Does it mean Libterians like domestic wars?


We work jobs we hate but we don’t want to hunt deers

We buy things we don’t beed but still don’t want to ride horse across continent

We try to impress people we don’t like… well, there is not “but” :)


JFYI antigovernment messages containing populist agenda have tough time to be treated seriously usually


You are right,
I’m wrong,
nostr has already
won.


You make many legit claims but mix it with incorrect ones which makes it very time consuming to argue with so sorry, I will only answer with a simple statement:

Yes, we have a lot of non profit media and journalists today and it works fine! Don’t even know why bothering with smth like nostr


Maybe not all will apply. But this thread is an indication of the first step at least :)


You contradict yourself. I suggest you to take your advice :)
Again, I’ll try to put it simpler using your words. There is not a single jurisdiction without at least ANY restriction => EVERY operator MUST scan for illegal content unless they are uncatchable Joe. So your first argument doesn’t hold.

Also, relays MUST be for profit (if we are not talking about nostr in its today form no one uses just like right now) - because one has to pay for hosting and operation. So your second argument doesn’t hold.

Its great to have hopium at early stage project, but it has to be healthy balanced anyway


Anyone can curate and this can be almost free (spam)

But those who decide to train: they spend their resources, they bear responsibility, they get penalized.

So for me it looks like the only viable option for “decentralized curation, centralized training” is communism

How else could this be achieved?

P.S. also it seems to me it has the same vibes as “relays should grant free speech and forget monetization”


CommunismAI?


So relays should allow everything except for illegal content without even scanning fir illegal content you say?

Also cloud providers and ISPs must be forced to allow relays hosting for free right?


Nostr already won.


Land was good when you were able to protect it with your punches, stickes, stones maybe guns

Today land does not belong to people but to bigger constructs, so comparison makes little sense


What are nostr advantages over lets say https://docs.postgrest.org/en/v12/ for such apps?


What every fantasy film - it will be called credits :)


You mention that nostr “works” for social clients but not yet there for “other stuff”. Just keep in mind, its at the very least debatable if it works for social:
1. No likes
2. No followers
3. Broken profiles
4. No search
5. No private messages (yet)
6. No groups (yet)
7. No stats
8. No attachments
9. Single account for life
10. … list goes on

And the answer is usually “you don’t need it and hoy you will be happy”

The thought to change query language in future is interesting.

P.S. regarding “to database or not” I personally don’t have strong opinion but rather tend to believe “relays for transmitting, layer-2 for clients”


You asked a single question which I’ve answered in the simplest form possible. If you have another answer, ask it, this is how it works, when you don’t live hopium but real life


So what about them? They shutdown as soon as first complaint is filed. In reality they shutdown much earlier because actual traffic from a real social network does not fit into $5 vps

I’m just stating facts, sorry if I’m ruining your hopium, I honestly hope this outbox will fix this, btw, is it here with us in the room right now?


10 twitters running on the same protocol located in different countries/continents is rather decentralized

10 engineers running $5 vps for free will shut down with the first governmental subpoena (whichever govt it is)

So the answer is - “rather millions”


I’m trying to use a dozen of different search engines, and none of my devices has google as default search. However each time I actually need to search for something more complex (not so often though) I only use google because others simply don’t work


Businesses don’t agree here, even though they are not satisfied with 90%+ projects either don’t meet timelines or fail completely :)


Yeah, would nostr be ruby, it wouldn’t stuck at 10k users for so long :)


Well I could agree golang does web dev better than ruby-from-2000 :) other than that golang is great for “micro-services”. Luckily, “micro-services” are dying pretty fast lately

Every tool has a use-case, and average startup needs a way to handle complex business rules quickly and long-term


Why? There are no better tools yet to manage business logic heavy apps yet, especially that allow for so quick start on a $5 VPS and scale to multi million AWS setup


I believe ruby is still the most popular language for startups backend development if you factor out python hype which is temporary and wordpress-level development. Even server-side javascript is not very popular if you don’t count API->NextJS(server)->NextJS(client) as server side javascript

But yeah, most likely OpenAPI is enough, at least for 20/80


Nostr is built for “stealing” right now and its called censoeship resistance. Its a fundamental decision to not make it difficult to share content you see.

Theoretically its impossible to stop information spreading on internet. However, standard platforms make it as difficult as possible, which effectively translates to creators thinking they control things.

Not only nostr has nothing to handle this use case right now, I bet the majority of the community would not support it ans would say “if one is concerned their content to be copied to another relay they should not use nostr”

Right now external tools should be used to achieve that - i.e. post nostr note with a link to media server which only renders images to whitelisted IPs (who paid for content)


When I stand still my speed is 0 km/h, when I walk its 4 km/h, when I run its sometimes 15 km/h, wow, just a little bit of practice and I can throw my car away and commute 50 km just by running really fast!


Creators are the core of every social network. 1% of creators produce 90%+ of content people want to consume. Without creators a project could be anything but a social network

Just my 2 cents experience on that:

Last year I’ve started a project https://github.com/viktorvsk/saltivka to address this issue in particular, to build more tools for creators

However, I’ve found zero interest in the community to go this way. Most of the feedback usually “its a better place without influencers here”, “nostr already won and they will join when they understand, same as with bitcoin”, “I like nostr to be a safe place for smart people and I don’t want millions of idiots here”

So I’ve stopped building this part of nostr, because it requires coordination between relay devs, clients devs, ui/ux designers and operations teams, so I don’t see I can handle its all on my own


Well id Ukraine is insignificant for someone to support then just sit down and wait until a country significant to them will appear in the same position as Ukraine right now. L

The slightly difference will be that instead of money and verbal support they will have to send their own people to die, but thats probably insignificant once a significant country is invaded, right?


Lol, people considering this “an escalation” are so stupid, which makes this topic almost as good litmus test as bitcoin is


Of course it will not


Nostr is a subset of http


The only reason why you can write to big ones right now is because no one uses nostr right now. There is no even theoretical incentive for public relays to operate if nostr really becomes something

And no one wants to address this issue. Instead people tend to over engineer 64K relays that are extremely efficient and can serve 256 out of a coffee machine


I still believe if everyone who is able to create their own personal intelligent spam filter does it (I stopped for example because don’t see any value in it right now) — all those people will be able to discuss are bitcoin, nostr, meat, anarcho capitalism, libertarianism and maybe some other cryptocurrencies, but unsure here. However, I define “twitter alternative” completely differently

Hope to be very wrong and your optimism to play out well 👍


Running relay is cheap and will only become cheaper and corporations are straight stupid paying millions of dollars monthly for infrastructure?

Or rather this “cheap outbox relay approach” ignores social media aspects and focuses on “private groups” scenarios which is more like my personal webpage no one knows about rather twitter alternative?


So you expect everyone runs their own relay, just like everyone runs email servers today right?

Remember there is no centralization around gmail today — you can always selfhost since smtp is an open protocol. And if someone wont receive your emails well thats not a problem right?


Then you should probably not generalize your statement “any govt will break any expectation” too, otherwise your words don’t make sense and have just selective meaning to highlight what you want to say right here right now

Just the same as people who on one hand has some expectations from their govt (i.e support rusia genocide by dropping support of Ukraine) but completely forget that for example US has much bigger liabilities and according to its own decions it MUST send their soldiers to fight rusia but instead just decides to give some pennies the majority if which only support US manufacture and arsenal refresh.


This website is censoring my phone :(


So if you do not separate govts and ppl and you think you cannot trust any single govt - it seems like you want to say you should not trust any single person, is it what you mean?


So you completely separate governments and people right?


Whats your personal view on govts breaking their international agreements?


Less bombs, more responsibility to your own words and decisions — hello budapest memo 👋


> Advocates of each of these projects of course would dispute this, pointing out that you could always self-host, or somehow avoid depending on their semi-official infrastructure, but the truth is that if you're not on bluesky.app or warpcast.com, you don't exist, and nobody cares that you don't exist.

Aren’t nostr adepts of mythical outbox who consider anything server side to be an evil centralization from “them” saying the same things? “No one guarantees relays keep your posts but you can always selfhost and no one will care about you and this is a good thing because Nostr is a pure signal and we don’t need stupid normies here!”


I’m not very interested in your content because for me its 100% obvious what you are saying (I totally agree with you), I also don’t like posts usually because it makes no sense on nostr right now and no one wants it fixed

However I must admit seeing content like yours is very inspiring — its a breath among bitcoin/nostr/politics that gives hope this place could be used for regular social network activities


Really good question, maybe its because LLMs can only complete your sentences and not “carry a conversation and understand complex commands”? 🤔

Intent recognition (i.e https://cloud.google.com/dialogflow/cx/docs/concept/intent) topic is a bit different to LLM.

Can LLM mimic intent recognition? Absolutely! If-else statements can do that too though


Self hosted client side and p2p federation sound like you really now the thing!


Bitcoin fixes physical world in general and governments in particular

Outbox fixes virtual world in general and spam in particular

Nostr and bitcoin are protocols so they already won and we don’t have to do nothing

🍾🎉🍾


There are far less than 15000 active users and nostr:npub1xtscya34g58tk0z605fvr788k263gsu6cy9x0mhnm87echrgufzsevkk5s pays something for the damus relay — what should I do for my 10GBps raspberry4 to substitute relay.damus.io?


More evil than rusian terrorists committing genocides all over the world for decades and their people praising and sponsoring this?


Smells like premature optimization


Haha did you actually develop any software at least once?


Does the same apply to email and DNS servers?


How does one achieve this primary goal? Why would relay operators be willing to receiev, store, transfer and respond with user data?

