It seems the #1 issue with people joining nostr resolves around censorship, but not in the way you'd think. A handful of Redditors said they wouldn't join nostr because nostr has or could have hate speech, pedos, etc. and you couldn't ban or moderate those users.

I get it. 99.999% of humanity doesn't approve of that content and doesn't want to be near that type of content.

I don't know if I have a good enough answer for them though. I told them that with free speech, that means all speech is allowed, which includes the good speech and the bad speech.

If assholes want to have their corner of nostr and hang out with other assholes, then so be it. The other 99.999% of humanity will hang out everywhere else with positivity and good vibes, zapping each other non-stop.


And you always will have client options that do this censorship for you


You can censor whatever you want to on nostr


We do have those ugly elements here.
But without the ugly, the fine would not shine so damn bright.


People who are scared of the world outside their filter bubble, arent living in reality


You can’t “ban” the evil out of the world.

Evil people and evil ideas shouldn’t prevent good people from embracing protocols that are a net benefit for humanity.


True to that 🎯👏


I really don’t understand it. Just unfollow/mute someone you don’t want to hear from. It’s that simple. On Nostr there are no algorithms trying to direct you to hate speech.


yep that bottom paragraph sums it up. if they’re not cool w staying away from the corners of the world that they don’t like and want a corp or a government to do it for them, nostr is not for them. full stop. not everyone is going to make it.

idk how i feel having a large number of redditors around anyway. personal bias tho feel free to ignore that.


Or flip the narrative a bit.

It is the internet itself that allows for the propagation of the evils you mentioned.

Why not just abandon the internet all together.

“Reddit is my safe space and they protect me from the world’s evils.”

Okay, but Reddit is built on the internet which is used to propagate this material.


And what are those pedos? anime lolicons!? there are predditors that actually groom real minors this is a pretty common discussion in Xitter in politics topics. Look mostly reddit are a hivemind communist, hate speech about calling someone a man that pretends to be a women is not hate speech another example why reddit users have trying to censor someone because of this.

And another reason why 4chan hates reddit.


I like this explanation. Where do we stop? Thanks.


You can mute whoever you like tho, but that wouldn't stop the initial contact. Maybe that is the issue?

I think Global shouldn't be so prominent, especially not for a new user. It's total rubbish, useless and off-putting (unless you only navigate it with eg welcome wino thing - which a new user won't be doing). Could easily be ticked further away.


Yes, when you come across content that bothers you, or upsets you, or makes you angry, or scares you, you want to exit the application and not enter it again. But fortunately most people are not (very) bad and they want the attention of the majority just like them.

Therefore, it’s easier not to look into Global and block/mute the bad ones, and the impressions from unmoderated Nostr shall be even more pleasant than from moderated Twitter or Facebook.


As NVK says (paraphrasing), some people just want a different cell.  They should probably go back to reddit and wait patiently for their next rugging 🤷♂


There's nothing wrong with Redditors. I've been one for 25 years 😂 Many are angry because they have a platform designed to make them fight one another, just like we used to on Twitter. Take away their corporate algos and give them humans being humans instead. They'll change their vibe.


excluding spam + noise such ad / content can be blocked at client end filters or hide - hence user will not see them unless they dig for it leave it on themselves

typical mentality of  mod or moron kicking out who they dnot like or their views as they do in x reddit telegram discord etc is SPECIFICALLY NOT BUILD in here.

one reason nostr is not suitable DM or groupchat
BUT very suitable OPEN PUBLIC microblog liek this


Yes. Global is a cesspool of Fediverse content. It's not a good look for brand new Nostriches. It almost needs a warning or to be hidden from first view.


Well said!  No one knows who you are if you don’t introduce yourself.  All up to you if you want to have a dirty mouth or respectable #Nostrich!  Express your freedom #@Nostr!


Sorry I meant 15 years. Damn typo.


yeah i mean anyone who comes here will get a chance in my eyes i just. idk. i hate reddit. lol.


