Oddbean new post about login | logout I am not 100% convinced he shouldn’t be punished 🤔
I’m 100% convinced you’re a fool.
That’s a very controversial statement you just made…
We live in a world with laws. I’m sure that according to those laws, some degree of prosecution is merited. But over two lifetimes arguably just to make an example for others what happens when you opt into Bitcoin and hold a mirror up to that system does seem way overkill and unjust. I hope he experiences freedom again in his life. It’s a messy situation, obviously.
Yeah. He shouldn’t be spending the rest of his life in prison
If Ross deserves this degree of punishment, they ought to imprison the guy who started Craigslist too. That website has facilitated anonymous sex work, drug purchases, and liquidation of stolen goods for almost 30 years.
But it didn't use Bitcoin and we all know THAT is the real threat
It didn’t use anything. Users were free to transact amongst each other without Craigslist even being aware of it. Kind of brilliant and that was really Ross’s downfall. He built a centralized marketplace when the payments should have always taken place directly peer-to-peer, but the technical ability to do that safely and eliminate fraud wasn’t available yet.
So my friend’s kid got hooked on drugs he bought on Silk Road. You don’t Ross shouldn’t bear any responsibility while reaping the rewards? I don’t think so. Now, should he be spending the rest of his life in prison, maybe not, but he is not innocent
So the bars and liquor stores are to blame for alcoholics?
Ross has spent 10 years in prison already. I’m not saying he didn’t build the site, or if that should have been punished or not. That is a different argument we can discuss. All I’m saying is that, after this 10 years, he should be free by now. He’s been used to make a statement, that people are not allowed to transact freely without the state being part of the transaction.
Really sorry to hear about your friends kid and I hope they get the help they need 🙏 🙏 That said, people have car crashes daily, should the car dealers be serving time? And with this line of thinking, all doctors should definitely be in jail. And the drug manufacturers both legal and illegal. Should the kids parents serve time for not being attentive enough to prevent their child from buying and doing drugs? And in Ross’s case should the the internet providers, computer manufacturers, the rare earth miners all serve time? and on it goes.. If someone apes into bitcoin and it drops 70% and they can’t pay their mortgage and the bank takes their house and their family is homeless, whose fault is it? I don’t have all the answers here, your post just really got me thinking.. Either we are empowered and responsible for our actions, or we are not and are thereby at the mercy of multitudes of external forces, many of which certainly do not have our well-being in mind. I don’t know if Ross should have served time, but he has, and way more than enough at this point.. and to be clear, he isn’t serving time because people sold drugs on a platform he created.. he is serving time because he allowed bitcoin to be the medium of exchange, that is what they fear.. Open to thoughts..
Philosophically I agree with you. But we have to draw the line somewhere. If no one follows the law however imperfect they might be, we would have anarchy. He knew what he was doing was illegal and he knew there will be severe consequences if he got caught. That being said Is it fair that they punished him with 2 life sentences? No.
Anarchy is not having no rules. It having no rulers. Who determines the laws? Who has a monopoly on violence to enforce those laws? Who decides the rules by which we live? Why must you be forced to follow the rules of others hundreds of miles away that understand nothing of you or your network or your morales? https://youtu.be/SqgZUzxbUis?si=rdiua-PT9c64E7cf
I hear you and glad you agree the punishment was (way) too severe. As for the law, that’s a tough one .. may have more easily agreed with you in the past, but more and more I see the ‘law’ being used and abused to the point that it has little real meaning to me anymore, in the sense that it is applied so randomly and *not* applied so extensively. All that aside, and bringing it back to this particular situation, there are so many nuances.. not the least of them being that I have heard people who used Silk Road say that for the first time they were able to buy drugs ‘safely’, both by getting reviews to verify purity and also by not having to go to dangerous areas to buy them, which they had and would have continued to do.. So from that angle one could argue that Ross was providing a much needed service.. Also it is highly likely that if a kid starts doing drugs, they would have done so regardless of the ‘point of sale’.. kids experiment and the drug epidemic is massive and all the kids I ever knew who did hard drugs didn’t buy them on Silk Road.. So I guess the question really is, do you think that drugs with an addictive nature should be banned, controlled and it made punishable to sell them at all? .. this would include all narcotic pain killers, anti-anxiety meds etc, which are widely prescribed way beyond necessity and without any proper guidance or support wrt their use. Like where is the line, and who gets to decide? What ‘should’ the punishment be, and who gets to decide? Our politics and courts are so beyond corrupted at this point, I guess my trust level is lower than I ever thought it could go … and I have always questioned authority, and I pretty much hate addictive, synthetic recreational drugs, so to be clear I am 100% not trying to advocate for them per se… just questioning how do we best govern ourselves and our communities?