Since right now its based on pure enthusiams and facts that operating a relay costs pennies and has almost no overhead and completely no legal consequences


Do you really considered mentioned resources to be youtube alternatives?


I was thinking on doing something similar but after initial investigation of fine tuming mechanics and consulting with great AI scientists and ML engs I came to the conclusion it won’t work nearly as good as I imagined and I didnt even start

Would be extremely interesting to see at least a prototype 👍


Rag and fine tune are like apple to oranges — different tools for different purposes


Nice idea but I bet that would look like a spam for the majority of both: normies and bitcoiners


Since the number of relay operators became equal 1 and the operator decided it doesn’t make sense to do so


Twitter is an implementation of nostr when its irrelevant how many relays there are


Keep in mind today it would be Webmain


Sonne - Rammstein


TL; DR;
Businesses please be altruistic and even when you are so genius that you find a way to get profit — focus on helping your competitors to throw you out for the greater good, because capitalism is evil nostr:note1248t3z3tvdsu26v9x9llmpcyf6qwe06fjy2k009y54ggfnnzhjfszpylj9


In my definition you have a different assumption on the first item - I don’t believe in the foreseeable future there will be a mesh of foss mobile devices that will be used as a social network in todays terms i.e hundreds of millions of users. I could believe this could be true for tens of thousands though. In this case nostr will be completely different product compared to how I see it now and how others see it now.

If you believe this network to onboard hundreds of millions of users, I would be cery gld to appear wrong


There are lots of unsolved problems but there is thr biggest fundamental issue I personally can’t find any solution to and the community simply ignores it. Consider pre requisits

1. You consider nostr to become a social network in modern definition of the term i.e allowing hundreds of millions of ppl around the globe to communicate and discover

2. You do not expect every 3rd nostr user to selfhost their relay on a $5/mo and this to somehow magically allow previous thesis

3. You do not expect 100% of the users to pay $10/mo for the less features any existing “free” social network provides

With this in mind, the fundamental problem is the following:

The only way to provide customers with okish services requires you to consolidate client and server and at this point you become web2.0 company with incentives to lock your users inside of your ecosystem.

If you believe in “free market” you have to understand web2.0 companies tried to break this circle for 30 years without luck. So the problem nostr faces right now is much challenging than implementing enterprise relay or even figuring out this hopium outbox model. But its easier to ignore hard challenges


Whats the difference between in-app relay and p2p?


Hey, thanks for that! But I’m not interested right now. Did you try asking here https://t.me/nostr_protocol ? There may be some nostr devs who might be interested


I wish those people all the best but tbh I don’t believe they either exist or have some real vision

Even if they are real and have such a strong vision they can only keep it in secret… they can’t find a $10k investment/credit to hire a dev? Sounds unreal, sorry, would love to be wrong here :)


What you describe is very interesting and I personally think this is a move into right direction, because still a lot of ppl here think “dumb servers, smart clients, outbox, alltoclient etc”

However, you describe it as API or some set of events - and at least at first sight I don’t see why this software should be a relay. At most it may have to know how to connect to relays to get data from them


I would really appreciate those people to write at least short and brief articles on how they are going to make money with it, I don’t think this is such a big secret in an open source ecosystem, and it would definitely help spark interest in developers


Ok, lets imagine I’ve setup such a relay. How do you get its address? Why would you add it to your client? If no one sends EVENT, your REQ will always be empty, does it increase redundancy in this way?


I’m not sure why are you referring to me as I’m company even though I’ve mentioned that I was involved in development. I never had any plans to earn money by operating a relay. I was trying to create a relay that others would operate and earn money on it (because this is the only sustainable way to operate a real relay long term IMO). But I’ve found zero demand for that.

So I was right that you don’t think the lack of incentives for operators is a real problem and you are also sure that free market will decide, so nothing changed in a year looks like, sigh

I really hope to be wrong and to see some day that someone decided to create an enterprise grade relay without thinking about any incentives for operators and it actually played well and they’ve got more than they could dream about :)

But right now I can only see declining number of relays and all of the “paid” relays posting post mortems and deciding to shutdown unfortunately


Why would one put time into developing a paid relay if not only no one is going to pay for it but even theoretical incentives to operate a relay do not exist?

Thats what I am (was) talking about - first we, as a community, have to think about the incentives and try to solve them before thinking about enterprise relays, or super mega efficient 5MB relays

But almost no one in the community does not see the lack of incentives as a problem. Judging by your answer, you too


Unlikely to be actively developed but you may be interested https://github.com/viktorvsk/saltivka


How does a tiny relay hosted on a server no one knows about helps nostr? Is this outbox model here with us in this room?


I’ve started working on a relay long time ago and didn’t see anyone willing to work on relays operators incentives.

There was completely no sense to run a relay except for altruism. And everyone was saying its not a problem because nostr has already won because its a protocol and if at some point there is not enough relays you can just spin your own up.

Did anything change recently?


You don’t need non-btc content to get non-btc people on a social network. Social networks have 1% of creators, 10% of commentators and 89% of consumers.

Incentivize creators to join nostr and get non-btc content and non-btc people. Unfortunately, nostr has nothing to offer to creators and general point of the core of nostr community is “we don’t need it, nostr already won because its a protocol”


Interesting, will take a look, thanks


What change?


Would be great if snowden would first stop supporting genocide because he decided to become famous. Everything else from his is noise


Well if we define simple as less complex and complex as something consisting of more elements than simpler than http is more simple because its a subset of nostr isn’t it? At least its part where you can try to enable permissionless


it seems to me, http is simpler


Involvement in something big


Its funny but pretty far from the peak of stupidity. Humanity can do much more stupid things:

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-7180945/X-rays-ravaged-Thomas-Edisons-assistants-hands-killed-him.html


Indeed. Nostrs main feature is that its free. And its free for life. And its free because developing clients and running relays is free, not because it is barely used right now and there are still some people around with great level of enthusiasm and altruism, you are right


Depends on your needs. Its based on postgres and redis at its core where basic configs can run even on coffee machines. And it has ruby to serve http requests which is a bit memory hungry.

But mostly it depends on your needs. I believe relays for your family and friends should be running fine on the cheapest $5 VPS

But you also can scale it up until postgres fails which I believe is much much higher than current nostr can demand.

However since its based on a couple of moving pieces (database, cache, background queue, scheduler, web server) unlike strfry which is just a single binary kinda, it requires more efforts to setup infrastructure to match your specific needs

Keep in mind that I’ve stopped working on it for now because I’ve failed to find real demand on user friendly relays


Highly doubt you can buy the same amount with 50 MMR in SC1 today as you were able to back in 2001


Reading those notes I realize how embarrassed mathematicians, physicians and other scientists should feel watching mainstream movies


Oh yeah, two camps never existed before 2014
Yin Yang
Good Evil
Black White
Nazis Allies

All came after 2014 👍


So you don’t have opinion on that?


So do I understand correctly that if you are saying that option 1 is not an option that you agree that it makes sense for Ukrainian govt and individuals to demand centralized exchanges, on ramps, off ramps, mining pools etc to limit rusians access to bitcoin/crypto?


Bitcoin helps to kill as well as dollars, knives and cars
Sanctions actually do minimize death (to minimal extent unfortunately, a lot of time disproportionally to some harm)

My question is what bitcoiners personal opinion on that. For example, put yourself on a place of Ukrainian bitcoiner who has a choice:
1) build infrastructure for bitcoiner to allow rusians sell more oil and buy more bullets that kill his family
2) try limit rusians abilities to sell oil for bullets using bitcoin


What my logic are you referring to? I stated the fact (do you think I’m wrong and bitcoin is not among the tools rusia uses in the war?) and asked for an opinion


Yeah its a well known mantra, but what is your personal opinion on that?


Bitcoin is one of the tools that helps rusia avoid sanctions (oil sanctions included) to be able to kill Ukrainians. Just curious, whats your take here, is it good for bitcoin?


Would be great to read a comprehensive write up on how it works legally in the very detailed way. Much more interesting than how it works technically tbh

For now it seems like in the veery simplified form you have money in the US bank and in the EU bank and once I come to you in the US and give you $100 you immediately buy bitcoin for $100 in the US, send it to someone in EU, the person in EU converts bitcoin to money in EU bank and sends it to my friend in EUR

Does it really work like this? How many gotchas in the process? What risks are managed and what are not? Extremely interesting!


I was trying to do it for a year or so and I gave up. I don’t think manual curation on social network (if we don’t call family/friends groups a social network ofc) is viable.

Today nostr is an echo chamber and only people who love this topic praise it. Do you mind to show active authors here you disagree with? Somebody saying nostr is shit, or US doing everything right or ETH >>> BTC or that palestine must not be free?


JFYI Hamas to iran is the same as L/DPR to rusia


Idk, but 90% of my feed is propaganda: of nostr, bitcoin, antigovt, antitaxes and “us is bad”, “its not so obvious with rusia/iran” and “outbox model is the only path for nostr”

Almost nothing else. Just nostr:npub1j7jqxeqvswkp90892m0d3ke086lgjxqpsvh6zy22hknn56hgtxxq3wtdlk posting cool tech stuff from time to time that is interesting to read


You’d better listen to rusia arguments from Kharkiv and to iran’s probably from the inside of their country. Why are you still sitting in this awful West?


People not overthrowing their evil regimes must understand they can become wiped out at any point in time because if they help kill innocent people then why would one want to rescue them eventually when the board turns?


Well if you are privileged enough (last century it means you are living in the US mostly) - you can fight evil governments

The question is what happens to privilege - stays at the same place or floats elsewhere


The love is in the air. And in Shaheds flying in this air of course


Peacemakers are awesome:
“Iran only treats Israel”
“Iran only launched a couple of hundreds of missiles”
… you are here…
“Iran only used a single tactical nuke”


And how does bitcoin helps avoiding wars if not everybody uses bitcoin? Lets say you are right and everybody uses bitcoin in this utopia and suddenly there are no wars and no weapons

And then one state decides to go back and print this dirty fiat. How bitcoin stops wars in this case?


