What a painful reality, although it’s more the case with the kuffaar than with the Muslims. For us, we mostly realised how much we still loved each other with all our differences. For the most part.

But for the ‘Bitcoin Space’, best believe, we can see… https://video.nostr.build/eb22fa75c160ed41b5083e3ebab4e242594089e0f30d87cfa6afe8af9c3d6824.mp4


This guy is a regard.


Best regards…but I have no idea what you’re referring to or talking about.


The guy is a judgmental, retarded, low IQ prick


Do you want to explain? Or just leave it with a label?


"People i will never talk to again" sums it up. My mans fullo hate can see it inis eyes


Exactly.

He’s just as bad as the people he’s judging. Picked a side with no defensible reason other than “sides” and hate.


“Picked a side”
So please explain to me this. If someone defends the killing of innocent civilians, calls for the destruction of Gaza and expulsion of its people or their murder, what should be the appropriate response in your view? Because I don’t see ‘hate’ here for anyone other than murderers. Unless you can clarify that for me please. Thanks.


Full of hate for who? Those who murder innocent people and those who agree with that murder? Is that your issue?


That wasn’t his argument.

His argument is that anyone that disagrees with him is against him. Worse, it’s actually anyone that doesn’t agree with him is against him, or anyone that isn’t sure is against him.

This smug fuckface believes he has all the answers and can be judge jury and execution against anyone that disagrees with him.

He’s a cunt.


Ok, so I watched it again to try to understand your point and your reaction, and I still can’t.

So quick question to help me get it…

What’s your view on the mass killing taking place in Gaza? Do you think it needs to happen and is necessary to ‘get rid of Hamas’?

Thanks


Yes, I think so, do you know a Chinese idiom"除恶务尽"? Short term pain for long-term peace.


So how many dead civilians is too much “short term pain”? Or is there no “too much?”? Do you support the killing of all of them if required?


This number is given out from Hamas, it is not real.


There is no better way to end this endless terrorism war. If you have,you can give.


That wasn’t my question. My question was, “there are 2.2million people there living, half of them are children. How many of them need to die to achieve ‘the goal’ of killing ‘Hamas’? Or can all of them die to achieve that goal?


The only way to end terrorism is to kill innocent civilians?

Let me agree, for the sake of argument, that this is about “terrorism”, since western governments have been killing innocent civilians to fight “terrorism”, when did it work?


We only talk about Hamas... The goal is to eliminate Hamas, not civilian. Today innocent civilians would be killed, is because Hamas is hiding behind them, getting them as shield.


Most of them would live, most of them have already evacuated.


Ok, I’ll get to that point shortly; but my question still remains unanswered. Assuming what you’re saying is true, that every single Hamas soldier is hiding directly behind 10 civilians, how many civilians do you think is ok to kill to get to Hamas before you say “ok, this is too much now”? Or is there no limit?  Don’t be shy, you can say “kill them all” if you want and if that’s what you believe. I don’t know who you are so there’s no reason to fear any backlash. I just want to know if you feel there are any limits, any red lines one cannot cross, or if you feel killing them all to kill Hamas is justified.

Thanks 👍


Israel is doing very well. They first evacuated most of civilians, and then try their best to avoid killing innocence during the battle.


I’m going to ask one final time, because I’ve asked like 4 times already and each time you give me irrelevant Israeli talking points straight from the IDF press room. I am asking you about your views. I am asking you, at what point is it too much? Or is there no limit? You can give a rough number or even like a percentage of the population…10%? 50% 100% can die for the sake of killing Hamas? You cannot tell me that Israel is doing “very well” if you cannot define what a failure or tragedy looks like.

If you don’t want to answer because you realise how evil it sounds to treat human likes like NPC’s in a game, that’s fine, just say so, but giving me political diversionary answers are pointless for an educated civilised discussion.

So…How much is too much?


The less the better, if you need a number, I guess it should be less than 0.1% finally.


So 0.1% of 2.2million people is 22,000 people (which Israel themselves said more than that was killed before the ceasefire). We were at 18,000 by Palestinian numbers before the ceasefire and since the ceasefire ended there has already been over a 1000 who have died.

