Gm,

Once bolt12 is fully adopted there is truly no reason to use Monero whatsoever


GM 🌅👑


GM sir 🫂🎨


He woke up and chose violence. 🔪


GM Sir


:coffee:


GM 🫂☕ utxo


GM,

and what's bolt12?


New lightning spec with receiver privacy, among other things


Correct!


Truth can not be violent as it simply exposes


Still grokking as to why I should care about Bolt12.

It looks like a way for a lightning node to publish a static request so a payment can go directly to the node, versus being routed through some online intermediary (such as a lightning address provider)

Does that sound about right?


There's still the actual friction of running a lightning node and managing liquidity

Sideshift folks for e.g. gave up and removed it from their platform when the operational headache and support tickets were more of a burden than the benefits of offering the option


That's only one small feature

The biggest one (imo) is when you make a payment, you can't see which node receives it


What is monero?


Will be nice to be able to withdraw from an exchange to your own lightning address and them not getting know your node. When will this be in LND?  Look forward to it becoming the standard.


I can't speak for LND but they currently do not comply with lightning spec so I imagine it's coming very soon


Ohhh, that is very cool. I’m sold!


Gm fam


It's true that it's harder I won't deny it

But maybe that effort is worth it to use money that is more valuable, can settle instantly and have virtually no fees, we'll see


Don't we also need all intermediary channels to be upgraded to v2 or something so that the node id doesn't correlate with the channel?


gm


GM


Good luck with that. Montero is still struggling with people refusing to use a local node. And it's super simple, it is part of the wallet. It just takes a while to sync for the first time. And these are the people that do care about privacy.


ayoooo
nuance?!

omfg


you have no idea if thats true or not because the network hasn't been stress tested at all yet.
maxis have been saying the same shit for fucking years.

the way it works is:
build the tech
implement the tech
try and break the tech
fix the tech
(repeat ad infinitum)

THEN maybe you have a real privacy solution.

quit trying to claim victory at step 1 and 2, you look desperate.


the desperation is palpable.
like, what exactly are they so afraid of??

just being wrong i guess...
nostr:nevent1qqsy6lgmpxlkar4cw8ppeucvwyxt3m26grvj57wrvtv4wqcsh3k7tdqppemhxue69uhkummn9ekx7mp0qgsw9n8heusyq0el9f99tveg7r0rhcu9tznatuekxt764m78ymqu36crqsqqqqqp5mu4cp


you don't know what you're talking about.

what struggle?


good PoW privacy on L1.


It reeks of desperation and defensiveness.

monero is literally just helping people make private ccensorship resistant transactions. and has been for years

whereas y'all are desperate to get people to use beta software that has NOT been tested in the wild.
because it fits your internal narrative better.

sad.


Bitcoiners copium it's not easy to run a LN node to have self custody and requires to be online 24/7 it will never be an option against monero privacy. And if LN get real privacy and chainanalysis couldn't link IDs to transactions all exchanges would be required to ban it, just like they did with Monero.


Tried to ad Bolt12 payment request as my tip adress. Can't tip it though. Is it wallet compatibility or nostr related?


HFSP


lol
another maxi limping along on three brain cells


Is it holding its value better than btc?


No, that's what BTC is for. If you need privacy, Monero is there to help.


frankly its ridiculous to talk about an asset as young as Bitcoin "holding value"

what you're seeing is VC money and institutions speculating on a new asset class. which is the only reason bitcoin is priced as it is in fiat terms.

that isn't "holding value." that's speculative interest by fiat hodlers.


I tend to agree. There are good and bad times to buy assets, that's why I haven't bought any Bitcoin since Jan 2023, and a chunk of that I sold on the way up because I prefer to bet on myself rather than markets.


90% of people saying "holding value" are actually talking about increase in fiat net worth.

Fiat price is not an irrelevant metric but it doesn't mean what most people think it means.
And simply that it's a fiat metric means that Bitcoiners in particular should take it with a grain of salt.


The absurdity of claiming that L.N. is already a privacy solution when bolt12 offers only have optional blinded paths shows that they don't understand anonsets.

The people promoting these tools are not the people that have real need for default privacy. They are simply religious fanatics and don't care about the facts.


I would rather have full transparency than a false sense of privacy. There are compromised nodes on monero activities are being tracked.


Poor choice of words maybe, you know what I mean

https://v.nostr.build/D4Nzp22vRF35IRnz.mp4


obviously not someone with a need for strong privacy.

if you want to actually learn something
(and not just repeat soundbites)
the leaked Chainanal video is here.
Good info about general CA techniques in the 1st half.

tldr
you can even use CA run nodes if you connect through a proxy (VPN or tor).
monero offers strong *default* privacy guarantees with a good UX, stable monetary policy and commitment to the cypherpunk ethos.

https://v.nostr.build/D4Nzp22vRF35IRnz.mp4


yeah thats a link to MY nostr.build homie. I'm paying for that hosting.

what's your point?


sorry misread your response to utxo.

you're absolutely right than most people will never use LN in a self sovereign way. they will opt for custodial,nonprivate solutions.

that wont keep these religious fanatics from claiming they've solved Bitcoin privacy because there's this thing that will be implemented soon™ that works for some people some of the time.