So do you want to force EVERYONE to use bitcoin?


Likes are identical, aren’t they? Or this is a joke I’ve missed?:)


Poor iranians, they are the most peaceful  inhabitants on earth who just want to spread love through iron flying machines


People never experienced violence can never understand people who did. Entire world was confident rusia never attacked  Ukraine between 2010 and 2022


Thats a path to become a gatekeeper


I mean, “social media experience” can’t be served through a single computer, even super computer. Only John Doe could become self sovereign with a single nostr node.

If some celebrity/politician who gets censored by major nostr relays wants to become self sovereign, a single rpi wont help

Or any dos attack if you are not a famous person but someone wants you off for some reason for example


A couple of thousands at least


On nostr your raspberry pi will grant you self sovereignty only until you reach a hundred of simultaneous honest readers or a single dishonest one


With no govt, who builds tanks?


Does free market exist?


There already were native americans before your ancestored settled there. And they were rather advocating for closed borders than for letting migrants in

And while I don’t have any sharp opinion on that because this topic doesn’t touch me at all and I realize that were different times… it seems completely incorrect that your ancestors had to deal with wilderness on their own and they built it with only their blood blah blah blah and thats why no migrants should be allowed

It sounds especially funny when 99% of people in the world claiming they are against migrants in developed countries don’t even think their lifestyle is possible mostly because there are a lot of migrants willing to work for pennies


Wait were your ancestors dealing with wilderness back then or rather those who wanted their border closed?


I would really appreciate to hear your normies friends experience how “AI” helped them! Would be great if this could be a longer article

Especially would be interested to hear stories from engineering and manufacturing since it seemed to me top-notch machine learning practices are getting adopted there for last decade and somehow without llm-level hype hysteria :) would be amazing to hear how “real engineers” prompting chat gpt to boost their productivity!


The thing is IMO that regulations are not evil per se, they can unfold for better or for worse, but they are still needed because society still doesnt have better ways of organization than having govts of different shapes

Also regulations a lot of time are just ways to protect from high impact of unknowns. Bitcoin is a huge unknown even for “bitcoiners” which are suuuper minority, what can we even say of normies

But I still believe humanity will find right balance in terms of regulations and progress and those who are more aware of the domain area should not fight but help others find ways IMO


No worries. I’m genuinely curious. I have yet to find people from software (other than those bound by VC funds chasing AI badge) who are as excited by “AI” as those who just admire musk/altman


100k-1kk* of course


If you only consume the content from your follows you are indeed safe but thats not a social network experience

If you want to potentially be exposed to content of follows of your follows its approximately 100k-100kk users which kinda could work on a moderate gaming pc but def not a regular tier-2/tier-3 smartphone

If you want to see more 🤝🤝🤝friends of friends connections you need a solid hardware cluster given that at least some activity happens


Do you have hands on experience in software development?


How much memory/cpu are you willing to allocate for your nostr client of choice?


Just curious do you also hate EU for forcing Microsoft allowing other options than IE, for forcing Apple allow fixing iPhones at home, making Apple allow custom appstores and even more evil regulations outside of software I’m not so aware of?


…we already have fake* text, photo…


I think its neutral, we already have text, photo, video and audio content for decades. Even though a lot of those contents are low quality people still become their victims.

So if it takes a little less resources to generate content of higher quality, I don’t see how it can dramatically change anything


This is a huge part of the domain area, there are a lot of research going on on this topic. There examples where it works, but today its difficult to say if they actually work or artificially assembled in laboratory environments


How is that possible? You said rusia never attacks nato, I assume it also means China never attacks Taiwan.

So what countries does this world include?


43 is not nothing, its kinda even more important than nip-42. Nip-43 - is Fast Auth


Well, if you don’t get abstract examples and metaphors sorry for that.

We can put it simpler. If you claim that controlling content is “centralizing” and you don’t understand the mentioned example - I have no other conclusions to make rather than you are going to host a relay, regardless of what content will be stored there.

Looking forward to get an address of this relay.


Well, I have my own views developed decades ago mostly and I consider them consistent across different topics/domains and it works for me most of the time.

And the fact that those views contradict  views of 90% of loud majority on nostr who speak about social networks but have very limited experience there, only gives me confidence :)

So no worries


I could imagine the scenario where there are millions of relays and in this case they will be pretty big (bigger than personal/family ones) in this case operators would definitely want to control content. Would you be happy to host a relay where 90% of content is a pure rusian propaganda? Some would want to have personal choice what to host. Others would be forced by laws. Some will want to base content off economic activity

I think if there is a relay where the operator may afford not to care about content at all, it should be extremely small relay. In such case there should be hundreds of millions of relays in existence. Would be great but I can hardly imagine this scenarior


If you don’t vote, it means you vote for current govt


Recommendations (unless you mean they are a part of discoverability)
Tools for relay operators to control content
Tools for creators to analyze reach
Private messages
Private groups
Push notifications
At least basic safety features (i.e. not exposing your IP address to those who send you pics)
Better (some) history/archiving strategy
Some alignment on what is (main) nostr’s targeted auditory
Kinds navigator/explorer
A way to “easily contribute to entire nostr” by providing hardware

Thats just from the top of my mind


No matter how you apologize yourself ultimately government is you


Lets discuss it somewhere in private. I’m still in search of a good nostr chat app client so you could send me an email in my bio or on my website or ping me on tg https://t.me/viktorvsk


Are you still looking for a job? If my memory serves me well, I have left you some comments regarding job search half a tear ago or so

If you are still searching, would be potentially interesting to discuss one opportunity


I’ve thought about the dozen of answers to objectively describe my answers in regard to the initial note…

But I will just probably say that nothing prevents water from tending to absolute zero way lower celsius zero, even liquid one


Also, I misunderstood you here and specifically for that I apologize. I thought you did your research before posting the initial note and still decided to only mention 2k price. In this case you would intentionally spread disinformation

But if you didn’t do the research before making this claim you are spreading disinfo not intentionally but because you are a victim of propaganda

You say shit that directly affect my country and me. How can you expect me to be nice with you?


I may sound like an ass sometimes for some people because most of the time people don’t like the truth AND most of the time they can only see the truth when showered with cold water


And do I read it correctly that even regardless of what price tag is real, in your initial post you decide to use the lowest one without even mentioning there may be doubts?


Its just a propaganda that their drones cost 2k and it costs 2kk to hit them. The same was for iranian drones rusians launch in Ukraine (perhaps the same drones itan supplies houthies with). But recently people started realizing drones cost closer to 200-300k at best


“A small set of possibilities” in that case is when you mix 2 lego boxes each with its own orders, mix it for a minute and get 2 layers one completely red and other one completely blue - thats what a small set of possibilities mean in this case

Otherwise probability is always 50/50 either yes or not


The funniest thing in this case that NATO would be frozen for months of decisions most likely because rusia would say they don’t invade anyone — thats crazy Ukrainian nazis attack Poland and rusia is actually trying to protect Poland


So you don’t have any opinion based on logic and only some emotions and hopium. Then its you who are affected by propaganda since its easier for you to blame the victim instead of realizing hard truth


I’m asking pretty trivial question which you dodge by some reason.

If the world does not owe anything to Ukraine, why does it owe anything to Latvia, Lithuania, Estonia, Finland, Norway, Germany and Poland?

I don’t care here about any propaganda or capabilities. Simple question. Are those mentioned countries are in the same situation as Ukraine in terms of paper agreements or by some reason “its different”?


Why? Because article 5 “is different” compared to budapest memo?

It doesn’t have to invade it even. Just put a couple of wagner terrorists near Latvia border and start “training” and occasionally “miss” some drones/missiles/bullets over Latvia border. Or simply launch kalibrs from Baltic sea over nato members and accidentaly make it fall in the middle like it happened many times in RO and BG and TR already with drones and sea mines

I just want to understand where your hopium comes from that europe is safe? Looking at every country bordering with rusia how it rapidly militarizes, seems like they don’t share your positive attitude there


The real reason why the world becomes less stable is that after ww2 many people in the world decided that democracy works and humanity agrees on some basic rules. And then a bunch of terrorists decided to challenge this assumption. And the more those people hesitate the less stable this world becomes by showing other terrorists that democracy doesn’t want to fight for its freedoms and it would better give up as much as possible in exchange for some hopium that “this is different”


So, answering a simple question, you assume that article 5 would not be used in case rusia invades european nato members, do I get you right?


Interesting, if you think budapest memo is useless, what makes you think nato article 5 is not?

Budapest memo being useless make Ukrainians fall in fear, as well as a perception of article 5 being useless would put entire europe be scared af

Do you also think europeans, Australians, Japanese should really consider article 5 to follow the destiny of budapest memo or “this is different”?

Yes, entire world is somewhat stable due to global agreements (on paper) and the US military is the most important factor there, thats a fact


Imagine what Ukrainians feel [on nostr] when they see people posting something like “nah, thats all because of the US/globalists/WEF/nazis” when rusians committ genocide


Does it mean that if your entire life sell toothpicks then closer to retirement you will be giving them away for free?


Hard to disagree


I wouldn’t recommend to go all in into coding even 10 years before. Its just a tiny skill that probably allocates around upto 10% of software development


Usually you wanted to pile books up because they contain distilled, clean, deep and verified information because in the majority of the cases published information stays true for decades or centuries with just small adjustments from time to time

Its probably incorrect to compare llm to books and considering one in favor of another

It could be a super cool offline-first swap for the majority of your google queries like “how many continents are there”, “what is the time in Sydney right now” etc, those question-answers pairs should have its own term


Of not discovery. Or a late discovery. Or a wrong discovery.

