Well no, because they won’t let us open any new gold mines which was my point..

What good is gold in the ground? You’ve gotta dig that shit up, refine it, and get it to market and you can’t do that when government is denying new mines because some retard heard the “spirits of the ancestors” 

 Is “looted” the right word? 

 Sure but they’re not going to put anything of scale together. Ironically that would require further breakdown of society.

Whilst you still have “a government” they’ll be efficient in stealing from the most successful - only if it completely break down will the mining be properly efficient because then the mines will be self-sufficiently protecting themselves from government. 

 Before your dad bought his first house for 12 gummy bears and a yo-yo, back in your great great grandpa’s day when people were still using real money, Australia had a massive real estate bubble and collapse that took 3 generations to recover.

But because none of those who experienced that pain are still alive, 99.9% of the population have no idea of this history and can’t imagine it will ever happen again. https://i.nostr.build/ovGKAqBdhidOpplQ.jpg  

 What are you doing with loaded Opendimes on a random keyring?! Put them in your safe like a normal person 

 You took stuff out of your safe to move house rather than taking your safe to your new place yourself?!

This is getting more retarded by the minute. 

 I don’t think it will feel like a bull market until we go and stay above $100k but once we do, that’s the new floor.

It’s going to be interesting to see how yanks handle the resistance there compared to those of from British colonies. I feel like we’ve got an advantage from cricket knowing how hard 100 as a barrier is.

But yes it feels like a convergence is coming. We get the good first and then we all get to suck eggs and deal with this shitshow in earnest.

People should think about where they want to be and what they want to be doing when that hits because I don’t think you’re going to be so free to jump on a plane with 12 words in your head at that point.. 

 The establishment won’t go down until at minimum a few hundred of them are guillotined or hanged.

That’s the flip side of “you can’t vote your way out of this” that nobody wants to reckon with. 

The way out is blood. Theirs.

It is in reminding parasites that they are flesh and bone and no-one is ready for that so you need to work out what the tyranny will look like and if you can handle it because the way out is behind thousands of people risking their own lives to show these people and I don’t see it coming.

You mightn’t like the options on my “the US doesn’t rule the world” map but I would challenge you - how many of those places have you spent time in to know the reality on the ground versus judging from what you think you know of them from your Western propagandised lens?

Remember we supposed live in a “liberal democracy” but the reality on the ground doesn’t match what it says on the tin.. 

 Client Devs don’t want to give users the ability to filter on NIP05s. It could be solved with that but apparently blocking whole domains would be worse than all of us getting spammed non-stop. 

 Let them try.

Then it’s on NIP05 providers to keep their service clean - not too much to ask for paid service providers.

Then they have to fallback to their own domains for NIP05 which is cost and friction they can’t keep up for long before we block them all. 

 Your prediction was end of 2023 😅 - nostr:note1xqtnp087w8dqezkawsnqth6p5gst4zz25svkdacj4s7vufpyh4fsu5r5lp

This cut feels like it’s been telegraphed unlike any other though. Not sure they’re worried about taming inflation either way, there’s a spendathon coming regardless of the election outcome. 

 Early March 2023 you joined.

Nostr.band is really good for search (except I wish @brugeman would Nick off that fuckin Nostrin bot which spams results). 

Use the advanced search for date ranges which he implemented after I requested. Search your npub and a word you would have used in the post and you should be able to find what you’re looking for. I regularly use it to reference my old notes but I have exceptional recall which helps a lot. https://i.nostr.build/aP83iHFu1hQZU2xD.jpg  

 Will check and report back 🤙 

 Aus always had a unique relationship with Britain. A lot of us have roots there.

They were always the older brother even if we felt like we got the better end of the deal living out here than back in ol’ Blighty.

I thought you might be ok after Brexit. Then my country went psychotic during Covid and you seemed to get through that better than us but everything else was fukt there before here.

I think the Irish will save themselves. The Poms will resist but it’s too far gone to be saved now.

Love the ULEZ bladerunners but that they need to exist is the real problem.

Think you’re pretty much as fukt as us tbh mate. The loicensing will continue until you go spill some blood and there seems to be as little appetite for that there as there is here (ie none).

This sums it up well: https://i.nostr.build/zIojx8olvuUKfxKY.jpg  

 They wouldn’t.

Historically they didn’t either.

Understand, we’re resetting culture back to what it was. 20-somethings will live with their family until marriage. 

This boomer idea of kicking kids out at 18 can die with those sick cunts. They are cancer and their ideas even moreso. 

 Could be a pineapple 

 This is super gay Tuur. 

