[New Pod] Designing  nostr:npub1sg6plzptd64u62a878hep2kev88swjh3tw00gjsfl8f237lmu63q0uf63m's favorite shirt, Creating an open music library, and Growing an indie music empire with  nostr:npub1eequz6v23szzyx9utphsh8kg6kll50wte6sfh4vah8gdjtplcz6qg7at9s (Founder, lightning.store and  nostr:npub1yfg0d955c2jrj2080ew7pa4xrtj7x7s7umt28wh0zurwmxgpyj9shwv6vg)

Fountain: https://fountain.fm/episode/x3v4yu6AuXsmYvdljKZe

YT: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FGimjeyTiwY

Apple: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/hivemind-ideas-from-the-edge/id1731637285

Substack: https://hivemindvc.substack.com/p/designing-jacks-favorite-shirt-creating

SN: https://stacker.news/items/737103

I sit down with Sam Means, founder of lightning.store and Wavlake for a fascinating conversation about the future of the music industry!

Here are a few topics we discuss:

The genesis of lightning.store

Parallels between Bitcoin and the punk/DIY scenes

Max’s dad - indie artist who made some cool trippy nostr shirts (which Max is wearing during interview)

Sam’s NOFX Nostr shirt (which Max wears frequently)

How Sam decides what shirts to make

Making Jack’s favorite shirt, seeing it on the Super Bowl, and stress testing Sam’s Lightning node + btcpayserver setup

Sam needs a Lightning Shopify app that works (opportunity for listeners!)

Sam got started making a first website and forum for the Weezer fan club

Sam is the consummate entrepreneur: he just does the things that need to be done

Sam’s education was coming up in bands and working venues

Pinkerton - the Weezer album changed the course of Sam’s life

Can a band be big and not suck?

Why the music biz generally sucks for bands

The magic of finding a new band that “flips your lid” (Sam’s new favorite phrase)

The magic of David Bowie and artists who can reinvent themselves

Finding the weirdest 10cc record in Japan

A history of the interplay between music and technology from pre Internet to p2p file sharing to streaming to what’s coming next

Scott Joplin and piano rolls (artists were getting screwed from day 0)

Lars from Metallica will forever be known as the guy who wants to put 12 yo music fans in jail

Music Like Water (2005, Forbes) - early article explaining how to charge for music like a utility

The monthly subscription fee for everything was the first step to a new idea

~97% of artists on Spotify make approximately nothing. If this market can make anything somewhere else they’re likely to try it

Bitcoin is the real occupy Wall Street; Wavlake is the real occupy Spotify

Even though big artists are making money, they’re still leaving a lot on the table with all the middlemen

Wavlake is changing incentives so super fans can give uncapped support for the value they receive

We jumped into the internet super fast. Now Nostr is helping us rearchitect the web by letting people travel through the Internet and bring their social graph with them

Now Wavlake and Value4Value is doing this for Music; the industry was almost completely uprooted in the last wave, but ultimately failed; now we have another shot

The role of the curator in the new more p2p internet world

Wavlake’s grand plan: it’s not a music player with zaps, but rather an open music catalogue that disrupts all of music distribution

Bandcamp and SoundCloud are examples of building a new library from the ground up

Wavlake is following their example with the key difference that their library is not confined to one app but open to anyone (e.g. Fountain)

How does Wavlake compete with Spotify - they don’t

The magic of interoperable networks and instant payments (good clip around 1:10)

Artist still only had to upload track once but the potential for where that track can live and get monetized is unlimited

The negotiations between all parties is transparent unlike current opaque set of deals

We’re making podcasting for music (another good clip around 1:14)

Wavlake’s open music catalogue is inspired by thePodcasting 2.0 spec

Developer splits incentivizes developers to try adding and monetizing music in new ways

Now music can live in all kinds of different experiences (good clip around 1:16)

Interoperability means your social graph and comments follow you to any app you use! A comment in Wavlake shows up in Fountain

LN Beats and RSS Blue also working interoperably

Sam is not afraid of competition, in fact he’s paying to incentivize it

One artist monetizing via bitcoin and value4value will start the tsunami

Check out the Forbes article on Value4Value

Ainsley Costello might already be the first big artist. She had made about $750 over years across Spotify 60+ other services. In one year, she’s made >$12k on Wavlake, Fountain, and other Lightning V4V apps. She was the first artist to earn >1M sats

If 97% of artists can make enough to do music full time in value4value land, it’s game over for traditional music industry. And if they can do well, imagine how well the big artists can eventually do when they cut out the middle men

Superstars like Kanye, Snoop Dogg, and James Blake are just as pissed about the current state of extractive music industry

Average people may not understand exactly how they’re getting fucked, but they know they’re getting fucked with the current monetary and business system - largely because every system lacks transparency

In an open world, companies like Wavlake will need to add valuable services (e.g. licensing) on top of their library to compete and win

ASCAP (what a name lol) fails to live up to their promise to monitor song uage and pay artist royalties

Maxs ideas for nostr business models: #1 remix economy - stemstr for everything  and #2 rise of the curator or DJs for everything - getting curators paid for their good taste

Wavlake’s plan to build split marketplaces for music and live radio shows where hosts get paid

Value4Value music podcasts are taking off on Wavlake and Fountain

Sam owns several successful businesses around the music industry (lightning.store, merch, label, venue, zine, wavlake). Each business feeds into this growing indie empire

Wastoids is crazy cool video zine; Sam and his colleagues interview cool indie bands like People Under the Stairs and Red Cross

Check out his pods like Click Vortex, a crazy show called Midnight Music Review in the Attic with an Argentinian dude dressed like a wolf presenting new music in his attic, and a Friday music show inspired by MTV News

Sam starts experiments that could feed into each other and scales them as they work

His buddy works at Aquarium Drunkard and gets major indie darlings to come on show

Goal is for Wavlake to become one of the channels on DistroKid that will catch artists’ attention when they wonder why they made $700 on Wavlake and only 9 cents everywhere else; Wavlake already has simple onboarding for artists, now just needs a simple onboarding for fans

Open library is already 10k+ tracks and growing, that’ll just keep getting better

Sam’s team of 28 pitches in all over his indie music empire

Sam’s secret: he doesn’t know what he’s doing, he just does what needs to be done! His intent was never to run a business, he just wanted to be in a band haha

Sam’s been doing Value4Value at HelloMerch for 17 years. He doesn’t make a penny until something sells; Wavlake will scale in a similar fashion


Would be cool if end-user Zaps received on a wavlake track could be automatically % shared with the associated stemstr creators as well.

That’s the sound of v4v …
all the way on down the chain.
Yeah. 🎶


I'd love to see someone build that!  nostr:npub1stemstrls4f5plqeqkeq43gtjhtycuqd9w25v5r5z5ygaq2n2sjsd6mul5 code is all open source!


nostr:npub18lzls4f6h46n43revlzvg6x06z8geww7uudhncfdttdtypduqnfsagugm3 This was a great episode.  I'm a Wavlake artist and it was interesting to hear from Sam and his story.  I'm interested in seeing where the future of Wavlake is going.