If thats your nostr feed that could have a couple of hours or days or months of being affected, thats probably ok

If your banking app got updated from another source and your WoT helped to discover it in an hour - it may already be too late

So in case if you don’t actually care of the consequences of the attack - thats ok. If you do care, you want as much control as possible. And today WoT could give much less control than Apple


Sounds great… if you don’t actually care of the consequences


I rather refer to software development case when you have multiple open source dependencies in your project and one day one of the dependencies becomes controlled by an attacker

In case of a web of trust it may mean one of your friends becomes the attacker, or they are sold to an attacker or they get hacked by an attacker etc


It should. But even being very optimistic I can’t see any sense in it. rusians are stupid and all, but they are still just on another level of availavle resources


Sounds freaking cheap. Or you are way too pro. It was 70 UAH for me to get my car a bit more fresh but still dirty and 250 UAH for a fresh, clean but have stains back into 2021 😂


And then you learn a term “supply chain attack”


And tbh unfortunately I don’t think it currently makes a big difference. The main part is “partners” support, and not even only US and NATO but all of them. Without it, even Genghis Khan or Caesar unlikely could make a difference :(


Well, there are different opinions. I personally don’t like this change at all, but I’m completely not an expert and certainly don’t have enough information to judge


I don’t think its good or bad. But I think birth place or passport don’t make you rusian. Its a state of mind (or rather absence of one) which makes one to be a rusian.

There are many people who had rusia passport in the past fighting for Ukraine - they just know who is a real enemy.


First of all, you have to understand not only bitcoin is at risk — our ENTIRE life is dependent on the same math that assumes bitcoin is not hackable. So if there is something able to hack bitcoin, then we anyway have MUCH bigger problems and bitcoin is itrelevant

Second, quantum computing is a myth. Quantum resistant algos is a myth. They do not exist. There are even no working theories. There are a couple of math theories and some practical experiments in this area but its just scientists having fun. Today, even if something like this gets developed,  nobody knows will it be more efficient at hacking bitcoin than an ASICS fleet or less efficient. Nobody knows how those quantum algos (to attack and to defend) would look like. Thats all speculations

Indeed, its an extremely interesting area of science which has a chance to change our lives significantly in future. But today its probably less real than flying cars back into 1960x


And those people want developers to protect their “free speech” with technical solutions, amazing


I translate: “I don’t know anything about neither rusia or Ukraine but I don’t like US/CIA/NATO and I know they all don’t like rusia so I stand with rusia”

Thats actually a pretty valid and okish position. But only like 100 years in the past and before. With the amount of available information a person making such claims looks plain stupid, because it could take at max couple of says to educate themselves. But they don’t want to spend their time and they better chose to become genocide supporters instead of admitting they are blessed to just don’t give a fuck yet and stay ignorant


I bet lies are “they”


Which “it”?


Its great to not support any type of war or even violence. But do you understand that war and violence sometimes are not bidirectional ?

There are cases when people just want to commit violence and go to the war with you irregardless of who you are, what you do and what you want

And in this case you can’t “turn your other cheek” like in bible or smth, you could chose between:
1) die
2) become a slave
3) fight back/hate back/war back

And funny here is only your inability to answer my question which you are hiding behind some philosophical considerations :)


Could you remind me when was the last time NATO fired strategical weapon into residential area?


Overestimating your enemies is as bad as underestimating them


Of course, that makes sense, I’m just a guy whos country is being destroyed, I don’t have a wing of TU-95 under my command or a suitcase with the red button otherwise you would interview me

Force and violence is the ultimate law and this kind of “free speech” demonstrates it amazingly


Free speech doesn’t work until people who are _curious_ to hear what pootin says exist. It just doesn’t worth it to have such free speech for humanity


Whatever you think about (attempting) to delete something on internet, inability to do so is just… an inability. Its not a feature, its a bug. Its a downside. Its bad. But instead of admitting this, some people for some reason what to bend people under technology and say its good. Amazing time we live in


I bet he uses his notes to store lmdb


Well he could probably say he was sooo pressured by eastern borders of NATO expanding since 1998 despite there was a private conversation against that between some people some time ago so he had no choice but to order to kill those people to blow off a steam. And that would become a totally legit reason for the people on this thread and a win of free speech


So, you are insulted that dictators pocket propagandist is a called a liar because iof free speech and stuff but once hitting arguments you resort to sending people to die - I can smell free speech through the wires:) don’t worry, if democracy is defeated in Ukraine entire world will become a frontline and I’ll be there right after you

And you should learn the difference between demanding others to do something instead of you and calling them out to hold their own liabilities ;)


European politicians are trying to sanction a propagandist of their biggest enemy*

Here, I’ve fixed it for you


And thats the key. For everyone who has experienced rusian imperialism on their skin - there is one and the only villain.

For people blessed to only watch those genocides online - its easier to believe “nothing is so obvious” instead of the fact that there is a 100+ million nation in the 21th century that just want bring death and destruction instead of doing science and progress


Ahahah, perhaps seeing “hungarian arguments” is the funniest things I’ve seen so far. Well if you are a hungarian expert, you must have known what is Budapest’s KEY role in this war 😂


pootin can only say lies. If you are blessed to not have to listen to him for decades, you are very lucky and I really glad for you that our current world order is able to give you a peaceful life. Thats actually one of the reasons why ukrainians die today

But if after so many events, so much first hand information, so many possibilities to verify on your own whats actually going on you still think something is not really clear. And especially given that you mention here US and rusia and don’t even mention Ukraine here (the main reason why this interview happens) - then you must understand you clearly show unbelievable signs of disrespect to every victim of this genocide and every person who knows on its own whats going on. And you can think whatever you want but in the eyes of those people (me included) you look like an ugly guy watching netflix series “ru-ua conflict” and hoping for some crazy conspiracy theories instead of a super mainstream scenario with a villain known from the first episode. And you must be prepared whatever you think about it, in out eyes you will always be just another genocide supporter. And unfortunately, history shows there are just more and more victims of rusian genocide lovers each year, so be prepared.


Its weird what surprises you here. Its an equivalent of “I don’t want to have business with murderers”, “I don’t want criminals visit my home”. The most logical step in modern politics in fact that  reflects EU electorate opinion


So tens of millions of people for decades from chechnya, georgia, ukraine, syria and many others tell you everywhere that rusians are straight murderers. Almost every international organization (even those which partially sponsored by bloody rusian money) have to admit it. President of this terrorist state is prosecuted by international court. Since 2022 you have every possible evidence online to ensure levels of genocide. You can go to ukraine on your own to verify it.

But you still think something is not clear and its all because of propaganda, right?

Jfyi In the world where every person can share their content with millions of people online, there are no more journalists, there is no such things as journalist ethics etc.


There are a couple of countries of nations today and most of them have nukes today and many of the also constantly threaten their neighbors and invade them right?

It was a long time I’ve studied geography and history at school, so maybe I’m out of touch with reality and you could educate me?


Clowns are scared of strategical strategic genocide, bombarders and nuclear weapons? Well, I’m definitely a clown, aren’t you?


Hahah. No, its COMPLETELY different things. Like NOTHING in common


And 0.96% are coming from occupied territories of different nations


Yeah, avoid evil emails but force users install custodial lightning wallets or run their own lightning nodes 😂

You won’t believe it of course, but you are allowed to use nostr without email/phone/account (by relays) only because nobody actually uses nostr today


Oh, that sounds cool, huge respect to tether


Then you probably support all next statements:
1) accusing someone is a free speech
2) mining bitcoin is a free speech
3) firing kalibr missiles onto a sovereign country residence area is a free speech
4) writing software code is a free speech

Right?


Do you honestly believe this is a good thing and you support this interview been taken and people all over the world to discuss it?


Well it means you support talking to a terrorist. Just for a sale of a talk and entertainment of some people who watch genocide in the same way they watch new netflix series. Because those talks don’t help in any way but they show him and other dictators and genocide supporters he is not isolated.

Those talks show democracy is weak and it would rather talk than defend itself. So if another dictator starts another war in your country, just recall those talks and enjoy watching a new episode


Mind sharing a couple of accounts that produce interesting content (according to your definition of interesting of course)


Sounds like the idea is if you do not control the definition of result, you can work infinite hours for nothing

In the end it doesn’t really matter how payments are done but the degree of trust between participants


Lol evil corporations vs holy books is an epic fight


You have yet to find out some much about real world :)


Is this fact somehow related to complete absence of good content here wdyt?


Yeah, its so fan, it probably pootin who should be nominated right?


People really apply terms “controversial” and “censorship resistance” to revenge-porn deepfakes? Congrats, deep fakes worked, you are their victims


Yeap, and thats the exact reason for a relay name btw (https://github.com/viktorvsk/saltivka)


I almost finished a big article on that matter but at some point I understood nobody cares about it here. In short:

1) social network phenomenon is built upon small numbers of creators producing the majority of content and a big amount of users consume it
2) consumers do not care about nostr properties, creators do (those who already relate to the victim-side)
3) nostr cannot compete with platforms directly because their UX is much better for regular features
4) however nostr could provide other advantages
5) if nostr provides something that is valuable for creators and attracts them, then there is a chance to get “global adoption” and potentially reshape social network experience


I wish I could share your hopium in humanity but almost for 2 years 140 (10
In fact, but precious were not as massacre as those 2) millions of people want to destroy my country and every citizen who does not obey completely. And millions worldwide support them with either silence or neutrality or even better—conspiracy theories like “govts are bad”, “its all US” etc

I sincerely glad you live in environment where 99.9% of people are good, but unfortunately thats just your bubble. And the worst part here is that 10 people with weapon can annihilate millions of good people with bitcoin economy and vegan food


You want to believe everybody adapts bitcoin eventually because of the game theory but you chose to ignore the game theory in violence

I know normal people want to believe that everything bad (esp wars) are happening because of some mysterious THEM — those who brainwash people and force them to go wars

But reality is much simpler — there are a lot of regular people in the world who prefer to commit violence instead of playing by some established rules (go to the office, grow some food, painting etc).