Its not a fiat metric but basic idea that a medium of exchange appreciates in value, be it fiat, basket if groceries or an ounce of gold.

Bitcoin's primarily goal is to detach the state from the money issuance – as evidenced by the inscription in the genesis block. Privacy, while a very important aspect of it, was never the only thing that mattered.

Monero folks always leave this side of the coin unmentioned while eagerly accenting how bitcoin is shit and monero where it's at because it's more privacy focused.


came to talk to yourself huh?
cause this is just a non sequitur.

nobody said any of that.


You mentioned Bitcoin increased in fiat shitcoin terms – I'm saying it's an increase in value, not only in fiat but in everything. Bitcoins buy more moneros today than yestrday. It's a shitty counter arguement used by Monero folks all the time.


you can only receive zaps with bolt11 lightning addresses

https://github.com/nostr-protocol/nips/blob/master/57.md


Onward 🫡

Onward 🫡


a bunch of VC money and fiat degens piling into bitcoin doesn't make its "value" increase
except in the most trivial fiat fashion.

fiat price increase != value

congratulations, youre a fiat maxi.


The average user isn't a nerd that wants to manage channels bro

"BUt they caN use An LsP OR CustOdIAN"

In other words, a reduction of privacy to the LSP/custodian and easy centralized target for feds to scare away or shutdown (i.e. Phoenix, WoS)


So time to dump Bitcoin and buy Dogecoin?

https://image.nostr.build/3742ce1f56ac5058803ffa11097bb6221d8101b424cbeace6f2fe0db619fc1bd.jpg


You can buy whatever you want, no shame in that. But you can't cheerlead an alt without looking desperate.

Bitcoin is not just about privacy, it's more about printer go brr. If you, the monero cheerleaders, can't grasp your heads around that, there's nothing to be discussed further.


I'm not buying anything. I'm just following your logic to it's conclusion to see if it makes sense to you.

Dogecoiners from 2020 and before can now buy more stuff than Bitcoiners can to this day. So according to your own argument you should start looking to get more Dogecoin.

This is why hyperfixation on price and trading pairs is dumb and leads to missing the bigger picture and entire value prop of Bitcoin. Especially when the whole ecosystem is hardly 15 years old. A baby.


Post your Bitcoin xpub for ***U L T I M A T E   T R A N S P A R E N C Y***

Make you private keys public if you really want to be a transparent boss 🚬


DOGE is a shitcoin with dismissal intraday volume, if you understand market dynamics, it's easy to see that thin markets are more volatile. The fact that Elon cheerleader a shitcoin, which rallied on that hopuim, is not the same as outperforming all tradfi assets on significant volume. There can be no analogy between these.
Monero cheerleaders look desperate, there's escaping that unless the attitude of these people changes.


Now you're changing the argument from "can buy more stuff" to intraday volume and volatility 🥅

Which is kind of ironic considering those are the biggest arguments against Bitcoin from TradFi normies

Really? Everyone in crypto is cheerleading for something here, buddy. You just happen to be doing it entirely for Bitcoin. At least I don't think Monero is the one and only coin and second coming of christ


It's more nuanced than a coin went up. I gave you the reason why DOGE went up and tried to explain why one can't draw analogies based on that.

FWIW, I own and use monero too, I just dont cheerlead for it at the expense of Bitcoin because Bitcoin's proposition is not just privacy – anyone with honest attitude can comprehend this simple truth.


Ok, I agree with you and that was my point, it is definitely more nuanced than coin X went up or down


No when we had Whirlpool there was no need to use Monero.

nostr:nevent1qqsy6lgmpxlkar4cw8ppeucvwyxt3m26grvj57wrvtv4wqcsh3k7tdqpzpmhxue69uhkummnw3ezumt0d5hsyg8zenmu7gzq8ulj5jj4kv50ph3muwz43f747vmr9ld2alrjdswgavpsgqqqqqqsh2xysc


I really appreciate your comment to your cause. Did you have an actual response to my accusation against your blockchain having spooks?


Did you watch the video? Because it sounds like you didn't

Using a compromised node for any crypto will give them your IP address. Thats just a fact of how the internet works. Monero is not unique in that fact.

What is unique about Monero is that they still had no clue how much Monero was being sent and to whom *despite* a user transacting through a compromised Chainalysis node.
They couldn't even definitively determine if that IP address was the one that sent that transaction.


Your absolutely correct couldn’t pin an IP in the video. I know security teams always show their very newest videos so those trying to keep privacy can keep ahead of them.

I am reminded of a scene in the princess bride, where the Sicilian “out smarts” the dread pirate who has poisoned both cups.


Your node isn't


Gm,

Once bolt12 is fully adopted there is truly no reason to use Monero whatsoever


"I know security teams always show their very newest videos so those trying to keep privacy can keep ahead of them"

I mean the video was leaked and attempts were made to scrub it everywhere.
We can speculate on just about anything like your comment above (i.e. Bitcoin private keys being crackable by some shadowy intel agencys secret super computer. If you're going to be consistent you should hesitate about owning Bitcoin then if we can make random claims with no evidence.)

The onus is on those making claims to show evidence for it. So far there is none.