One thing people miss is the subscribe model. You really only see who you opt into and you can easily ban the rest 🤷♂

Some people can't handle the idea of knowing someone they disagree with is allowed to exist, much less use the same social network


Muting is very easy and just because you do not agree with someone doesn't make it right for them to be silenced too. World isn't a safe zone and some people have been cuddled too much. If someone is in the far corner talking dumb and I can not see it anyway because I do not follow. Why do I care. Why would that be an excuse for not joining. Tell them they should not want to live in the real world anymore because there is pedo, murderers, etc in it.


People are the problem.. not algorithms. Nostr will be just as toxic in time. Less censorship will probably add fuel to the fire. Its true.


🖕 to those few handful mods who loose banning n kicking power here - also never see experienced nostrich complain about  crypto ad bot ONCE the learn each client app well enough


We don't need centralized moderation to suppress people or speech that is morally atrocious.  Societies are always self-correcting; the bad actors are ostracized when people realize they are bad, and thus there is a high cost to moral depravity in a healthy society.

Perhaps we've grown unused to that process due to the central control of social media.


I wont join the internet because it has hate speech, I wont use the bitcoin because criminals can use it. Todays criminals and hate speech is tomorrows freedom fighters and civil rights activists.


All the tools are here to build the filtered world you want.  Their answer is too lazy to be taken seriously imo, lacks ownership.


We have very few of those people, but when they arrive they are not only unfollowed but muted, and when they get no responses that usually makes them go away.  When they have no one to talk to they leave.  If they find a mutual lunatic they can talk with, then each other can talk to themselves, just like in the real world.  #freedom #freespeech #uncensored #decentralized #nostr


those handful cannot ban or kick other - so they complaining


Try browsing new posts and do that for each and every single thing you don’t want to see.


People who really understand what are the pros and cons of free speech and why is needed, are very very few. Even if it is kind a fact, it need a really open mind to understand the implications.

So hard.


Reddit used to be based. After Aaron Swartz died it seemed to go downhill, even if he hadn't been involved for a long time by that point.

The small communities were still good until recently. Haven't been back since small apps were effectively banned.


Sound like control freaks to me they probably will try get a job in government soon.


i only use global with the welcome.nostr.wine relay. my experience there is fantastic.


In my experience it's not even that. It's this rapid stream of test, asfasdffasdf, some sort of weird data, a 40000 word essay copied from Wikipedia about nothing. But I haven't looked.

I do have some sympathy for a fediverse/nostr two state system living happily side by side tho lol. They'll be good follows there with some digging. I'm just saying it's possible to not poopoo the whole bridge thing in the process..but I maybe I have more of a stomach for it ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ or however you want to see it. It's hard not to take these things with a pinch of salt cos you go to bluesky and they think nostr is all about selling N FTs and Nazis lol. I just wonder and don't want to be in a conga line of kicking down lolol.

Which is why I proposed a client that has a start screen like this from Castle Wolfenstein;)

https://image.nostr.build/aee30de18a555e3aa4ddbd5f0c223a7f18e674b3f94028968df7add76d32004e.jpg


Free uncensored speech = Free uncensored speech

There are plenty of ways already to avoid topics/words you find offensive or immoral on nostr clients. The internet houses all kinds of weird shit that's easily avoidable by the average person. Everything is about tradeoffs. Always


frYes, the real world is as you said. While with internet you facilitate 1000x to get those "lunatics" together. So you are not going to be no more the lonely weird person that changes his mind thanks to face to face societal feedback.

Here you create an echo chamber that increase your convictions and will surely create real implications.

I'm pro free speech but we need at least to acknowledge that anonymous/pseudonymous free speech makes good things better and bad things worse


There is only one correct view of how the world should be, right and wrong are absolutes, and powerful people need to be given control to ensure it.


Exactly. That's the definition of free. Free to ignore.


Perhaps is because many prefer that someone else be in charge of solving the problem of that type of speech for them and they are not used to do the filtering and setting up work by themselves.


Realistically, just some tick boxes for content filtering. Eg blur NSFW images ✅ probably covers a hell of a lot just by itself added with Global not being your spawn point.


