Pretty good privacy flow that covers *most* average Bitcoin use cases 👇

BUY 🤖 - For use when you want to obtain sats that are not tied to your personal identity #noKYConly
➡  Robosats Trade > Use proxy invoice when withdrawing to own your node > Accumulate/spend from own node.

SPEND 🪙  - For use when you want to use Bitcoin as money
➡  Not too much to say here, LN has good base level sender privacy when using your own node.

STORE 🧊   - For use when your node balance gets close to channel capacity, or to a value that you want to move to cold storage
➡ Carry out atomic swap on something like https://boltz.exchange (use the .onion address) to go from your Lightning channel balance, straight to an address controlled by your hardware wallet. Boltz has a 0.5% service fee, plus you'll of course need to pay miner fees, which are negligible at the time of writing.

NOTES 📔

🟧 Your purchase sizes are limited by your inbound liquidity. Plan ahead!
🟧 If you don't want to or can't run a node, swap out that step for a nostr:npub1xnf02f60r9v0e5kty33a404dm79zr7z2eepyrk5gsq3m7pwvsz2sazlpr5 Olympus channel with a lightweight node on your phone. I recommend Zeus because spends from there are more private than in Phoenix due to client side path finding
🟧 When using the proxy invoice feature in Robosats, you may need to adjust routing fee and proxy provider allowances slightly

Happy to take questions or comments. Put down the CashApp and give it a go anon, I dare you!


Listen to this 👇

nostr:nevent1qqsqwyrlknmdelghqkj53gujpnfn025tzxnmpva8ft3vfc7qp92k99gpzpmhxue69uhkummnw3ezumt0d5hsyg9xpeu7pmdd2yqdw4pmv609z0dursshp68fka8ahr5hrt73urngzvpsgqqqqqqsp8gla7


So many robosat offers are Strike pay only which worries me because if the seller is receiving the fiat payment to strike and then also sending the sats from their strike balance (which makes selling extremely convenient) those payments can be fairly easily correlated


Fair concern. Easily avoided by choosing other payment options.


Didn't know Boltz has an Onion address. Thx QnA #neverstoplearning


How do you use/create a proxy invoice? Is this a feature in f.e. in Zeus?


Robosats has it under an advanced toggle when you're asked for the final invoice. You can also wrap in any invoice you like outside of Robosats with lnproxy.org

Zeus uses them by default if you're using an Olympus channel I believe


Having used robosats with withdrawals to own node in the past without proxy invoices, would it be advisable to nuke the node and start again or just start using proxy invoices from now on?


Just so you know lnproxy is like vpn it knows your txn do you trust lnpRoxy server?


For maximum privacy, yes. Just make sure you fund the new node with different UTXOs than the ones left over from the existing one.


why receive as a lightning payment when you can receive onchain directly from robosat trade and no need to use boltz atomic swap. Depends on coordinator fees sometimes cheaper than boltz charge


Kind of yeah, the proxy server knows the final destination of the payment (your node), but in this context, you're trying to separate that info from the the seller + robosats coordinator, which is does just fine.


If your immediate goal is to get a UTXO for longer term storage then sure. The reason I say LN first is because of the default level sender privacy.


bitcoin


What are the trade offs of using lnproxy.org? Seems like there is a trust/cost relationship with whoever is running this service.


Just saw this previous response. Makes sense.


Thanks


Some mobile LN wallets generate a random node id on each receive -- and are compatible with 🤖Robosats.

E.g. Valet  https://github.com/standardsats/valet


And it allows you to accumulate a larger balance off chain, before converting into a UTXO.

UTXOs <1m may well become economically unviable in the future


Utxos <1m may also be combined when forming a txn and one can combine dust outputs together if they all belong to one entity if possible.
Why so much myth about” will be economically unviable”.
Just like I can combine a penny with a dime or a quarter and then add that sum and spend it. I can do the same with utxo and  burn some of that dust on miner fees. Or use that utxo dust as a Payjoin when receiving.


Pretty good privacy flow that covers *most* average Bitcoin use cases 👇

BUY 🤖 - For use when you want to obtain sats that are not tied to your personal identity #noKYConly
➡  Robosats Trade > Use proxy invoice when withdrawing to own your node > Accumulate/spend from own node.

SPEND 🪙  - For use when you want to use Bitcoin as money
➡  Not too much to say here, LN has good base level sender privacy when using your own node.