So the final question I have for you is, considering you don’t accept number of deaths from anyone but the ones carrying out the murder in the first place, when exactly will you say that they’ve gone too far? What would it take for you to admit that too many people have been killed so far? This is important, as you’ve agreed there is a limit, but how does one measure that limit in your world? Because surely it’s in the best interest of a murderous apartheid state to deny their crimes…


Because Israel is still in a war,you can't say it is an apartheid country. If you are Palestinian, you should establish your own country by negotiation with Israel. If Israel doesn't agree you establish your country, then all of the world will stand with you together.


is hate of humans by other humans  ever okay?
this man doesn't know "nice people" who have killed children. he is talking about regular everyday people who are uneducated or brainwashed. he is not being compassionate or forgiving
Qur'an 41:34, 42:40


My view?

The fog of war is lies and deceit.

We’re being fed lies and deceit.

I have no idea what’s actually going on (very few actually do), so I have no view other than the video you posted is of a judgmental, dangerous, prick.


Well said.


I fully understand your perspective, but a human can most definitely hate another human, and that’s not something anyone can realistically deny.

If one can, in a morally correct manner, hate someone who does evil, like how I hate Hitler for murdering many innocent civilians, I also hate the one who didn’t murder them but fully defends him and his ideology. That doesn’t mean that this hatred will cause me to be unjust or evil to them, as Allah commanded us not to do that, but that doesn’t mean one should love them as if their corrupt beliefs is somehow equal. They are not equal to Hitler, but deserve some level of rebuke. Allaah said about this specifically in the Quraan

لَّا یَنۡهَىٰكُمُ ٱللَّهُ عَنِ ٱلَّذِینَ لَمۡ یُقَـٰتِلُوكُمۡ فِی ٱلدِّینِ وَلَمۡ یُخۡرِجُوكُم مِّن دِیَـٰرِكُمۡ أَن تَبَرُّوهُمۡ وَتُقۡسِطُوۤا۟ إِلَیۡهِمۡۚ إِنَّ ٱللَّهَ یُحِبُّ ٱلۡمُقۡسِطِینَ﴿ ٨ ﴾

and He does not forbid you to deal kindly and justly with anyone who has not fought you for your faith or driven you out of your homes: God loves the just.

Al-Mumtaḥanah, Ayah 8

So Allaah orders being good and just with those who don’t materialise any corruption towards us. But Allah does say in the next verse in regards to those who act on their evil intentions

إِنَّمَا یَنۡهَىٰكُمُ ٱللَّهُ عَنِ ٱلَّذِینَ قَـٰتَلُوكُمۡ فِی ٱلدِّینِ وَأَخۡرَجُوكُم مِّن دِیَـٰرِكُمۡ وَظَـٰهَرُوا۟ عَلَىٰۤ إِخۡرَاجِكُمۡ أَن تَوَلَّوۡهُمۡۚ وَمَن یَتَوَلَّهُمۡ فَأُو۟لَـٰۤىِٕكَ هُمُ ٱلظَّـٰلِمُونَ﴿ ٩ ﴾

But God forbids you to take as allies those who have fought against you for your faith, driven you out of your homes, and helped others to drive you out: any of you who take them as allies will truly be wrongdoers.

Al-Mumtaḥanah, Ayah 9

One clear disclaimer to note, this hatred is for the actions and evil they contain, it doesn’t extend beyond that. So if they stop or change their ways, problem solved. Issue is resolved and not held in perpetuity.

So the fact they may be “brainwashed” is reason to spend time and effort to educate them.

The point I took from the video was that some people have held levels of evil that wasn’t previously noticed. I can never be a friend or likes someone who openly defends Israel’s actions to my brothers and sisters. They are my family.


So if it became clear to you that a large amount of civilians and civilian infrastructure was being deliberately killed in a clear attempt to take over land and ethnically cleanse the area, would that change your view? Or put another way, what would it take for you to believe the plight of the Palestinians? I can accept, if you say in good faith you genuinely don’t know, it’s all confusing, but assuming you did know, and it was clear to you, what then is wrong about hating those who support the killing of the Palestinian people?

And who would you believe then if the countless videos and images of dead women and children isn’t enough for you?


