ETH Send Improvements
- Exchange Improvements
- Wownero supports adding accounts (like Monero)
- Supports new Ledger wallet
https://m.primal.net/JcCm.jpg


:RedHeart:


A Bitcoin é a NFT original


https://sethforprivacy.com/posts/dispelling-monero-fud/
https://localmonero.co/knowledge
https://libereco.xyz/resources/
https://web.getmonero.org/resources/moneropedia/
https://www.getmonero.org/resources/about/


Ecash itself doesn't hide your ip address. It's not exposed because you're using it over Tor. You can use lightning over Tor too.

Ecash privacy comes from using blinded signatures to break the link between creation and redemption

https://docs.cashu.space/faq#general-safety-and-privacy-questions


By default there is no communication with relays and no public info displayed about your tips. Like Ava said, it's no different from seeing an XMR address on someones nostr profile and sending them Monero, but just slightly more convenient.

The other two options DO compromise anonymity/privacy because you're making it public. There is going to be a new bounty to make those options more anonymous/private though and hide more info from relays. For now I would stay with the defaults to be safe.


Hey some anon tipped me some monero using Garnet! Time to spread the love. 💸


I love seeing the #monero tag on fire the last few days thanks to
https://github.com/retrnull/garnet

Something we've all been waiting for!

May it open the door to seeing tips in other forms of crypto in the future as well.


Cry about it


Advise the same before your UTXOs become unspendable dust

https://image.nostr.build/9f76e4c0f830601c97c152d2b5336ab3a18630c758d0a4ae48b454c08199af30.jpg


Black markets are the only real free markets, they existed long before Bitcoin, and mostly have nothing to do with Bitcoin


Realized it is not working correctly right now. It only works if there is an XMR address and nothing else. Should be fixed next update.


Monero capable #Nostr client. 👀

nostr:nevent1qqs8cs5y2645cxvluxy6cdwy4p0aaw9mkexrjpgk98ng5265nee9cwcppemhxue69uhkummn9ekx7mp0qgsyawyrzrttfmv4cmtx5w2m85702kdct7hv3amfrkhagpdf9cz46mgrqsqqqqqpuh9n8r


FYI for anyone reading this. You don't even have to use Garnet to receive Monero tips from Garnet users. Just have a Monero address somewhere in your profile and they'll be able to tip you ✨


FYI for anyone reading this. You don't even have to use Garnet to receive Monero tips from Garnet users. Just have a Monero address somewhere in your profile and they can tip you.


Based on cursory glance of https://github.com/retrnull/garnet and review of kind 1814 notes and kind 0 profile of common 1814 testers...

In kind 0, adding a field for `cryptocurrency_addresses` where there value is an object whose fields are cryptocurrency types (e.g. `bitcoin`, `monero`, `arrr`) and value is a corresponding address for that type.

nostr:npub1wamvxt2tr50ghu4fdw47ksadnt0p277nv0vfhplmv0n0z3243zyq26u3l2
nostr:npub1j29xk9mnfzcp9twyu0f20zjzk72603a23ax94led2xvxz4sjd99qssssdj
nostr:npub1e6ejh5glnaj4at3l4ggqjs7pp082qj24rklg0uvmmzsly33rqe9s8umxgr
nostr:npub1skkpnkc4vfe586ul425nd7s4a4qqm6nnacr8j52k72tmguyhgltqk8t32y
nostr:npub153pgcxexl4pn0j906t725uj5jkn9hxzemcg635jd60nwzmmysa7q6qgmfn

I would recommend that the cryptocurrency type be the common ticker symbols vs english names to avoid some degree of ambiguity, or even use the coin type numbers from https://github.com/satoshilabs/slips/blob/master/slip-0044.md if restructured into array format.

For example, in kind 0, instead of this for "cryptocurrency_addresses"...

```
{"monero":"55fSXyCcqkdikrxogPb16UKN3SYhkpyH32Ge6ECkAk3PhrBbXEaNcNf3o82q6vEcaR6Hp1YWdDDA6BqUJW1FL3P5Jvo5TyD"}
```

consider...

```
{"XMR": 1"55fSXyCcqkdikrxogPb16UKN3SYhkpyH32Ge6ECkAk3PhrBbXEaNcNf3o82q6vEcaR6Hp1YWdDDA6BqUJW1FL3P5Jvo5TyD"}
```

or...

```
[[128,"55fSXyCcqkdikrxogPb16UKN3SYhkpyH32Ge6ECkAk3PhrBbXEaNcNf3o82q6vEcaR6Hp1YWdDDA6BqUJW1FL3P5Jvo5TyD"]]
```

And maybe the kind 1814 should reference the given ticker or coin type as well for correlation to expedite verification

There's no NIPs referencing kind 1814 as far as I can tell, nor pull requests in the nostr-protocol/nips repo. Strongly encourage writing a specification for this to allow for wider adoption.


For the Monero heads out there, there is an Amethyst fork for you.
nostr:nevent1qqs8cs5y2645cxvluxy6cdwy4p0aaw9mkexrjpgk98ng5265nee9cwcpzemhxue69uhhyetvv9ujumt0wd68ytnsw43z7q3qf6ugxyxkknket3kkdgu4k0fu74vmshawermkj8d06sz6jts9t4ksxpqqqqqqze9zgva


Garnet supports both zaps and Monero tips


This is true it was steeper, but also not as crucial as Bitcoin because of tail emission.

It's also unlikely those early miners just held onto it this whole time. Most traded or sold long ago. Whichever early miners held took on great risk to do so. They deserve any potential gains they made.


Should be fixed soon-ish with monerujos pocket change feature


:RedHeart:


It should just say "Unable to tip" if the recipient isn't using Garnet or doesn't have a Monero address on their profile

I think the word "zap" only makes sense with lightning. For now it's just a Monero "tip". Maybe the community can come up with something better.


I don't have much familiarity with start9 so don't take my word for it but I'm 99% sure you can


Appreciate whichever anon out there sent me a fat Monero tip with the based reference 🗽❤ 🔥


One you can't verify in a simple way (relies on cryptographic assumptions and correct implementation)

The other you can, but in practice almost no one does

An advantage one never takes advantage of doesn't seem like much of an advantage, but thats just me I guess


By running a Monero node and typing in a command just like any Bitcoiner would do

A hidden inflation bug is potentially harder to suss out on Monero. But it gains the advantage of privacy and fungibility. I guess it depends what you think is more important for digital cash (nothing stops us from using both for different situations).

Technically it is true it is not verifiable in a simple manner, but in practice there is no difference in my opinion. Virtually no Bitcoiner manually makes sure every single input/output on-chain of literally over a billion+ transactions cancel out (and indefinitely every ten minutes on top of that).

They just run a node (if even that)


What a great problem to have. Monero is used so much that it is hitting 4 GB blocks 😂

Don't think we'll see that anytime soon if ever...


-(See my previous post about scarcity below)
-# of nodes are comparable to Bitcoin nodes
-you can't directly compare hash like that. two totally different PoW algos
-lightning network enabled with next major upgrade FCMP++
-Has 3rd largest dev ecosystem right behind BTC and ETH

nevent1qqsrukgp6lc0grxn73s7syjqvghryg8quhrjrfaafc5g2yzzlk3uw5gp4xn0f
https://monero.fail/map
https://bitnodes.io/


Do you really believe Bitcoin can scale toward global adoption right now when it's well known that not even lightning can do this? With a large enough and sustained spike in adoption Bitcoin would break just as easily (practically unusable due to fees and confirmation times, and increased centralization because if the average user can't afford to use the network why in the hell would they run a node?). We see this literally every time there is a modest increase in use. Even lightning breaks when mempool is congested.