To be honest, I don't know how to view the global from a specific relay. Do you need to disable reading from every other relays every time before logging into the global?


exactly 100% minority bosstype reddit mods
i know a few from x arrived here they cannot BLOCK in reply - what u have be afraid of ? if i reply dumb/shit everyone will IGNORE it anyway
i have rough with 3 npubs here - mute/ block / unfollow them never ever meet them in time line


They COULD join relays that don’t allow such content AND self-censor, moderated communities would also make sure that illegal media does not make through, nostr’s censorship resistance, doesn’t mean you will be forced to see content you don’t want to, it only means that information will be available for someone that wants it, hosted on relays that allow it.


those handfulfew wanna moderated echo chamber room 100% cheering them and no dissident or critic


I don’t care.  I just want absolute freedom.

I won’t listen to hate speech, or any other evil speech, but guess what, I can mute that.


It also exposes the bad things that would prefer to stay hidden.


it depends on your client. for example, snort, amethyst, and damus all allow you to pick a relay for global, and other aspects of nostr, such as search and DMs. on snort, you pick the relay when viewing the global tab. on amethyst, you pick the relay via the globe icon on the relay configuration page. if it's green, it's turned on. i don't know how you do it on damus, because i don't use damus, but i assume it works in a similar fashion.


Thanks, I will try it.


I read a bunch of those comments on your post too. it felt like several of them either recently had that experience on some other platform/protocol or it was some kind of psy-op/conspiracy/coordinated attack to save reddit... I don't know. it just felt fishy with how more than one person made it seem super prolific. painted your post like some some tactic to normalize CP/Nazism/hate speech.

like you, I've been here awhile and that's never been an issue for me.

those commenters made it seem like it would be a normal part of the experience for most users


The client you use can filter a lot of that out. I think nostr has a big challenge with discovery if you are trying to find people to interact with outside those you already know. In that situation you could bump up against a lot of bad stuff.


Here's my Amethyst relay config.

https://image.nostr.build/c21318331200fc4607c93dd0d20942522dcd3015b08cecd5b166c461934e40c1.jpg


correct


From: nostr:npub1nvvm7fjtpgnswzjdf8mxqg8ygs825sk0rlgespw8txff0j0jc4hsc07qj9


Yes.


Censorship is just as often used to protect criminals in the guise of protecting the public.


I definitely don't like it as much as I used to.


The assholes are the ones advocating to censor speech.

Come to Nostr, grow a pair of balls, assimilate to free-speech, or leave. Simple. Fucking Reddit soy-boys.


Perhaps, but OGs can move to an OG relay if need be.


I get it, thanks. Now I see many "hello world!" and "Test" in my Global too! That's much better experience, thank you Derek.


Yes!! Going on X (twitter) or any other social media platform they are there!  Censorship gives them protection.


What we need to highlight for those folks, is you also only see what you want. So many are used to an algo shoving that content in their face (and then maybe eventually being banned or removed if the company can keep up or decides to).

I literally never see porn, hate speech, bigotry, racism, etc on here when I stay on my follows list and even rarely on global. There’s no algo increasing visibility of that stuff plus good relays.

We can liken it to going out in the wild. Do they just never go outside because there are racist, bigoted, pedo people walking quietly amongst them down main street? We’ve gotta change the narrative and reconfigure these people’s brains that it shouldn’t be censorship first by other parties, it should be curate what you want.


Weird, there is plenty of hate speech and smut on all the other platforms…


Can’t send a domesticated animal out in the wild.


If they want centralized censorship then just let them stay on Reddit 😂 Just tell them to stay out of global if they don’t want to see that stuff.


i never would have joined without Global.  NOSTR was sold to me as "free speech" platform so the first thing i did was to test if it actually had free speech.  i searched for the word "Kike" and got tons of hits ( all of them from Fedi ) so the test was passed, free speech was confirmed and i joined.

there are sites that pretend to be free speech like Gettr but when you try to post the word "Nigger" they give you an error.  fake and gay.


Right. I think it's just people coming up with excuses in defense of not wanting to try something new.


in the LONG TERM i would like to see NOSTR burn the bridges and have its own unique identity.  but in the short term there aren't enough interesting people on here unless all you care about is Software Engineering and CrVpto CVrr3ncies.


Part of the trade-off of owning your own content and online identity, right?  You can stay with trusted gatekeepers if that’s what you want, and they’ll enforce their values, but you just have to trust and hope that their values align with yours….