You know, if an unstable minority population constantly went into stable  populations with the goal of destabilization I would probably wipe out the invading population.

If the people marching in support of Palestinian are any indication of who the palastibians are, then perhaps what’s being accomplished in Gaza is the right thing to do.

It’s only recently that we’ve decided things like what is being accused of happening shouldn’t be done.

War isn’t pretty.  There are winners and losers.

I think the moral of the story is don’t be a loser.


Thank you for your honesty.  We’ve finally got to the meat of the issue here and the reality has been made clear. It is as I expected.

Here, I give you a gift 🎁. Maybe there’s something you can learn from it. Or not.

https://youtu.be/cbBpiYjl4gM?si=TrJdwb1ex_XEorQ0


What is as you expected?


"All the world will stand with you together"?

LOL nope, your "plan" is what the Palestinians did after 1948, what the Irish did after the Cromwellian wars, what the Bantu did under apartheid, what Indians did under the Raj, what China did under the Unequal Treaties.

In each case, nothing changed until the oppressed were willing to organise and use force to gain leverage in negotiations.

Israel is the world's largest foreign aid recipient. End the aid, end the genocide.


Yes, that time Palestinian establishment of country was failed, Palestinian should try it again, all of the world will support them.


Palestine HAS diplomatic recognition from more countries than Israel does. They have been "trying it again" every day.

What they don't have are nuclear weapons, and friends with disproportionate power over Western politicians and media.

They're not likely to get those, either, and neither are most of the world.

What happened to Palestine could happen next to any of ~180 countries if they have something the powerful want, but don't want to pay for.


No, they have not. Rafah and Eretz crossings are closed and they have nowhere to flee.

Warsaw Ghetto 2.0.


Numbers that came from Gaza's Ministry of Health and international NGOs, you mean?

Sure, everything is Hamas now, except you and me :-p

And can I really be sure about you?


lol


That question should be asked, "can I be sure about GAZA'S MOH, UN's organisation? Hamas is their employees.


Hamas is made up of United Nations employees?

That's a new one! Its almost like genocide is morally indefensible, so its proponents resort to pure fantasy.

Killing 8000 children is bad and wrong. Killing 6000 noncombatant women is bad and wrong. Killing thousands of civilian men is bad and wrong.

Violently dispossessing a population who speak a Semitic language is antisemitism. Concentrating a Semitic population is ghettos they cannot leave is antisemitism. Genociding a Semitic population is antisemitism.

Of all the successor states of Nazi Germany, only Israel has adhered so closely to Nazi race ideology - and now, Nazi methods.


Is this a translation problem or an insanity problem?


The Jewish community have entered, gained & lost power over a country, and then been allowed to leave, repeatedly throughout European history.

Professor Israel Shahak wrote a number of good books on the topic - https://cloudflare-ipfs.com/ipfs/bafykbzacebiwo22xgjeucmqe7lksfq2uebmmzwnajl4ftdoabzd5m3e4zsywq?filename=Israel%20Shahak%20-%20Jewish%20History%2C%20Jewish%20Religion%20-%20New%20Edition_%20The%20Weight%20of%20Three%20Thousand%20Years%20%28Get%20Political%29%20%282008%29.pdf

So has Benjamin Ginsberg - https://cloudflare-ipfs.com/ipfs/bafykbzaceazemcheuwnmq5tna3r3jvnjintfrkxkyeyr7lajdbo5ae2n2taq4?filename=Benjamin%20Ginsberg%20-%20The%20Fatal%20embrace%20-%20Jews%20and%20the%20State-The%20University%20of%20Chicago%20Press%20%281993%29.pdf

Replacing the Geneva Conventions with "winner genocides all" would be a dangerous innovation, especially for the Jewish people.


:-D


Don’t waste your time. Some people are just wicked.


Keep cooking 🔥


I asked if hate was okay, not if it was possible.

I respectfully ask again, is it ever okay to hate another human?  Not the deeds, but the human being himself?


I’m sorry, but I thought I made it clear above. Let me try to be brief this time.

