Cars should actually NOT be so computerized. That’s why cars before 2013 are elite.


As someone who works in tech, I endorse this message 😅


My 2016 F150 isn’t very computerized!


yes, we have a basic 2017 f150 that isn’t computerized at all


You mean before 1995. *<"( OBD2


nah, computers make cars run better -- since 1958!

carburetors suck to maintain and keep in tip top shape, electronic fuel injection made cars so much better 🥳


This note (& lower tech cars) will age well


This. Maybe our enemy here is not computers but proprietary software and that centralization bastard again


Is this a joke?


Cars have been mostly, or "fully computerized" since the 80s. I used to work on code written in 1980 for complete engine management.


I mean it has diagnostics and stuff like that, but compared to the nonsense that is in modern vehicles, this thing is basically a flip phone.


OBD2 rules :p

My Toyota can tell me where it hurts, with the aid of a computer.

My (older) Mercedes can only blink codes, with difficulty.

But otherwise I'm 100% in agreement. The "smart" Mazda I had was nightmare fuel.


100% If it's going to have a computer, I at least want to be able to interact with it!


OBD2 is the foundation that all the tracking BS is built on. Now new cars can spy on you and it's all being standardize and required by law.

I'd take blinks over convenience that compromises my data.


If it has the "Sync" system it has a cellular modem installed and cannot be removed. I don't know what year started mandatory modems for telematics in Fords.


OBD1 still used a serial protocol (early PWM) for most US manufacters, Bosch had their own system too. Same data just more work to get it out. OBD at least made it standardized what data a USER can access. OBD gives us access to memory directly if you know what to do with it.


they suckbto maintain if youre lazy.


Both of these trucks might also have electric steering. Meaning even your steering wheel is not connected to anything but a computer.


Since about 2005 your accelerator pedal is only connected to a computer. The computer then decides how to control the throttle. It's called drive by wire.


I'm aware. But, standardization at the behest of regulators is ALWAYS bad for customers/owners of what should be private property.

This all plays into the right to repair stuff. If you can't fix things yourself, you can't say you actually own the thing.


Dunno about that - the steering column gets in the way of me working on it.


100%, I would too, but 2000s models give me convenience without tracking. I'd stock up, but I'm even more interested in open source ECUs.


Column is still there. But doesn't have a shaft that connects to the steering box.


Cars should actually NOT be so computerized. That’s why cars before 2013 are elite.


be honest, depends on the carburetor too 🤭 some of those were designed to fail - made as cheaply as possible especially as efi drove costs down

and um, traction control ?!🤣🤣 computers in cars are great


nah. 🙂


Meh.


2024 M3 tho


so, CME, EMP, cars all ded


Well, yeah, but so is everything else. And hardly anyone would own a car, if we hadn't made them all electric. Making the motor fully-electric is just the last step. Now, cars are really cheap to build, have lower PPMs and emissions, and are more reliable. And the acceleration is amazing. The main problem left, is the weight.

Old cars stink like a diesel locomotive, guzzle gas, and are expensive to maintain.


Doesn't matter what you own or build. The regulators can just revoke the insurance on any car that doesn't allow tracking. Then, you could own a car without tracking, but you can't drive it.


Chip is stunned.

I legit can't remember a time when cars weren't completely computerized. We were building like that in the late 90s, and it probably started much earlier.


i'll be on foot and bicycle while y'alls have fun with your no radio, no electrical systems working in 11 years from now... i'm almost certain it's going to be doomsday for electro/radio devices, and it will get steadily worse leading up to that, to the point that even if they made a skynet the robots would be fried


btw... you don't need electricity to run an old school diesel engine

and it's probably cost effective to turn a shit-ton of rape seed oil into diesel with a bunch of potassium hydroxide you made out of wood ashes, or, i mean, for now easy enough to buy drums of KOH anyway

so, yeah, i guess a lot of people are not gonna be ready for that

auroras in the subtropics are a warning


I've got an electrical engineer and soon a mechanical engineer, in the house, and I live out in the country. I'll be fine.
Also, my bicycle is still analog. Most people have eBikes. 😅


well, i think that they'll all be laughing on the other side of their faces when they wake up one day with the silence of the machines


It would have to be a very old engine. I was working on diesel powertrain, in the 90s, after all.
People dump rape seed oil into their diesel cars, sometimes, but I don't recommend it. And you'd need a heck of a lot of oil, for those old diesels. Probably better off with a steam locomotive burning coal, really. Anyone with wood can produce coal, and we live in a big forest.


