Trying to quantify “social onboarding” to answer these questions: #asknostr

- Does “joining nostr with a friend” result in higher retention rates than otherwise for new users?

- How can we discover and incentivize the Nostr Advocates who onboard their friends?

Feedback and ideas are welcome.
https://nostrfiles.dev/uploads/pRLALimz6OvHmO4cjYht.jpeg


How do we reward the top advocates in this model?  Sats?  More follows?  An attaboy?


Any of the above. I’m thinking 50k sat each month to the top advocate(s) will get attention…. And a nice badge from nostr:npub1advc8wuyjh7e230xrpafhy2zd3f40kuy5yfat09zj27rcxzfg4ys997ukp


Where do all those sats come from?  Maybe someone starts a #grownostr pool?


First: This project is already sponsored, so we have a seed pot. http://nostrmeet.me

Second: further sponsorship to “grow nostr” will not be hard to get … especially if the “numbers” demonstrate that “social onboarding” results in higher retention (I expect they will)

third: deep and accessible webs of trust for new users will be Nostr’s lifeblood as it grows and scales (bots and bad actors will only multiply). Social onboarding fixes this. So that will help funding also.


So… do you have thoughts on the algo flow?


Honestly, I got here by the oddest set of circumstances ever. No one set me down and said … this is Nostr. I’m still here. Take that as you will. 🙏


Same here. ♥ I assume there are people who “want it” enough to figure it all out, and there are “others”. I’m curious if “social onboarding” will help with those.


I believe most people do prefer the easiest way possible in most things. Even if they prefer to say otherwise. 🤣. Agreed, social onboarding can help.

FWIW: we must always remember the various reasons people choose to be here. Having “welcome wagons” seems appropriate. 🥰


Trustworthy is easily game able, same with new users, so if there is monetary incentive you will get bots inviting bots. Or scammy trustworthy people inviting bots.

We should just build tools to simplify social onboarding, turning it into a contest will result in abuse. I don't see a trivial way to avoid that.


>”turning it into a contest will result in abuse. I don't see a trivial way to avoid that.”

Thanks for taking a look. This is exactly why I’ve been so adamant to get eyes on this flow. The system will be gamed.

While I’ve always been naively optimistic, I’m also Bert clear that a “water tight” rule-set is not possible, and also that incentives make cheating even more profitable.

That being said…

I do see the stakes as being pretty high, as I’ve described before. Webs of trust and “Real humans making friends on nostr” is the best way I know to shield new users from bots and bad actors. This  behavior deserves to be incentivized. So… there’s that.

I want to have this conversation in earnest with a few people smarter than myself. Thanks for your input.


Why has this person chosen nostr in the first place? What type of information do they seek? Enlightenment or distraction?


Calling for reinforcements… nostr:npub1san22nhe59ct8pstcehav4dtkf94lkn46ltl7d30g3zzl00tg7ussgqjdd


Interesting topic

nostr:nevent1qqswv2jfgmfx5kkxj7gcp2frlsy5w2ctttkcu7vjhnepffrvpyhg8nspp4mhxue69uhkummn9ekx7mqzyr0k07d8usgj2azuheavl0wdqd530qxxg00hhtts7hfppredflpqqqcyqqqqqqgkupx0z


:peepoHey:


I have questions!

- I’m looking at the “+1” scores here and there which suggests a plan to calculate retention scores based on data. Relays, stats.nostr.band, something like that?

- So far, it the largest inflows of new users have been catalyzed by something external (Jack’s donation, Elon’s ban, etc.) that brings attention to nostr, and then a percentage (no idea how many) end up sticking around

- Anecdotally, I’m here because Derek mentioned it on stackchain Twitter and I joined because it looked fun and Bitcoin-y. I stayed because of the quality of interaction with people that just never seemed to exist in other social spaces, along with a sense of wonder and excitement that it may actually work.

But none of my friends or coworkers who have created an npub have logged in after their first day or two, go my knowledge. Namely because censorship-resistant, Bitcoin-enabled, freedom tech stuff isn’t a priority for most of them. So it seems like it’s still a self-selecting audience, at least for a social media use case.

- Incentives for advocates is an interesting question. “Use my ref link” is so often associated with cringeworthy “influencer” content that I’d steer clear, personally, but the flip side is that we know it works sometimes….