And no amount of changes to the tax and monetary policies can’t remove human nature from the equation — there always will be people who WANT to commit violence. And THE ONLY cure from that people is also VIOLENCE unfortunately.

And violence always progresses so something like “mutually assured destruction” is the only concept today that tends to limit violence progression. Yet its not a perfect solution but we don’t have anything better.

No changes to the rules can stop those who do not respect the rules


Well, I kinda still think this narrative rather holds long-term. Its a game theory and its a viable scenario.

However, recent events have washed my face with a cold water to show that we also can’t avoid managing what happens short-term in our life.

And the answer is as always in some balance between reality and dreams.


Got it. And the reason why rusia is allowed to commit genocide in Ukraine for almost 2 years is because there is not enough bitcoin adoption, right?

And if Ukraine would stop paying taxes, therefore it would not have any military, then its borders would be protected by an orange protoss shield wall built on bitcoin, right?


Oh, indeed, people across the globe could alltogether negotiate to do a certain thing honestly and play by rules and if one dictatorship country decides to not behave then the entire world unites without hesitation immediately


Yeah, individuals would voluntarily pay billions of dollars to build their sovereign military, thats obvious, how hasn’t anyone still figured it put, sick


I don’t know, I can’t even consider this option because governments are too aggressive here. Maybe if the world would be free from this tyrannic measure, I could think about it


Indeed. Almost as weird as EVERY government violently forces EVERYONE to wear pants EVERYDAY. At least this draconic rule is not applied inside of our houses (yet)


Great writeup! Even though I can’t agree on too much hopium for nostr and bitcoin to fix everything and for (current)  “AI” to change software development significantly

However, my suggestion is rather touches pretty different topic. In short, its bad to get a couple of new centralized app stores on iOS but its much better than none.

And if one of new centralized appstores utilizes nostr in one way or another, not necessarily in a full decentralized and censorship resistant way, it may be highly beneficial for nostr in general imo


viktorvsk

Building #saltivka 🇺🇦 Nostr Friendly Relay (https://saltivka.org)

Building #Knowstr — smart Nostr events aggregator (https://github.com/viktorvsk/knowstr)

Working to enable people have more activities through the word of mouth between friends, friends of friends and more 🤝 with https://recar.io and https://valent.network


nostr:npub1cn4t4cd78nm900qc2hhqte5aa8c9njm6qkfzw95tszufwcwtcnsq7g3vle would you like nostr:npub1ex7mdykw786qxvmtuls208uyxmn0hse95rfwsarvfde5yg6wy7jq6qvyt9 to handle in-app payments on AppStore?


I think its rather political question. If Europe wants to force Apple have competition on stores level, it would achieve it

That may be EU govt sponsored appstore, yes, but it still could in theory built “on nostr” (whatever it means)

Also its probably just a beginning in this game


This March iOS starts allowing 3rd-party AppStores. Still on its own rules and only in Europe but its a shift. As I understand (may be wrong here though) most popular Androids don’t let you chose stores, they just bundle theirs own

What if we make an AppStore client on nostr that works with NIP1 (maybe a couple more simple nips) that allows you to run your own store? You could even make it compatible with android, windows etc if you want. And partner with Strike to allow in-app purchases with bitcoin

Of course, even if our open-source community manages to accomplish this project technically, we won’t be able to run it on our iphones since someone would have to operate the platform and pass Apple’s review which I believe would be near to impossible, at least for the first time

But if we would build some skeleton/prototype, there could appear more companies willing to make business on that and promote nostr as a sideeffect

Googling “open-source app store” gives me zero relevant results

nostr:npub180cvv07tjdrrgpa0j7j7tmnyl2yr6yr7l8j4s3evf6u64th6gkwsyjh6w6 nostr:npub1sg6plzptd64u62a878hep2kev88swjh3tw00gjsfl8f237lmu63q0uf63m what do you think?

#asknostr #startup #grownostr #appstr #storstr #ios #Apple


What makes demand for relays increase in future? Do you believe nostr onboards millions of users and they all understand the value of censorship resistanceness and they would pay relay operators directly for holding their data?


But you don’t have any incentive today to keep things interoperable at scale, actually, the opposite is true today - the more users get into nostr, the more centralized it becomes.

Recently as far as I know latest consensus - this is not important vector to focus on and there is only hopium so called outbox model would solve this problem


The funniest part is when someone says something about importance of information freedom and opinions in rusia 😂 https://image.nostr.build/2975720043e8d054057d86f91de0ad593ebe13cea1f787d6042955869f2731e9.jpg


By low code tools you can install with caprover I mean something like this https://budibase.com (there are more on the market like this)

Take a look and maybe you will find it a better tool for your use case instead of sjango


Well, I’m not sure whats your technical level so sorry if I explain obvious things. To complete your task end to end in the simplest way you need:

1. Service that handles  your business logic (process user requests, store products, manage them, contact with btcpay server)
2. Btcpay server
3. Server to run it (assuming you don’t use any managed solutions like AWS etc)
4. Tool to build your app
5. Tool to deploy your app to the server (because you don’t want to do it manually each time by copying source code to production)
6. Tools for basic monitoring your apps are operating ok and fixing if not
7. Tools/processes to attach domain name to your server (and most likely you want to handle SSL certificates too)

Django may help you solve 1)
For everything else (well except for 3) there are infinite numbers of ways to handle it manually, less auto, more auto, extremely automatically.

Caprover may help you with all those items except for 1) and 3) but you have to have basic understanding of docker

It may also help you solve 1) by installing one of the 1click apps and setting them in a no/low code way. However if you are fine implementing your business logic in Django, you don’t need it


Look at caprover.com — it can handle deployments, updates, domain names, ssl certificates etc. its a 100% selfhosted PaaS

It also goes with some 1click apps like low-code products that you may find useful


Last time I’ve checked a couple of months ago Coracle was the only one where it worked. You couldn’t control how it worked but at least it was possible. Other clients either do not support it at all or support just a small subset of the spec in order to work with nostr.wine


The question is that how those who are running relays benefit off of it? Latest consensus I’ve heard “they don’t and there will be relays operated by big nostr-clients” and then there is a question why if a nostr-client has to operate a relay (since it doesn’t make sense to operate a relay for non-client-affiliated entity) then why would client devs benefit off of interoperability, letting their customers go away to their competitors anytime? Given the fact that current social network “client+relay” developers i.e. Facebook/Twitter are not doing this?


How does interoperability benefit a person holding data on their servers in general or nostr relays in particular?


Bitcoin isn’t yet accepted everywhere because of one simple reason - not so many people really need it today.

Some people are better chasing investments gains elsewhere and we can see they are right in recent years, and they may die/retire before next halving

Some people don’t care about bitcoin because they feel very well in fiat system - those with a lot of real estate, stocks etc can just sit and relax and enjoy for themselves and future generations. All those stories about “big reset” or similar… are just some yetti story for them they heard a lot

And there also a lot of people who can’t care about bitcoin because they have MUCH more important goals - say, to survive. To survive from rusian genocide, rockets, missiles, bombs and all other types of modern warfare equipments (excluding nuclear) supported by people who are out of politics, or who ARE actually politics like Snowden

So it sounds a bit odd when you support genocide of tens of millions of people forcing them to fight for their lives instead of working for bitcoin adoption and at the same moment you are surprised to see low bitcoin adoption 😂

rusian bombs are targeting power plants on winters and nor bitcoin nor lightning work out of thin air, you know


Well this is a very important trait of bitcoin to realize, especially for Ukrainians right now :)

If you endorse bitcoin usage you must be more or less indifferent on the nature of money. You can still, say, call out scam crypto articles. Or you can still try to ban rusians from on/off ramps, but if you want bitcoin to succeed you must realize it exists to let people get money for different crimes.

If course the same is true about the dollar, but it is not one of its main selling points


VERY IMPORTANT, to all good people, to all open minds and burning hearts, plebs, I am writing this to you:

How am I doing? 🔥 I am at WAR 🔥.

Don't ask me how I'm doing;(

I will not answer you as it really is. I can't say as I usually say - "great" or "super"!!!

Because I have a fucking war going on at home!!! At home!!!!
Some nits decided to seize or damage my home, my country.
They are shelling us every day, pushing thousands of tanks at us, shooting, killing.

I'm in a very bad mood, I can't think of anything worse, I have nothing to do but think about destroying the enemy on my land (actually, I have a lot of projects), because they came with evil from the side of evil, and they are evil, russia_is_evil!

And you, don't think for a moment that you can understand me, sitting at home on a warm couch somewhere in Europe or the United States, but I understand you, because I didn't understand it in 2015.

Brothers and sisters, everyone who carries goodness inside! Wake up! Evil may be sitting next to you right now.

The ignorance that rides on the ego and creates a vicious circle in which these amoebas accept the lies of propaganda as the truth of life. This is the enemy, it is everywhere, it is stupid and poor, but it can be aggressive and physical, even launch missiles into your house, be careful!!!! It is the enemy of everything good in this world, it is the enemy of intelligence, goodness and good people.

