I've been dealing with Bitcoin since pre-2013, and I've gotta say I've never seen it feel as powerful as it does on Nostr. The instant, effectively-free transactions that spring from having so many people on Lightning Addresses is like arriving on a different planet.

Most people's experience with Bitcoin payments -- if they even have it -- is a 30-60 minute wait for mining + two-plus block confirmations, and a fee that made it feel dumb to send less than $20. Most people don't want that. They don't need that. They will never care about that. Some do -- I did -- but it's a permanent minority. This is what makes lightning-fast settlements a big deal.

When normal people and businesses realize that global money transfers can be borderless, instant, free, and only take like two clicks, I think things are going to get very interesting. Still need to cover a lot of road on the privacy problem, but this already feels better than everything naked on-chain.

The hardest problem has always been making it easy for people who don't care about Bitcoin to accept Bitcoin (tender resistance) -- without requiring them to start caring about Bitcoin.

The way you do that is by making it "better than money." We're not there yet for everybody, but for the first time in many years, I caught a glimpse of how it might be possible.


I would repost this but everyone on nostr will do it because it is indeed that good. 🫡 nuff said. Thank you for your perspective ser.


When #nostr clients add "zaps" lightning will be like spendable karma


> I've never seen it feel as powerful as it does on Nostr.

Idem!
With the nice exception of stacker.news, another great bitcoin-divulgative project.

Related:

note10kvn7wxya44gvht8sejqux47x98dss5gw0mgz7n4zxj0yh4eqjastysew0


POW is too slow
Wasted energy


Had used bitcoin before, but until nostr, I had never used lightning.
Fast forward a week and I'm setting up my own lightning and bitcoin nodes!
I hope what happened to me happens to everyone that experiences nostr.


My first Lightning transaction occurred only once I joined Damus.


That’s the way 🧡⚡


I'd like to list more lightning enabled projects in the 'bitcoin nostr' category at btcdir.org. Would really welcome any suggestions for anything I'm missing 🙏


100% agree but we need to make it easier to use lightning without custodians otherwise we are going to regret it in the future


Celebration time again 😜 very true though! 👍 Run your own Node, folks!


Hell yeah ⚡


Is there an easy way to get a LNURL without going through a KYC custodian?


Also agree. For whatever reason is see a lot of people think non custodial bitcoin wallet is needed but custodial lightning wallet is fine. Not sure why that is the sentiment for many using lightning


You can set one up with your domain using BTCPayServer


Agreed. I’m not sure how we do so without people running their own nodes. Even then, channel management is not something most people will be willing to do and without proper channel management your ability to send and receive payments to your node is vastly diminished.


Lightning will always require someone else’s infrastructure, unless your wiz of course


False! Get an Embassy and connect real lightning wallets like Zeus or Spark.

This is easy and much cheaper than using custodial solutions.


Do you run your own ISP? Do you connect to your own cell towers when you travel? Are you on your own power grid?

This is what the State will go after and regulate more.

Not very excited about the catch me if you can games that are coming, but here’s to freedom 🍻


You are still bullish on the fediment aka Uncle Jim model though right? Realistically it will never be 1-to-1 with custody, having a heuristic for being adequately decentralized is difficult but necessary for us to answer “have we made it?”


yea I think fedimint is a solid tradeoff balance in the near term, better privacy and less trust then the custodial wallets that are popular today, still would like to see fully sovereign usage get easier


Isn't this just the same as standard sats?


Running your own node is definitely a friction point but with lightning the bigger friction point seems to be liquidity management, particularly inbound liquidity.

Many of the people using ‘non custodial mobile wallets’ such as phoenix still have to trust the company that is running the node and providing them liquidity.

The concern I have is that we are onboarding a ton of people via custodial wallets and standardizing LNURL which has incentives pushing people toward custodial wallets.

Eventually these custodians will rug pull or shotgun kyc. It is difficult to reverse this course after the fact.


To be clear, is nostr integrated with lightning, or is it just the clients?

Is there something in the protocol?


Cashu is a cool project but is not going with the federated model. You get improved privacy over a traditional lightning custodian such as Wallet of Satoshi but you have the same custodial risk.

With fedimint the custodial risk is minimized since it is a multi sig custodian.


does having multiple custodial wallets mitigate this risk?


Wallets with multiple mints?


Yeah, and if there were polls here I bet we’d find a substantial percentage of us are in that boat.


Use my wallet < use my wallet and i cant see what you do < use my wallet and i cant see what you do and i have to collude rug you


And I must say it’s a nice feeling to get started on #LN and #bitcoin with the help and the energy of everyone here!

