Oddbean new post about login | logout I like edits or at least the theory behind them. I make typos. I want to fix the typos. However, nostr:nprofile1qqsrhuxx8l9ex335q7he0f09aej04zpazpl0ne2cgukyawd24mayt8gprfmhxue69uhhq7tjv9kkjepwve5kzar2v9nzucm0d5hszxmhwden5te0wfjkccte9emk2um5v4exucn5vvhxxmmd9uq3xamnwvaz7tmhda6zuat50phjummwv5hsx7c9z9 has convinced me that they're bad. His editing and the gamification of his edits are fun, but if hundreds of people in my feeds are doing this, then it would immediately degrade my experience. I would hate it. It would be annoying. I now see edits as an attack vector and a performance degrader. Maybe we need a maximum number of edits? 3? I don't know. I'm just thinking out loud. Maybe we just do away with them altogether? 👀 Thoughts?
Above my pay grade but would like to see a proper discussion on this
zap to edit.
that's a neat option, but it alienates new users.
if it ain't worth a zap, it has no value
We don't need edits. Be a man and lean into the penis butter.
Living the nostr:nprofile1qqsfvfrfyz498hmxsn5w8rczgyr5phu39zm7m35kj2jmchm5fmq76mqppamhxue69uhkumewwd68ytnrwgq3samnwvaz7tmjv4kxz7fwdehhxarj9e3k7mfwv96sz9nhwden5te0wfjkccte9ehx7um5wghxyctwvs206jnh life.
I voted for “Are you sure you want to post this?”
Some clients have an "undo" window of a couple seconds, so that's a good solution to "fix" typos. Some email clients have that too.
I’ve always said this is a good option, but I’ve only seen it implemented in two clients, and only one I use for specific purposes.
Bet
Mistakes are the best fart anyway. Right, @Dawn ?
I've trusted a fart before when I was sick. It was definitely a mistake.
You'd say the same to the brands that really care about keeping their image as clean as possible?
As a woman … I’m here for this. 😂😂😂 https://media.tenor.com/rh3UcF7V4KAAAAAC/bashame-meme-bashame.gif
you cunt do this!
Maybe there should be a toggled choice for the default of how an edited note appears on your timeline. Ie 'always show original' or 'always show edit'?
hehe, we hab same brainfart
that's not even a typo but two languages 🤣
Uh oh, sounds like user control
Show original with a button to see edits, a reverse of amethyst. If the edits were actually not malicious, then it just encourages you to see what changed.
3 edits should be sufficient. I screw up a lot, and even I don't need that many edits.
That would kill my Index updates (linked to in my profile), but then again there is the new "Table of Contents" NIP get might fill the void. Hopefully the Table of Contents offers unlimited updatability.
I like that notes can't be edited. It would be nice to be able to fix typos, though would it be possible to restrict editing to changing only single words? I think it's good that everything is permanent
They are editable on clients that support the feature. Namely Amethyst.
I hear ya. I loathe not being able to edit too. Not everyone is trying to cover up their past they just want to fix and ing! 💁🏽♀️ Since in best practice, the space is all about options, edits ought to be implemented. Performance degrader or not, that’s on the dev to fix.
How about 1 edit within 90sec of posting? You usually notice all your mistakes as soon as you hit post, so a short, one-time opportunity to make corrections would be ideal. And implementing it could be entirely at the client level. When you post, the client doesn't actually send it to the relays, but keeps it in a temporary, 90sec delay queue. That window gives you time to make an edit, and after that time is up, the delayed note is automatically sent to the relays. This way, relay devs don't need to do anything to make it happen.
Is their a nostr article outlining the disadvantages of edit and delete? is it too hard or spammy or just vibes?
https://habla.news/fiatjaf/ad84e3b3
ok, edits are too hard and messy. are deletes just as messy? why is Nos social the only client offering ?
Amethyst allows for deletes too. But you can't ever fully 100% delete something. It can mostly be gone, maybe 99%, but never 100%.
How about a preview of the note before publishing ????
This exists in Amethyst Drafts, and in long-form clients for long-form notes. In Amethyst it'll save your drafts to your phone's local Citrine relay if you put Citrine's relay address in your "local" relay field in relay settings.