Can one person hate another?
Yes

Is it right to do so?
No, if it’s a hatred related to their physical self; like hating a person because they  are ‘black’ or ‘french’ or ‘of Jewish decent’, but hating them because of who they choose to be, then of course. If someone chooses to be a mass murderer then yes, you hate him for his choices. We don’t care if he is an American or Muslim, where most serial killers are from, we only care about who the person is.

Does that hatred remove them from the pale of mercy, good and fair behaviour?
No, based on what i explained above. So if someone is an evil person, I would hate him for his evil, but that doesn’t mean I won’t try to stop him from that


I think you are quite correct on that, unfortunately.

"It is difficult to get a man to understand something when his salary depends on his not understanding it."

Upton Sinclair, novelist, in "I, Candidate for Governor", 1935

But there is always an audience...


The conversation is completely off the mark and retarded.


Okay so i'm going to push a little, candidly: would you say it is morally ok to hate someone because of his ideas. Not his deeds not his unchoosable parts but his ideas?


Yes, it is.

Your line of questioning is vapid and exhausting.


Wasn't asking u bud, i've hijacked your convo lol

We're 2 intellectuals doing some thinking

Lets still be frens k byeeee


total rabbit trail but this is something i struggle with: do we hate hitler or an idea that we call hitler?

Like, i never met hitler and he's been dead a long time.


ummm you're not pro palestine, this is tge thing which is as expectec like bud are u made of rock or something? Lol

Also he wont respond now, he's not open minded, just argumentative and  a damn good asset for hamas for sure.

You are now less than human unless you repent and change your ways. May the dogs piss on your grave and knaw your knucklebones, infidel.

Btc zero feels good about hating you now lolz k fistpump byee


😆

“Anyone who doesn’t think like I do is my enemy.”

What a poverty mindset.


The absolute hypocrisy here is that “Mothers beg for their children to be taken someplace safe,” every day.

There is horror everywhere, every day.

Yet we’re supposed to care about this specific place, thousands of miles away, regarding a people that destroy every city they immigrate to.

It’s beyond the pale.


This is why you’ll lose.

Your mind is one sided.

If “you can never friend or like someone who openly” disagrees with you, then you’re the problem.

May the masses wash over you with the tank of cleansing.


Hijack away. It’s still an absurd line of questioning and it’s not intellectual, it’s vapid.


The problem we have here is that in Islam we are supposed to love and hate for the sake of Allaah. Yes, you can love and hate some for personal selfish reasons but if they are outside the guidance and guild lines of Islam, then it’s not necessarily sanctioned. A few examples to clarify.

1) Some ideas are evil, and repugnant, but if I hated someone specifically just for that you may assume that this would justify all sorts of mistreatment. That’s normal for ‘hatred’. But in Islam we’re ordered to guide such people to righteousness and good behaviour, deed and beliefs. Why would you put effort to help someone if you “hated them”?  That shows that it’s not the type of ‘hate’ you’re thinking of.

2) Likewise, you love someone, but only to a point whereby you don’t commit sinful deeds or mistreatment of anyone because of it. So if I was madly in love with a woman and she told me I must rob someone so i could get her some expensive ring, that love would be wrong and forbidden if it leads me to such a sin. Likewise, if would be prohibited for me to aid any fellow Muslims to oppress a non-Muslims, and in fact I am obligated to stop him. So although my aligences is towards my fellow Muslim, I cannot let that ‘love’ lead to sin. That’s not really love. The prophet Muhammad said: “Help your brother, whether he is oppressed or the oppressor”. His disciples said “we understand how to help him if he is oppressed, but how can we help him if he is an oppressor?” And said “stop him from his oppression”.

So when I say “hate someone for their idea” it’s not the same type of hatred a racist has for ‘the other’ for example.

So bringing it back to the original conversation. If I met someone who had no issue in the murder of innocent civilians , or they agreed with the use of nuclear bombs on civilians, I very easily hate that person for having it in them to accept such barbarism, but if I was able to get them to change their views through dialogue, and they changed, I would have zero reason to hate him further and in fact I would love him for his sincerity and goodness.


Hitler was an evil man, if what they say that he did was true, and he no doubt had evil beliefs for sure. But if he left that, repented, rectified his situations than the door to forgiveness is always there. Unless you’re dead, and then it’s too late.

