We have various custodians in the Bitcoin ecosystem. Yes, I personally prefer non custodial solutions and will always help someone self custody their funds. But the act of the matter here is that the majority of Nostr users are using Lightning wallets for Zaps on platforms in which they control zero keys. Shitting on a Nostr custodian is a bit hypocritical in comparison when there's a good chance you're using a custodial Lightning wallet. We can be better here.


One client being a custodian out of dozens that aren't doesn't seem very negative to me. It seems like an outlier.


Building a client with no way to export your nsec, edit your relays, or change your Lightning address is shady af. Just saying.


Non custodial nostr is 1000x eaiser than lightning.

Custodial nostr has no point, just use twitter


Yes, but even for those running their nodes there's no simple solution yet, lnbits too buggy yet. I miss something inside lnd or CL. Or something that can be setup inside RTL, thunderhub or Zeus.


The irony is thick but I do agree. Myself included we all can do better. As  as long as there's enough educational material for people to run into and understand the difference.

I'll continue to educate and push for self custody in practically everything. But i'll try not to shit custodians as much.


Its so hard not to though. Dear lord.


Sats are precious but my custodial wallet always looks like this.. take notes new comers and dont receive on the Strike app as well
https://nostrcheck.me/media/kid_btc/nostrcheck.me_90ccc030b743677ca3c1ad556d40c879ce3ed2bfe80c9f78.webp


Fiatjaf uses zbd ?


I assume most use the custodial sollution as a budget wallet well i am at least and more importantly at any given point you can move to non custodial

For that zbd thing you are semi stuck you cant move out your npub if you build a significant following this is a isseu i think the critique is more than fair


Please let them rug pull my 2000 sats
Then we can all move on. Or not. #Nostr doesn’t care.


This is the single more depressing thing I’ve read today, and I already knew it.


You can't at this time. They said they were going to build an export. Let them do it. It's not even open to the public yet.


This is the way. Use it as a staging or temporary holding wallet.


I do get that. It's not the same comparison. But if we're going to go that route, comparing your bank account to your Twitter profile isn't exactly the same either. The same goes for Bitcoin and Nostr.


I’m even more interested to hear a single legitimate reason for not having it available. Is it not generated on device (why?)? How would using another client break ZBD (why?)?

Like, this is an example of a solution looking for a problem. We can onboard people today without shoving a long key at them. An export button isn’t a giant feat of computer science.


They continually say they're going to have this feature available. It's not even open to the public and you have to use shitty spamming and invite methods to gain access. It's clearly not a public project yet. Let them build this feature. They said they were going to. Check back in a few months and see if they kept their word.


I use LNbits 👀


Yeah exactly. Which is why I don't see why you would make a custodial version of nostr.


Bad take Derek


Probably because they need to push the users to KYC and if they switch away to other clients and wallets most won’t come back.


At least having the export option should be a bare minimum


A bit different imo.

If you have a balance on custodial lightning and lose it, you can just resume where you were with a different wallet minus some sats.

If someone abuses your keys or even leaks unintentionally, you lose your entire social history and have to start over.

Personally, I don’t care if I start over with 0 followers. My biggest issue is that I won’t be able to reach the same people I’ve built connections with. But clearly other people care a lot.


Did you know that if you use a linked ZBD gamer tag with third-party games, you’re not allowed to collect rewards in sats using a VPN? It’s all locked down.


Good point


I’ve been told:
* custody my keys, not your keys, not your corn
* Apple is a shit coin, run Graphene
* run vpn, etch my keys on friggin metal and bury it…

And so on and so on….

Why is this even a discussion? I’m so tired of seeing people become apologists for bad client behavior and pat themselves on the back when the pressure is finally enough to make them concede. Everybody is out for blood when someone not building for Nostr fucks up. How about we hold our own accountable as well?

Are we going to hold the line of sovereign computing or not?


That’s my point. I went through the effort to learn how to self custody my sats based on the advice of people I trusted. I keep less than 2% of my stack on a custodial wallet *because I trusted the people I heard stood for sovereignty*

And that’s a genuine technological limitation that I personally know people are working to eliminate and ease.


nostr:npub18ams6ewn5aj2n3wt2qawzglx9mr4nzksxhvrdc4gzrecw7n5tvjqctp424 is having a good conversation with three very intelligent purple cats: nostr:npub1r0rs5q2gk0e3dk3nlc7gnu378ec6cnlenqp8a3cjhyzu6f8k5sgs4sq9acnostr:npub12262qa4uhw7u8gdwlgmntqtv7aye8vdcmvszkqwgs0zchel6mz7s6cgrkjnostr:npub12262qa4uhw7u8gdwlgmntqtv7aye8vdcmvszkqwgs0zchel6mz7s6cgrkj nostr:npub1wtuh24gpuxjyvnmjwlvxzg8k0elhasagfmmgz0x8vp4ltcy8ples54e7jsnostr:npub1wtuh24gpuxjyvnmjwlvxzg8k0elhasagfmmgz0x8vp4ltcy8ples54e7js


It's hugely different. One is money and one is social. Your bank account isn't the same as your Twitter account.