Meh, not really. Our electrical grid is so shit, that everyone is just waiting for the blackout to hit and putting mechanical water pumps and gray-water catchment in their yards, and adding wood-burning stoves to their houses.


indeed... i expect suddenly people are gonna see a reason why depending on electricity right now has been a bit of a mistake

btw, having the problem of the sun nuking electrical devices on a regular basis for a while doesn't mean no computers it just means that you have to stick to underground and optical network systems, and drone warfare will be ded, because once it happens a few times there will be nobody able to make them for several years or longer, and i hate to think of the chaos that will break out in large electricity dependent high density city areas... the smart people already are going to villages like your locality


this is the way ™


Yeah, we don't want them here. 😅


don't worry, they will give up before they even leave the outskirts of the city, if they didn't get set on fire by some loonies or other with molotovs


i am definitely going to make sure i have myself a couple of old diesel trucks at some point, probably a 80s era lada niva and whatever is easiest to find near me, get them both overhauled fully and configured to have a full no-electrical operation capability... i expect that suddenly they are going to be worth a lot of money sometime in the next 10 years, and i intend to keep mine in pristine working condition and not work them that hard, either, so they are always available

i'm expecting a decade or three to pass with a shattered economy with severe problems with energy availability, and am planning accordingly

dreaming about my little library of essential knowledge, and other things to occupy my time in the absence of internet when this happens


we are living in days like those of Noah, and many will scoff until the sun turns blue and the grid goes down and it's unsafe above ground for 5-10 years


The farmers still drive the old diesel tractors, here. They have a big old-timer club. Guess we'll all ride Traktorbus.

https://gdkfiles.visitdenmark.com/files/450/296782_Mandbussen.jpg


zicher!


Is that ever happens, I'll just drive illegally. At that point, what they are doing is just immoral and I will do what I want with my own dang property.


Well, yes. That's what I drive and have for a long time. Eventually all the electronics are going to fail, though.


I am lol. I was de-compiling code with a copyright date as early as 1980.


DT360s are completely mechanical and ran in US school busses into the mid 2000s


Cummins 6BT are in equipment and bread/delivery vans, also until early 2000s :)


On passenger the road #2 diesel vehicles usually saw high 30s to low 50s in MPG through the early 2000s. They did great on fuel economy. Even light-mid duty diesel engines are "good" on fuel economy. We can currently store more energy in a 40 gallons tank of diesel fuel than any battery technology for the same volume. You'd have to include the volume used by the rest of the powertrain, which is fair, to be equivalent.


this kind of meaty fax is why i follow you

i was pretty sure that most diesel engines were 100% non-electrical and the electrical things have only been added since the mid 90s to do stuff like improve its cold start and such

when i was a kid, it was normal that a diesel engine would not be stopped if it was going to go again within 20 minutes or so, because restarting the engine did damage (mostly adding tar and shit to everything) and wasted fuel... not sure exact details of why, stuff about how the fuel needs to be hot, and every last bit of cold metal the vacuum-vaporised (by the high compression ratio of the cylinders) that was not at working temperature would result in poor combustion and promote tar formation etc etc

the original ICE was diesel, and it was hard to do gasoline without adding electricity, and that means, and still means a bulky battery, and there is still really no more robust battery for starter motors even today, than acid/sulfate