 If you get any gayer I’m pretty sure it will be considered rape. 

 @Steve just found a treasure trove of arses for you to caption bro 

 No no.

You’re applying your Western logical brain to a note from a Latina. 

That explains the whole gap here.

You don’t have Latina brain. You’re not an inner Scorpio. Don’t expect this shit to make sense to you, let @Svetski dig himself out of the hole he got himself into with his missus showing her arse to the world for 443 Sats. 

 That’s just your inner Scorpio talking 

 I wouldn’t touch anything that angry man is involved in with a 30 foot pole.

Greg Foss is likely a pedo and anti-hero. 

 Cheers Geoff.

I was donating to Will before he had Damus Purple.

I’m not here to discuss how I can fork his open source codebase to make my own version of Damus that suits me.

I’m here telling him how he’s going to keep Sats flowing from people like me who gave enough of a shit about both #nostr and #damus to help fund this place whilst goobers like you watched on so you could become net recipients of Zaps. 

 Cheers Geoff.

I think I spend enough time outside where I have time to think shit through.

Come back when you have something constructive to say on the topic of client devs refusing to provide tools to paying Users who want to control their own experience rather than outsource it to client devs. https://i.nostr.build/ROCxMiBuNZ9wlpYh.jpg  

 No idea tbh. They went through a big development curve early but I couldn’t tell you anything they’ve done in the past 6 months. 

 It’s relevant for the User experience.

If you use Damus and you don’t know what this little purple man does then you just get to suffer with ReplyGuy. ReplyGuy doesn’t care about your Damus Purple subscription, he just automatically spams your feed and little purple man is your only defense that you as a paid User of Damus needs to know exist to utilise.

You don’t get an option to filter users by NIP05 or lack thereof. You get the little purple man who is grey unless Will tells you what setting him Purple actually does. https://i.nostr.build/iAWqQRTG9pcvQmY9.jpg  

 Thanks for your concern bro

You can revert to your regular self righteous cunt status now and no one will give a fuck about anything you say like usual 🤙 

 Congrats Relai team!  

Now you’ve just got to get people to car about Swiss Ice Hockey and your sponsorship will be golden! 

 Saylor is a BitcoinBug.

He wants NGU and that’s it. He’s not ready for the externalities that come with that. 

 Did you listen to his discussion with Saifedean?

Anyone who understands Bitcoin would disagree with the gist of your statement. 

 No-one tells anyone at this level anything.

The problem with that is Vitalik is retarded and needs to be told a whole bunch of shit.

If Satoshi revealed himself tomorrow and did that the next day BTC would be down 50%. 

This retardation is already baked in for mETH. 

 Focus on relays would be a nice touch for Damus. 

I’d like better control over NIP05 followings but more could be achieved faster with relay filtering. 

 You and @Vitor Pamplona have now said this.

So how?

If they’ve got to use their own domains then that’s friction and cost. 

If they want to use a provider then it’s on the provider to filter rather than the client. 

 Ok.

Force Users into paid services (from 1 Sat) or allow Users to ban whole service providers is the choice.

I’ll take blocking whole service providers 100/100 times. 1 Sat is friction but when we’re left with at best WoT, then 1 Sat is nothing.

If the service provider can’t filter npubs then what the fuck are they charging Sats for?! Useless providers get 0 Sats rather than 1.

You don’t have to control everything Will. It’s ok to palm off certain functionality.

Right now your disallowing me from banning any NIP05 providers by not giving me this filtering which Id much rather have than not. 

 This is not for you to worry about.

By all means document your concern. If the change fucks up you are covered.

But I don’t use Damus because of your thought processes on what filters are best. I didn’t even know about some filters until 2 days ago so how are you the best person to control this when you can’t even distribute info to your paid users like me?

If I want to block a NIP05 wholesale then that’s on me.

You disallowing this because you think you know better when you can’t convey functionality to your paid users is pretty stupid mate. 

 This should be obvious but I’m not spending my time on Nostr so you have more ability to censor the network on my behalf.

My ideal is you have zero censorship capability and I have 100% censorship capability *within my own feed*.

So yes; I want everyone banning everyone clientside. I want that clearly and directly, not algorithmically.

I’d rather someone accidentally censor me directly than them leave it up to a client dev to interpret their intention.

Why are you interfering with censorship? I want to control censorship - I never chose to give you that power. I don’t care what your opinions of my own censorship list are, that’s my list and you are irrelevant to it. 