- If there were better tools to understand more about where new users come from, that could be valuable, but again, with our philosophically/ideologically freedom- and privacy-conscious user base, I’d bet that a nostr client loaded up with Google analytic tags would be a non starter.

I have more questions than answers, it seems 🫡


Thanks for the feedback. ⚡ Let me answer your questions one at a time…

>” I’m looking at the “+1” scores here and there which suggests a plan to calculate retention scores based on data. Relays, stats.nostr.band, something like that?”

Yes. The data used for this flowchart is all easily accessible from apis at nostr.wine and nostr.band. Some other data points (like DM and private group engagement) are not so easy to get, so I’ve done without.

With all this, I’m trying to determine advocate markers for “is trustworthy” (not a bot or bad actor) and “has meaningful engagement” (is actually assisting in the onboard process for new accounts).

These are elusive metrics at best. The numbers used are not gonna “prove” anything, but they hopefully will be able to “tell a good story”. That’s the best that numbers can do, TBH. So let’s just try to tell the best story we can…


>”So far, it the largest inflows of new users have been catalyzed by something external (Jack’s donation, Elon’s ban, etc.) that brings attention to nostr, and then a percentage (no idea how many) end up sticking around.”

This incentive program is not intended to replace, but to support influx from big influencers as well as everyday advocates. We may think that “new accounts” is how nostr wins, but the problem of retention is MORE than simply awareness.

The data show that new account activity dwindles sharply in the first few weeks. (See post below) Regardless of how or when people hear of nostr, the objective of “social onboarding” metrics and incentives is to increase retention.

nostr:note1sdqu263xaq95fkdlnejgrgkqnpf2rapte8nfq6v3kzc37jw2npsqv5vr2u


>”But none of my friends or coworkers who have created an npub have logged in after their first day or two, go my knowledge. Namely because censorship-resistant, Bitcoin-enabled, freedom tech stuff isn’t a priority for most of them. So it seems like it’s still a self-selecting audience, at least for a social media use case.”

While most people will join Nostr because their friend are here, it’s also true that the more people join, the more diverse will be the social networks on Nostr. Social onboarding, friends inviting friends to nostr, is a way to “naturally” grow this diversity.

Nostr is a self selecting audience. It should be for as long as possible. But this alone won’t keep growth away. Indeed, the more we preserve this culture of respecting freedom technology, while welcoming real and diverse personalities to join us, the stronger our culture will be as we grow toward the network effect.

The people will come. How do we keep them interested?


>”Incentives for advocates is an interesting question. “Use my ref link” is so often associated with cringeworthy “influencer” content that I’d steer clear, personally, but the flip side is that we know it works sometimes….”

Yes. Incentives for referrals often don’t produce the best results. But, simply bringing new accounts to nostr is not the goal here. Retention is.

“Social onboarding” attempts to measure the “quality of engagement” that new accounts receive. The closer we can get to quantifying this target, the better our incentive program will be.

Advocates will not be rewarded for simply sharing a QR code invite link. They are rewarded for making and keeping new friends on nostr.

Let’s focus on this, and the rest will follow.


>”If there were better tools to understand more about where new users come from, that could be valuable, but again, with our philosophically/ideologically freedom- and privacy-conscious user base, I’d bet that a nostr client loaded up with Google analytic tags would be a non starter.”

Thanks for your interest. Nostr’s is free NOT because of walls around its data, but BECAUSE of the lack of them. In fact, nostr data is THE MOST transparent, accessible, trackable, and aggregatable data of any social network. The fact that everybody or anybody can host and transport the data is what keeps it free from being contained or controlled.

I know most people even in nostr don’t get this, but we will. Algorithms are not our problem. Black boxes and lack of choice is the problem with the search and feed algorithms of big social. Nostr will demonstrate that freedom to choose your search and feed algorithms does more to secure privacy than keeping data locked up in walled gardens.

If and as more people see this, I think a transparent and openly developed metric for tracking user interactions on nostr will be the least of our problems to tackle.

But I do dream.


Re-uploading the flow chart (Image seems to have been deleted)
https://image.nostr.build/263d6fea37d04f86f8e36286fd3433cfb93ab9915b05d79e5993051fda6d531c.jpg