Bitcoin hasn't avoided future centralization issues yet either.

If Bitcoin in it's much larger usage and popularity has time to figure it out then so does Monero

https://image.nostr.build/9f76e4c0f830601c97c152d2b5336ab3a18630c758d0a4ae48b454c08199af30.jpg


It's a fallacy that absolute scarcity alone automatically = more valuable

You can fix the supply, but you can't control demand. Ultimately value is subjective like any good bitcoin maxi austrian should know. And demand can change at any time.

On-chain Bitcoin has some anonymity if done correctly, but can never have privacy. Big difference between the two. It's a transparent public ledger.

https://github.com/libbitcoin/libbitcoin-system/wiki/Scarcity-Fallacy


Nice

I believe it's using Monerujo for it's built-in wallet 🔥


Testing Garnet https://github.com/retrnull/garnet


Correct, but obviously use it with small amounts since it is new. Transfer to your real Monero wallet every once in awhile.

Alternatively, if you don't want to use the built-in wallet or your balance is too low, looks like there will soon be a prompt asking if you want to open a different Monero wallet on your phone when tipping to auto-fill the address and tip amount on your other wallets sending screen (Like what happens for zaps if your don't have a lightning wallet set up, but have a separate lightning wallet on your phone)


Na I rather you guys bring up all this to hash it out and we can think about it. You're right to err on the side of caution. There can definitely be problems with identifying the true spender in ring signatures if tx info is made public, but that is separate from stealth addresses. There is supposed to be a new bounty for hiding this info from relays.

Simply put stealth addresses make it so the public address you see (i.e. the XMR address on my profile) is not visible on-chain (it's encrypted).

Try searching my address on any Monero blockchain explorer. You won't find it:

89spcfRbp8EZZF2Qf9qJNSBjbx7fJAdJcEf64GBP1Vgg8yNrKHVLtJXLt4jWr3hcYeYUePpKfg5MkNYsjNc9sx3m3ymcMt4

https://www.p2pool.io/explorer/


Very new. Buggy and all that. Not even officially out yet. Don't use large amounts:

https://github.com/retrnull/garnet


For sure be cautious. It's very new, but I don't see how address reuse is a problem with Monero? Isn't that the point of Moneros stealth addresses?

On top of that tipping happens outside of the Nostr network by default so relays are oblivious to it afaik. The built-in Monero wallet is presumably separate from your "real" Monero wallet too (or at least can be).


It's not my project so I have no control where retnull put it. Not ideal and annoying, but it's not hard to create a throw away github account with a burner email.

I like your idea better though and seems preferable for many reasons


Please open up any issues on the github page if you notice any bugs and maybe even contribute if you have the skills. I think there is only one person working on it atm (retrnull). Even bringing attention to it in general helps.


:RedHeart:


Odd. I have an XMR address in my bio so the app should still be able to tip. It's very new not even officially released. Bounty hasn't even been completed yet, so it will probably be buggy for awhile.


Garnet supports both lightning zaps and Monero tips


Agree 😂


monero


They're building a nostr client on a closed source cucked spyware OS. We can safely disregard anything they do.


"Monero is a very good privacy complement to Bitcoin" -Nick Szabo

"Maybe you need a Monero" -Michael Saylor

"For really strong privacy, Monero is much better" -Andreas Antonopoulos

"There's a lot of advantages to using Monero" -Matt Odell

"Monero is the only goddamn currency that's used!" -John McAfee

"All fiat systems and all tokens outside of Bitcoin and monero (to my knowledge) have middlemen you cannot get rid of" -Adam Curry

"I would say Monero is not a shitcoin. I think it's a very innovative and new research project that works." -Max Hillbrand

"Monero; Just use it. Objectively it's better than Bitcoin [for privacy]...it's obvious" -Amir Taaki

"Monero is closer to our hearts than whatever Bitcoin is turning into today" -Samourai Wallet

"99% of cryptocurrencies are complete and total garbage, but even among the upper echeleon of real ones, Monero is in the top percentile, so it deserves our respect" -Paul Sztorc

"Surprising number of Monero lovers on #Nostr. It’s the only altcoin that I consider has a community of actual cypherpunks with similarly aligned values as bitcoin." -Guy Swann

"Monero has always been the altcoin outlier for me, never a shitcoin because I have a valid use for it that I can't achieve with #bitcoin." -Peter McCormack

"I have an issue when Bitcoiners get so closed-minded and says Moneros a shitcoin. No it's not. There's some brilliant people there and there's a lot to learn...I'm a fan of Monero." -Nicholas Gregory of Mercury Layer

"Cashu isn't an alternative to Monero. Monero is cool." -Calle


As long as the military industrial complex stays in place and KYC stays in place bitcoin could easily become an authoritarian nightmare.

If you think that's not accurate please elaborate.

I am working through my thought process here.


Whats opinion of this community about monero? #asknostr


Monero.
This is monero.

nostr:nevent1qqspw8qs6mpt4mdu56edke5fm8rsfdyqzrrudg8rqhp6ec8lvx7snrcpzamhxue69uhhyetvv9ujumn0wd68ytnzv9hxgtczyzwsvhuycr960v80sm6a9524um8qz9u23ge7r98enxdhf9a3kgspkqcyqqqqqqgrka34p


Monero didn't forget.

nostr:nevent1qqspn3gv58jamkme964rn4ce9a0le02yjl0x94g0l6j4kv3ecfqx82cppemhxue69uhkummn9ekx7mp0qgsxt9ksq8wfac9wnwffqlwfqp2xyzvy5gsn3x5farkdgesggns7tmgrqsqqqqqp0dj4hk


Bitcoin maxis: Create your own Nostr client if you want Monero tipping

*makes Nostr clients that supports Monero tipping*

Bitcoin maxis: BRO YOURE JUST TRYING TO MAKE YOUR SHITCOIN RELEVANT SCAMMERS!!! STOP IT!!! REEEEEEEEEE!!!


https://anarkio.codeberg.page/nostril/#/home/

https://bounties.monero.social/posts/94/42-349m-nostr-client-for-monero

https://github.com/retrnull/garnet


Long term, we need private money or it just gets traced / taxed / seized by the state anyway.

But truly private money makes for a bad store of value. You can’t audit the ledger, so a bug could create unlimited inflation that would be hard to detect.

So privacy is how you move money, not necessarily store it.


Haveno Reto website is up 🔥

https://haveno-reto.com/


Useful discussion in Monero world!
Seems now that there's little if any #privacy in #Bitcoin again,  #XMR might make a resurgence.🤔

#Monero Talk: Danny Akston, Paul Puey, Sterlin Luján and Douglas Tuman live at #Porcfest 2024 | EPI 317

Episode webpage: https://www.monerotalk.live/monerotalk-317

Media file: https://aphid.fireside.fm/d/1437767933/9813d709-5a6d-4a87-8b5e-46ebf14f99d6/a2254bf5-bee9-4c38-96ba-98878415c073.mp3

#gangsterment #podcast #liberty


Some notes on this:

Every morning I get up and work for bitcoin, but this is a a bit more literal... 😜 As many of you know I build and sell signers as a way to get them into more people's hands, and to support my individual work on our project. The revenue from the signers and other things I sell in my online shop (https://btc-hardware-solutions.square.site; Entropia, Go Kits, SeedKeepers, etc.) is how I'm able to cover expenses related to the project, and to travel to conferences and meetups where I can share information on SeedSigner and what I've learned during my personal bitcoin journey relative to cold storage, given my unique background. Here and there I'm also able to help cover some of our family's expenses.