But best believe, there wasn’t much of a difference between him and the likes of Winston Churchill. They all shared similar evil ideas. It’s just that Hitler lost the war.


The hypocrisy of the last sentence.


“You can know in 5 seconds whether the person you’re talking to is a terrible person or not” - made me laugh. Didn’t watch for long enough to figure out which side of what conflict this guy is on.

But for real we need 🫂🫂 not division and hate, especially after nothing more than a 5 second window into what another person is thinking.


Can you love someone who thinks you’re a subhuman who deserves to die; you and your family? Honest question


Yes


But I don’t actually think that’s what he’s talking about. Is it?


He’s talking about those who defend the brutal murder of 10’s of 1000’s of innocent women and children.


Is someone an evil terrible person if they think it’s actually the opposite side of the conflict doing that, not the one you think?


If you’ve read Ender’s Game, think about Ender’s relationship with the Buggers and how it compares to this guy.


It’s hard until at some point it isn’t

and I think it’s required 🫂🫂🫂


This is where principles matter. Principles are not affected by facts or misinformation.

For example,
Whether one is IDF fighting what they think is ‘Hamas terrorist’ or one is a Hamas freedoms fighter fighting an oppressive occupying force, whether you believe either sides propaganda, that doesn’t justify murdering civilians, dehumanising them, give cause for abuse of POW etc. Allaah said in the Quraan

یَـٰۤأَیُّهَا ٱلَّذِینَ ءَامَنُوا۟ كُونُوا۟ قَوَّ ٰمِینَ لِلَّهِ شُهَدَاۤءَ بِٱلۡقِسۡطِۖ وَلَا یَجۡرِمَنَّكُمۡ شَنَـَٔانُ قَوۡمٍ عَلَىٰۤ أَلَّا تَعۡدِلُوا۟ۚ ٱعۡدِلُوا۟ هُوَ أَقۡرَبُ لِلتَّقۡوَىٰۖ وَٱتَّقُوا۟ ٱللَّهَۚ إِنَّ ٱللَّهَ خَبِیرُۢ بِمَا تَعۡمَلُونَ﴿ ٨ ﴾

“You who believe, be steadfast in your devotion to God and bear witness impartially: do not let hatred of others lead you away from justice, but adhere to justice, for that is closer to awareness of God. Be mindful of God: God is well aware of all that you do.”

Belief in one’s own propaganda should never lead one to commit crimes.

I support the Palestinians simply because they are an occupied people in occupied land. Nobody on planet earth disagrees with this besides Israel and USA. One can argue all they like, but this is a statement of fact. Not opinion. There are objective facts in the ground that one cannot ignore no matter how much one wants to


We go round in circles while ignoring the facts.

Are the Palestinians occupied?  Because that seems to be an objective fact to everyone but the occupiers.

https://youtu.be/ph9XF39yjgU?si=9wderx_K-FqbLEXK


Those facts as far as I can tell do not support Hamas. Neither the Israeli government. But do support Palestinians. The #zerostatesolution is therefore my favorite.


I try not to click YouTube links. What’s the title? 🫂

And yes, they are we’re in agreement there see my other reply.


And btw also support Jews in their search for safety. So for example every piece of property legitimately transferred from Palestinians to Israelis - great. Every one stolen at gunpoint, by trickery, etc, not great. Bad in fact.


But who denies any of that by the way? Have you ever seen any human being Palestinian or not deny a Jew from property they acquired legally and fairly? It’s almost like a straw man to mention it.  Islam has very strict property rights laws and that would have and has always protected the rights of a Jew and everyone else to buy and own property. The irony is, it’s this exact thing we both agree on that the Israeli gov is breaking and has been breaking for almost a century now.

And I would also say that statement “I support Jews in their search for safety” I find it extremely distasteful. Safety is a right given to all, not just Jews. When phrased in such a way it gives the impression that their safety is somehow more important than others. So I would say, for all of those who wave this phrase in the air to them take the Jews into your own lands and give them the safety you say you want them to have; and don’t take other people’s land and rights to achieve that goal.

https://youtu.be/RvQmoPjH4dA?si=NazyRKSbFuVRMYwh


I didn’t mean it that way. 🫂
I actually think I agree with everything you said there - I just felt the need to even out my earlier statement a bit for some people I know who are prone to seeing statements that are ultimately anti-Israel as being anti-Semitic.


