Lightning is in a very sorry state. Alby is the only thing that works, but when even Alby doesn't work there is no alternative. LightningTipBot was the only thing until it shut down. Is there any other option? We have dozens of clients with zap support but users who can't access it without getting a PhD in Lightning.


I have never had problems with lightning. Why you say it does not work?


WoS works fine if you're not in the USA. Blink is good if you're fine with KYC. Phoenix is my personal favorite these days.


ShockWallet.app


I use phoenix for stacking/storing. Breez for spending and Wos for receiving/managing liquidity. If I had to choose only one I would stay with Phoenix.


WoS still works fine (if you're in the US, use a VPN)


The simplest thing is to have 3 x RasPi, with channels between each other and say 10 large nodes. I’d aim for around 1,000,000 sats per channel and have 2 phones, one on Tor with Zeus and the other, in a different location running Blixt and Graphene OS.

Since I set mine up I haven’t looked back.


ライトニングのチャネルやノードの設定は馬鹿げている。


🐝 Bzzzt 🐝Alby with you! 🤍

🐝 Bzzzt 🐝Alby with you! 🤍


We could disappear and you could still run Alby Hub or Alby Extension! Did you get to try them?


I'm now using the hub/Alby cloud 👊☺


Horrible take. Every idiot can run a lightning node.

Source? My lightning node.


Sounds maybe like a squared peg in a round hole problem?


I honestly agree with this take. I have a lightning node running, and its been running empty for years. The barrier of channel management and all the different setup is enough to stop me from using something I'm intrigued by, but don't currently need. If it was like unboxing an IPhone I, and i think many others, would have it all setup and be using it much more. I'm looking forward to the day.


I've been thinking about how Lightning was designed for payments, but for donations (zaps) we don't need some of its defining properties:

- instant. It doesn't have to be instant. It just needs to pay out within a couple weeks. We can still have instant gratification - a promise of it - but you don't need the ability to spend it instantly.

- foolproof. This is a donation, not an exchange for goods or services, so there's no reason for someone to double-spend. And if they do, oh well, it was a donation anyway.

So my first thought it, for zaps, instead of Lightning why don't we just send regular Bitcoin with very low fees? You should get it eventually, and in the wallet UI we can show it instantly with a "pending" state.

Though I'm told this won't add up, and low fee transactions will be dropped. I don't know. Someone should investigate the lowest fee transactions that do eventually succeed to see if it's viable.

Basically I'm wondering if we can use Bitcoin directly and just work around it as a UX problem.


It seems most of the issues you outline are resolved by simply using ecash.


It seems most of the issues you outline are resolved by simply using monero :monero: .


if the goal is poverty yes


>says this while advocating for someone else holding your money


yes better hold your keys and go broke holding an asset heading for zero


Agree

nostr:note17t9y38yneggmlhw4ed6n8efhlhak7t2eqdlck0ragg52s6n35tpsdz0sjf


Phoenixd


What do I do with phoenixd as a non-technical user?


That's why I just use minibits ecash for zaps. I don't have time to worry about that shit. Actually being private is a plus and I could care less if I'm rugged for the $1.50 worth of sats that I was going to give away zapping others anyway.


Lightning is in a very sorry state. Alby is the only thing that works, but when even Alby doesn't work there is no alternative. LightningTipBot was the only thing until it shut down. Is there any other option? We have dozens of clients with zap support but users who can't access it without getting a PhD in Lightning.


Haven't seen you in years


This summer's been busy. But I've been (quietly) checking in on nostr


lurker


Alby hub backed by LND made me login to getalby for some apis.  Can I host the Alby backend AlbyHub talks to on my own hardware?


You don't need to be a node aficionado w/ many channels. Just open one single big channel to a well connected node and you're good to go. Top up when your channel balance is low just like you need to make sure there's some money in your physical wallet.


this scenario is still better than the promise of an asset, yes. like schrodinger's cat a promise is at the same time already at zero. asking permission = seeking denial


must suck living in your little bubble of a world


Study Ark protocol


Yes you can:
https://guides.getalby.com/user-guide/v/alby-account-and-browser-extension/alby-hub/alby-hub-flavors
JP


Can I host AlbyAPIUrl myself?

https://github.com/getAlby/hub/blob/fef85eba71169da0489ce7db84a482d8bf94fba8/alby/alby_oauth_service.go#L59


Yeah you're completely right, however for my needs, the cost of getting that initial liquidity is money I'd rather spend on stacking sats. Its really just a novelty/curiosity right now.


Well yea that's correct, you'd ideally need enough BTC as big as your channel size, and that's monetary wall/requirement. I already keep some BTC and I work in tandem w/ a CEX to open channels and move the lightning sats back to my CEX to retrieve the amount to HODL personally, and I understand that's not something everybody do/prefer. And I receive payment in lighting and sell things, not sure I'd go through all of it just as a hobby w/o that given the requirement of learning all that and channel opening fees (although they're much cheaper than I thought they'd be in right mempool environment).


I was trying with Muun and wasn’t able to zap you. Worked fine with WOS, if you find an option pls forward


>says while thinking Monero heads to zero

news flash from the real world: Monero is money. it is not investor or government friendly so the price is supressed. hard to get adoption from normies as well, so it stands well with only a handful of nerds, hackers and cypherpunks around the world. but when privacy and anarchy is the top priority, Monero is the number one choice, not IOUs of a potential high performing asset.


Currently Alby Hub is connected with the account and it links them together and loads some LSP info from the backend for example.
Currently the account is required (most people also want the ln address etc.) But in a future version it will probably also be fully stand-alone.


