We can learn a lot from the gaming world in terms of monetization. Turns out that free-to-play is actually more profitable than paying for a title outright, if you do it right.


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There's a lot of money in cosmetics.


What are the most common things gamers pay for? (I'm not a gamer at all)


freemium is always more expensive for those who pay, but it gets them in the door

this is also why open source media (including software) does better than closed source - it is free advertising, essentially, you just have to have a payment mechanism in the process somewhere, vouchers are a cheap mechanism


oh yeah, open source software is a lot of free testing too, that's a major dev expense


skins, perks, events


Skins, which is to say purely cosmetic status symbols that do not affect gameplay.


How this could be done for nostr clients: imagine your user profile glowing in a purple color, flames around your pfp. Why? Because you're a super-supporter of this client, so that client will show your profile in a different way.


Nostr loot crates incoming .


Certainly would not hurt to at least try this approach! Apparently the gaming industry is bigger than like all sports combined, so i think you’re onto something here by taking some notes from them


Lolol was just seeing this nostr:note1nyz2pwg8q6txet30vq0xg78rczar5ghckcqqhldsyttqjuxtqngqxmvmqn


If it helped fund ACTUAL development , I'd prob buy something like that.
Nostr needs a game maybe ? Like , the way Facebook had Candy Crush and Farmville. Then use the proceeds to fund Nostr development?


I feel like game publishers would love bitcoin lightning for microtransactions. It would probably just remove the whole chargeback headache.

however, fuck microtransactions that aren't zaps.


Very Interesting! I have been including them in some designs, along with badges, but didn't realise they were the n° 1 thing gamers payed for.

The big downside of doing this on a protocol though, is that it's not ONE platform guaranteeing your status across the experience of ALL users.


What's the "chargeback headache"?


No guarantees in life

The rug pulls will continue until skins improve


Being able to have a song start playing when people go to your profile old school MySpace style would be cool too! I’m hesitant to suggest this, but clients could offer an explore-like page where paying subscribers get featured, or where you can feature a post per month or something. Also some sort of shop page in client would be rad. I would pay for a spot on a shop page for my art. Maybe people still have to leave the client to actually purchase, but a featured product page of some kind possibly?


winamp !!


With real life ostriches


Skins! Woot


Skin of the month 😆


Purchasing visibility… that’s advertisement.  This form of advertisement would appeal to value signaling crowds.


but free-to-play (often aka pay-to-win) / microtransactions are often complained about the most. If you look at perhaps the most popular, acclaimed and loved game recently it's probably something like Elden Ring which was bought upfront.


This is the way for nostr:
- app is free
- pay 4.99 eur per month to upgrade to verified with sending/receiving micropayments
- pay 24.99 eur per month for analytics and account customization


skins for CS and Fortnite are extremely profitable.

Nostr Badges could be the way to replicate them


This smells like winner bias. There are a few free-to-play titles that achieve this, but the larger majority of titles never get anywhere. Steam and appstore monopolies have absolute control over this.


There are three major industries of the future:

1. Bitcoin
2. Plumbing
3. Cosmetics


Not sure how/if this would apply to app design, but as a long-time gamer I've seen that free-to-play games tend to have worse (in my opinion) design due to their monetization strategy. They tend to only be a certain genre and most are designed to have endless gameplay loops and engagement maxing. I find the incentives horrible.


Hats!


We can learn a lot from the gaming world in terms of monetization. Turns out that free-to-play is actually more profitable than paying for a title outright, if you do it right.


For monthly subscribers, you could allow them to be part of a manage node to help onboard users and satoshis into lightning channels.


Vanity items.

The big thing currently (?) is people buying a season pass with about 100 rewards. The more they play, the more they unlock. Be it Skins for their avatar, their weapons, emotes, basically anything that can promote the 'individuality' of a player. If people enjoy the action loop within a game and the 3-5 seconds of actions which they repeat for 8 hours straight... and we can emulate that without becoming an endless feed of doom...

Maybe we should get everyone hooked on a daily Nostr dosage. Like the season/battle pass every time people logon they get rewarded with something.

Should there be achievements/trophies within Nostr for accomplishing things? I'm way overthinking this and the gamification aspect. In MMORPGs like WoW it's very common for people to spend 8-12hours in that world. There's vanity items of course but the best items in the game are those earnt through time and persistence.

Will the unification between something like https://www.onosendai.tech/ , Nostr, Bitcoin and Gaming be the huge leap forward I wonder.

Perhaps nostr:npub1arkn0xxxll4llgy9qxkrncn3vc4l69s0dz8ef3zadykcwe7ax3dqrrh43w could think of a way to entice people to stay in the Nostrverse? (Sorry for @'ing you chief!)


From kids in Roblox to adults playing CoD, skins make mega millions 🤙


WE CAN LEARN A LOT FROM THE GAMING WORLD IN TERMS OF MONETIZATION. TURNS OUT THAT FREE-TO-PLAY IS ACTUALLY MORE PROFITABLE THAN PAYING FOR A TITLE OUTRIGHT, IF YOU DO IT RIGHT.

https://m.primal.net/HVom.png


But is there any value in cosmetics beyond function? Or does its value lie in its craftsmanship?