When we recently transitioned to a new approach to user donations at https://donate.seedsigner.com I intentionally withdrew myself as a donation recipient. I wanted our most active technical contributors to be the ones benefitting from donations, directly receiving periodic digital monetary expressions of gratitude over time as the project grows and reaches more and more bitcoiners. (As a side note -- if you're a user or otherwise receiving value from our project, I'd encourage you to send some sats their way via the above URL.)

As for myself, I've always offered to sell signers p2p for bitcoin via DMs / email, but for a long time I've been wanting to level up in that regard. Over the last weeks I've finally gotten a proper LN node set up, where I also run nostr:npub155m2k8ml8sqn8w4dhh689vdv0t2twa8dgvkpnzfggxf4wfughjsq2cdcvg and a modest (for now) web presence. I need to express a lot of gratitude to nostr:npub1l5pxvjzhw77h86tu0sml2gxg8jpwxch7fsj6d05n7vuqpq75v34syk4q0n, nostr:npub1r7psmkr4zv93xnal8un6d8hvmpsn5jvhfzn3kk38rfcel6awznks7znspg and nostr:npub126ntw5mnermmj0znhjhgdk8lh2af72sm8qfzq48umdlnhaj9kuns3le9ll for their help as I've worked to become more of a 1st class bitcoin citizen.

With planned trips to Nashville, Atlanta, and Amsterdam to represent the project on the horizon, I'm looking to stack some sats that will help me continue to spread the SeedSigner gospel of a more trustless, more self-reliant approach to saving with bitcoin. So I've set up this small online store where I'll be selling some of the items from my Square shop for sats. I'm starting with milled aluminum signers (kudos to nostr:npub1l2xfcjd8k5l3c6mkpd95uptdnxcqw5yms0pz57l7v46qzgdju0msy96ndl for his continued amazing work on these enclosures) and I'm offering a small discount and free protective case for paying with bitcoin.

If you've been looking for the right opportunity to upgrade your SeedSigner experience, or if you've been waiting for a decent deal on one, please consider supporting my work in this way -- the URL is below.

Otherwise, a big thank you all for the kindness and support that so many bitcoiners have shown me over the last couple of years -- I hope to get to shake your hand at an event soon. 🧡🙏

https://btcpay.btchardwaresolutions.com https://image.nostr.build/4f864298c1b14dbf6057ca678d3dd5b077f66cdccf2ea78bab6a4d54126217b2.jpg


SeedSigner is no doubt the best FOSS DIY bitcoin project for a signing device (aka hardware wallet). Simply put, if you make habit of usage with this device, you'll learn first hand the interaction with bitcoin's timechain, that is, managing keys, generating wallets, and most importantly, recovering funds in case of emergencies.

Takes less than 100 bucks to gather the pieces; can set a good weekend to build, try, and even show it to others and take of note what they think.

nostr:nevent1qvzqqqqqqypzpukfdjtlvsv62w8cfnel5uhzr9rqtcvysztwdeghpn89kanen4qqqy88wumn8ghj7mn0wvhxcmmv9uq32amnwvaz7tmjv4kxz7fwv3sk6atn9e5k7tcqyrt05ysq6erhzdk4ktqk6aknqg4sflpxmr8jxygsfczvxcp3fkx9qaw0uft


A few problems.

Nothing is forcing them to use Bitcoin for their shady deeds or use it at all.
And if they do use Bitcoin, they can use the same current and future privacy tools/layers that any Bitcoin user can.
And if they do use Bitcoin without doing that, so what? They freely admit sending billions of our money to foreign countries right now. No one cares or does anything about it anyway.
Proof of assets means little if you don't have proof of liabilities.

https://github.com/libbitcoin/libbitcoin-system/wiki/Auditability-Fallacy


funny how almost every narrative bitcoiners tell and claim to be unique can be also applied to monero.

monero had an anonymous founder, no pre-mine and has proof-of-work.

i wonder why NGOs like #HRF are so bitcoin-centrical. sunk cost fallacy?


I unlocked Pro account on venice.ai using the Morph token (yes, shitcoinery, very utilitarian, just save money, no gambling)! Just keep a MOR token in your Ethereum (Arbitrum) wallet for unlimited uncensored content creation, including images, text, and code.

🚀 How to get started:

- Create a new MetaMask account for privacy.
- Set aside around $30.
- Purchase Ethereum on the Arbitrum network via platforms like SideShift or Trocador, paying with Lightning, L-BTC, Monero, etc.

- Convert ETH to MOR aiming for 1 MOR token.
Complete the swap.
Link: https://app.uniswap.org/explore/pools/arbitrum/0xE5Cf22EE4988d54141B77050967E1052Bd9c7F7A?chain=arbitrum

- Navigate to your account settings, connect your web3 wallet, and sign the transaction (tip: use an account based on email address to use it from devices that don't have Metamask. At this point, you can uninstall metamask wallet and forget about having it).

Log out and back in to activate your Pro account—no monthly fees, just hold the token. It’s cheaper than an annual subscription!

🌍 Enjoy limitless, uncensored access with a one-time setup! You can turn of "safe Venice" and remove image watermarks.

Yes, not very user friendly, your other option is to pay $49/year.

https://image.nostr.build/2e152e6d640fec93aa7abd1953c766cdfd0e6ef9ceba355129d6d592136a232d.png


Bitcoin Magazine and a large part of the Bitcoin community have completely lost the plot: praising Saylor, LARPing instead of using bitcoin, inviting Donald Trump to the Nashville conference... From wanting to get rid of central banks to bending the knee to cantillionaires. Sad!


Exactly.

And even if they did support it...why would they allow us peons the same privileges?

You can bet that shit would be under heavy regulations to the general populace.
Only allowed to use it legally with "approved custodians", blacklists, fully surveilled, and taxed to hell.


#monero

this was the message.

thanks for your attention.


Yes, and well over 51% of Bitcoins hash is KYCed and mostly done through large centralized mining operations like Foundry and AntPool. No problem there.

Most of Moneros devs are anonymous and the creator of its protocol is anonymous too. This is simple to look up. Why are you blatantly lying?


"...but it's important to note that Bitcoin's protocol is designed to adapt and evolve...Bitcoin can undergo updates"
Tell that to the ossificationists and all those opposed to upgrading lmao

"...not complicated and with centralized decisions like Monero and Ethereum that are so much easier to destroy with quantum computers"
Number of Monero node runners is in the same ballpark as Bitcoin nodes. The code is also FOSS and network is permissionless.
Monero pedersen commitment scheme for amount privacy are "perfectly hiding" so can't be "destroyed" even with quantum computers.
You're spewing things that you obviously know nothing about.

"..like Bitcoin Cash (Where they tried to apply more size to the Blocks..."
Almost no one is going to run a node for a network that will be too expensive for them to use in the first place...
Microblocks are just as centralizing and stupid as gigablocks

The previous commenter is right to not underestimate the "leviathan".
Some bitcoiners are way too dismissive and content. Fair skies, sunshine, and rainbows...
Bitcoin is supposed to be anti-fragile designed around worst case scenarios and thinking adversarially. It's value prop rests on that. Not assuming the best conditions.

https://docs.grin.mw/wiki/miscellaneous/switch-commitments/#properties-of-commitment-schemes
https://monero.fail/map
https://bitnodes.io/
https://image.nostr.build/f3d4dc2a45d469b1ba3c7f7dad2ec4fb47303d7f53cae9e671f774c31d2ea379.jpg


"absolute scarcity automatically equals value" is a fallacy

Value is subjective. Value is a function of supply AND demand. You can't control demand. Any good btc maxi that is obsessed with austrian econ should know this 101 fact but surprisingly few do.