"Global" is nostr Achilles' heel. A major turn off, IMHO.


why would we want those faggot redditors on here ?

NOSTR should be a 100% White Aryan network for Alpha Males and Blonde Women.


Follows of follows or "tribe" feeds like Primal has are more useful


I would disagree, but I like silly bridges and I'm just here for the ride.
The global example you gave, fine. But how often do you actually look at global now? It passed this test you gave it. But does it get used beyond that for you? 🤔


They want moderated spaces. Joining the space means trusting/obeying the moderator. It's a small-scale social contract between participants and mods. That's what justifies Reddit's existence. It's a very common human need. There is no way around it. Users can always adventure outside moderated channels but everyone likes and will go back to the peace of mind of a ruler. Let's just hope the ruler is only ruling inside that environment.

In Nostr, you can have a Moderated Community OR a public chat. User's choice.


Yes, a step in the right direction. It's kind of a Web of Trust, which can be very useful for fighting spam etc...


90% of all interesting content in my timeline is still from Fedi.

and half of my own posts is just going to GAB and reposting memes from there.


I'm brand new as of yesterday and I think it would be nice if I could import someone else from the 99.999%'s block list. Probably blocked 5 or 6 accounts yesterday as I saw some questionable content without trying to see questionable content.


And what would these OG relays be?


It's a good first step. When you account for negative reputation indicators (web of distrust) and bidirectional follows (friend connections), then you can calculate some really solid metrics that are almost impossible to game by scammers and dominate by having the most followers.


It seems the #1 issue with people joining nostr resolves around censorship, but not in the way you'd think. A handful of Redditors said they wouldn't join nostr because nostr has or could have hate speech, pedos, etc. and you couldn't ban or moderate those users.

I get it. 99.999% of humanity doesn't approve of that content and doesn't want to be near that type of content.

I don't know if I have a good enough answer for them though. I told them that with free speech, that means all speech is allowed, which includes the good speech and the bad speech.

If assholes want to have their corner of nostr and hang out with other assholes, then so be it. The other 99.999% of humanity will hang out everywhere else with positivity and good vibes, zapping each other non-stop.


yeah, i guess it’s about who decides what you’re gonna see or not see - you or some corporation?


if more people diligently stole content from other networks and posted it on here it could get this platform started.

it would be like a manual bridge implemented with plagiarism instead of code.


can you check dm ser


my usual response to this is that free speech sucks - because unfortunately some folks are assholes - but the alternative is much worse


Do they know they can mute users?


Not to sound critical, but you only follow 43 npubs. There is an entire world of Nostriches out there.


True… but it can get really disheartening when two more pop up in your feed for every one you mute.
It was like that for a while with stuff I wanted to mute, but it’s calmed down some. I’m counting on it changing for the worse as Nostr grows in popularity.
I still want Nostr to grow in popularity and love that there’s no algorithm or censorship, I’m just hoping more a la carte tools are developed that will help us curate our experiences.


You can visit Listr.lol and look at other people's block and mute lists. It's all public.


With a bit more work on n/Communities you could have n/communities as the main feature of a client. With the twitter-style of eg amethyst as an aside. Sort of the opposite of the main clients now. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯


This is how you get muted. If that was your goal, I applaud your upcoming accomplishments.


oh no !

anyway ...


you don't get it retard.  they hate freedom of speech.  period.


they know if truth ( whatever it may be ) is allowed to come out things will change and they do not want that because change is scary.  better the devil you know.

this is why they support Biden because they know he is nothing but a puppet of the deep state and they feel safer knowing that professionals are in charge.

they know voting doesn't work and they don't care.  they just need something that allows them to continue pretending they are free while whoever really runs the world is allowed to continue doing so unimpeded.

they have nothing of value to add to NOSTR and there is no reason to be trying to please them.


Sorry but i don't speak to retards that use Cast Iron Skillets.


Reminds me of this quote:

"I freed a thousand slaves; I could have freed a thousand more if only they knew they were slaves"


Great initiative!


You accepted their bad framing and failed before you even started thinking about the issue.

Do these "redditors" realize reddit is just a website on the internet which they also can't moderate?

