But gradually... 
Just handling a private key or dealing with an extension itself takes a bit of learning.
Read relays & write relays and paid & public -- everything at once is a bit confusing tbh 

 Here is something the users are doing. 

nostr:note1q2z9yjaluwjyg4t0ma8xc76pcrse4vaqg4wnlcjrexxhqp99twzsnkp7dj 

 nostr:note1d4kjn2qctkqx29jhd09jl7qeqzfpgj0e96uj6339v0lq8rgtfu5qwytj23 

Highly disagree, users need to be educated, if you show gibberish to users on their face, they will get scared and never come back. 

Good nostr apps, would solve problems while abstracting everything other than the solution. Nostr internals only need to be exposed to the users on a need to know basis.  

 While I say this I do agree that for users that are aware, apps should be configurable enough to tinker with the nostr internals. 

 We can have a settings where geeks can ✅  the "advanced options" which are hidden by default. 
No need to complicate things.  

 Yep, exactly my thoughts. 

 🪪

Don’t be shy 

 What @fiatjaf says is painfully true.
This means learning and building a new UX paradigm, for a better future. And being patient and kind in its broad adoption.

nostr:nevent1qqsx6mff4qv9mqr9zetkhje0lqvspys5f8ujawfdgcjk8lsr359572qpr4mhxue69uhkummnw3ez6ur4vgh8wetvd3hhyer9wghxuet5qgsrhuxx8l9ex335q7he0f09aej04zpazpl0ne2cgukyawd24mayt8grqsqqqqqpyytrzg

#nostrdesign 

 would make exciting marketing penetration 

Currently, tech enthusiasts, individuals with limited speech freedom, exiled from other platforms, seeking milder alternatives, Bitcoin users, and people with general social needs.

but i think planning out localisation strategy and engaging people here who want can contribute in some ways but are not programmers to onboard - city by city and eventually grow state by state, country by country would be a nice strategy to have. It could be from local relays, local news, local community stuff etc - and might give a nice balance to all 3 types of relays - private, public and third type of relay - was it community based? (i forgot what's the 3rd type of relay lol)

 

 I also think that the local, togheter with family and individuality, are great starting points.

Maybe "Topical relays"? :) 

 true. And hobbies too. maybe the fishing community, there is woodworking community that is quite impressive, home schoolers and more 

 I think the only viable way to differentiate a relay in the long term is being topical. Not much tools for that though  

 100%
Tools are evolving. 

 Exactly.

And someone is cooking something for them to make this possible, right @cloud fodder? :) 

 Yup!  😁 I think many more types of relays and  clients will be coming out as nostr progresses.  I've been working on a vision for relays where topical is one of the types that you can create/discover/join.  Relay.tools  

 NEW PARADIGM 

nostr:nevent1qqsdh2r3d8e5fsn64u5kk55afmucrhjct3qv8cejpgtdr3unlcly54qpp4mhxue69uhkummn9ekx7mqzypaaaaa7ytwcuk05vq8qgj498gw0jadfm37j0h6cxw780kmcffvq2qcyqqqqqqg37075g 

 Slight disagree. The key is not to show urls and/or intricate details of the protocol. The key is to hide them behind a design that truly embraces, and maybe even reinforces, the benefits of an open protocol. Learning what a relay is should be a natural endeavor when the user is ready. 

But yes, simply copying Twitter is never going to work.  

 There are a ton of things that 20 years ago, people would complain were too complicated and the average user would never understand them.

Now these things are more commonplace because we've all had time to get accustomed to them.

When was the last time you heard the complaint that that funny 'a' looking thing was too technical? 