That should be plenty to at least ponder that you might be wrong.

https://github.com/libbitcoin/libbitcoin-system/wiki/Scarcity-Fallacy


"Bitcoin’s unique transaction history ensures transparency and verifiability. Monero’s complete opacity aligns it more with an NFT’s non-fungibility due to its non-transparent nature..."

Do you even understand what fungibility means? Because you've got it completely in reverse...
fungibility = uniformity. Bitcoin has *unique* histories (each is distinguishable from another). Each coin has a unique history BECAUSE of it's *transparency*

"Privacy is important, but Bitcoin’s goal is to be a secure, decentralized store of value..."

Show me where it says "store of value" in the white paper. Pseudonymity (weaker version of anonymity) is not the same thing as privacy. One is hiding identity, the other hides content/actions.

"The point about shaking hands with politicians is about potential compromise, because no one knows who Satoshi is, but they know who the creator of Monero is..."

No they don't. Who is Nicolas Von Saberhagen? If you don't know who Satoshi is how do you know they aren't the same person?

"Bitcoin is not perfect, but it is perfect money. It solves preservation of value, and the guarantee is inflationary ..."
"PoW doesn’t matter if the reward system and inflation model are flawed..."

Lol. I guess you still don't understand that "absolute scarcity automatically equals value" is a fallacy because you can't control demand. And you should know by now that value is subjective if you understand money like you claim.

"Not your keys, not your money. If you leave Bitcoin on exchanges..."

You can have your Bitcoin taken even if you own your own keys. $5 wrench attack. Gov can also send goons with guns to kick down your door and force you to give it up. Bitcoin doesn't automatically make it confiscation proof. It's hiding of information that does which is why privacy is so important.

Continuously stating I don't understand something doesn't make it so. Ever consider you might be the one that doesn't understand?

https://github.com/jlopp/physical-bitcoin-attacks/blob/master/README.md

https://image.nostr.build/1d76ce41f9e58aaa100484d22356101b72ffc9b70cf7984032af2e23d2d77a7f.jpg

https://image.nostr.build/3d7a8b836098ef9b09f31bf7510fe0ca0fa8859b5f8b263dceeb42dfb2a497c8.jpg

https://image.nostr.build/ccf181ed168942446d16535fa01942fcb9f471b7b689c9d9f8d12839df0b629c.jpg

note12acrktner7qftvhwnrnsgket3cgywk8dkrkmyfaq6rrlts2vfh5s33l9gh


If you have a slight interest in privacy and/or monero listen to nostr:nprofile1qqs936kc97s4k4gqjnmltljgqns0uadh08d77t5mypg3anxkneks37gpzemhxue69uhhsmtj9e6hxetwdaehgu3wdaexwqg4waehxw309ahx7um5wgh8smtj9eex7cmtwvq3kamnwvaz7tmwdaehgu3wwphhyar9d4hkuetjduhxxmmdhdhm8r on this episode🔥

https://watchmanprivacy.com/2024/07/08/111-monero-next-steps-seth-for-privacy/


#nostr #monero is so busy at so many places. #xmr https://image.nostr.build/021882299271736cf135be6341f67c89cc2127e282004a11663a362bafe38203.jpg


Stuck In The Middle | The Confab 04: Seth For Privacy

Welcome to the The Confab, the term derives from "confidential talk", which was commonly used in the Prohibition Era for meetings and conversations that took place in the smoky, rule-breaking speakeasies of that time. The informal, privacy focused and clandestine nature of Ungovernable Misfits lends itself to these discussions.  So, grab a seat and a stiff drink from the concealed bar, listen and revel in the conversation.On this episode, Seth For Privacy drops-in to speak with Max Show Discussion I. Introduction and Background   - Explanation of the "Confab" format and the importance of private conversations   - Acknowledgment of the changing privacy landscape and the need for reasonable voicesII. The State of Bitcoin Privacy   - Discussion of the loss of Samourai Wallet and the impact on Bitcoin privacy   - Challenges with using Lightning Network for private transactionsIII. The Role of Monero   - Appreciation for Monero's narrow focus on digital cash and its privacy improvements over time   - Comparing the strengths and weaknesses of Bitcoin and Monero for privacyIV. Strategies for Maintaining Privacy   - Exploring the concept of using Monero as a "layer 2" for Bitcoin   - Importance of understanding the trade-offs and risks of various privacy techniquesV. Emerging Privacy Solutions   - Overview of silent payments and the potential of Bolt 12 for Lightning privacy   - Discussion of Monero's upcoming "full chain membership proofs" upgradeVI. Practical Considerations and Cautions   - Advice on using Monero wallets and managing inputs/outputs   - Warnings about the risks of cross-chain swaps and custodial servicesVII. Spending Monero and Finding Merchant Acceptance   - Recommendations for services like Cake Pay and Coin Cards   - Importance of in-person purchases to maintain privacyVIII. Conclusion and Closing Thoughts   - Appreciation for the guest's honesty and nuanced approach to privacy   - Encouragement to continue the conversation and collaborate on solutionsIMPORTANT LINKS https://freesamourai.com

https://op3.dev/e/serve.podhome.fm/episode/df3c7f87-bdab-41fe-1438-08dbf068e250/6385599322757562996043b579-d51c-4f2d-9ddb-f751c414f39cv6.mp3

https://serve.podhome.fm/episodepage/bit-buy-bit/stuck-in-the-middle-the-confab-04-seth-for-privacy


I would love to see you explain how Monero is closer to an NFT than Bitcoin when every Bitcoin has a unique transaction history and Monero doesn't. Bitcoin is the original non-fungible token.

Literally all cypherpunk history disagrees with your dismissal of privacy including Hal Finney.
By putting privacy on the backburner you're less of a digital cash. Not only are you further away from ideal money (by diminishing fungibility i.e. indistinguishable coins), you are also less resistant to adversaries. You open up the possibility of targeted mining censorship and chain analysis on users both which wouldn't be possible if Bitcoin was private.

Moneros original creator is a nym just like Satoshi. It's FOSS and permissionless. So no idea what you are trying to suggest with the "shakes hands with a politician" comment

I never said gold or Monero was perfect. I just see them as tools with different trade offs. You're the only one here calling Bitcoin perfect. Which it is far from being.
Monero and gold supply issuance is predictable, decentralized, and requires PoW just like Bitcoin.

Absolute scarcity doesn't automatically guarantee anything. You have to be honest and contrast it with the full picture of downsides involved with Bitcoin. Merely having absolute scarcity doesn't guarantee value or continued value. You can control supply. You can't control fickle demand (subjective value). Both are required.