lithium batteries are a joke, they barely work until they are over 27`C and from about 35`C onwards they start emitting hydrogen, which only happens with a lead acid battery when it's really fucking hot

i understand chemistry and physics and that's how i know that diesel engines, even the fancy ones in most modern european cars now, can be modified to run without one single electron of electricity, just that doing so may be more tricky with some than others, just like it used to be a nightmare to work on a Subaru with their weird engine layout


lead/sulfate, i mean... obviously


gasoline yes, since about 1995 almost all have computers

diesel i think they started in the late noughties or early teenies


put it this way, i worked on a CT50 copy china made engine, tinkered with the electrics, and yes, gasoline engines require a spark, diesel no... but there was ZERO digital logic circuits on that bike, and this was circa 2008, everything was old school 6V analog, hard switches, solenoids, etc.

seriously, those who understand, will get it when i say that diesel engines will come back in a big way for utility transport when there is too much frequency of CMEs and the gagnetic shield of the earth goes through its' flip

it's going to be so bad that even electrical devices underground will still need some tin foil to stop the gamma from toasting the ICs


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Navistar_DT_engine.

They stopped producing mechanically injected DT engines in 95. But I know chassis manufactures still used them for a while after, I've seen them :P. So its probably pretty rare to find one in a later chassis, but they were built to order for a while and had lagging emissions standards compared to light duty.

A healthy Cummins 4B/T, 6B/T engines and even the DT360s generally weren't equipped with heating systems unless they were in for on-road applications. The major issue with the cold is #2 will gel up and requires mixing with #1 (kerosene) and can usually start up fine under 0*f. Starting aids were mostly added for emissions arguably. Many engines need starting aids, like International V8s, and later 4 stroke Detroits. As the engines wear though, they lose compression and injectors under-perfom and starting aids are helpful and can be required after a certain point under freezing.


For light duty, yes, computers started to hit the road in 1994 models with fully controlled the engines. For Ford this was called EEC-V Diesel Powertrain Control (DPC) V1. These controlled the Navistar (international) 7.3L engine. This era was my specialty. Ford started testing and writing firmware dating back to 1980 but it didn't hit the road till 94.

Chrysler followed in 95 for common rail Cummins engines, GM followed in 2002.

Volkswagon ran mechanically injected to 2004 iirc for passenger cars here in the US.


See, I was in Australia and my grandfather swore by diesel golfs. And yeah the main way to know it's computer controlled is the lower case i


truly little tanks those cars

i got to drive a fancy yuppie golf GT back in 2003, man, that thing had such stable suspension, it was like driving a train


4 door manual transmission golf's are priced by their weight in gold here in the US. Everyone I know that owns one drives the sack off of it and endlessly repairs it. They're so hard to find in repairable shape.


Yeah. But imagine how valuable one becomes in a global geomagnetic disaster...

It would be worth getting a brand new, custom cast and machined engine made IMO. The chassis can outlast several engines I'm sure.


Economically were already there with light duty trucks. For the cost of newer used trucks, it would be cheaper to completely frame-off restore a 2000s diesel truck, build an engine block and transmission, update interior and paint for less money. I'm thinking of just paying someone to fully restore my truck instead of a newer one. I can't afford to maintain a newer one either.


interesting... so all the electronics are actually raising the price beyond economic productivity of the truck?


Mostly the complexity and emissions equipment. The emissions components on newer trucks can cost nearly $20,000 if you purchase the replacement parts retail. Until 2003 most of these pickup trucks didn't have any add-on emissions control equipment, it was all done in software to meet the specifications.


and in reality, nothing really changed, but a bunch of bureaucrats got paid and a lot of useless junk got made and sold and the consumer is even more in debt because the vehicle has become literally more expensive than it's worth


That and they have the power to kick peoples doors in and put them in prison if they "tamper" with them.


the system is fucked up beyond all recognition

at some point the pressures of reality will force the matter, for those who aren't already prepared for the collapse


This is my plan currently


Interesting thread to read through
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