Yeah if you completely destroy your UX... Free to play with microtransactions is NOT what consumers want.


Yeah but F2P is a cancer. Games are riddled with ads and you end up wasting money on in app purchases to unlock the full game.


That sounds amazing to me if that could happen.
#BTC #Zap #Nostr #Bitcoin


I don't like gambling mechanics geared at kids and young adults, it's traning the next generation to be degen gamblers and you have to play to win


They don’t affect gameplay but are visible within the arena.  Ie colorful skin effects and animations


This is the same as having 10 minutes of ads at the beginning of your podcast or making people pay for Patreon to get the “bonus” content.


I basically never stop thinking about this.

We are going to gamify Nostrocket and Yondar. I am figuring out how to build mixed-reality games on the #cyberspace meta-protocol. Gamification is a way to unlock human potential and productivity, as well as making experiences more rewarding.

https://yukaichou.com/gamification-examples/octalysis-complete-gamification-framework/ has incredible insight into how to design gamification that rewards effort without being addictive or evil.


It's a simple and the most fair model we have to date. Valve pioneered it with TF2 and perfected it later with CS:GO and Dota 2.

Give users a complete functional experience for free, and sell them emotional experiences - hats, knives, etc. #nostrdesign


This question can only be answered by the willingness of people paying for it.


Not all games that have skins have gambling mechanics.


That's the opposite of what I mean.


Why am I craving pork rinds, rn?


<Taproot Wizard scammers entered the chat>


This, so much 💛

I still think there's so much to so in various fields of clients for this, and reap its benefits


to do*


If you are interested in nostr-based game development and gamification, join https://t.me/Nostrgamedev

We are trying to figure out how to bridge nostr and gaming!


I’m gonna hate myself for saying this but… monetizing stinking badges. 😂


We can learn a lot from the gaming world in terms of monetization. Turns out that free-to-play is actually more profitable than paying for a title outright, if you do it right.


I am working on my very first game my idea is to make a nostr arcade in the future… at the moment I can only envision a site where you auth with nostr and pay with lightning… but that may change as I’ll be studying nostr seriously on Q1 of next year


This is why Blizzard switched Overwatch from paid to Freemium.


As an avid gamer, I can confirm. Hell, as a father of kids that play "free" games such as Fortnite or Roblox, I can double and triple confirm.
nostr:nevent1qqspjywjykatqe2efnh4nz8883lxu2t3qjk2e44lxnymdd4e6cdrrzqpz4mhxue69uhhqatjwpkx2un9d3shjtnrdaksygrwg6zz9hahfftnsup23q3mnv5pdz46hpj4l2ktdpfu6rhpthhwjvpsgqqqqqqsxhx7r7


https://i.nostr.build/ZJr8.jpg
nostr:nevent1qqspjywjykatqe2efnh4nz8883lxu2t3qjk2e44lxnymdd4e6cdrrzqpzpmhxue69uhkummnw3ezuamfdejsygrwg6zz9hahfftnsup23q3mnv5pdz46hpj4l2ktdpfu6rhpthhwjvpsgqqqqqqsep2sry


Pro features and extreme customization options behind an in app purchase is a great monetization way for Nostr clients.

nostr:nevent1qqspjywjykatqe2efnh4nz8883lxu2t3qjk2e44lxnymdd4e6cdrrzqpzpmhxue69uhkummnw3ezuamfdejsygrwg6zz9hahfftnsup23q3mnv5pdz46hpj4l2ktdpfu6rhpthhwjvpsgqqqqqqsep2sry


Slippery slope


Very slippery.


As long as we stay away from Gacha.
That shit is evil.
(Damn you Genshin Impact!!!)

nostr:nevent1qqspjywjykatqe2efnh4nz8883lxu2t3qjk2e44lxnymdd4e6cdrrzqpr3mhxue69uhkummnw3ezucnfw33k76twv4ezuum0vd5kzmqzyphydppzm7m554ecwq4gsgaek2qk32atse2l4t9ks57dpms4mmhfxqcyqqqqqqganfels


On the dark side of things, social credit scores is a gamification of humanity.


Damn, this might be a way of gamifying apps that I might actually like. Fascinating framework 🤩.
Seems like Nostrocket could easily beat quite some apps on the meaning front.


That, and a lot more exploitative. Sadly so.
nostr:nevent1qqspjywjykatqe2efnh4nz8883lxu2t3qjk2e44lxnymdd4e6cdrrzqppamhxue69uhkummnw3ezumt0d5pzqmjxss3dld622uu8q25gywum9qtg4w4cv4064jmg20xsac2aam5nqvzqqqqqqyjc36qt


Enjoying the popcorn reading this thread watching freedom loving Nostrichs and Bitcoiners judge others for their choices, and the caramel is discovering that Odell plays Fortnight!
🤭🍿


I'd love Skins!