Yes, you can't confiscate Bitcoin! Except all those times it has been confiscated of course...and many instances aided by... *drum roll* ...it's lack of privacy!

https://image.nostr.build/7fba44b177478e68db7a4282cd4822212bdc437e6cc62992b34713b7d020af84.jpg
https://github.com/libbitcoin/libbitcoin-system/wiki/Scarcity-Fallacy
https://www.torekeland.com/roman-sterlingov/
https://image.nostr.build/00ad7daa2b61e39116fdeb5c2aaef95eefb1ae8d7783e0a19a7740300f7a9a23.png
https://image.nostr.build/10d636c53a224ce2012b241deb4971ecc34789b5a7f324acecdea4ae29eb401f.jpg
https://image.nostr.build/3616391671bdcd43edc488b9c5e93f3a838ba032d137007e727bfda568debcbe.png


Lol

You said you don't understand the hype around Monero, so I explained all the problems with the "privacy layers" you listed off (which you didn't contest)

Nothing more, nothing less

But if you want we can go in circles and theorize about "perfect money" and go off-topic if you want...
I don't think a non-fungible money would qualify as "perfect" (I'm not claiming Monero is perfect, but you are claiming Bitcoin is)

Gold was civilizations money for several millennia and has more in common with Monero than Bitcoin (private, fungible, small amount of inflation, opaque circulating supply). People still prefer gold over Bitcoin.
Lightning can't even scale right now without 100+ MB blocks...on-chain Bitcoin doesn't stand a chance. If Bitcoin has time to figure it out, with it's higher popularity, then so does Monero.

Monero isn't just "scrambled". Amounts and addresses are completely hidden. Search the address on my profile on any Monero blockchain explorer and let me know any amounts or addresses for transactions I've ever made. Meanwhile Wallet of Satoshi knows everything about your transaction history and can rug you at any moment. The entire world can see your on-chain Bitcoin transactions no matter how many times you coinjoin. But no third party has access to my Monero transaction history.

Good luck with your expensive NFT surveillance chain and targeted miner censorship


Easy way: Buy another easily accessible crypto like Litecoin and swap to Monero using something like trocador.app

Somewhat more inconvenient, but no need to sell your soul and first born to a centralized exchange: Buy with bank transfer, Paypal, or other payment methods directly from other users using Haveno Reto
https://github.com/retoaccess1/haveno-reto/releases


Theory VS practice. Almost no one uses lightning privately. Wallet of Satoshi gives you no privacy.

How to be moderately private with Lightning:

1. never receive
2. don't announce channels
3. open channels with coins you mixed beforehand
4. open channels directly with only people you trust
5. use Tor to hide your IP from other nodes
6. use your own LN node

Liquid doesn't hide sender or receiver and anon set is virtually zero

Ecash is custodial

Coinjoins are weaker obfuscation. They don't actually hide amounts and addresses involved like Monero does.


https://monerica.com/

https://moneromarket.io/

https://xmrbazaar.com/

https://monezon.com/

https://anonshop.app/

https://coincards.com

Scroll down to ⭐"WHERE CAN I SPEND MONERO?" for more:

https://pb.envs.net/?8c6e45d76a233681#GRCjqnVXPVMqzbZB9xjMAMTaMCrNGNRF5pYCKojtffjm


Make sure to use a XMPP client that supports OMEMO* = double ratchet encryption

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OMEMO


Still new, but Haveno Reto. Personally made a few successful transactions already.

https://github.com/retoaccess1/haveno-reto/releases


On a technical level Dash doesn't offer privacy on any level that Monero does. And if you don't really know much about the tech, just look at what currency is being used on Darknets where these things are critical. I don't think any accept Dash (at least no major ones I know of). It's Monero and Bitcoin with Bitcoin only still there because it was "grandfathered in", and has the most liquidity, and slowly being replaced by Monero everywhere.


MONERO PAYMENTS FIXED ✅ https://image.nostr.build/7a9b105f32f86844ceb5c2c4158dc405a2c5272b28f953a89763d18f81ae31e9.jpg


The more I read up on monero, the more I love it.


Not an eCash FUDster here but i'll still answer

Agree with the first thing. It's without a doubt an improvement on custodial lightning.

For the last part...either it's simply not possible or there is another layer/technology/schema/protocol that can accomplish it or come close (requires unilateral exit)

But whether we can or can't scale Bitcoin is separate from the fact that scaling IOUs is not scaling Bitcoin no matter how useful that can be.


Ecash is cool if you respect the risks, but just because you don't care about small amounts (others might care + small amounts for you might be a lot for someone else in the world + others could have more than small amounts on it + many small amounts still equals a lot of Bitcoin to temp the mint) doesn't remove the potential for mints to fractionally reserve.

All that requires is printing/lending out more ecash than Bitcoin that is backing it.


Smaller dark pool >>> Larger transparent pool

Amounts and addresses aren't visible on Moneros blockchain at all

Try searching mine on any Monero blockchain explorer:
89spcfRbp8EZZF2Qf9qJNSBjbx7fJAdJcEf64GBP1Vgg8yNrKHVLtJXLt4jWr3hcYeYUePpKfg5MkNYsjNc9sx3m3ymcMt4


I'm a Monero and Cashu user 🙋♂

Each have cool properties that the other doesn't


Cashu isn't an alternative to Monero. Monero is cool.

Those who want custodial privacy can check out Cashu.


defunct

here is the continuation

https://ccs.getmonero.org/proposals/%20MoneroSignerResurrection.html


I've always had similar concerns...


You're saying regulations and identities tied to miners aren't a security problem for Bitcoin when it's over 51% of hashrate?...

Explain why white market transactions on exchanges matter for permissionless money? One excludes the other. Black markets are the only place where you can make permissionless transactions. Every single Bitcoin transaction on the white market is permissioned so defeats the entire value prop of Bitcoin. If you're going to follow the rules for a transaction you might as well use fiat.

Meanwhile Monero is eating Bitcoins lunch in the only place where permissionless transactions exist


Dude over 51% of your mining pools require KYC. That's not a security problem lol?

Miners also have the potential to perform targeted transaction censorship on Bitcoin which isn't possible on Monero.


Every PoW crypto has completely different algos. Makes no sense to simply point to pure hashrate and say that is what makes Bitcoin more secure.


Decreasing price is due to everyone being scared of that specific thing happening? Where in the world did you pull this one from

What a jump


Except that data is all from Bitcoin moving around on centralized ledgers AKA centralized exchanges, so no, not really a difference at all


Xmr + nostr = big bounty


New Stack Duo release (v1.2.0):

• We've added Tor support for Monero and Bitcoin (including .onion addresses)
• We've added RBF and CPfP for Bitcoin

If you're a Bitcoin maxi and don't want to try Stack Wallet cuz it's full of shitcoins, try Duo - It's just XMR and BTC.

https://mastodon.stack.black/system/media_attachments/files/112/712/355/925/039/393/original/3c6812deea3a3e3f.jpg


Cool, didn't know that


Yea gift cards were always temporary stop gaps ...not a real long term solution.

Arguably all white market transactions are too


Do you know the ETA? 🤔

I've had this saved in my bookmarks since forever...


Há outro mercado que supostamente entrega encomendas por via aérea utilizando drones. Outro método útil para enviar e receber anonimamente.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Y1S80ZoZFY


Monero is the Esperanto word for "coin"


I think stables can be useful. If it's difficult to access USD where you're from and/or your local fiat is even more garbage. Or to avoid crypto volatility in short/medium term. Can also be more anonymous than digital fiat.


Say what you will, but it's indisputably easier for lazier/unskilled users and even skilled users to stay private with Monero than Bitcoin. It is better in that sense and in the sense that it is actually private (not merely obfuscation).

White markets aren't free markets. They're permissioned. So whenever you flash centralized ledger gambling/speculation price charts it is entirely irrelevant for Bitcoins value prop and security architecture.

Yes, paper cash is great privacy, but is irrelevant since we're talking about digital currencies. I can't send or receive physical cash digitally.

You're accusing me of "marrying my coins" as if you aren't just as married to yours. Pot meet kettle.

Yea and that same drug and firearm comment is what they're going to use against any self-custodial coinjoining Bitcoiners. No difference in rhetoric if it is still a real threat to them. If they're not saying that anymore you should be wondering why.