 I did years ago when I was getting in to game theory. Seems basic in hindsight but I definitely enjoyed plumbing those depths generally speaking 

 Who is building the zap version of Polymarket? https://i.nostr.build/qKHqEAHn0m2SYtxe.jpg  

 I thought it was great: nostr:note1z5g36cxhpggxctucqt4gpx4phcdel5dhqrwa0y6xt8nj9vy459ns3h8qfw

Saylor doesn’t want to reckon in earnest with the reality of 21M - he’s a BitcoinBug so he wants all the benefits of NGU whilst refusing to acknowledge how radically different the world will look because he can’t envision anything outside of statism.

This isn’t fiat where having the most means you’re the most powerful or have the best knowledge. This is Bitcoin where the rules are fixed and you either play within those bounds or you find out. 

 What part of Saylor’s argument is more compelling for you? 

 I think the banks will offer bitcoin yield products too, but that wasn’t the point of disagreement. 

Saif’s point was that without a BTC printer they will fail because the yield has to come from the fixed supply of 21M. There is no way around that.

You can’t just say “well the banks have the backing of the Government”. That doesn’t actually mean anything because no Government controls the Bitcoin ledger; the banks will be forced into default and no amount of IOUs will be accepted in lieu of UTXOs.

The fiat financial system isn’t going anywhere soon but Bitcoin has very specific rules and they apply for you, me, Saif, Saylor, Jamie Dimon, JPMC, and the US Gov all alike.

Sure some will touch the stove, but they’re going to get burned. 

 Honestly I don’t think we want this to happen even if all Bitcoin HODLers would become wealthier as a result.

It would be like what Soros did to the Pound crossed with the Treaty of Versailles - talking about National-level financial enslavement of whole peoples by Bitcoin. 

Absolute supervillain stuff. 

 Trying scrolling down on the seemingly empty notification, it will pop in 

 Try up and then down (and keep going down)

I know it sounds like a 90s video console cheat but it works for me. 

 Find others willing to argue with Saylor’s statism - I’ll listen. 

 Opening 30 seconds: “Now let’s go back to 5000 years of history”.

To what history?

Some places allowed usury, some didn’t. Some did, then didn’t. Some didn’t, then did.

There’s no one size fits all for deflation and Bitcoin is a new paradigm. 

What’s his base case aligned to 2024? 

 Ok Walker. Imma listen to this tomorrow based on what you say. Jeff better be clear in his anti-statism or I’m holding you accountable. 

 True. I shouldn’t have said duration mismatch is the *only* way because Nik is right, collecting Sats fees for lightning liquidity is a yield and operates within the system without violating 21M.

Saylor’s discussing it from a capital perspective though. Borrowing money for a car or a house.

So say Bitcoin hits $13M per Saylor’s projection and a teenager wants to borrow $100k for a used car (inflation is a bitch) - that’s 769,231 Sats for a car.

In this world tx fees are going to be WAY higher. Realistically we’re heading to 500-1000 Sats per vbyte - that’s another 6.5%-13% cost on capital in tx fees.

People aren’t going to pay that kind of fee + interest to do this on the base layer to buy a used car..

Lightning or future L2s are the only feasible way to transact $100k at $13M Bitcoin. We could tack on additional lightning fees to represent the yield but then its not contained within Bitcoin any more, the car and the loan are outside of Bitcoin’s property rights enforcement which is not a knock on Nik’s idea, merely pointing out this doesn’t solve the yield either.

So if we can’t get around the 21M - where does the yield come from?.. 

WHERE DOES THE YIELD COME FROM IN A FIXED SUPPLY ASSET THAT IS CONSTANTLY APPRECIATING IN VALUE MICHAEL! 

 Saylor tried to use history to support his claim because there has also been lending on “sound money” at interest in the past. 

But gold was never fixed in supply, the stockpile always grew so getting away with the duration mismatch to pay a yield is easier in that system, even though it inevitably led to rehypothecation and then they only got away with that because self-custody at scale is impossible in gold without becoming a target for violent appropriation, and modern economies required greater velocity.

Interesting that Allen and Saif have both studied Islamic banking and reached their conclusion that equity will be the path forward whilst Saylor apparently hasn’t so couldn’t grok this point. 

 Those fees are generated because you’ve locked up your liquidity in a lightning channel for a time and taken on some risk and cost to do so - thats the typical Austrian justification for interest too.

So it depends on how pedantic with semantics you want to be. You’re probably technically correct, but in practice it amounts to the same thing. 