Yup. While it is dangerous, we can definitely do.
I wrote something related to that:

"Gamify Nostr"
https://habla.news/freakoverse/1688899704407


From: nostr:npub1gw3cv22h5mr5sx9uqpgy44fp6env5yvcx5g4uft4nuszqa90h3hqaw3wt4


It might make more money but it's 99% of the time games that are way worst than normal games if not completely shitty altoghter. It's also a money trap for young players who get addicted to a game and spend way more than they would have on an upfront paid game. Thus why it's making more money, mot that they are better or bring more to the players.

That's why I'm not cautioning free-to-play and will continue to buy and play Mario, Zelda, Alan Wake, CyberPunk 2077 and more that offer a lot for what you pay for.


Sounds awesome. Keep building!! Also check out https://crashglow.com/


Note flairs, so when you reply in a thread your message shows up a little different


I've spent so much money on skins for my kids it's insane.


Check out crashglow and t.me/Nostrgamedev


nostr:npub1xtscya34g58tk0z605fvr788k263gsu6cy9x0mhnm87echrgufzsevkk5s / Damus did this with zap match with a star. Depending upon the color of your star by your name was decided on what % you were matching every zap to donate.

Apple hoodwinked that feature like the “think different” 🤡 they have shown to be.


Why telegram?


There's people literally donating and getting nothing in return because this is currently top of mind. Having anything for sale is better than donations only


No nostr replacement yet. It's popular and convenient


We can learn a lot from the gaming world in terms of monetization. Turns out that free-to-play is actually more profitable than paying for a title outright, if you do it right.


Will do, I have my little plan of going to itch.io first since I’m not sure my game is any good… also is a “simple“ 8 ball pool game…


I joined the group :)


This is a significant part of Discord's business model, as far as I can tell.


Until they make it pay2win


What about unlocking premium client features with payment? A global search would be cool and something worth paying for. This also incentivizes development and innovation.


test 5

test 5


a bit of history
https://youtu.be/7EZu9NoWV5k?si=9x_so45w9ylZ68er


yes, but the microtransaction market is for prestige, vanity and sometimes reduces the experience of the game, not every game developer got it right.

Freemium games are also a product of people not having money to do anything else with their free time


Seems like a good spam prevetion/verification method as well


that's why they call their value add on the freemium base "nitro" like nitromethane mixed with methanol as used in RC engines and in Mad Max movie scripts


Sir, what is this sorcery


That sounds like a good idea.


Sort of like the blue check, but actually earned


Damus needs to sell stickers! https://image.nostr.build/affdd4c7828d7357bfdbefc58c829ceee15862e5c20a51832c5559e142cd3989.jpg


❤ from BBWHQ...

❤ from BBWHQ...


To anyone here that is not a gamer; free to play is the shitcoinery of the gaming world. Treat it appropriately.


Nah fam,
This is not the way.

nostr:note1rygayfd6kpj4jn80txyww0r7dc5hzp9v4ntt7dxfk6mtn4s6xxyqe9r5vn


I agree as a gamer but as a pragmatist I have to question how well some multiplayer f2p games do...

OW2
CS2
The Finals
LoL
Valorant
Fortnite
CoD: Warzone

Is the nostr a singleplayer or multiplayer experience 🤔


League even has it's own 1v1 and 2v2 fighter coming out which is 2D, like Street Fighter. Pretty cool.

They've created a foundation with LoL with a huge roster of characters and then unleash that into other game genres.


Awesome idea!

I was thinking maybe the note flairs would be free and applicable by anybody.. however the design would be somewhat intricate by nature and so would require content creators. What then feels natural to me is creating a digital marketplace which is baked into every client. A % would go to relays, and all actors in the nostr as well as the creator naturally.


list of donors or creating a hall of fame is defo a good idea!


You just named single player games only, think of the multiplayer games that are free to play but people pay through the nose for battle passes and skins etc. If the game is good enough and free why not throw the devs $15 for some stupid vanity item which doesn't actually level up your avatar in any way.

I'm just a game junkie either way, I do err on the side of caution when dealing with f2p at the start but if it the devs do it proper justice then I have absolutely *NO* qualms with giving them some money for creating something worth playing.


skins provide stimulation even when the game itself doesn't so much anymore

there's also the status and hierarchy aspect involved. those with higher buying power can flex their muscles in-game, while it has zero effect on gameplay


Sorry, what does play to win mean?


Yeah that's a nice idea. It would be a pity if these visual perks were bound to a specific client, because there's less incentive to bother.

This is why I kinda like badges, even though its still up to the client to surface them as part of their UX


thanks for bringing up a cool topic :)

thanks for bringing up a cool topic :)


Wonder if any #linux majors on #nostr can share any wisdom on how gnome/kde/xfce work and if swapping between them is something quite easy for the layman?


I meant pay to win


I think GameFi is gonna be a big driver this coming cycle.