Make Bitcoin cypherpunk again!

Being in bed with Wall Street & becoming compliant barely brought the price above what the free market accomplished 3 years ago.

Rich people don’t need another store of value. But billions of people need something to make unstoppable & untraceable payments.


Major cuck energy from this one

You know cops can get you for just about anything right? People have the right to not incriminate themselves by preventing cops from going through their phones.

20,000+ pages of new laws every year. You read and follow them all? You're a criminal too and just don't realize it yet. Welcome to the club.


Ok, well I was just being clear that KYC and forward privacy are two different things because it read like you were conflating them. And again, almost no users obfuscate their Bitcoin.

Doesn't matter how massive the data is. We have computers now. All of that history is "flattened" and can easily be parsed by chain analysis companies especially when they have access to data sets from large exchanges and government bodies.

I don't know if you're being funny about the "illegal drugs, firearms, sex trafficking, prostitution" part. Because that's exactly what they accused Bitcoin of in the past and will also accuse self-custodial Bitcoin users of in the future too. Except in that case it's easier to prove what it was used for and tie to someone (correctly and incorrectly i.e. Roman Sterlingov).

Now you're drifting into hypotheticals about auditability and scalability that have nothing to do with the original topic; privacy.


Brian the type of guy that praises Bitcoins decentralized ledger, but always shows you a centralized ledger price chart

Brian the type of guy that talks about Bitcoin being permissionless, but then shows you permissioned white market transactions

Brian the type of guy that speaks about privacy, but still uses a transparent ledger


I 100% agree with your first sentence.

My point is vast majority of Bitcoins adoption and "rails" stem from the white market. My point is none of that matters for it's value prop since those transactions are all permissioned.

Monero on the other hand is systematically being banned from every  white market exchange and further cementing itself in the only real permissionless  and free markets (Black markets).

Almost no users will do those last things you mentioned which will affect your crowd to hide in, and those things don't magically make Bitcoin private. It's still a transparent ledger and you're still leaking on chain data that can be used to unmask you.

You can't make "no-KYC" into "non-KYC" by swapping. That central record of how much crypto you bought will always exists. You should always be buying no-KYC if you care about that.


:shakingeyes:


All white market transactions are irrelevant when it comes to permissionless money because they are all permissioned.

Regulators can set any arbitrary rule on Bitcoin transactions there, up to, and including, banning them.

Black markets (AKA actual free markets), which darknets are a subset of, are the only real metric for Bitcoins value prop (permissionless transactions)

Bitcoin was the first mover and had the largest network effect on DNMs. That Monero is single-handedly taking over, despite that huge advantage, should tell you something.


Yes, Bitcoin has more transactions, I'm not disputing that, but how many of those transactions can you count? Your crowd to hide in isn't all Bitcoin transactions. It isn't even most. It's not that large once you rule out all known entities (whether KYC'd, which is probably most logically if most people use CEXs, or pseudos that don't coinjoin).

Lopp did a rough estimate not too long ago and something like ~0.001% of transactions were coinjoins. Even if you think he is a magnitude or several off that is still almost nothing.

Doesn't matter if a small few are keeping good practices if you can rule them out from the vast majority of others that are not. They are all KYC'd or pseudonymous entities that can even be potentially unmasked with enough on and off chain data (timing, amounts, addresses they interact with, IPs, etc).


I'm sure something will be figured out to further reduce the risks of both, but I don't think these fundamental risks will ever be completely eliminated imo


You can use their LSP if you choose "quick start" and still have a lot more privacy versus other lightning wallets. Idk how long ago you used it but they've added and changed a lot over time.


Catch 22

Anon mint runners = greater risk of rugpull on users
Known mint runners = greater risk of regulators on mint runners (recent events i.e. Samourai, Phoenix, Wasabi, etc)


Cypherstack has published its FCMP report.

https://github.com/cypherstack/fcmp-review/releases/tag/final

#Monero


Many reasons...

Almost no one uses Zcash let alone shielded (doesn't exist on the darkweb either)
Zcash isnt "battle-tested" (outcome of point above)
Zcash is transitioning into Proof-of-Stake
Zcash is not technically fully open source
Vulnerable centralized corporation  (Electric Coin Company)
20% dev tax on mining (Founders Reward)
Computationally expensive (Slow performance for shielded txs)
Not fungible (Same problem as Bitcoin, distinction between shielded vs unshielded)
Fixed supply (Same potential future security problem as Bitcoin)
IP addresses isn't hidden by default from other nodes on the network (No Dandelion)
Zcash community in general and in my experience is way more receptive to being compliant and changing things for regulators

That being said, their researchers have contributed a lot to privacy tech, and I'm not opposed to using z-2-z if you can find anyone who accepts it or pays with it. But goodluck with that. Let me know if you find anyone because I can't.

Biased take below, I know, but still much of it is true:
https://moneroinfodump.neocities.org/#ZcashBlackpill


Running a monero node with start9 and connecting GUI wallet over Tor🔥


I knew I shouldve jumped on it. It's gone now 😅


For what Raspis are going for now, it's just worth way more bang for buck to buy a used laptop Thinkpad or used mini business desktop like a ThinkCentre or Optiplex. Saw one the other day for $60 with 16gb ram, i5, and 1 TB SSD. You can typically find them sub $100


Love me some good ZeroHedge.

Cash is king in many, MANY places.  Monero will replace it though, not your shitcoin

nostr:nevent1qvzqqqqqqypzq9jg2uep57cwwsp7prcma7qfv7k2jwzlhhsykuw69ezqzzpr634dqy88wumn8ghj7mn0wvhxcmmv9uq32amnwvaz7tmjv4kxz7fwv3sk6atn9e5k7tcqyrrp7q0n4yw0528c9w7nxnde34wwhy309lwfp62rndkyfc8dr5g2yptv7sv


Monero is fast becoming the shining light for the free world.


#Bitcoin hot take:
Acknowledging Bitcoin's fundamental shortcomings, both at the base layer and with secondary layer solutions, along with Blockstream's undue influence over Bitcoin Core development doesn't make you a "bCaShEr" or an inauthentic Bitcoiner; it makes you a BETTER Bitcoiner, one that can recognize that Bitcoin isn't perfect while still wanting to improve upon and better it.

Admittedly there CAN be some overlap with people who are, or simply are aware of the value within other coins/currencies (I'm in the latter camp, with both Bitcoin Cash and privacy coins like Monero), but don't seek confirmation bias that presents this as ALWAYS being the case.

It never is.


I'll say this as nicely as I can: it's not easy to run a bitcoin node in the sense that it's not that much easier than many other popular blockchains.

From the moment you need:
* 1 TB of space
* >12 hours for IBD
* Stable fast reliable internet
* decent always-on computer (phone or raspi won't cut it)
...you can't claim it's "easy".

It's something only passionate people will ever do, that's why there's at best 50k nodes.

For this to change, we would need something like a lightweight node android app with optimizations such as ZeroSync and UTreeXO. It could even be integrated inside a wallet.


Yea, they really need to get background sync working correctly. Probably one of the biggest complaints.

Cake Wallet had it for awhile, and when it worked it was great, but too many bugs so they had to take it down for now...


Both are solid lightning wallets

They're both non-custodial, but Phoenix servers calculate routes for you (more detrimental privacy implications)

https://docs.zeusln.app/for-users/embedded-node/privacy

https://image.nostr.build/0760837df597b7347bc5ecce7b1b47fcf66ec023315d9728db3b19cd1e5be862.png


LN receiver privacy isn't so great and amount privacy isn't guaranteed from larger nodes.