Well that didn’t turn out how I expected. Trying again:

nostr:npub12262qa4uhw7u8gdwlgmntqtv7aye8vdcmvszkqwgs0zchel6mz7s6cgrkjnostr:npub12262qa4uhw7u8gdwlgmntqtv7aye8vdcmvszkqwgs0zchel6mz7s6cgrkj  nostr:npub1wtuh24gpuxjyvnmjwlvxzg8k0elhasagfmmgz0x8vp4ltcy8ples54e7jsnostr:npub1wtuh24gpuxjyvnmjwlvxzg8k0elhasagfmmgz0x8vp4ltcy8ples54e7js  nostr:npub1r0rs5q2gk0e3dk3nlc7gnu378ec6cnlenqp8a3cjhyzu6f8k5sgs4sq9ac


The Derek Beer Index doesn't lie. I haven't had beer with anyone from ZBD so I can't hold it to the same standards as Primal. However, I have played Brood War with Fiatjaf. I am open to new standards being born.


Medium.


No client has launched feature complete.


If you think about what we’re building here it’s of immense value to a user to have complete control over their identity. Sovereign identity at the protocol level. You don’t just piss that away.


Apparently a lot.


Agree. Banks accounts are disposable and social identities are harder to replace, especially if you have no control over it.


No client has blocked interoperability aside from ZBD


Yea. This is why I recommended the measures I did in the nostr design guide. As unfriendly to user as it may be, it’s necessary until we make something better.


That's the beauty of an open protocol. You can build however you want!


Custodial for just a moment though. Always moving off and into self custody. That should always be the common practice.


On Nostr your key is the house.


If any client takes custody of a user's private key, it deserves backlash. It's the worst kind of trust model; it's irreversible, and you're trusting them forever.

Imagine storing your sats in WoS once, and they gain the power to withdraw any amount of Bitcoin from your wallet for forever, whether you use it or not.


Exactly 💯


This is why I haven't bothered with zaps.

nostr:nevent1qqsx3yacy38kl84l27qxr5r8rv65vd3w28scmtrxx44040esamhwh8cpz9mhxue69uhkummnw3ezuamfdejj7q3q8ams6ewn5aj2n3wt2qawzglx9mr4nzksxhvrdc4gzrecw7n5tvjqxpqqqqqqzq928ek


From: nostr:npub15akupx5vysmuprv335yfd34ppnpz5h48gvu6pyj3whddecwf2z8s9vds8f


I would never share my private key and I’m just some pleb on here.

I don’t think decentralization can exist if there is not a set expectation that you will manage your private keys.

Managing your private key/s should be the expectation when using #nostr


Jfc really?


Yeah. I wanted to show my kid Sarutobi, which used to be an awesome way to stack a few sats. Now it’s tied to ZBD and I can’t do that anymore.


🤣 sorry funny sentence


What about your IP address? 🧐🧐🧐


I think ZBD is noting under Derek’s Npub or did ZBD pay you to note this?!

nostr:note10wltne55dqqxjc2qpteeanf2rgagxk9z7faxj8erfqlpzmafg8nsdpfm68


Please provide proof. You know, so we don't have to trust me bro.


I don’t really care if a Nostr client is a custodial as long as they explain in a FAQ that someone won’t be able to export their Npub and use another client.

Some people don’t care and like the convenience.

It’s a free market isn’t it? Why would freedom only equate self-custody? People can do whatever they feel like and are comfortable with as long as they have all the only layered out in from of them.


I know I said Id try not to shit to hard on custodians but they make it so easy.


Either this is a problem with ZBD for holding keys... or its a fundamental problem with Nostr.

Surely it's the latter, not the former? A key that I *have* to put into an app in order to post messages here, but that is impossible to change or retract later? That seems very naïve.


This is what happens if you try to score a few sats using a VPN. And if I turn off my VPN it will block me anyway because of my geographic location.
https://image.nostr.build/94fb1c25ab661933bb1cfaecaf2330a6f83ff252055317966a5213037819629f.jpg


Fuuuuuuck that shit.


I'll try to withdraw in a few days over a VPN and see what happens from the ZBD app.


there's literally antithetical to damn near every reason I got into bitcoin and why I enjoy nostr. The freedom. That legacy bullshit of geo-restricions is so counter productive and reeks of complience bro shit that im embeerased to have ever used the damned platform when I started running a nostream realy. Fuck.


ZBD works over my VPN (for now) but third-party apps like Sarutobi don’t.


Hmm that's not a ZBD created game though. It's a third party dev using the ZBD API I believe. Maybe ask the developer about that specific issue?


I dont have to use it or recomend it but damn thats annoying.


I won’t because I already know what their answer will be.


I'll email the dev.


Sure, here’s what you can say:

My friend is trying to earn sats for playing Sarutobi, but your partnership with ZBD is preventing him from doing this. He lives in a region that ZBD doesn’t serve, so he has to trick their server into letting him login by using a VPN to mask his location to connect his gamer tag. Your app won’t let him use a VPN to collect sats. Please allow him sidestep ZBD’s compliance rules, because he’s just a humble freedom-loving pleb. Thank you.


No
nostr:note1e7wp5atm75xpp0ct6hznsywd7e0fgmstfwpfvkuhzhcvlucffcnqn9qurq


Won't that make #Nostr onboarding more unfriendly to regular users?

But key-safety must be the priority.


I used it before also, but seems too much improvised. Not a final solution.