Can I be a #socialist and at the same time like #bitcoin?


No. Not if you are intellectually honest! Socialism want to abolish private property. Bitcoin is the ultimate private property.


If this is a serious question, you either don't understand Bitcoin or don't understand socialism. Maybe both lol.

For ex, Bitcoin works and socialism doesn't.

Bitcoin is freedom, socialism is tyranny

Bitcoin is prosperity, socialism is poverty

Bitcoin works on a fundamental level, socialism always needs "just a little more, then it'll work".


Yes.


Oh sorry ! I was talking about the european vision of 'socialism', not the US vision of it (you seem not  to distinguish between communism and socialism there).


You can try, but you will have to mutilate the definition of socialism so completely that it will basically be indistinguishable from what ancaps call capitalism or free trade. Technically what most people call socialism requires lots of anti-social behaviors (coercion, theft, etc) so free trade is arguably more "social" or "socialist" than the policies most self avowed socialists would like to impose.


Lol, no.

Socialism is the abolishment of private property.

Bitcoin is private property no one can abolish.

They aren't just at philosophical odds - Bitcoin is purpose built to make socialism impossible.


There is no real difference, European socialism is just a stage of decline on the way to communism. The entire western world is currently in collapse because of socialist policies.


Socialism and communism is the same thing. The process to the socialist utopia, the way there if you want, differs. The abolishment of private property is central for a true socialist. The capitalist way is the devil’s way for a true socialist. Bitcoin is hypercapitalistic


Even Marx couldn't tell the difference and use those terms interchangeably. Sometimes socialist streams tried to differentiate from "social democrats" by the communist term.

In the end there is no difference. They all want to end private property.


There is no "European" definition or "US vision".

You tell us what YOU mean by "socialism", because it sounds like it's not the literal definition.


You can say whatever you want. Socialism existed in the gold standard, it will exist in a Bitcoin standard.

If anything, makes it better and more difficult to weaponise.

Feel free to continue in your echo chamber lol


Any form of socialism is going to be hard because you can’t apply a high tax to Bitcoiners, they have the means not to pay. So good luck paying for all your free housing, education and medical.


Why was it illegal for private citizens to own gold in the Soviet Union?


Right. I think I meant 'social democrat' ('socialist party' is actually the name of french social democrats).


I actually pay a 30% flat tax in France everytime I sell a bitcoin. Law enforcement is enough to make me pay. And also I consider this is not so high for such an easy money.

I remember when I was living in the US, IRS was actually even higher (35% if I remember correctly: I had a high salary).


Any socialist agenda is harder (impossible?) to implement when the government can't debase it's currency and/or confiscate private property.

You likely just have an instinct to help the less fortunate, which is extremely commendable. I would urge you, however, to consider that maybe coercion (which is 1000% necessary for any socialist agenda) might not be the most optimal way to achieve that end. Maybe freedom and strong private property rights would help the less fortunate better than any socialist program?


A lot of people call themselves labels they don't really saerch for their definitions or meaning.
Based on my very basic research #socialism is a political and economic system where property and the means of production are owned and controlled by the community or the state, rather than by private individuals. This is achieved through various forms of social ownership, including public, community, collective, cooperative, or employee ownership.

So if you're against people owning their own property, isn't that the opposite of freedom and property right?


I would highly appreciate a world where people care, respect and help each other without any kind of coercion (like taxes, laws or police)..

Capitalism and socialism both failed to achieve this. Libertarianism I my opinion would be even worst at it.

I think a human society needs to find the good balance between coercion and freedom to work correctly. So far, I haven't experienced something better than social democracy to achieve this.

Anyway I clearly see that our freedom is at risk now: the 1st reason may be because democraty is screwed by the financial/capitalist system.


Then bitcoin is one of your worst nightmares.


You either have coercion or freedom. You can't have both.


One man's freedom ends where another man's begins


Bitcoin is not for you if you want to find "a balance between freedom and coercion".