Do they live in cities where citizens have private homes in which they can discuss anything without being moderated?

These people are just repeating authoritarian talking points. The reason is that people in power need to control the frame in order to continue their campaign of squashing freedom. You are playing into their hands by even considering this framing as anything but what it is: mistaken or poorly thought out at best and abject propaganda at worst.


Thanks for shining, fren.


The people who don't get it (meaning those who believe they must be able to ban people) won't be missed here.

It's the Great Birfucation.


well said!!! 👏


Please provide a list of relays which self-censor and their criteria, so I can avoid publishing to them.


It's not an authoritarian talking point, the fact is that we can pick a platform in part based on how that platform deals with abhorrent content.

Historically when platforms go with the "zero censorship" approach, abhorrent content starts showing up and since it never gets removed people just remove themselves from the platform, skewing the ratio towards abhorrent content. Before too long it's just mostly just the people who post abhorrent content.

And bear in mind, most normal people don't get censored or banned on traditional social media platforms, we can discuss pretty much everything we want to in the terms we want to without getting banned. So even the concept of a censorship resistant platform is primarily marketed towards people who are abhorrent and lack self-restraint.


Whether I can control the visibility of it is beside the point, hiding it doesn't mean you're not sharing a platform with it and with zaps and such the likelihood to being a single jump away from contributing to it is high.

It's important to note that most people aren't affected by moderation on other platforms either, so while there's a benefit to a far-right extremist who has been banned from twitter coming over here, there is no such similar benefit to a normal person.

If I see enough abhorrent content and have to hide it, I'm just going to exit the platform. Most normal people will do the same, rather than constantly chasing everything with a filter, and so the ratio of abhorrent content will only increase. This happens to all zero censorship platforms in the end.

Out in the street there are laws, so it's not a particularly strong analogy.

I haven't had a chance to look yet, but I assume that when I mute someone they can continue to tag me in things they post, is that correct? Meaning that people who are targeted with hateful abuse will carry that around with them with no recourse.


☝this is your brain on propaganda. I will not engage.

If you follow this poor soul and are gwnuinely curious: consider my second example in what he's replying to: are private homes where you can talk about anything without moderation a "platform"?  Nostr is like that, if you don't like what someone is saying, you can leave their relays and go find your own, but you can't stop them from saying it.


Probably right. I guess I have a different experience as I only look at notes of the people I follow.


You have engaged. You haven't engaged meaningfully since you've just insulted me for holding an opinion you disagree with, but it's engagement nonetheless.

Your analogy is flawed in that you are suggesting private homes in general are within the platform. The most likely outcome is after seeing abhorrent content not be dealt with, normal people will leave the entire ecosystem, not just one "home" or relay. If that's what you're aiming for by all means continue to dismiss legitimate concerns with personal attacks.


adoption of tech follows s curves, most people are not aware of mastodont or nostr or why

and yes you muted me, weak


funny given most predditors are pedos


lists solve onboarding


wow are you muted a lot, you think you would be against censorship lol

https://nostrudel.ninja/#/u/npub18ams6ewn5aj2n3wt2qawzglx9mr4nzksxhvrdc4gzrecw7n5tvjqctp424/muted-by


in nostr you can do distributed moderation which beats any other type everyday

reddit was originally a low censorship model that only removed spam and did everything else with up and down votes, the whole thing has predictably slid into group think where now one side removed all others, nostr can avoid this by remaining distributed in principle, and currently media not being distributed is a massive problem that will soon start showing


really the fact you mute over that shows your lack of understanding


oh you can, depends on the animal and the wild

predditors get raped on the net without jannys


more in peoples minds too, but some think its best we let it fester in closed rooms, till one day it bursts out and the clueless censors wonder where it ever came from


like really how many people did you talk to? reddit is an incredibly biased platform

go pull 9gaggers or something


kek


When I said self-censor I meant the individual self censoring, as per the list of relays, I don’t have that with me but relays often come with a ToS you might want to checkout, like:

https://eden.nostr.land/tos.txt


another way to gatekeep fragile window licking bottom feeding reddit users is to intentionally use slurs and bigoted language. it works really well, and people who belong to "marginalized groups" are smart enough to know when it's not directed at them.


nobody owes you their time.  you have to earn it.


