I'm starting to suspect that one reason some Bitcoiners are bearish on nostr is because they are stuck in the mindset that distributed networks have to guarantee message delivery, message permanence, and thus form consensus around that.

They don't understand that nostr network fragmentation is actually flexibility.


I'd be incredibly surprised if even a small portion of them have thought this deeply about Nostr. It's probably just an addiction to the doom algo and bullshit follow counts.


Fantastic framework and insight!


the shitcoiners also don't get nostr because it doesn't have a consensus

the whole point of leaving that open in nostr is that a consensus can be coopted, no consensus can't be coopted

it also allows for experimentation in distribution and even consensus strategies, look at what Colby Serpa is doing with his project... i've also experimented a bit with shared distributed database back ends and multi-level event store architecture


Absolutely, as long as information can move freely, it's good enough! There's no need for every relay to have an exact copy of all the information. A direct comparison to Bitcoin is incorrect.


Interesting perspective I agree


I thought it was obvious that nostr is chaos?


I think it's more so because nostr is a pain in the arse to use initially.

Once they get perma banned from twitter, then they will start to appreciate nostr and use it. Speaking from personal experience.


Yes, I think that's true. I came to nostr expecting everything to tally up and messages to be seen everywhere. Basically, I expected Twitter without the algorithm, toxicity and bots.

A short learning-curve later, I’m beginning to get it. It actually reminds me of early Twitter, where it was more of an online interactive diary we sent out into the ether.

It feels early and new and like anything is possible. It’s cool and I’m bullish AF on nostr.


I imagine there are a few relays, long since setup, saving absolutely everything and running some AI to discern some spicy takes and "monitor for activity of concern" be it now or in the future.

nostr:nevent1qqsyutgf2kt6cet5n957qeapasuq4fj9qx47a32hrcu65zr2xuqnuccpz4mhxue69uhhyetvv9ujuerpd46hxtnfduhsyg8h9rv7decysdvwwzfs7h9xfvyhwuxe38xds6z5lescak5u3gupqcpsgqqqqqqsejvfk5


They don’t understand the business model of running a relay. They were burned by “blockchain for storage” crypto scams.
But relays are like ISPs and users will pay to well-connected relays.
Who would pay to an ISP that is disconnected from 20% of the content online?


Theyre bearish because they dont get replies back from their favourite accounts
Gm


Right. You can both build a private clubhouse with limited access and fully encrypted message exchange, or a world-wide-web X client where you dump all messages on as many public relays as possible.

How do we make sure everyone can run a relay and such usecases can be super-easy to configure though?
And which apps exist that allow building of a clubhouse on top of your own relay, while also (from a UX PoV) easily allowing a user to swap to the X-interface when they're tired of the clubhouse? Surely the relay list should be somehow obfuscated away, while we all still are able to run relays to optimize the message decentralized storage where it is needed to avoid censorship?


there being no privileged, full global view nor guaranteed permanence is a feature, not a bug, imo it's exactly how freedom-preserving systems should work (and also how they can scale)
it's actually fine if some things are forgotten, not everything everyone said needs to be stored forever
bubbles can be fine too-not everyone is always trying to reach the entire world
nostr:nevent1qvzqqqqqqypzpaegm8nwwpyrtrnsjv84efjtp9mhpkvfenvxs487vx8d48y28qgxqqsyutgf2kt6cet5n957qeapasuq4fj9qx47a32hrcu65zr2xuqnucchf7j74


I'm not sure it's about that. Do you think many people care about their posts from years ago ? I save the important stuff on my own devices, but I couldn't give a shit if my whole message history was deleted tomorrow.

IMHO most are not ready to go "nostr only", or even "mostly nostr" because nostr is just very small compared to say, Twitter.
The point of a social network is to socialize, and so the network effect is very important.

So, as long as Twitter and/or other big social networks are functioning "normally", there is just not enough incentive to go nostr only/mostly nostr for most of them, and for most people in general.


You’re being too kind Lopp. Just call a spade a spade, they are literally retarded.


Choose 2:

1. Be smart
2. Be anti-shitcoin (money is all that matters on the blockchain)
3. Be anti-Nostr


I think that's definitely one reason. I think there's another major difference that's common amongst twitter addicts: they rely on "the algorithm" to gain followers and influence, which is s lot harder to do when there's no central nostr algorithm that rewards click/rage-bait and short gotcha arguments.


Nostr is trust maximizing tech.

A web of trust ensuring everyone being able to share their own truths among trusted ones. Thats the opposite purpose than ensuring global consensus on one single Truth.


I'm starting to suspect that one reason some Bitcoiners are bearish on nostr is because they are stuck in the mindset that distributed networks have to guarantee message delivery, message permanence, and thus form consensus around that.

They don't understand that nostr network fragmentation is actually flexibility.


They are thinking that hard. It is fear of being seen as making a mistake by the in twitter in crowd or being an seen as an outsider.


How about well curated relays?


I opened a new Twitter acc. recently, and it felt disgustingly abnormal… Both, the meeting an algo that doesn’t know me, and the amount of bots plastering my feed…


Can you expand on the benefits of fragmentation please?

Because honestly with just under a week on #nostr that has been my biggest struggle.

I’m between three different clients (albeit each has the same ~20 relays) because one client has more DM accuracy than another (though none of them are perfect and when I put @0xchat in the mix it got even more fragmented),

 Another client seems to do a better job of keeping track of replies and follows and zaps…

And the final one has the most capability and is device agnostic…but has the least accuracy (most fragmentation).

So its a mind bender for sure especially when you are trying to connect with people and have conversations.


Follow + zap = #fapped


Correction: You’re Bullshit AF on #Nostr

(This was meme caused by a misspelling from a well loved Nostr dev)


Yup same experience, also on X you’re constantly experiencing FOMO for the latest message, Nostr is more organic and chill, it’s nice to just to take what gets served up.


Cool, thanks. Gotta find someone to #fap now. (This could catch on)


Probably should #fap nostr:npub1mc20uche0cy599vpl850aschpu7wteundgsnf0msep79lu3fu5aq3r4ptv  they invented it


Justo algo en línea con lo que estaba pensando
nostr:nevent1qqsyutgf2kt6cet5n957qeapasuq4fj9qx47a32hrcu65zr2xuqnuccprdmhxue69uhkummnw3e8qatz9euk2emgwfhjuumfw3jj7q3q7u5dneh8qjp43ecfxr6u5e9sjamsmxyuekrg2nlxrrk6nj9rsyrqxpqqqqqqzsch89x


In nostr parlance, one is bullshit AF fuck sir