 You said it, 20 years ago.
And there weren't any big corporations that captured billions of people on less than 10 platforms, built with the focus to lazy people and put them on a consumption habit.
We are fighting a different beast.
But we need to, so let's go :) 

 👍
nostr:note1d4kjn2qctkqx29jhd09jl7qeqzfpgj0e96uj6339v0lq8rgtfu5qwytj23  

 Completely agree, especially on the JSON. Only client i know that makes this readily available is Gossip and I miss it when Im using other clients. Exposing the JSON would help people see how it works. 

 ive just discovered that https://satellite.earth makes the json available

nostr:nevent1qqsrkvz4kdaehrjfptupkt6p23ukw7pxhl8c2adklwg3te42gqw58jqpvemhxue69uhkv6tvw3jhytnwdaehgu3wwa5kuef0dec82c3309urvur209cxgdrjxacksvn809ek56rkdfjrjmpjddknv6rwd56xzmtyde48j6nhxv6rvdmx0ycr2unxxpckvuphddaxz0mzwfhkzerrv9ehg0t5wf6k2q3qyx6pjypd4r7qh2gysjhvjd9l2km6hnm4amdnjyjw3467fy05rf0qxpqqqqqqza4rrt4 

 Nostr.band & Nostter also make json available i think 

 the simplicity of the protocol (everything is a json event) is why so many are hacking on nostr. seeing the raw payload can spark a tinkerer’s imagination. the big platforms are private, permissioned, and complex - not developer friendly. nostr is the opposite and should lean into it. 

 anecdotally, I do this shit for a living. I used to hack on matrix and abandoned it when nostr came along. the LOE is so great with nostr. 

 I have already tried several that have the option to view RAW data
 

 This could make an interesting behind the scenes mode. 

 Hmmm I think I disagree...

Open != technically complex

Nostr UX will continue to improve and in a lot of use cases that will mean abstracting the complexity away from users. I agree that we shouldn't abstract at the expense of openness, but the good UX breakthroughs won't.  

 What advantage would that have for the average non-technical user to show the cryptography and json?
Wouldn’t an on-off switch in settings be a good solution?
Though I do believe relays are pretty user friendly as it is always just a domain. 

 when you see people list their alts, eg. find me on bluesky, minds, gab... etc the nostr non-hyperlinked npubs stand out as a weirdo, which is a good thing (i know some people link to their primal, njump or snort page too).

relatedly, I would like to see nostr being used more in the shortterm by people listing their 'find me here in case my account gets deleted). It's the ideal placeholder link for people who keep getting suspended. 

 Why would an app want or need to show that? 

 Agree with the first note, disagree with the second one.

Not because apps SHOULD be afraid of displaying gibberish to users, but because the second note lists the 5% least interesting aspect that the first note explores 

 Tell me you don't salivate a little every time you see an nprofile. 

 You can have apps built on the protocol. You don’t need to know how to do DIY encryption and signatures and signature verification to 💩post. 

You can have a 🚗 built on centuries of improvements of ICE tech. You don’t need to know how a carburator works or how to fix one to drive the car.

In both cases you can and should be able to look under the hood, for those willing and able. 

 Also, I queued a note in Shipyard that will publish later today that roughly says what you wrote.

I knew I should have implemented OTS on Shipyard earlier!!!! 

 Blame @pkt. 

 makes me think my @nostrcon talk should be more a layman's intro to the tech side of nostr than only an intro to cryptography

this could also be adapted to the crypto amd privacy village at defcon next summer with more tech specs 

nostr:nevent1qqsx6mff4qv9mqr9zetkhje0lqvspys5f8ujawfdgcjk8lsr359572qpr3mhxue69uhkummnw3ezucnfw33k76twv4ezuum0vd5kzmqzyqalp33lewf5vdq847t6te0wvnags0gs0mu72kz8938tn24wlfze6qcyqqqqqqg38qddy 

 It makes perfect sense. It's not worth hiding what's going on behind the scenes.
Anyone who wants to see it can see it, anyone who doesn't want to see it doesn't have to click on 'RAW data' 😀
The main thing is to not take that possibility away 

 I think it should be thrown in the faces of people, even those who don't want to see. 

 It seems a bit exaggerated to me, but I respect your opinion