 Yield doesn’t exclusively come from the fact there is counterparty risk though. There is cost to deferring consumption, and providing the security and matchmaking so whilst banks needed vaults and guards for security (you could do this yourself - private credit has always been a thing), Bitcoin relies on channels which also need security and the matchmaking is routing. That’s why the Austrian definition is broader than purely having counterparty risk and considers duration and other costs for why interest is not inherently bad.

Price appreciation isn’t yield because 1 BTC = 1 BTC, but 1 BTC in a Lightning channel should over time = >1 BTC with a risk that it = <1 BTC. I agree it’s fees in the purest sense rather than “yield” but I feel like this is semantics and not really productive. 

Bitcoin doesn’t map one-to-one with legacy concepts so when we apply them they don’t always fit neatly and that’s a big part of where people go wrong. It’s why Saylor is getting it wrong. We have to work within the rules of Bitcoin, imposing outside ideas on it only helps us in the abstract but if our ideas don’t exist within those rules then they’re rough proxies at best and this is an example of that. 

 “You can't issue yield in bitcoin and issuing yield in fiat is just more of the same shit.”

Correct, we know banks can’t issue yield in BTC because of the fixed 21M, but they can’t issue it in fiat either. 

Think about it - banks would print fiat which would be dilutive of the numerator against the fixed supply denominator meaning the real yield would actually be negative against the price appreciation of the underlying Bitcoin.. No-one is going to risk that, they’ll just sell what BTC they need rather than take on counterparty risk for fiat liquidity.

This is why they cant back the dollar/peg with Bitcoin either. I mean they can and probably will try, but it will constantly break because fiat must be inflationary for the system to work. 

And a system where the peg breaks frequently is revealed as pointless pretty quickly, people will just flood into BTC which.. further destroys the peg..

Absolute scarcity is a bitch. Humanity has never experienced it before and nothing in the fiat system is ready for it. 

 Because Saylor is a statist BitcoinBug.

He can see that Bitcoin will succeed and destroy fiat which he will benefit from with NGU, but he can’t bring himself to accept that means the destruction of Statism as well. 

 Saylor doesn’t say. Presumably from the fiat system because he definitely knows about the 21M hard cap. He doesn’t want to reckon with the reality though and gets annoyed that Saif holds the line of rationality. 

 You’re right. If some banking system tries to open this up it will end up being destroyed. It’s a Soros/Pound attack vector with 1000X leverage - nightmare stuff. 

 Anyone who thinks Saylor won this argument is retarded. Sorry @Bender but that goes for you too.

You don’t have to like Saifedean but he will tell you the truth in a way no-one else will **because** he’s an ideologue who has actually thought this shit through.

When you disagree with Saif you’re not disagreeing with him necessarily but rather you’re disagreeing with the proper application of Austrian economics and that’s a recipe to get your face ripped off.

He’s so ideological he’ll put theory ahead of his own ego. I think he gets a bigger kick out of being right than he does making money which puts him in my
“Won’t be a Billionaire” bucket but whilst he keeps on being right. 

 You’re right, no-one won this argument. I was waiting for Saif to bury Saylor and he just didn’t. He was far too polite.

But Saif was on the right side of the argument.

You’re lucky that you’re still in #Bitcoin but you’ve already reached your Sats peak and will never get to the same level again.

I don’t mean that as a shame but rather as a caution for others to not go buying houses with corn. 

 Absolutely. I’m glad you used corn for your family rather than some degen stuff. That is what it’s there for after all. 

Think you could have improved your timing but life and the world moves on regardless of our timings. 

 There was a NIP written for lightning polls but went nowhere.

https://github.com/toadlyBroodle/nips/blob/master/69.md 

 Everyone could use them but client devs haven’t implemented so they can’t. If they’re a feature in only one client then few will use them. 

 It’s possible people don’t want to zap polls but other clients don’t see them from Amethyst Users so a massive chunk of the network doesn’t know when they’re up - makes it hard to judge.

I paid the bounty for this dev, it was intended to give nostr another usecase for zapping and make it costly to try to sway polls but I’d rather have SOME polls in every client even if not with zaps than none. 

 That’s on you to better educate your heirs.

You’re looking for the cop out that solves problems on your behalf.

Don’t shy away. 

 Classifying your own heirs as retarded is most definitely a cop out.

They may actually be, but you’ve got the opportunity to educate them in a way you don’t with normies. 

If you can’t get them to a point where you’ve informed them why they shouldn’t waste your inheritance then that’s most definitely on you.

Your job at that point is to provide the education to continue your lineage. To ensure your wisdom is passed on and remembered generations from now.

No-one else is going to do it for you. And you’d be a fool if you don’t think people like me will be teaching their heirs to exploit yours..