And it must be destroyed. There is no other choice. Unfortunately. A war has begun in which this will happen.

The images show the number of air targets shot down by our air defence forces that terrorists launched at us only in 2023. these are only rockets and large Iranian kamikaze drones. You can also see the official figures of our enemy's losses!!  (just imagine for a moment the amount of metal and meat that is coming at you)
and of course, a couple of photos and videos of us destroying this disgusting thing. …

👾

So I'm now using all the Bitcoin technologies to produce the drones and robots we all need. I'm a very peaceful person and see bitcoin as a universal good, but now I'm at war, and bitcoin is with me! https://image.nostr.build/e282e188cc3f937fd0bd21fdc0d239d6459463eeaa8671883c488190eeba667c.jpg https://image.nostr.build/805e70eed7f8546efb8ae896d83eeed490695341a510d37ba3a63b000edfb012.jpg https://image.nostr.build/9099b9c5c4a0f5705f62fffce02ab730262210927767f4acfc85715c10f2c583.jpg https://image.nostr.build/fa6f854986a4fd061f141249d9c29d82d37e6a74d69dc02455129000f75a048a.jpg https://video.nostr.build/f50dfecd52bef6ea3d44a253423654d46a47ba64a568a056bbe492a8bd29279c.mp4 https://image.nostr.build/e3fcac506800a4411d3b309f075bb2e0336cebfc23ff4d343b9288e9d164d2ea.jpg


People often say “nostr is nip1 other is optional” and because of that even always dance around “websockets are cool we CAN’T have HTTP its NOT NOSTR !!1”

So what the hell is 10002 and why should anyone implement this nonnostr stuff?


Roger Zelazny: This Immortal


Its not difficult to figure out what keys are. Its how to handle it responsibly on your own is difficult. And WHY it makes sense is what should be explained

Microwaves are extremely dangerous (not that in the kitchen but those flying in the air) thats why there are tons of regulations and policies enforced by govts

Even if its not best experience recovering lost gmail of AppleID password its still possible at least in courts eventually. People don’t want to live in fear that if they hwallet/paper/brain is lost - they MUST forget about all of their wealth/identity


Create a public telegram chat group with comments, throw away password from the account you have created it with, share the link to this chat with some programmers — you have a x1000 better tool to cover nerds needs in a matter of seconds without wasting tons of efforts and resources

You don’t need all of that if you just want some niche place to chill with like-minded people


You don’t need wasting a huge resources put into nostr (both development and compute wise) for that too


What prevents you from talking freely on telegram/whatsup/facebook/etc groups?


Which World Order are you referring to? One that a lot of bitcoiners and nostriches want to destroy because of inflation and necessity of paying taxes?


Wow, it unfolds much sooner than I expected that without incentives for operators to run free relays people start reinventing web 2.0 in websockets :)

Hopium that everything could be built client side is still strong, it will probably fall the last


Well, you have a lot of interesting stuff to explore in software development industry, my friend :) because reality is a bit different. In theory, DNS and browsers were supposed to bring free and sovereign internet to humanity originally


Keep in kind one important thing is always taken for granted by the majority of bitcoin proponents (and critics) today, especially talking about “post WW2” and stuff — violence


Either its a bad review or I don’t see anything bad if business decides to use opensource products, makes money off of it and once issue in that product causes their customers loses - this business should be responsible for that

Businesses decide to abuse open source and open source developers most of the time. Maybe it will otherwise be a net good if businesses will be incentivized to pay more attention to open source products they use

If it happens its better for businesses to develop proprietary products than using open source ones… well, then its also good, not everything should be free


Chornobyl was not a psyop. It was a disaster caused by awful USSR (rusia) management  of a very complex innovative technological project (which communism and dictatorship is not able to handle anywhere close to well as history shows).

It is a psyop calling Chornobyl disaster a psyop without having no understanding of what happened there (except for Netflix series maybe), without knowing people involved, without being there and without any research done in that area


Looks amazing! In the next versions it would be great to enhance it with more details,I don’t know if there is a specific term for this kind of art - where the more you look into it the more details you see

Like very high resolution version of this image. Where each paper (note) could have different “types” on it e.g. bitcoin, football, art, cars, science etc etc

Users may have different skin colors, national clothes, flags. Clients could indicate android, ios, web. Relays may indicate different programming languages. Different sides of image could be day/night/winter/summer. Clients may also indicate photos/texts/audio specialization etc etc to show ubiquitous design of nostr — I would zap this a lot


Democracy is losing to dictatorship. Its just a matter of time already once the same happens in your city. If you are lucky enough, you die because of old before it happens. Most likely your kids won’t be that lucky


Just joking, showing people that nostr is (most likely) moving in the wrong direction (if it can be called “moving” at all)


Do you run your own relay? Do you expect every user to run it? Do you know there are 5 relays everyone uses (thats why nostr “works” today) 5 more with some data but less popular. And 400 unused empty relays?

You can post your “avatar” to twitter/instagram/facebook and copy it immediately to your personal website, then you don’t need nostr, right?


Other than Nostr?


Unfortunately, I have no other comments. There are paid relays, thats a fact. There are also people who believe the Earth is flat, its also a fact

Doesn’t change there are no incentives to run relays and the Earth is a sphere


Next step for nostr community is to realize there are completely no incentives to run relays. Clients at least have established business models they can utilize


Unfortunately not every community member/developer thinks so. And its pretty exhausting to do something complex for free against the community you doing it for - many people face this today


Thats a cool story indeed!:)

I want to help people in areas I like and feel comfortable. In the same way i don’t want to give a fuck how my bathroom is built and if anything happens there I want to have a way to immediately find a person who is great at fixing bathrooms and have a way to be more or less sure that I won’t be completely fooled

And I believe the same goes for people outside of software development - perhaps there are dentists who focus on helping people with their teeth instead of figuring out what is phishing and where is the distinction between a coop meme and genocide misinformation


You ate the man! I could come up with some different examples where you certainly expect others to do their job without actually understand it, but I won’t cause you are cool :)

However this is not the world I personally want to live in. I want everyone to be able to focus on what they have passion to, get real experts in that area and help others with that. And some tools to help figure out who you have better chances to trust to.

I don’t want to live in the world where everyone must know how to get sparks off of the stones and hunt a rabbit for a full day in order to not starve, I want humanity to maintain their progress :)


There is all required info out there about medicine. When you break your hand, you should fix it yourself or you are just too lazy in this free world


Life is stupid. Launching missiles into residential buildings is stupid. Living in a “tyrants country” and paying taxes supporting genocide and doing nothing to prevent it is stupid.

Unfortunately its impossible to chose where you get born and what your stupid neighbors are. And getting away a ~600k sq km country by repositioning it on the world map is also impossible unfortunately

Thats why some cultures and their bearers are destined to be hated, for coming decades its rusians


The question is now how to manage the thing that you have (conveniently) omitted - those who control your avatar’s data (thus actually deciding what you are permitted to). There is no solution for that today, only some hopium for something that does not really viable at first sight


There is no rusophonia because phobos is something you are afraid of, there is only rusia hatred.

This is how any business with rusia eventually unfolds https://video.nostr.build/7111c38f5c0275c01f7429e217e94db25731b4c966e335ec9c26a2b9f79b1989.mp4


What makes you think so? Do you have any state for that? I personally haven’t yet backed my key ls up from damus yet even though I consider myself an experienced and interested user


What prevents damus removing option to export your private keys?


Keep in mind it may just be a formal reason and actual is “overqualified” which is pretty standard


Life is a total random


How many wix users
Know what password manager is?


This is wrong, doing own research in every area prevents humanity progress and is in general dangerous. Thats why we have social systems of trust often times accompanied by a set of regulations. Yet of course every professional who dedicates their life to specific area is reassured that everyone MUST be a specialist on this area, because thinks its easy for everyone since its easy for them (like you think its easy to DYOR consuming information on internet)

- when suddenly your stomach starts to burn with pain do you DYOR or blindly trust doctors its appendicitis that must be removed immediately and believe they have experience since they work in the hospital and you don’t have to check their knowledge?

- when you want to repair your car do you DYOR on what employees do and how good and you 100% understand each part of the process or you believe reputation institute and let them do their work?

- when you buy something from supermarkets, so you DYOR that food is not poisoned, fresh and actually is what is claims to be or you used to take govt licenses for granted and forget some professionals already did research for you

There are too many areas in life that you trust somebody and don’t DYOR yet you think internet is exceptional area, well you are not alone, every professional in his area believes the same :)


Thanks Paul :)


I never believed in saying “if a person is genius in one, he is a genius in everything”

But getting older I start believing in “if a person is load and stupid in one, he is stupid in everything”


Totally agree that nostr is a 90% a social challenge rather than technical.

And one way to solve it is for people to change their views and expectations on social networks

However, I personally think their is another solution - keep things as close as possible to what they are right now in order to avoid having to change people minds and just do what we have now but slightly better and a bit differently

I think changing people minds is impossible but making nostr look more like a standard social network is not a popular opinion here :)


So whats your expectations then? Doesn’t sound too positive, does it?


I only see hopium that everything will just work because good enthusiasts would implement best client software once for free that doesn’t require operational costs and design the network in the way that it only requires couple of thousands of very cheap relays (5-100$ a month) to  operate relays which were already implanted. And in this way relay operational costs would be cover by the same enthusiasts running tor relays or lightning nodes

I don’t think its viable and I can’t imagine any system in social network (in terms of what a regular user expects from the term “social network” today) that doesn’t mostly exist off of ads

Do you expect every regular non technical user to pay some fee for using a social network? Like twitter is trying to achieve and fails?


What other options do you see to keep clients developing and relays at least operating?