It seems the #1 issue with people joining nostr resolves around censorship, but not in the way you'd think. A handful of Redditors said they wouldn't join nostr because nostr has or could have hate speech, pedos, etc. and you couldn't ban or moderate those users.

I get it. 99.999% of humanity doesn't approve of that content and doesn't want to be near that type of content.

I don't know if I have a good enough answer for them though. I told them that with free speech, that means all speech is allowed, which includes the good speech and the bad speech.

If assholes want to have their corner of nostr and hang out with other assholes, then so be it. The other 99.999% of humanity will hang out everywhere else with positivity and good vibes, zapping each other non-stop.


Damn, was trying to pass as a bot!


If I see stuff I don't want to see I mute the note or block the person depending on how bad it is. I don't leave the platform.

On the contrary, it speaks wellforr the platform's privacy any censorship resistance so in a way the presence of bad content which I can block makes me like the platform more.


They need the censorship to stop you calling them out.


:thinking face:


most normal people don't get censored”. Wow, what an incredibly naive, dangerous, and ridiculous position.


That's the wrong answer. The correct answer is that Nostr has censorship, but it is selective at the relay level, which should work 100% of the time, see here: https://fiatjaf.com/3f106d31.html

Unfortunately it doesn't work today in any client that I know of, because I can't select only "safe" relays to read replies from therefore I keep seeing shitcoin reply bots.


why do you want to select relays specific for replies? why not just select relays for all the notes and their replies? if you know kick out all the "unsafe" relays in your Nip65 list, does it solve your problem?


The freedom of speech is a fundamental right. It should not be restricted lightly here, also because it is one of the important unique features of #nostr. The selection of filtering options should only be an individual choice for the user and apply solely to the individual user. Everything else is kindergarten and socialist paternalism. Of course, there will always be some jerks, but the public should be able to handle them.


:Heart:


The great thing about Nostr is that you can mute content you don't like. The great thing about Nostr is that the control of the media is truly in the hands of the user. We don't moderate for people because we trust they can make decisions on their own. We don't need baby-sitters to tell us what is ok and what is not ok to see. We make that decision.


I went to a dinner party once and it turned into a violent fight. So I left their house.  Haven't been inside a building ever since! 🤣


I , for one, am very happy those reditors who WANT centralized censure won't come on the only free and self organizing network !

It is THE ONE feature that makes nostr valuable ( no, it's not the client app quality 😄
DO i see porn here ?
no
if i want to see some ?
i can with just one tag .

If this changes , i'm back on Mr E. network in the hour 😉


safe space maximalism is not the way, it's either free speech or controlled speech


My answer would be to avoid following individuals who promote hate or engage in inappropriate behavior. Ultimately, there is no algorithm in Nostr that can force unwanted content upon you.


Snowflake Generation


Redditors? Isn't Reddit that site that smells like zoophilia in anime lollycons?


That's a lie. Swear at a genocide supporter, try to abandon the false etiquette and good manners of political correctness on X and any other centralized platform, and you'll see if you can talk about anything. This is a bullshit. I don't want anyone moderating my language, my thoughts or who I can or can't see. Only I want to have the power to moderate the content I see. Anyone who doesn't want to have this job shouldn't be in Nostr anyway because they're cattle.


I agree with you.

Maybe we can have better filters? More filter varieties? Custom filter where we can put:
- Broad match "key words"
- Phrase match
- Exact match
to block/hide on our timeline?
And we can have access to the blocked notes to verify if the blocking system is working properly (on admin we can choose to hide or not this blocked content)

Possibility to check / uncheck some kind of algorithm that blur automatically possible adult content? And we can uncheck this to never blur anything, or to never blur a specific user (that we trust). On this "algorithm blurred image" people can vote on the "blur accuracy" ranking (bellow the image) from 1 to 10 (10 best - 1 worst). So blur system devs can use it to improve its accuracy, and people can use it to be sure if try to unblur it or not.

Maybe we can make our own Custom Trending + filter as well? For specific keyword or hashtag.

Sky is the limit. It's just a matter of patience and feedback from users and goodwill from developers.


Just to return to and bump this lol.