This will go far!


What’s the best solution to manage liquidity? Any interesting projects to support there?


Then you have to manage different pools of liquidity. You shouldnt have to say “oh, let me get my other wallet” all the time


Most people just want low cost frictionless money, and if they are being onboarded by buying $30 of BTC experimental  spending money with their Debit Card via the getalby top up, they really don't even have to care about deeper issues.

Don't make perfection be the enemy of the good enough.


💯

LNURL pushes people towards hosted/custodial wallets. It’s better than the alternative. I just wish bolt12 was more widely adopted. I dont hold lnurl against anyone. Its a tool that exists today and works. But the reliance on a clearnet webserver comes with tradeoffs.


If you have WoS and Muun, you pay from the one that hasn’t bent yet knee. When one goes down, you learn about how to open a channel real quickly.


Leaving KYC issue aside, since *all* my coins are KYC 😉 , am I right in interpreting a hot custodial wallet greatest risk is simply losing the coins in it?  So a balance risk management problem.


because it is lightning, its all hot wallet risk 😅

might i suggest doing some homework on Liquid? It offers a tradeoff to keep off-chain funds offline without an on-chain footprint,  it could help you wrap your head around what federation risk is as people explore fedimint


I've been dealing with Bitcoin since pre-2013, and I've gotta say I've never seen it feel as powerful as it does on Nostr. The instant, effectively-free transactions that spring from having so many people on Lightning Addresses is like arriving on a different planet.

Most people's experience with Bitcoin payments -- if they even have it -- is a 30-60 minute wait for mining + two-plus block confirmations, and a fee that made it feel dumb to send less than $20. Most people don't want that. They don't need that. They will never care about that. Some do -- I did -- but it's a permanent minority. This is what makes lightning-fast settlements a big deal.

When normal people and businesses realize that global money transfers can be borderless, instant, free, and only take like two clicks, I think things are going to get very interesting. Still need to cover a lot of road on the privacy problem, but this already feels better than everything naked on-chain.

The hardest problem has always been making it easy for people who don't care about Bitcoin to accept Bitcoin (tender resistance) -- without requiring them to start caring about Bitcoin.

The way you do that is by making it "better than money." We're not there yet for everybody, but for the first time in many years, I caught a glimpse of how it might be possible.


Wen you become more active here Archive?


If fees are zero and transactions are instant, what prevents users from jumping ship? Is it just a race at that point?


yes, and there’s that

Why do you think a custodial Lightning wallet is more popular than a Liquid wallet?


I’ve never used Liquid or even seen it in action. Part of it could just be network effect and the proliferation and improving UX of Lightning wallets. What is Liquid currently used for that would make it appealing to new users?


Sadly I think that most people will use lightning integration on their already kyc payment app when it is integrated. Most people won't care until something bad happen


I use it to swap for outbound/inbound liquidity on my lightning node using things like CoinOS, SideSwap, and Peerswap (p2p) .
to be honest, it makes no economic sense to do it (which is why no one uses it) but after using lightning for a long time one tends to look for ways to mitigate hot wallet risk -- Liquid offers a solution to that


I believe the use case is still confidential transactions for large transactions


So…mainly for institutional use, whale traders, and exchanges?


CLBOSS fixes this.


That was who they were trying to market to I believe so. There were some efforts made for everyday use, but it just didn’t catch on.


Is there a way to like this tweet?


What do you think about Phoenix Wallet’s solution?


**Today on nostReport**

BREAKING ON NOSTR:

To the dismay of 99.7% of Nostr, #[0] reports that #[1] is actually sending hugs and **NOT** movie cameras #[2]

#[3] reports final dates of #Nostrica are March 19-21 in Uvita, Costa Rica.  #[5] reports that 295 people are attending to date #[6]. #[7]

If you have time to read one thing today… #[8] explains why bitcoin is “better than money” in 🔥note. #[9]

You may have noticed Vanity Keys popping up around Nostr.  Our own Jack Dorsey reports on just how to get those #[10] . Try your own here https://hitony.com/nostrogen/

If you noticed the #plebchain feeling wonderfully long today, well it’s because of all the new accounts created.   #[12] reports that 6,100 new nostr users joined the network in the last 24 hrs #[13]

Congrats to the meme of the day #[14] from #[15]

And finally, #[16] asked for it ( #[17] ), and we delivered 🤙

**If you have a late breaking news story you’d like to share with the nostReport send a DM to #[18] with the Note ID for our team to review.  The best of the best will be shared with the community!**


100% agree but we need to make it easier to use lightning without custodians otherwise we are going to regret it in the future


What do you mean?