I don’t have the answer. All I know is my friend’s kid got hooked on heroin, stopped going to school, turned to running drugs, stealing and robbing to support his habit and eventually ended up in prison. Could he have ended there regardless of Silk Road? Perhaps. They said Silk Road sold over 1B worth of drugs before being shut down. Is that enough to give Ross the Kingpin Status, that even a first-time conviction under could mean 20 years to life in federal prison? Technically, yes, because he took part of the proceed from every drug sale, but I am conflicted. 😐
Damn, so fkn sad, feel for him and his family 😔 And I too remain conflicted.. did he ‘sell’ the drugs or did he sell (by taking a cut) access to a platform that happened to be used by others to sell drugs? this being human is no small task.. Easy to complain about things, not so easy to come up with solutions that will *really* work for everyone, or even most. Effective governance (beyond oneself) remains a mystery, perhaps it always will be..
He took a cut from every sale, so to the prosecutor, he is a drug dealer. Not fair, but that’s how the law is written. 🤷🏻♂️
My friend's kid got fat, got the diabeetus, & died of covid. Walmart sold him the spoons, the ice cream, the cups, the soft drinks, the candy, the tv & the video game entertainment system. Walmart is a murderer. Or maybe people should be responsible for their own actions 🤔 nostr:nevent1qqs9946yvm6rvdhz52xfnz7l69h5ft5svahxu008l73gnhd8yfkuhmcppamhxue69uhkummnw3ezumt0d5pzpsptak45jk5dw03rryh6zcdqhq6ysg05s3rgzxc7sy86ced4sn6fqvzqqqqqqy85884y
In real life if i sell you drugs and you die i go to jail..
People also go to jail for selling drugs when no one gets hurt because the govt's drug policies are insane. Tylenol is a drug, if I sell you tylenol and you overdose & kill yourself is that my fault? The Silk Road had to be taken down & Ross was punished beyond all reason because he embarrassed the govt. He proved that drug markets are not inherently violent & that quality control is possible anywhere that reviews can be made & reputation can be built. It is prohibition that creates violence, reduces quality & makes drugs unsafe.
You sound mad stupid broo
Ice creams and soft drinks are not illegal. Heroin is. But do you really want to blame a stupid 16 yo kid that tried heroin and got himself addicted?
I'd probably blame that kid's parents. Use of hard drugs is highly correlated with abuse of some kind. For example, Biden is a pedophile & Hunter is a crack head who sends his homemade porn to his dad. Maybe in your friend's case the abuse wasn't sexual, but instead emotional or physical. Or maybe the public school system was the source of abuse. But either way the parents failed their kid. A parent has no higher responsibility than to teach their kid how to deal with the world. Someone who turns to heroin is trying to escape because they can't deal with anything. Whether something is illegal or not really doesn't matter. Making alcohol illegal made societal problems caused by alcohol worse, not better.
There's definitely a parallel here, but the difference is that Walmart selling those things in aggregate with that intent would be evil, but they are not individually so, whereas drugs for recreation are individually evil, let alone in aggregate. That being said, Ross passively facilitated those trades, so his cooperation with that evil was likely remote enough to be inculpable.
Silk Road sold over $1B worth of drugs, and Ross got a piece of the profit from every drug sold. That’s why they prosecuted him under the KingPin statute, conviction could get him 20 years to life. Is it fair? I don’t know. 🤷🏻♂️
Drugs are no more evil than the candy or cereal isle at any grocery store. The candy & cereal have killed & maimed far more people & they are marketed directly to children.
It is easy to be glib about it when it is not your kid. I know what the kid put his family through and it is hell. So you can pontificate all you want but I know first hand how evil drugs are and how much they can destroy.
I am not being glib. Someone who would say the words "drugs got my kid" is 100% avoiding responsibility. Drugs don't get people. People seek out drugs because they feel trapped or because they can't deal with some sort of trauma or sense of insecurity or whatever. Emotionally stable people who have good relationships with the people around them don't get addicted to hard drugs.
At least with sugar people can sorta be forgiven because there is a mountain of propaganda pushing it on you & a similar amount of propaganda telling people to avoid red meat & foods that are actually healthy & satiating. Not even the biggest idiot thinks heroin is good for them. The person who turns to heroin has already consciously said "fuck life"
The kid's whole community let him down by giving away their autonomy and resiliency etc to a multinational corporation. They gave it all away for convenience and lower prices. This was likely in the 90s when we were at the so called "end of history" and chasing low prices was the most moral thing a person could do because capitalism won.
But gobermint says it's illegal https://image.nostr.build/dd1a3845c278c1a08b1196afd196a7051bbd7ab76d411320b33de3b27089a28f.jpg
Not at all, if the victim is a child, blame the parents. Otherwise let people live and die as they choose. Legalize it all. As a society we have to stop protecting people from their own ignorance and/or stupidity. Spend enforcement and incarceration money on education. Ignore the education at your own peril.