It would be interesting to hear exit interview / surveys from people leaving nostr.

I suspect this no. 1 issue is more of what people are *concerned* with when they hear about nostr. In comparison to (what I've come across at least) the actual no. 1 issue of 'where is the content?'. Which seems to be the reality agmfter usage, retention (again in my admittedly limited experience of complaints).

Perhaps impossible to conduct these exit surveys lol. Maybe the #reddit wave can give their impressions / feedback.

nostr:nevent1qqsz2sz2g8cw6jjxsr2v9ne6zeyd06jrcnr96r4v899zxty9key8lxspzpmhxue69uhkummnw3ezumt0d5hsygplwuxkt5a8vj5utj6s8tsj8e3wcavc45p4mqmw92qs7wrh5azmyspsgqqqqqqss7m3lv


Yep and the answer Is obvious: if PsychoVagabondX doesn’t like free speech platforms (or even homes where free speech is practiced) then he or she shouldn’t go there. But that’s not good enough bcz they don’t want us to have it.


You can do that on any platform but most normal people will only put up with having to keep blocking abhorrent content before they move on. Ans since normal people don't get censored on traditional social media platforms they gain very little from coming to a decentralized platform.

Also when I've tried out the muting it appears you still see the notes just it says "this has been muted", so when there are people being bombarded with abhorrent content they'll just be bombarded with little hidden note notifications.

Sure, I accept your premise that you believe people can make their own decisions. But what if the decision most people make is to leave the platform and go elsewhere, so it just ends up with a few die hards like yourself then a large pile of abhorrent crazies? Surely at that point there will be little reason to stick around.

The problem is that your ideal is based on the idea that people will make the choices for themselves but not ever choose "leave the platform" as an option, and every zero-censorship platform to date has devolved into just the worst elements because everyone else ultimately leaves.


It's not a lie, I've never had a problem. It sounds like you lack self control and are unable to control yourself in public. It's just like how you'd get kicked out of a pub if you started screaming abuse at someone you disagreed with.

And that's fine, you want zero moderation. Most normal people though won't stick around on a platform where truly abhorrent viewpoints are openly tolerated, so ultimately you'll be sharing a zero censorship platform with a bunch of extremists and noone else. You'll have inadvertently created an echo chamber anyway by alienating normal people.


Which is fine but most normal people will only put up with it for so long having to see the abhorrent content them mute it before they leave the platform. If I see even a single post from a pedo with illegal content I'll drop the platform in a heartbeat as would most normal people.

Will you still think it's a great idea if the platform ends up being a handful of die-hard supporters like yourself alongside a bunch of Nazis and pedos with everyone else having left?


I haven't said you can't have it, do whatever you want. Just ask yourself if you'll really be happy if this platform devolves into the same abhorrent mess all of the other zero-censorship platforms turned into?

Because I guarantee the result will be the same. First off people will see the content and mute it, then it'll keep showing up and they'll leave. Then it'll be reported widely and app stores will drop the apps as they can't be moderated. Then hosting providers will push back on people hosting the front ends and nodes.

And at each step trying to appeal to a wider audience will get hard and harder and harder until only the most abhorrent people and the die-hard supporters remain.


You underestimate people's need for free speech. Session is a case study that has been about for a while. You get nasty stuff there too, worse than i have ever seen here, but the community is good and growing. Nasty stuff is a rare exception.

The problem here, at least using amethyst and iris clients, is theoretical more than a pressing issue. NSFW content is marked so and easy to ignore.


Improved easy-to-use filtering (possibly including autofiltering of potentially illegal content) in clients would go a long way toward solving that. It could be decided during initial set up.

Also, relay operators could be on the hook for such content. Hopefully the developers of relay software are already working on moderation tools.


I just pictured you telling Jesus not to preach or to be around the harlots.

The bottom line is that you are dead set against a free speech platform and quite concerned or you wouldn’t be spitting talkin’ points & working so hard to convince errebody that it will never work.

Why tf are you here if not for freedom? Why not go find another platform that’s more to your totalitarian liking? Why bother to speak out so hard if you’re certain that it’s going to fail? And fail it might.  Just like so many other efforts have. But no thanks to you and your anti-freedom kind. But I get it man. /There’s no room for the truth in your world.