One of the “features” that I enjoy about Nostr is the lack of editing and deleting notes (yes, you can delete if the client supports it but there are no guarantees it will be deleted). I think it makes interactions more authentic and more thought goes into notes because, like in real life, you have to take responsibility for what you say. You can’t just delete/edit and pretend it was never said.
This is how verbal communications work in real life. Verbal "notes" get instantly deleted.
There are several personalities on X or other legacy platforms that make tons of posts at the beginning of baseball season “Yankees will win it in 7” “Yankees will win it in 6” “Yankees will win it in 5” And so on, for every single team. Then, they just delete all the posts for every prediction that doesn’t come true. It’s a dirty game, this internet.
Get rid of edits. Makes client implementations much easier.
... also provides the opportunity for an enterprising client to offer tools that help catching mistakes before publishing.
No edits. no deletes. If you feel compelled to correct something, post a subsequent note that announces a "CORRECTION" of a previous note; but don't expect to be able to change the past. To the extent making typos bothers you, just proofread your work better before publishing it. Personally, I just don't let the knowledge that I made a typo ruin my day.
I would say the necessary number of edits is 0. If you made a mistake you fix it, or clarify it. Life is like that, you can’t delete time or past experiences.
No edits or deletes, Nostr is real life and there’s none of that in rl
Can you imagine if everything you ever said remained in physical form for everyone to read, review and scrutinize, instead of only existing inside the memories of the few that heard you say it? I'm glad I don't live in that universe.
No to edits. Just reply to clarify.
No edits in life.
truth
This is why people dont use nostr. Retarded decisions like this Edits are a big needed and wanted feature in this space
Why are you here?
He's right, nostr needs edits. It's stupid not to have them in some way.
No
Just wait and see. Nostr will have editing someday.
It already does
which NIP is it?
I just know it works with Amethyst and Ditto.pub
I'm on ditto, I can only delete & redraft 🤔
Amethyst: 3 dot menu >Propose an Edit (or choose Request Deletion, which, technically if you are rapid, works to remove the note so you can start over with a new one)
Because I deleted everything else 🤣
Honestly, why does it matter either way, what other people want, if it's not what you want? Can't people make nostr what they want & you guys not decide for them?
Yes, but developers also need to build something that doesn't hurt Nostr either. It's a balance. https://habla.news/fiatjaf/ad84e3b3
Lol I can't tell them what to do. They don't care what I think, and I can't blame them, because I don't think like anyone else.
For me, I see large text, scroll a little to the edited button once and see the original text. I don't see how this is any worse than someone just spamming really large and random notes. Not sure what edits have to do with it.
In the age of LLM generated content I see typos as charming and authentic.
This is a fair point and others have mentioned it too.
except you subhumans can't even be original in your typos you all make exactly the same mistakes mostly by misusing the apostrophe it's not charming it's disgusting
not all typos are "cute" like that, for example in a highly technical post a small mistake can completely undermine the message, or move the discussion to the typo instead of the fundamental point, which is really unconstructive
https://image.nostr.build/ffa89cfc72750a1912c2e1faaa72a30daa16bf670c32d863de3f278c0928d785.jpg
To be clarify, when I say “authentic” I don’t mean from a technical standpoint, but point very much taken.
Bless you're soul!
Thats wat im takin bout! 🫂
ChatGPT are releasing a new model with more typos. Youll never no. 🤣
Thinking more like grammar police that correct there, their, they’re
I'm firmly (and I mean FIRMLY) against the idea of restricting edits or deletion. Sure, taking back something you previously said is alright but if you have a lot of takes in the past that you don't want to keep online, you're going to look really bad. Plus, it's a major privacy concern. I've made posts in the past that were before I learned the importance of privacy. If I couldn't delete them, I'd be keeping myself open to doxxing, not to mention potential embarrassment. Some posts people make can also damage their reputation. If they made a comment that was written in frustration (or even under the effects of exhaustion or alcohol), their entire reputation could be irreparably damaged if edits and deletion didn't exist. I mean, we see how easily people get canceled for comments they made years ago and forgot about, and society today tends to not accept apologies even when they're legitimate and genuine. So yeah, no edits/deletion = no use for me. I like Nostr but if a basic function of user control and privacy isn't possible, I will not use it. It's objectively a bad thing and that's a Nostr hill I will die on.
Hard agree. Also we're all about people owning their data. But they can't edit or delete it? Doesn't add up.