Yeah, its complex indeed and I don’t even see yet all the necessary features. Finishing core logic soon and gonna start UI, maybe it would be better for you to think about it once PoC ready

Yeah, thats for advanced companies/services I’d say. The idea is:

1) deploy this service (relaynet) and granularly decide which events from which events you want to save to which destination (all using UI, no code)

2) next create your services that will sort those events somehow (say, AI/ML processing or group by pubkey), thats outside of what I’m doing, at least some code should be developed here

3) when you have different sets of events you want to store on different relays, deploy saltivka relay which will soon have subrelays feature and upload your events to desired once using its API

The easiest example if you want to grab events from 3 relays, split them by languages using AI/ML and deliver to different relays say en.saltivka.org, es.saltivka.org etc


So there are basically 2 most important use cases:
1) being able to monitor relays on the network you are interested from zero upto entire network bringing functionality similar to nostr.watch

2) collect and deduplicate events and stream them to destination of your choice, say database of kafka etc


Imagine a tool that lets you add a relay. You then setup different settings for that relay i.e default filters, should it get latest events, should it scan for past events? Should it scan for past events once again once all already scanned, should it provide auth by default or by some rule…. And many more

Once you check that relay as active it begins to process all events from this relay. This tool ensures every event will only be processed ones. When processed - it populates internal database with relays found in event (say kind 10002 from nip65, p tags, e tags etc), which by default are inactive but you can make them be active as soon as they added

This tool also lets you monitor reconnects, errors, logs etc #relaynet


How is it counted? For instance, when I need to test something in a new cliebt I click “signup skip skip” and get a new user. Ive prolly got like thousand of these - do they all count?


Do I understand correctly that this is an HTTP API with search capabilities and not nostr native websocket NIP-50 compatible with NIP-01 filters?


SoD


Thanks for very detailed explanation, but I still don’t see the answer to my simple question. I can rephrase: “do you want the majority of population to use nostr or do you only want people with the same vision as yours?”

Is this a question you refuse to answer?

In case you want to answer, I can follow it up with next question to make it clear why I’m asking: “if it happens you want everyone to use nostr, then do you want to adapt nostr to their needs or make them change their world views to embrace new nostreality?”

And lastly, if you want to also answer this one too and you are also realist as I am and don’t believe that you can change minds of billions of people then the question is “how we all build tools for others to build their own social networks with bans and whores in order to attract billions of people and keep those networks interoperability?”

P.S. it doesn’t matter at all how everyone understands “what nostr is”: is it a new protocol, a protocol over websockets, http or tcp, does it include nips other than nip1… the ONLY thing matters - is what community WANTS it to be and in what direction it builds it.

As an example, see “bitcoin”, “ethereum”
and “cryptocurrency” — definitions which often times used interchangeably and there are a lot of debates on what is what. But the communities visions are what actually make them different. Ver/Write also believed their definitions of bitcoin were true at sole point. Doesn’t matter at all. Community and vision. What is your vision?


Sent


I still don’t see what you are debating against since I’ve asked you a core question to this and you hwve refused to answer.

But I can do it again. Do you want to build nostr to be worldwide social network for everyone or do you want it to be another niche tool for “free speech absolutists”?


I’ll just leave it here and consider that the problem is in my understanding of english. Sorry, wasn’t going to hurt your feelings https://image.nostr.build/9951c6c488ff7d9834ddff230be7f4d137bf2f6ecf73122f3927666a2829d173.jpg


It seems to me like you want to check initial post or this convo and see that nostr:npub1qqqqqqyz0la2jjl752yv8h7wgs3v098mh9nztd4nr6gynaef6uqqt0n47m is against providing users with freedoms to block, mute, ban, moderate etc


Yeap, I’m pretty new, only since 1997 so yeah I have much homework to do, thanks for patience


You can stop genocide promotion on internet. Not make it disappear to the extent that it doesn’t exist at all, but stop it so that it makes almost no real impact. That is how todays social media work.

Unfortunately along with stopping genocide on internet (and other bad stuff) they also block a lot of good content/people because they only care about their interests, along with stopping inappropriate

Ans if you are not satisfied with those things (you probably are if you are on nostr) ultimately you have 2 ways:

1) try to do it differently hence better
2) assume its better to do nothing than doing something imperfectly

Point 2) is childish, naive and amateur. I would be very glad if it would work, but I am realist. I’m here for 1)


So you understand that nostr can’t work in the way you want it to work if it once gets popular and you don’t want to so anything about it? Brilliant! Is it even legal?


PoW doesn’t remotely relate to the issue discussed in this thread unfortunately


No, currently its only supposed that on nostr everything is public and free and you can only adjust what you see and interact with


I got it, thanks for clarifying your position. I don’t share your views on this specific topic regarding elections, but it doesn’t worth debating on it either imo

Unfortunately, there are a lot of Ukrainians, those who pretend to be ones or those who pretend to support Ukraine who see other solutions rather than stopping rusia and returning entire Ukrainian sovereign territory back, glad you are not one of them :)


Today mute/block alternatives are
implemented on clients (apps) level. Some clients (i.e. Damus) may allow you to hide spammers content. It will not prevent from others seeing his content under your posts though


My personal opinion is that canceled elections is very bad. However from my point of view I have no idea how it would be possible to run the elections in current situation - there are too much issues unfortunately. I also assume that if we try to run elections, it would be very far from perfect and it would greatly destabilize society.

So I personally don’t see any alternatives. And I disappointed with this decision in the same way as I disappointed with the fact that Ukraine has to fight this wad — its all very bad but there are no alternatives

So I’m just trying to understand - you want govt change in order to make proper decisions in military etc to fight this war better. Or you want it to change in order for Ukraine to freeze this war again. Or you want Ukraine to become a part of rusia.

Your position is completely not clear out of your posts and looks only like some provocative clickbait right now


Which one? Your first note says that its very bad there will be no elections, which I very much agree on. But it does not suggest any alternative in such a complicated question, what am I missing?


Move on to where? To become The Ukrainian State in rusia federation?

Or do you believe that elections will instantly help to win the war?


Ok, end of zelenskiy era, whats next?


No end to what? What are the alternatives?


The best what outbox model can achieve (if implemented extremely and exceptionally well, which requires huge amount of man-hours) — is to become a niche technology for “ultra censorship resistance guys” (which it will unlikely to become because there are hundreds of other things needed to become censorship resistant)


The goal is the same - make nostr decentralized social network and not decentralized personal blogs and not decentralized telegram channels

So first, you admit that you decided to moderate content even though you are pro free speech absolutist? Seems like you also want moderation :) its just like you personally call it anti-spam. Other people would call it topics. Others - hatespeech-free, but basically everyone WANTS moderation. To different degrees however, depending on their lifetime experience and needs

Could you answer 2 questions please:
1) do you agree that if nostr gets really popular then different kinds of undesirable content (in your case you call it spam) would grow exponentially until nostr dies or you have different vision?

2) if you agree with 1) then whats your solution — siloing with closest friends in the same way we all have telegram chats for 3-7 people? What other options?

Oh, forgot to ask, since many people don’t think like that — do you want nostr to attract millions and millions of regular users or you like it as a niche community it is right now more?


Lets say I have unlimited LLM capacity and can create any content I want in any volume.

I send it to every relay, to produce millions of replies, and replies of replies … per note, and also produce billions of notes using different pubkeys connected in nets. Basically, a super spam, but not distinguishable from a real human

And in todays nostr terms all you can do is either:
1) manually follow your friends who you know directly and talk to them only. You can even hardly include friends of friends into this scope because it will be way too difficult to handle. If you bring private relays its basically the same - manually approved and very small community
2) interact with 99.9999% of generated content which adjusts to you and, say, is all about indirectly hinting you a message like “people who are named {your name} usually die 15 years earlier and leave no legacy”

So is this nostr you want to build? Or do you believe that since today nostr content is mostly fun to you then in future for some reason spammers and other bad actors won’t abuse it by some unknown reason if it becomes popular?


So you assume nostr telegram group is more private than your personal profile on nostr? Like, your own “wall” of posts, right? Like if you add a note and you see a person dedicates their life to saying shit about this post every day for 5 years straight and convince others black actually white, you must be fine with that because its free speech and if you don’t like it then nostr is not for you?

And what about free speech absolutism then? I thought free speech absolutism is when either any speech is free or not, but it appears somewhere free speech absolutists are ok with moderation, cancellation and other forma of censoring. Btw, on tg each individual user can also “mute” every other user who they don’t like. But for some reason those with permissions decide what is free and what is not

I think everyone WANTS moderation of different sorts, especially when we talk about real scale, real spammers etc and not what nostr faces right now - there are more root notes right now than replies meaning mostly people talk to themselves. But some people still haven’t found out which type of moderation they prefer and believe “no moderation is better than bad moderation”

Nostr can really change things but all those screaming “embrace mute”, “no algo”, “free speech absolutism” etc just because there is no technical solution for this yet — can really make it stop


We have a nostr telegram group. Whats your opinion on why does it get heavily moderated, if it doesn’t make sense and those people building nostr should probably know all you mention here much better than the rest?