You overestimate people's desire for an absolutist view of free speech. I guarantee you that if you asked people if pedos should be able to post child sexual assault material without it being taken down that the vast, vast, vast majority would say they absolutely should not be able to.

On these platforms nasty stuff always starts out as an exception but as those people realize they can stay on the platform their content increase while normal people pull the rip cord and bail out. And as the content gets reported, other platforms such as the app stores pull access to the platform making it even harder for you to reach normal people.


I'm not dead set against it, I just know that free speech absolutism will not work the way you expect. It'll be you and a bunch of pedos and Nazis while all the normal people bail out and app stores pull access to apps serving the networks content. Seriously, a single child sexual assault image reported to Google or Apple with no ability to be removed would likely lead to an immediate purge of the platform and a legal case against the developers of the app. You may think free speech guarantees people the right to post any abhorrent shit they want but the law and the platforms enabling you to reach a wide audience will strongly disagree.

I'm here to see what the platform is like to see if there's any likelihood of it becoming a big thing. Based on the complete lack of ability to remove illegal material and the fact that the vast majority of the current users are bitcoin maxis who throw a full on tantrum when you challenge any of their opinions that it does not in fact have much of a future.

It's ironic that you think it's my world lacking truth 🤣
Reality is going to be rough for you my friend.


Just as with bitcoin, which is unstoppable money and therefore money for enemies, nostr is the most absolute digital free speech possible. It's unstoppable free speech and therefore free speech for enemies.


True,

Digitally, there is only two ways not be around of people you don't want to be: the first is to remove oneself altogether in the first place, this solution has the added advantage (for the ones that stay) that it eliminates from the environment people not ready for a sound debate.

The other way is to have a centralized entity police the environment and we have seen how that work out, i.e. facebook,LinkedIn,X.

What is left is an open space where there is freedom. Freedom also to misbehave, and the consequences of bad behaviors are only public judgement and possible individual bans. The responsability of the "safety" of what you may read comes back to singe individual, just like with holding bitcoin!


Trouble is, once you make an application censurable, it is open to just that. We have seen the state grossly abuse its power in that regard during covid and many other cases.

That is the same state which funds intelligence services and permits them to enable the very same horrific abuse of kids which you rightly are disgusted by. Remember Epstein and if that is not enough, read Whitney Webb's "A nation under blackmail"

Blocking free speech because some may abuse it is not a solution. If you say it is, then you should next ban cars and every other tech which can be used for evil purposes. That includes the ability to censure, as together with propaganda it is used to brainwash people and enable wars with all the horrors these entail.


It really depends on what you want from the platform though. If you want a platform where no normal people frequent, the apps all have to be installed manually and you have to use dodgy relays and DNS servers and it's just you an a bunch of illegal abhorrent types, then the way it's currently going is the path to that.

But if you want broad reach then you have to be able to keep the platform within the law, and unfortunately for you (not me because I don't actually subscribe to the cult of free speech absolutism) that's going to require censorship to some degree.


I have to say by the way that you guys need to find better examples if you want to convince people that censorship is a bad thing. Saying "I wasn't allowed to spread dangerous health misinformation during a pandemic" isn't really a strong selling point.

If anything many normal people don't think governments went hard enough or fast enough at cracking down on misinformation and that resulted in a great many deaths.


So your response is to post more antivax propaganda? He may have skated by on the "unethical practices" claim but the paper is still retracted from real journal. The journal is has been published in is an antivax journal and so no objective peer review has taken place. Just a bunch of idiots nodding along with each other because the paper pushes the narrative they want even though to call it "factually inaccurate" would be a massive understatement.

Ultimately if what you want is a platform that allow Nazis, pedos, antivaxxers and conspiracy theories to circlejerk and cheer each other on, then congratulations you're getting that. But normal people will only see it as further evidence that cryptocurrency is designed to benefit the most abhorrent parts of society and will push back against your platform and the causes you are pushing.

And if you're such a luddite that you don't want to understand the actual science then you do you. But you choose to live in a society that has rules and will protect itself so don't expect the rest of us to allow you to put people in danger without repercussions.