I'm in your camp. See any issues with the NIP37 that fiatjaf linked to?
Sorry I should say, I'm against not having edits/deletes because of some puritanical/philosophical position. If they technically cannot be done at present or ever then that's the way it is and tough shit, it's above my pay-grade to determine that though.
Another view point. When you talk face to face to a person or a group of people, once you say something it can’t be edited or deleted. Although a face to face conversation flows at a much faster pace than typing a post online. Not having the ability to delete or edit may make people think more before pressing the send button. You have the time to do so. I am still open minded about having edits / deletes.
A passing conversation isn't a permanent record, though. Aside from memory, it's not stored ad infinitum. Moreover, if abuse/harassment occurs, such as the canceling thing, it boils down to hearsay. None of that is even remotely true without edits and deletion. Transparency for governments, corporations, money and software. Privacy for the people.
Your comment is well thought out. Look at NIP37 that fiatjaf linked to in his comment to my note and see if that allows your usage without compromising the protocol. It seems to. I think it may be the answer for clients to leverage.
I hate kind 01 edits. They make me agro, seeing them on Amethyst. Also hate kind 01 markup rendering. Going back to Nostrudel. And someone get me an "UPPERCASE to PascalCase" filter, plz.
s = s.replace(/\w+/g,
function(w){return w[0].toUpperCase() + w.slice(1).toLowerCase();}); I think easily viewable edit history is probably the right balance on this?
BULLSHIT ON THE DEATH OF EDITS nostr:note1e4xlux4r4gda2sq50yn5tm8gl2xpq4906xtud72yeuw74c542ggs0xmfpf
Yo veo mal, el mal uso que uno le pueda dar, nostr:nprofile1qqsrhuxx8l9ex335q7he0f09aej04zpazpl0ne2cgukyawd24mayt8gprfmhxue69uhhq7tjv9kkjepwve5kzar2v9nzucm0d5hszxmhwden5te0wfjkccte9emk2um5v4exucn5vvhxxmmd9uq3xamnwvaz7tmhda6zuat50phjummwv5hsx7c9z9 lo está usando mal, a propósito para verle lo malo
Instead of max_amount go for max_time. Usually you'll spot typos right after you bash sent. If edits were only possible for X minutes that would be enough.
He convinced me without his antics the first time the debate was brought up, but I absolutely loved the way he showcases it 😂 I like edits too, I am also fine with annotations, I also like min number of edits, but I am convinced that we should not scream this feature into existence. It needs to be very well thought out. Maybe a client will come up which will show us the right way to do this.
No edits, please :)
Maybe an annotation linked to the original notation
there is nothing to think about - we need edit history like wikipedia - you can edit as many times as you want - but every version is saved permanently. i don't care what @fiatjaf thinks about this. he disqualified himself from the position of being the supreme leader of NOSTR when he called for censorship. there was ever only one person who understood what NOSTR is about and that is me.
Maybe just first and last.
I don't think they are more of an attack vector than regular notes, just unfollow npubs abusing them. One could also publish annoying gibberish as regular note, where is the difference? Edits are often useful, you just really can rely on everyone seeing your root post also seeing the edits which makes them a bit confusing for users new to the Nostr concept.
What about time limited edits? You have a short window (5 mins or something) to correct annoying typos and then the ship has sailed. Probably a development nightmare.
Easy to put this on the client layer leveraging NIP37 as fiatjaf pointed out. People can do what they want, in the end, but as a client you don't necessarily want to cause people to change a note substantively that has seen significant engagement. So accommodating a quick typo fix is the ideal here.
Oh shhoiure. Juytsc letyy evrynd post udrreaxdble n(;nsensw. That wong cajze proldmz ay all.
Scary thing is, my brain made it easy for me to read that 😂
Your post needs some serious NIP37.
But "no edit"???
I think that is the edit answer. Allows the edit with chain of changes, or delete replace, depending on how the relay wants to handle it. Backward-compatible, accommodate simple fixes, or in a system that wants to be a mini GitHub for every post they can, use nip 37 to do that on their client relays. This is how I understand it as put forward. Just a matter of getting the clients to onboard it. See my other mock ups for Primal to adopt.