And that’s by design. There is a known sense of ‘fear’ to say ‘ANYTHING’ remotely wrong to get the label of ‘antisemitism’. This has manifested itself to people always self censoring even the most innocent of sentences. And not they are pushing that being ‘anti-Israeli’ or even ‘anti-Israeli politics’ equals ‘anti-Semitic’. This is nonsense and a weapon against criticism.

Hating someone for things they cannot change (their colour, height etc) is dumb, but hating someone for their evil actions and/or beliefs then that’s why you would hate someone. And it’s also fair, because they have a choice to be evil or not. If someone doesn’t want the world to hate them, don’t kill and murder innocent women and children. It’s not hard math 😘


So what do you think about Hamas?


They are fighting an occupation. Thats a statement of fact. I hope they do so in accordance to Islamic laws of engagement which protects innocent civilians etc. Whether they do that, who knows for sure. But from the evidence I’ve seen, they do. Will they continue to do that? I don’t know have they always done that? I don’t know. I only really learnt anything about them since 7th October, like most people, and I’ve seen a long list of things they were accused of that turned out to be blatant Israeli lies. Egregious despicable lies.

If there’s something specifically about them you think is bad, let me know and I’ll comment on that specifically. But based on what I know and what I said above, their situation is simple and is no different to any government that fights occupation.


By the way, let’s not forget, they aren’t a band of guys with guns, they are a legitimate government that won an election set up by the US government in a fair election. The US government even said at the time that it was the most fair election that has taken place in the region. Governments conduct military operations when necessary (or even when it’s not necessary).


Check out this delivery by the Jewish scholar Norman Fincklstine about Gaza. He does a good job explaining the facts. Not spin or propaganda

https://youtu.be/esli-uLlN2A?si=uiwDfFjBiU_-jyWA


What’s the video title / publisher?


Here are things I currently believe about Hamas that I also see as negative.

Until recently their stated organizational goal included killing all Jews everywhere.

They may be using unwilling civilians as shields.

They killed children intentionally during the Oct 7 events.

They killed non-combatant men and women intentionally during the same.

They may be restricting people from fleeing from Gaza.

Their stated strategy is to cause Israel to kill civilians (who have seemingly not consented meaningfully to be so sacrificed) in order to rally support against Israel.

For sure maybe these are not true.


Ok, so before even addressing these points, the fundamental question is, if these points were misinformation, deliberately via propaganda or accidental via misunderstanding, if they weren’t true, how would that change your view of this conflict? Because if it changes nothing, then it’s a pointless to the discussion by even mentioning it.


I put the YouTube link in the note above. Here it is again:

https://youtu.be/esli-uLlN2A?si=uiwDfFjBiU_-jyWA


I forgot one, afaik they are no longer a democratic group which further weakens their case as being a rightful governing body.


Yeah so let’s say that all my moral problems with a Hamas are proven false, new more valid ones don’t appear, and that a similar review of Israel doesn’t exonerate Israel, then that would shift things for me dramatically.

My intention with my opinion is to be true, with no preference for the typical goal of it staying the same as it has been.

Clarifying, dor me right now it’s mostly a question of do I think its best for the area to stop being be under the kind of Israeli government control it’s under after or before Hamas is defeated.


Now you’re being dogmatic 😂

Why does the world have to operate under your legal ideology? There are multiple ways in which a nation can rightly operate that does happen to be a carbon copy of the west.


I think you’re a reasonable man, and given the information I trust you will come to a conclusion that is more reflective of the facts. I genuinely suggest, sincerely from my heart, that you just watch the video I shared above with Norman Fincklstine, a Jewish scholar in this field. He’s not a Muslim or Hamas so hopefully that would eliminate the suspicion of bias. Watch that; and let me know how you feel after.