That is a typical socialist world view.


Are you the type to turn your music up loud on the beach? 😅


I don’t know what that means, but probably something very clever


Absolute nonsense. Treacherous nonsense.


Why was it in America?


Easy money 🙄 ... you should focus more on studying bitcoin instead of trading.


I don't trade. I bought some at the good moment. And regarding studying bitcoin, thank you for your advice: I'm in since 2015 and was the main dev of a digital signature and timestamping platform built over bitcoin. I even identify myself as a bitcoin maximalist. I just don't buy the libertarian part of it.


I see it as a very good way to remove part of the power from the financial system


To further a socialist agenda lol


Do you value more your right to listen to your music or the right others have to listen to the sea sound ?


Of course I value my own right to NOT be exposed to intrusive individuals. And of course I have imagination enough and a natural sense of honor enough to NEVER behave against others in a way I would never want others to behave against me. Very strange question by the way


And from the state first and foremost


There's no balance between coercion and freedom. We've already found the best way to maximize human well being - property. If nobody is stealing from you, you can build and create value. A government should only ensure the inviolability of property, and instead of stealing from citizens to pay for its guarantee of safety, the citizens should volunteer in local government. That means if you vote, you better be in your neighborhood watch. Healthcare and retirement schemes are unnecessary if the money isn't debased, so those don't stand as a justification for taxes.


Oops 🙊 though that meant gotta go 🤣


You can be a shit socialist and like bitcoin. Or you can be a shit bitcoiner and like socialism. But good luck mounting a children's crusade, redistributing wealth you can't confiscate.


It is 2024. You can identify as whatever you want, even if it doesn't make sense. Knock yourself out.


I like open minded people 😁


This sounds like a tribal organisation. So you want to organize the country as it was when natives were ruling it ?

My experience in France is that everything very big we achieved was made possible thanks to the gouvernement and public money:

- highways and roads (very good and dense ones)
- health care (one of the best un the world)
- TGV
- nuclear power plans and bombs
- aerospatial (Airbus, Ariane)

Today, things are not so good because this global effort has been jeopardized by privatisation of public services, lead by the financial system (privatisation of profits, socialisation of losses).


No. To propagate authoritarianism.


Yup lol authoritarian socialism definitely doesn't exist and definitely doesn't rely on coercive theft of wealth from citizens. Really solid points


Has to be a troll account 😂


That is not what I am saying. I am saying that authoritarian policy doesn't mean it's a socialist policy. All colors of authoritarian benefit from soft money.


People always talk about this non-authoritarian socialism... care to share an example?

The question was will socialism exist on a Bitcoin standard. You answered yes.

If you're talking about utopian bottom-up socialism, ok then maybe. But that's also never existed at any meaningful scale.

Top-down socialism - aka authoritarian socialism - necessarily requires coercive private property theft by the state. Bitcoin makes that untenable.


Sure commie


Norway? Sweden?


And yes, I suppose that as an anarchist I so mean bottom up socialism.
In a Bitcoin standard that makes life fair, I expect plenty will want to chip in for things that benefit others over themselves.


It's incredible to me that so many people conflate philanthropy and socialism...


Relies on theft. Relies on theft.


🤣 I'm a communist troll...

 Seriously, not everybody has the same life experience. I'm 54 and I experienced the benefits of living in a country where taxes are high, but also life quality. I think the balance is not so bad.


You say that. To a country with incredibly high metrics and happiness rankings...

Ok.


That wasn't the question lol. Bitcoin makes theft through inflation a non-option. I'm saying that these systems, regardless of how well or not they work, will not be able to inflate their currencies and will become much less tenable


I'm not. I valuate private property, even if I think it is no it always the best way to go depending on the case.

 When it comes to things essential to a society and requiring huge investments (health, energy, transportations & communication infrastructures) it sometimes works better and is cheaper when things are managed as common goods.

You have a different opinion, I respect it, you don't have to be gross