STORE 🧊   - For use when your node balance gets close to channel capacity, or to a value that you want to move to cold storage
➡ Carry out atomic swap on something like https://boltz.exchange (use the .onion address) to go from your Lightning channel balance, straight to an address controlled by your hardware wallet. Boltz has a 0.5% service fee, plus you'll of course need to pay miner fees, which are negligible at the time of writing.

NOTES 📔

🟧 Your purchase sizes are limited by your inbound liquidity. Plan ahead!
🟧 If you don't want to or can't run a node, swap out that step for a nostr:npub1xnf02f60r9v0e5kty33a404dm79zr7z2eepyrk5gsq3m7pwvsz2sazlpr5 Olympus channel with a lightweight node on your phone. I recommend Zeus because spends from there are more private than in Phoenix due to client side path finding
🟧 When using the proxy invoice feature in Robosats, you may need to adjust routing fee and proxy provider allowances slightly

Happy to take questions or comments. Put down the CashApp and give it a go anon, I dare you!


Its not a myth. Small utxos become economically useless in high fee environments. Of course you can combine them, but doing so may cost more in fees than the value of the coins themselves.


Coffie on me ☕

Coffie on me ☕


Sure, but when I combine or consolidate I will use/ burn those dust utxos into fees instead, sure it cost more but it’s spendable. goal is to get rid of the dust as part of miner fees. I still don’t buy this bullshit that one need to have 1mil size utxo or bigger now as a minimum total bullshit.


It's not really 'spendable' though is it? You're losing more than the value of the coin itself. That's the entire point.


Even if you combine them, you might end up paying more for adding another utxo to the transaction than what that particular utxo is worth.

In meat space it's not more expensive to add 10 $1 bills together than spending 1 $10 dollar bill.

But in bitcoin land adding a new utxo increases the size of the transaction therefore increasing the total fees for that transaction. There will be a fee level at which certain utxos will be more expensive to send even if added to a transaction with more utxos


nostr:npub1c74f0h890fhhl2lqkg63wtlwapj0zy4kd7qznudkndrkcrgjeqgqlc556d zapped ⚡10,000 sats

"Coffie on me ☕"

nostr:note1qug8ld8kmn73wpd9fz3eyrxnx74gkyd8kze6wjhzcn3uqz24v22syp5969


FWIW You’re making an argument against yourself


Does Phoenix use wrapped invoices like Zeus or can your counterparty see your pubkey / utxo in the channel?


They do not


Have you tried this yet Anon?

nostr:nevent1qqsqwyrlknmdelghqkj53gujpnfn025tzxnmpva8ft3vfc7qp92k99gppemhxue69uhkummn9ekx7mp0qgs2vrneurk665gq6a2rke572y7mc8ppwr5wnd60mw8fwxharc8xsycrqsqqqqqp2trvxa


What is the privacy implication of this?


I will add to this these 2 guides:
1. https://darthcoin.substack.com/p/getting-started-zeus-mobile
2. https://darthcoin.substack.com/p/zeus-node-advanced-usage


:zelda heart:


ZAP!

ZAP!


How do I create a proxy invoice?


Is robosats considered a dnm?

Fuck yeah for nostr:npub1xnf02f60r9v0e5kty33a404dm79zr7z2eepyrk5gsq3m7pwvsz2sazlpr5


LOL no, despite what the talking heads on twitter will try and have you believe.


Advanced drop-down menu when you're asked to provide the final invoice to complete the trade


🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
Thank you!


No mention of Monero endangers your friends and fellow Bitcoiners.

It's insightful but bad advice as you are not covering the whole spectrum.


Are you going to elaborate or just tell me I'm wrong?


Bisq is also good. Maybe a steeper learning curve.


Likely not an option for the majority of your audience, but in #Vietnam it's still pretty simple to buy Sats without KYC procedures.

We do operate a Cash Office in Saigon as well as several Bitcoin ATM outlets across the area :-)

Possibly useful if on vacation and looking to grow the unregistered BTC stack :-)

2) Cashing out BTC (Lightning, On-chain, Liquid) to either cash (currently 5 cities supported) or bank wire (any valid Vietnamese bank account) is also supported.

Which allows visitors to live in Vietnam pretty easily without the need for a bank account :-)

https://m.primal.net/KYoS.png