To address in brief,

1) Regarding the lies about mass rape, that’s received an Uber push just over the last few days, total lies, as can be seen here. They even used picture from wars in Kurdistan as evidence of Hamas. Lies
https://youtu.be/pMqRK5LpGy4?feature=shared

2) The babies, also lies, debunked here also here and plenty of other places

https://youtu.be/jUA74ws4NPs?si=d_fQQz0-E1nX90SC

3) The human shields has also been debunked for over a decade now, with no independent organisation every been able to verify that, while all alone independent orgs have proven that Israel has been using human shields for decades now. If you want evidence for this just ask, but I think Norman addresses this

4) They prevent people leaving Gaza, not true, and again, where is the Independent evidence for this?

5) Killing non-combatant men and women, like I said, there were a lot of people who died as a result of the military operation. But there is strong evidence that they weren’t intentional if it occurred. But remember, these places were fortified military locations, even if there were civilians living there. And a civilian who picks up a weapon is now a combatant under international law by the way. Again, if you want evidence for this I can get it. But here is the evidence that the Israelis killed their own people on the 7th

https://x.com/ecomarxi/status/1732022607791145273?s=46&t=AeUubJVXjsWeffPXQIjUGA

And: https://x.com/propandco/status/1732134983806914940?s=46&t=AeUubJVXjsWeffPXQIjUGA

I sincerely request you give Norman a go. He explains it better than me, being a scholar in this. https://image.nostr.build/888a87ea4e0a5d46120545693ed09b95eb1892b682e76b8bf3e8b24da7f2361e.jpg


One last point forgot to mention which actually is the most important one 😂

No, Hamas and no Muslim, wants to kill all Jews. This is either a mistranslation, misunderstanding or outright lie.

Most likely what was said was to remove the Jews in power from Palestine, the occupied lands, but it does not include a ‘holocaust like’ death cult. This is so opposed to Islam that it would be tantamount to a form of disbelief in Islam itself. Allah says in the Quraan

لَّا یَنۡهَىٰكُمُ ٱللَّهُ عَنِ ٱلَّذِینَ لَمۡ یُقَـٰتِلُوكُمۡ فِی ٱلدِّینِ وَلَمۡ یُخۡرِجُوكُم مِّن دِیَـٰرِكُمۡ أَن تَبَرُّوهُمۡ وَتُقۡسِطُوۤا۟ إِلَیۡهِمۡۚ إِنَّ ٱللَّهَ یُحِبُّ ٱلۡمُقۡسِطِینَ﴿ ٨ ﴾

and He does not forbid you to deal kindly and justly with anyone who has not fought you for your faith or driven you out of your homes: God loves the just.

Al-Mumtaḥanah, Ayah 8

إِنَّمَا یَنۡهَىٰكُمُ ٱللَّهُ عَنِ ٱلَّذِینَ قَـٰتَلُوكُمۡ فِی ٱلدِّینِ وَأَخۡرَجُوكُم مِّن دِیَـٰرِكُمۡ وَظَـٰهَرُوا۟ عَلَىٰۤ إِخۡرَاجِكُمۡ أَن تَوَلَّوۡهُمۡۚ وَمَن یَتَوَلَّهُمۡ فَأُو۟لَـٰۤىِٕكَ هُمُ ٱلظَّـٰلِمُونَ﴿ ٩ ﴾

But God forbids you to take as allies those who have fought against you for your faith, driven you out of your homes, and helped others to drive you out: any of you who take them as allies will truly be wrongdoers.

Al-Mumtaḥanah, Ayah 9

So as you can see, non-oppressive Jews are protected and left alone. Our grief is only with those who oppress Muslims; kill us and kick us out of our homes.

Hamas could never have such stupid beliefs, and no Muslim in the history of Islam has ever had that type of beliefs.


🫂 I haven’t introduced myself it seems :) I don’t think it should be anything like the west. That’s why I am a proponent of a 0 state solution.

Of course the world doesn’t have to operate under what I happen to think is the ideally moral system. Democracy btw is not my ideal system either.

Democracy is just better in my view what I fear Hamas is doing - a sort of secret governing body that is not accountable to its people, can’t be unseated by them without violence, and doesn’t let them live there without being under their rule and paying tribute to them.

But if the question is “which side do I think should be go away first”, which is how I think of the question here, then sure my ideology is important.


Before you try to answer any question, get all the facts. Norman fincklstine. Watch that vid. It will clear up a LOT 😘


“Get all the facts” :(