I'd ABSOLUTELY say no edits. I think it's part of the ethos of Nostr--and a reminder that Nostr is different--it's about privacy, and freedom of speech. No edits are a part of that-- Just like in real life--once you say something, you don't get to pull it back. Yes, you can apologize but your words are forever. So it is with Nostr. Think before you speak--both IRL and on Nostr.
No edits is the literal OPPOSITE of privacy and freedom of speech, what are you talking about?
Edits should just be comments that get prioritized to the top of the feed.
NIP37 would resolve this. Most quick edits of typos won't be substantive and would already be top-of-feed, so you're right in both cases.
I say, Yes to editing on the client layer, because typo. But, I say NO to edits on the protocol layer. There is a greater value to the protocol for the permanance of the notes than to a flexible note for the one user. Here's my thought process and where I arrived: I want to know that the post I'm looking at is the post that was placed, and the comments are about this version of it, and the repost are about this version of it. That's important to me as a community observer. As a contributor, I want to fix my typos. So, on those times that I look back and see a typo, it's usually right after I post it and before anyone has engaged with it. I just pop over to Nos.social, open the post. Copy the content. Delete the post. Go back to Primal, make sure it deleted, make the post anew with the typo fixed, and resubmit it for all to see without the typo. That workflow could be provided by Primal. Primal could let me "edit" whereby my original post would be deleted and the new version would be submitted as a new post. After my edit is ready, Primal tells me it's about to request relay deletion of the original post and submit this new version of my post, to which I confirm. That ability could expire after 5 minutes or some short term useful time limit, at the client level. But, I as the user am not inclined to do that anyway after someone has engaged with it. I'm more likely to just post a comment with the whole "I mean *typo." if it's even worth it. This is the case because the note's consistency after engagement is more valuable to the community than my ability to fix the typo is to me. This suggested functionality on Primal or any client is my ideal workflow on the protocol, while preserving the important features yet accommodating the necessary one for user experience.
https://github.com/nostr-protocol/nips/pull/1556
Your replica was interesting to read! It may make sense to be permissive to this, within the protocol.
If NIP37 is already a thing, then it looks like fiatjaf and others have already brought a solve for the clients to leverage. 🤙
We had this debate years ago on the Steemit blockchain... There's what I believe to be a very simple solution. Initially, Steemit allowed editing for typos and second thoughts for a brief span (~10 minutes?) after posting. As an author, I wanted complete control in perpetuity over my work, and fought for that outcome tirelessly. The final solution?🤔 Versioning. Each new edit is saved as a serialized version of the original post. Anyone seeking the "truth" about the ugly, typo-ridden original is welcome to dig back to ground zero, as nothing is deleted, while serious authors can fix typos they may have missed years later.😃
Great insight. I like both, but for different purposes. At a protocol level it's oft best to accommodate client desires openly and flexibly and simply. Do you see a fiatjaf describes Nip37 as offering the best of both worlds to the clients/relays on how they choose to handle it, with the end goal keeping a simple flexible protocol? Clients need flex to accommodate infinite use cases. That's the tough job of a protocol.
I hate reading a note, to which I wrote a word wrong or for some reason, I “ate” a letter. So, editing would be valuable - and I wish it was possible to see this tool acting on @primal; my favorite client. I don’t know the size of the impact that this would cause, but for sure, a test in practice could be done; and if it is found that it is bad, excluded later.
Important to differentiate microblogging and long-form. Bluesky, with its character limit, can get away with no edits. Substack, being longform, cannot, and so they have always allowed edits. Not seeing comments here make that distinction, and its critical. Long-form: there is just no way for Nostr to present itself as a viable option for creators and not allow edits. Microblogging: yes, a case can be made.
An edit mechanism that creates a new note that supersedes the original, while leaving that original intact, would be ideal. We all speak thumb.
@Derek Ross Thinking without edits sharpens clarity and intention. The discipline shapes better ideas upfront.
Edits could be fine... If you can also go and see the original note. That permanence will add a lot of historic value years down the road even for something as silly as a typo. The hardness of our words is important to me. We are etching our notes into digital stone.
You can see the edits. All several hundred of them.
Amor 💘 me dijo mi hermano
kind 1 are definitely used for technical discussion sometimes i don't think nostrudel, or the common clients, support posting anything else it would be less of an issue if replaceable notes were shown in the same timeline by clients, then people who want edits could use those and there would be no reason to fight about kind 1 technical details