>the price is supressed

lol


That's not what the marketing account posted above...and "probably"?  😡

Alby seriously needs to be better 😔


I said "probably" because some features will be missing. E.g. our channel recommendations, or the channel auto-pilot, or email notifications. Those features then will have some static defaults or will require you to do something manually (like choose an LSP, setup the LNURL, monitor, ...)

You can check GitHub it's all there. Don't take the word here, I invite you to check the code there (and contribute issues and pull requests)


I tried the cloud-hosted Alby Hub. It's nice, but I want to be able to onboard other people, especially people on my team, so we can develop Zap features on Nostr. I think a Team account would go a long way to improving this.


I suppose you have to be at least a non-technical user without fear of having a vps, or without fear of deploying something in a click in one of these platforms. Once its deployed you can use something like alby hub, lnbits to interface it.
Its true that a super noobie wouldn't make it, but from my pov its the more reliable and easy to manage in setup with a good grade of sovereignty


Install #AlbyHub on top of it and enjoy not being techy ;)


Did you check "Isolated" type of NWC connection in the Hub? It could effectively create subaccounts/team accounts with separate balances but shared liquidity

Here is a demo: https://nwc-mint.fly.dev/

What would you do with such NWC string? ;)


Alright you convinced me/discovering  zap.store convcinced me. I'll have it setup in a week.


If you're thinking about mobile/remote nodes I'd like to warn you that I haven't experienced necessary levels of stability w/ them. Once I got my Mutiny wallet LN channel had force closed, and twice I had my Zeus on mobile device node channels force closed during getting a payment. IDK about Mutiny a lot but Zeus mobile light LN node uses a thing called neutrino mode and I found that can leave you vulnerable to forced channel closures if/when there's bad wireless latency during receiving a payment. My best guess is that the mobile wireless latency rising from wifi connection and neutrino mode is causing channels to appear down momentarily or something, which's causing force closures when someone tries to initiate payment to you. I've found a wired connection and a 7/24 online full LN node (no neutrino mode, light wallet) on a raspberry pi to be much less annoying and much more stable in terms of maintaining stable LN channels w/o force closures. Personally I used BTCPay Server's LN node functionality. to have access to underlying OS while still having an easy to setup LN node. Also Zeus LSP (lightning service provider) has expensive channel opening fees vs what you can open a channel to a known big node yourself, and worse routing fees than you can find via opening a channel yourself. I opened a channel to Kraken's node and it's nearly free to send/receive for me now.


Nice. I have my raspiblitz node running, I'll check out BTC pay server. Then just use whichever mobile wallet to connect back to my node. Good to know about Zeus channel cost. Definitely prefer to have complete control over everything I can so I'll avoid that


raspiblitz node should be fine and enough I think. I used BTCPay server just because I don't enjoy letting the node prevent me from using the rest of the device, given the low system resource use (or rpi5). Solutions like rasppblitz come w/ their own image and since they're not a traditional os, they prevent you from running other stuff on device, using for other things. I've used Amboss Space to trial and error where to open channels to. Tested opening channels to big players list. ACINQ has higher incoming fees, 1ML.com node ALPHA is a node only to confirm node ownership, doesn't route shit, CoinGate has good fees but can't route shit (in my experience). Has been a trial and error experience. Consider your use cases and check where the nodes are connected to and their routing fees tab on Amboss Space. You'd think there would be guides about where to open a channel to, I haven't encountered personally...

https://m.primal.net/JpGq.png

https://amboss.space/

https://m.primal.net/JpGx.png


Quickly overwhelming haha.


Hahaha it gets involved quick, yes. Just open a channel to Kraken if you're in USA and your use cases are USA based to skip the "which channel?" part if you wish. Wallet of Satoshi channel might be more interconnected w/ European nodes and use cases, I guess. While it's true that opening one single channel to a big player is causing centralization in the LN system and it's not ideal use, and ideally you'd want to open many channels to less centralized nodes to use it closer to the initial spirit and ethos of Lightning Network philosophy, in reality it can get more frustrating when you open a single channel to a low key node/player in the network and get frustrated when you find yourself you're unable to route payments  ¯\(ツ)/¯

Lightning is very fascinating in idea that it's completely removing centralized ledger and making it more decentralized in some ways. Having to rely on big nodes/players is a hurdle at this point I can only hope we'll overcome via protocol improvements/upgrades in the future.


Appreciate the help!


This quickly turned into a bait and switch, haha.
- self custody LN's easy bro.
- oh yea.
- 🤪
https://m.primal.net/JpIZ.png


Where are the instructions for non-technical folks?


Hey, try here: https://guides.getalby.com/user-guide/v/alby-account-and-browser-extension/alby-hub/

We're also hosting onboarding sessions, come over! https://cal.com/getalby


Not the only one saying this, by the way.
nostr:note1dapz7a4n73z7d7tsgjy440tcdrc8fmrknjeztfdrzx4ydqdmcj7qlwypt5


Yeah, you know I looked into it again and just thought, when I need it I'll use custodial. Not worth it until the UX is easier because right now the barrier to entry is too high for the normal person that it won't catch on.


That's right. I sell things using LN and I was fed up w/ Alby's %0.24 or something cut and constant nagging that I go over their limits. Worth the hassle if you're merchant perhaps, not so much as a user, perhaps, when you have convenient custodial services. It's just they need to package things in much more convenient ways. Lately Alby released their "Alby Hub", it looks a bit convenient but I'm not sure if it's recommending you channels and stuff. It has versions of hosted by Alby or self.
https://guides.getalby.com/user-guide/v/alby-account-and-browser-extension/alby-hub/getting-started


Yes it does recommend channel partners (LSPs)!