Unpopular opinion here but those 2 points will never interest a regular user

Most likely users will follow creators. How to attract creators is a whole lot different topic

Regular users are interested in either content or their friends already there

Bitcoin payments and interoperability also not those things which attract regular users


There is no quantum computer threat in foreseeable future, not in out lifetimes for sure imo


wss://relay.nos.today
wss://relay.noswhere.com
wss://saltivka.org


Search and open API is great. Unfortunate though that most of nostr community view evil servers as centralizing and are just going to find out search and open api data traversal is not viable client-side


Its not only nostr.band that supports search. Its noswhere.com, nos.today and saltivka.org at least


Yeah, definitely, idiots on nostr is a good sign


Yeah, you definitely know better than me who lived through all those events, thanks for educating

Twitter retards on nostr, more each day, its probably a good thing 👍


Tbh, I don’t know why I even finished reading this and even conclusions from linked article after “US drawn rusia into the Ukraine conflict” lies with 3 red flags in a single sentence, but…

1) unfortunately bitcoin doesn’t fix wars
2) even if we assume bitcoin long term fixes everything (hundreds of years from
Now? Thousands? Millions?) then we still have to somehow live today and bitcoin even in theory can’t fix wars according to this flawed “theory” unless EVERYONE switches to bitcoin and gets addicted to its infinite advantages
3) US is not the biggest villain on Earth even if it makes things a lot easier to believe in for many not involved people. But if you believe that all problems come from US you can justify that your country is ruled by hamas terrorists or rusian imperialists, you can just say “fuck it, its not my nation and my govt, its not my decisions (or their lack of) made it possible — no, its all because US invented fiat and abuses it, so I’m just another victim, I can’t do anything and just waiting for bitcoin/jesus/allah/messiah to fix this


I stopped at 2 months before because its also 2 month into now. I could also use 1 day before if you prefer. Why? Because 1 day before was the last day of some agreements were working, and they were broken solely by one side.

If you want to go in past more than the last checkpoint of an agreement, then you can pick arbitrary date, what for example rusia is doing with Ukraine right now — they chose a date where USSR existed and want it back. They didn’t chose times of Rus with a center in Kyiv, because it is inconvenient for their war. Same goes for any war — either you play by international laws established with UN after WW2 (which are very far from perfect unfortunately) or you can do whatever you want, you are a terrorist short-term and long term you either a past evil (like Nazi Germany) or one who rewrites the history (what rusia aims for for instance, and HAMAS supports
It with)

Anyway, I’m waiting your “suggestions” for HAMAS, do you suggest to let them leave with what they did and encourage to continue? Are you sure they stop if no Israel exist close to them?


This is what you can’t understand because you are blessed to only hear such news on internet and not even on examples of people you know directly probably. If your child gets murdered by an aggressor you don’t care at all how many aggressor supporters have to be killed to stop the aggressor, to have some sort of “justice” or “revenge” (because justice does not exist, if someone already committed violence and killed a person there is nothing in this world that can back this person to life) and its just an aggressors manipulation in this case to force everyone believe that AFTER aggressor committed a crime, “opponent” has to stick to some moral ground.

Your suggestion of course is just a stupid joke. But lets pretend it has some ground. Ok. Its almost 2 months after Israel started retaliation. And killed a lot of people, thats obviously bad. But 2 months before 7 October, how many people did Israel killed? It seems to me this is closer to zero. So why do you omit your brilliant “suggestions” to HAMAS ? What and more importantly who is gonna do something about them?


So you think sanity is to kill just roughly the same number of people in response right? And its also not insanity to start wars in the first place, right?

You see, philosophical problem that commenters on internet can’t see is that there is no such thing in laws or moral to answer “is it bad to do bad things in response to bad things?” For now, aggressors all over the world manipulate this drawback to force victims to “behave good” in face of others doing whatever they want

Also, internet commenters fail to see is numbers of deaths and ways of deaths and anything else is completely irrelevant to people who were already killed. Or for people whos relatives were killed

And jfyi calling to calm things down and “negotiate”, “freeze conflicts” etc - always only help aggressors to keep doing aggressors things if you learn history


Websites that listed in your profile say otherwise — that you are directly related to software industry and you make money off of it. You are skilled in the area of expertise which less than 1-3% of people are working in. And it happened that this industry today attracts a lot of investments thus making everybody related much more financially stable.

Thats how reality looks like. 100% of population could never be a part of this industry since there would be no one who produces food and water for us, who builds houses and cleans toilets. We are privileged because of how things work right now and it may very well end up suddenly every day.

So the fact that you are able to leave cities and live closer to nature is a consequence of your exceptional skills in area that is profitable. It has nothing to do with bitcoin.

If a regular school teacher today starts using bitcoin, nothing at all changes in their life, completely nothing.


And you think those rat races happen because people chose fiat instead of bitcoin and not because like 99% of people “in bitcoin” are related to software development industry that experiences extreme growth over last 4 decades, right?


Because it goes against the core idea of nostr - decentralization. In general, currently community consensus is that you have to learn without that feature


And what is the reason for that, how do you think?


I thought nostr already won because its a protocol


So what was it?:)


>>> without endorsement or approval of The Tor Project.

Communism, socialism, authoritarian or “hoho, great guys fighting for greater good <3”?


Sounds amazing but where you buy your elixir of youth to have such a long life?😂


What protocols are centralized then?


Well its “AAAAAAAA…” in Morse. Maybe author died in wow hardcore?


I think for the list of relays you manully produce, it should be like this per relay:
- respond always
- ignore always
- prompt
- auto (let client decide, for instance only auth when kind4 requested etc how some clients have it now)

Also probably the same types of settings shouls be applies for “other relays that happen to be requested” in case of outbox or similar

It would also be great to let user know when and why AUTH is requested by relay. And regarding WHY maybe it makes sense to consider adding it to NIP so that relays could notify why they need auth - is it just a regular hey here is a challenge if you want to AUTH or something critical may be missing without. Maybe relays could add a link to policy (nip-11 seem not to cover this granularly enough)

Also what is important for client auth imo - is to save challenge at let user auth at any given point in time later, to not force user take immediate action and to not break UX because relay sends it before client can react


Currently I’m planning to make it possible for users to register in old-school way on the platform and create their subrelays in order to allow non-tech, lees-tech and tech users manage topical/community/private relays.

This could partially be viewed as algorithms — you create wss://fiatjaf.saltivka.org and you can either manually store the best memes you find to this relay, or you can hire a team who does this or you use AI/ML for that

Once you have content you think valuable on this relay you start promoting it and have oldshool way of monetizing ads but without platform as middleman

Those subrelays must have granular configurable access policies. I wouldn’t say AUTH is a must for this feature right now but long-term of course its essential


Wow, I looked there 3 times and I first seen it in source code but only was able to see it in UI after your post 😂 thanks!

However, this setting seem to have no effect and it does not persist through reloads in any browser: safari, ff, chrome on mac


Btw here what is says Logging In. But connection is not authenticated on relay side


Also, briefly looking at coracle source I see there is a setting to whether reply to AUTH automatically or not but it seems I’m missing it in settings


I tested it today, added my relay and connection was not successful.My relay always sends AUTH on connection.  I haven’t debugged it yet though.


You would get ~$23,000 assuming:
1) you are 30 yo
2) avg advertisement is 30 seconds
3) you spent 10% of your life watching ads


Twitter exists because humans do human things


Again, hope it just me over pessimistic.

But I’m looking at my personal experience at nostr and its not comparable to what was on twitter at all, not by quantity but by quality, I have to watch tiktok after deleting twitter :)

I look at nostr global stats and they are very disappointing

I look at your profile and see you are ex relay operator :(

I still don’t see even a hint to people working on incentives to run a relay - I don’t ask for incentives already, I don’t even see people who think its important :)

So yeah, there are some vibe happening at making twitter clones and rewriting internet to work on a single mobile device, but in general it seems to me there is rather nothing to be happy about long term


I don’t watch his presentations, its enough to see such a clickbait text.

Nostr protocol is as permissionless as websockets protocol or http protocol or tcp/ip protocol — it just passes data around in a specific format

Notably, http and websocket protocols host facebook and jp morgan which most of the people consider centralized.

The way that nostr introduced specific API format to build apps is not an innovation. The fact that people decided to attach lnurl to each post conveniently and branded it under cool name - is awesome but also doesn’t bring anything new

Only if developers AND users who use bitcoin untie around this idea and this protocol could make it censorship resistant, permissionless and help bitcoin adoption

Simple test, if “the nostr protocol” would be not websocket but http would it change things dramatically? If today FB added possibility to zap for citizens of Vatican would it dramatically improve the way bitcoin transfers are working today?

Bitcoin is great. Nostr is awesome. None of the is mainstream. Both have huge potential. No need to clickbait and manipulate people in order to… idk what?  Attract newbies? Improve own followers base?


I wouldn’t say you CAN’T solve social problem without ability to communicate online

Don’t you find it interesting so called “social problems” were solved much better and much more times before internet invention?


And this is cool! But it has nothing to do with “nostr is the future of bitcoin payments”.

I just hate when people who promote bitcoin, where often times values are “stay humble”, “DYOR”, “low time preference” — use the dirtiest click bait tricks from regular social media just to sound more cool. Its wrong. Its lies

Nostr didn’t change anything in terms of bitcoin payments not it could change anything with those payments in foreseeable future

Nostr is great and disruptive but we should not spread straight lies in favor of some hype.

Nostr is payments agnostic. It doesn’t have any connections to bitcoin except for the fact that many early nostr devs happen to be also bitcoin enthusiasts


So you seriously consider about some rebel internet system. And you start with examples of Iran, China and Korea. Given that it seems in Korean democracy won free internet a decade ago — don’t you think you are trying to solve social problem with technical solutions?

P.S Or am I wrong about Korean example? Is there something special regarding theie internet except for one of the best cyber sportsmen?


Nostr is the only place with zaps because in other places lightning transactions are called differently :)

Do you know how zaps work? Take lnurl and put it to your website - lightning users would be able to zap your website. Print your poem and stick it on a tree and add lnurl qr code there - lightning users would be able yo zap you

How is nostr different here?


I’m really hope its just me seeing tons of hopium instead of real solid preparation :)