The fiat value of satoshis faces short term volatility.

p2p fiat enables fixing a fiat value - and have the number of satoshis you hold change to always keep that fixed fiat value.

The counterparty takes a leveraged long bitcoin position.


I think we're winning.
#[0]


Cashu is a cool project but is not going with the federated model. You get improved privacy over a traditional lightning custodian such as Wallet of Satoshi but you have the same custodial risk.

With fedimint the custodial risk is minimized since it is a multi sig custodian.


it seems to me the major risk is that all your transactions are eventually linked to you pretty much publicly through chainalysis. This doesn’t leave aside KYC though, and since all your coins are KYC 😉 managing the data sharing and trusting custodians not to give away, sell or leak your data is the major issue for security in the future. Otherwise, yeah, losing your stack isn’t fun either.


It has been 7 months, so I’ll repost it for the #newbies that are #newtonostr 🏆


Bitcoin. Better than money. (Thanks to #nostr.)

nostr:nevent1qqsgvw5gdwr53uc3mjvzm6608x3m7834v8m646u6k6e3hgffdduy9qqpzdmhxue69uhkummnw3ezucmjxqhxyctjqgsgfhhxuemwtwm8kjk5uppv7uxtmp5pz4wm2dv59lxx5pfnsk98ysqrqsqqqqqpf3m33z


Frankly, it pales in comparison to the implementation on my Minecraft server. ⚡ is amazing.


I've been dealing with Bitcoin since pre-2013, and I've gotta say I've never seen it feel as powerful as it does on Nostr. The instant, effectively-free transactions that spring from having so many people on Lightning Addresses is like arriving on a different planet.

Most people's experience with Bitcoin payments -- if they even have it -- is a 30-60 minute wait for mining + two-plus block confirmations, and a fee that made it feel dumb to send less than $20. Most people don't want that. They don't need that. They will never care about that. Some do -- I did -- but it's a permanent minority. This is what makes lightning-fast settlements a big deal.

When normal people and businesses realize that global money transfers can be borderless, instant, free, and only take like two clicks, I think things are going to get very interesting. Still need to cover a lot of road on the privacy problem, but this already feels better than everything naked on-chain.

The hardest problem has always been making it easy for people who don't care about Bitcoin to accept Bitcoin (tender resistance) -- without requiring them to start caring about Bitcoin.

The way you do that is by making it "better than money." We're not there yet for everybody, but for the first time in many years, I caught a glimpse of how it might be possible.


POW is what makes #bitcoin a commodity money whose ledger is constrained by nature.

Like physical gold is a commodity money with a ledger constrained by nature.

The base layer is not built for speed, it’s built to be very hard to fuck with.

L2+ brings speed and more efficient transactions, but without a hardened base layer, you have no real value.


EXACTLY!..👍 All these fools that think you can compromise the base layer for L2 and short term gains are idiots.

That's why #Satoshi designed the #consensus layer to rest in the hands of the #virtuous #fullnodes and #Bitcoin loyalist.

It's also why being able to run a full node must be accessible to almost anyone that wants to.

No blockchain bloat. Low #transaction #fees. Those elements are immutable for Bitcoin.

We are Bitcoin..🧡👑🗽


⚡ On a UX level sending a lightning payment is so much simpler than traditional finance, mitigating all those input hurdles such as address and bank numbers. Of course the most powerful bitcoin lightning feature is full sovereignry. Your bank can stop your payments for no reason and demand explanation for withdrawals. Your dollars are the bank's dollars.


I am, however, concerned that lots of people use custodial wallets like Alby or so-called "Wallet of Satoshi". Call me a maximalist, but that kinda defeats the purpose of cryptocurrencies...


Yep.

nostr:nevent1qqsgvw5gdwr53uc3mjvzm6608x3m7834v8m646u6k6e3hgffdduy9qqppamhxue69uhkummnw3ezumt0d5pzppx7umn8dedmv7626nsy9nmse0vxsy24mdf4jshuc6s9xwzc5ujqqvzqqqqqqyl38hvt


Onward 🫡

Onward 🫡


Don’t disagree but would argue the point of Lightning is that it’s ‘easy’.    If you treat it like a checking account it facilitates the international settlement benefits Ed describes above. Never to hold anything on lightning that you couldn’t afford to loose…that’s what cold storage is for.