What is worse, is because of it's increased complexity, a disproportionate number of LN users are using custodians or LSPs from which they have no privacy (just look at Nostr zaps or custodial ln wallet downloads vs non-custodial). That's where ecash can help a lot.

But ecash isnt perfect either. There are still things you have to be mindful about. Larger denominations of tokens gives you reduced or possibly even no anon set (because less users are likely to have those higher denominations for you to blend in with), making lightning payments out of the mint still comes with all the caveats of lightning of course (bad receiver privacy/amounts sent out being known by the mint), and mints can associate tokens with IP addresses so having network level privacy from the mints is a must (Tor/VPN)


#Monero Node https://moneronodo.com


You guys are so insecure about the M-word it's hilarious 😂


If you don't want to use on chain Bitcoin or Monero...only other way is make a lightning payment to them out of an ecash mint? Or give them the ecash token directly


“Network relays are built on the modern and standardized MASQUE protocols and can be used to proxy all TCP and UDP traffic”

Holy shit! It’s not just web requests. This is way better than your standard VPN. It also obfuscates traffic through http so it’s harder to tell that you’re even using it. TIL nostr:npub1dd9znw7585wsam4d8p84ztdmtywwjsrayld6fzk4fvqdn5hpju4st5xe7p also uses this. This is the way we can make nostr network traffic private without requiring people to run VPNs.

https://support.apple.com/en-ca/guide/deployment/dep91a6e427d/web nostr:note12efx0sark9qhdnstu7ucacv399j60juz3ukjvzztvpzg2avtnr0qd5ceua


Privacy is hidden content/actions, anonymity is hidden identity

I think both are pretty important because missing privacy leaks data that can be used to unravel your anonymity/psuedonymity over time (what addresses you interact with, amounts, timing, etc)

It's harder than ever now since Samourai and Wasabi are out of the game. And it's impractical to coinjoin every transaction anyway especially as fees climb.

If you don't coinjoin every transaction, aside from third parties, your counter parties will be able to see balances and see past history + follow you going forward. I'm sure people most wouldn't be comfortable with that even if you know the person.


You don't take advantage of "amounts in the clear" to verify the billion+ txns anyway. No Bitcoiner does. You just run a node and pay no mind like any Monero user would.

I fail to see your advantage if you never do it in practice.

"Can, but doesn't" is essentially the same thing as "Can't"

It's larping


You got better things to do...that's why you're replying to anons on Nostr for the past few days but can't skim a brief introduction on commitments for a couple minutes. Suuuuure lol.

No one is upset. You didn't address anything else I said because you cant.

If you can't click a link that's your own willful ignorance. I really don't care if you do or don't.


Bitcoiners "The market is always right"

Also Bitcoiners "Yo the market isn't right"


Yea sure you would totally love Monero if it just wasn't for it's unlimited supply

Please 🙄


A Transparent public blockchain can never be private. Maybe you meant anonymously (pseudonymous really)? That's not the same thing and not practical to always do anyway


PSA: The functionality of multiple Fedimint federations is significantly degraded due to severe DNS issues.

It seems to be the case that some federation guardians have an XYZ domain that the DNS registrar has taken over. Freedom One and Bitcoin Principals appear to have one guardian offline due to this.

Unfortunately, despite the server and keys for these guardians being intact, there is no way for the DNS of a guardian to be swapped out after the fact. We became aware of this issue last week and then became aware that multiple federations are experiencing this: https://github.com/fedimint/fedimint/issues/5482/

Given the critical state of these federations, with one guardian out of four being permanently offline, it's essential that if you have funds in these federations, you should withdraw them immediately. Unfortunately, we're unaware of other public federations, so you must withdraw to another lightning or on-chain wallet.

From our experiences, intermittent/connectivity issues can occur with guardians, and this may result in errors if not all three remaining guardians are consistently online. No other guardian of these federations has XYZ or other domains like it. So, if you're having issues, please try again later.

Unfortunately, not much can be done on the Mutiny side, so we're removing the federation setup flow in the UI as a first step. Sorry for the inconvenience.


18,445,342

PoW mining just like Bitcoin


:peepoClap:


You can't revert without screwing over all the users who just gave away products/services for fake Bitcoin that would go poof. That happens to your blockchain even if it's transparent anyway.

Bitcoin is verifiable with "napkin math" but we both know you are never going to do that for billions of transactions.
You simply run a node like any Monero users would (If you are the tiny fraction that even runs a node) and "blindly trust"

For that "advantage" that almost no one takes advantage of (no pun intended) you lose fungibility, privacy, targeted-censorship resistance, etc. Cool.

Here you go. Should take all of five minutes for you to understand what pedersen commitments are and the math behind them. Can't dumb it down more than this and we're not going to spoonfeed you just because you're too lazy to learn high school level math.

https://docs.grin.mw/wiki/miscellaneous/switch-commitments/


You have no clue what you are talking about.

Everything Monero uses is based on proven and understood math and crypto from the 80s it's about as old as Bitcoins tech. Which funny enough you probably don't understand so are trusting too.


Today I created a nostr:nprofile1qqsdru78zcu6uwa6zlludjx7k87m8ft9q6e5jgsn6qe49rxzj9frwpqpz4mhxue69uhhyetvv9ujumt0wd68ytnsw43qzxthwden5te0wfjkccte9eeks6t5vehhycm99ehkuegprpmhxue69uhkummnw3ezucm0d9hxvatwvshxzursy4dly7 account, paid in #monero

It was so simple, no email, no names, no phone number, just a random number for the account. The same goes for the payment.

That's how I see the success of freedom tech ! A business system can work while preserving freedom and be completely anonymous. 👏🥸

#freedom #freedomtech #vpn #mullvad #mullvadvpn


Ahhhh I get you

I'm not a fan of Monero either 😉


Learnt about "dirty" bitcoins and hoe traceback works.

I mean, public ledger and all.
This is where Monero fucks

nostr:nevent1qqsg6k6k4s5ups37weus00j5favzq22l0c77lycggj9g3ckwl3x3elqprpmhxue69uhkummnw3ezuendwsh8w6t69e3xj730qgsq6l8v48sqpec3uf3mc99zy94twjtg485s86azzjn3gvq2mm095gqrqsqqqqqpj2cfr7


You did the meme

https://image.nostr.build/925fc32ffc80832582e53360f8b7cb4a766e0bd3bbfbfb3f6689180624f9b20d.png


Maxis will straight up accuse you of being in monero for fiat "value"
and at the same time suggest compromising on decentralization and custody are reasonable tradeoffs.

the lack of self-examination is astounding.

nostr:nevent1qqs20ku4krej67f8d6y4kuc7lp4plruhd2e84swjtj8krmlcgm6trxspr4mhxue69uhkummnw3ezucnfw33k76twv4ezuum0vd5kzmp0qgswex0dc4t8uq5pt7c4qgpgtch6swgfx88d7kwg844m930kac2npwgrqsqqqqqpspkckw


Cashu gang to follow:

-  nostr:npub1cj6ndx5akfazux7f0vjl4fyx9k0ulf682p437fe03a9ndwqjm0tqj886t6 Cashu OG
-  nostr:npub1kvaln6tm0re4d99q9e4ma788wpvnw0jzkz595cljtfgwhldd75xsj9tkzv Android wallet
-  nostr:npub1dx5q2el8nd4eh3eg9t2e25fd7zuqg7zxz6ldkc3uzgh66ss2yc6st288sj iOS and Android wallet
-  nostr:npub1pp355axf69z8ndrz8zdnqa54s90e5xy737mwqk9e9cvt606nwszsdx8nu7 eNuts dev
-  nostr:npub1qjgcmlpkeyl8mdkvp4s0xls4ytcux6my606tgfx9xttut907h0zs76lgjw CDK dev
-  nostr:npub185u4z6rjk0qawhqjexqz4vkhd86d29csz7nt3myhv3ahtcq2xxzqvnkvuy Moksha dev
-  nostr:npub1arcweuxy0zkdcg08sljh058qp02ytrgnpzh4csa3ar42szyfgrpsw6ggtw Cashu factory
-  nostr:npub1mhcr4j594hsrnen594d7700n2t03n8gdx83zhxzculk6sh9nhwlq7uc226 npub-cash dev
-  nostr:npub1current7ntwqmh2twlrtl2llequeks0zfh36v69x4d3wmckg427safsh3w USD ecash pioneers
-  nostr:npub1zqsu3ys4fragn2a5e3lgv69r4rwwhts2fserll402uzr3qeddxfsffcqrs ecash UX pioneer
-  nostr:npub1f742zec57c6qk9ajfr8wyjn0s4vrfzh4hesyj2yqplvj5wrfydxsjprpa3 Macadamia dev
-  nostr:npub1dgesr3zcgyjv2z0050h7auzdlf88gycry7tlk7wsypmgngy97yxqv4mccn secp wizard
-  nostr:npub1thunderat5g552cuy7umk624ct5xe4tpgwr2jcjjq2gc0567wgrqnya79l cashu-kotlin dev
-  nostr:npub1a8jh7az9z4etn6s9cms0zm7kpvualkpf8tfx50qrjng3zrl8tl4syde2jz testing and QA
-  nostr:npub1q6mcr8tlr3l4gus3sfnw6772s7zae6hqncmw5wj27ejud5wcxf7q0nx7d5 OG service dev
-  nostr:npub1mznweuxrjm423au6gjtlaxmhmjthvv69ru72t335ugyxtygkv3as8q6mak design
-  nostr:npub13pn45hvfxqy5vpyr03krapqvsjpj34n74u36qz9aynw4svg5ypqszxgctw community
-  nostr:npub1rach342hnt3wa0qfqk0pey0exs2drcxfc0azs8eurwnee9vu64vs834atg Cashu web magician


btw for the ecash lnurl stuff they'll still know incoming zap amounts...but won't know any future outgoing lightning payments were you (as long as you're behind a vpn/tor)

Still better privacy to transact with ecash tokens directly (opposed to sending/receiving lightning payments), but the way I decribed is still a lot better than how you're doing it right now with alby


You basically have zero privacy from alby or any custodial lightning provider for that matter.

They know all incoming and outgoing amounts + who you're sending to + your ip address.
And your lnurl is "sersleepy@getalby.com" so it wouldn't be too hard to figure out your nostr account if they dont already know 🤣
Even if you trust alby they can be forced to give up info against their will by authorities, or have their databases hacked, or accidentally leaked
Custodial lightning sucks so bad for privacy.

Solution: Use ecash and make lightning payments out of the mint (behind a tor or a good vpn to mask your ip) then youre pretty solid 👌

Minibits wallets gives you your own built-in lnurl, that you can also customize, that you can replace with the one you have here (people will zap u with lightning and it will convert to ecash tokens)
You can also do the same thing with: https://npub.cash


Bitcoin was man-made. You're free to use a hammer for whatever and however you want, but no one would contest that a hammer was designed by it's creators for a specific purpose that it excels in versus other tools. So when you're telling us that an important property of a hammer doesn't matter at all, despite all evidence to the contrary, you're just wrong.

https://image.nostr.build/7fba44b177478e68db7a4282cd4822212bdc437e6cc62992b34713b7d020af84.jpg


Too bad both privacy solutions you listed are custodial 😥 (and liquids anon set is non existent)

I'd like to at least have the option to have privacy without requiring me to be cucked


Consider posting this on Monero Market and XMR Bazaar

https://moneromarket.io/
https://xmrbazaar.com/


Got some Hot and Not Hot left.

https://barnjerky.hashrootsinc.io/

Can pay on chain, much Lightning, & XMR https://image.nostr.build/c681158729e352e5bb30f37cf2e2230f0cd0d30fd9e034cf3038e50e92b5a736.jpg


"DiosDelRayo completes first milestone for MoneroSigner CCS proposal" 🥳

https://repo.getmonero.org/monero-project/ccs-proposals/-/merge_requests/465#note_25012


Lol. Bitcoins ONLY value prop is black market. Permissionless transactions, dodging taxes (includes seigniorage), and avoiding financial surveillance (in theory). Regulators can impose any arbitrary restriction on white market Bitcoin up to, and including, banning transactions from there. If you're not doing any of this then there is literally no reason to use Bitcoin. Fiat is much better if you're going to follow the rules anyway.

https://github.com/libbitcoin/libbitcoin-system/wiki/Permissionless-Principle

You need a reminder on Bitcoins cypherpunk origins of digital cash:

note12acrktner7qftvhwnrnsgket3cgywk8dkrkmyfaq6rrlts2vfh5s33l9gh


Apparently you don't know what fiat means


Not sure how you could do that without revealing amounts to the 2nd mint because they'll know the amount they receive in lightning from the 1st mint (and know it's from the 1st mint since they're redeeming it's token), and the 1st mint will know the amount they're sending to the 2nd mint even if they're not colluding.

And it still wouldn't solve the reduced anon set from "larger bucket" ecash holders unless you spread funds around like you said or never send/receive larger payments.Still better anonymity and privacy than Bitcoin, but coming back to my original point...ecash doesn't necessarily have a larger group to hide in just because it is ecash.

I was kind of surprised the other day to find out that mints can tie IP addresses to specific tokens (maybe that should've been obvious), so I like what Mutiny is doing with Harbor running everything behind Tor


Matthew the type of guy to say the market is always right when referring to Bitcoin, but tell you why it's wrong when it comes to Monero DNM adoption

Matthew the type of guy to say Bitcoins decentralized ledger is universal truth, but then defers to it's central ledger exchange price charts and cex volume, ETF, wallstreet, and tradfi

Matthew the type of guy that talks about anonymity sets and hiding in large crowds, but then uses a transparent and pseudonymous blockchain

Matthew the type of guy that talks about Bitcoin being permissionless digital cash, but then brings up white market transactions

Matthew the type of guy that talks about robust global circular economies, but never spends his Bitcoin

Matthew the type of guy that talks about hot potato money and bleeding value, but then doesn't say a word when Bitcoin price drops 70%


imagine trying to onboard your grandma to sovereign lightning

#nobodygottimeforthat


Ecash and Monero are not in competition. They're solving two different problems. Ecash is making intermediary systems better. Monero is focused on the original goal of getting rid of them altogether.

The only place they overlap is privacy.


Tokens are unique to each mint. Every time you leave a mint over lightning you reveal amount + destination to the original mint (a potential point of de-anonymization/reduced anonymity). You're also narrowing down your anon set the larger value of tokens you hold (ecash tokens have "buckets" of 1,2,4,8,16, 32...etc, increasingly fewer denominations exist the larger the bucket)


One of my favourite parts about cashu mints is that they are not backed by lightning or bitcoin, and in fact don't need to integrate with such.

This makes them very flexible for being integrated with other assets/tokens like monero, dollars, pesos, cbdc, pogs, pokemon cards, smiley face stickers and more.


What other markets are compatible with Bitcoins value prop?

Every single white market transaction is permissioned