If the BTC devs don't start baking in privacy on a protocol level, BTC will become the CBDC.

The clock is ticking.

https://i.nostr.build/KGjyW.jpg

#cybersecgirl


I disagree. We want Bitcoin to be transparent if we actually want it to be country level international monetary system.

Privacy can happen on other layers.

Privacy on the protocol level will make Bitcoin a toy.

Just my humble opinion.


Is there anything in the pipeline, privacy wise that can be incorporated?


Privacy is currently the main issue for #Bitcoin and #Nostr. If we cannot separate Bitcoin from government bans on coin mixing services or any other methods aimed at enhancing our privacy, and if we cannot decentralize Nostr from its reliance on centralized DNS systems, we will find ourselves in a privacy crisis.


I would say nice try FED.


If BTC is to continue in any sembilance of its former self, it needs to adapt and grow on a fundamental level towards privacy as a default...on a protocol level.

Though, I do fear it may already be too late.

#cybersecgirl


I want development and improvements including some privacy improvements but unwilling to compromise on many of the transparency essentials.


Its the other way around really...

Nice try Government. You are not hiding shit from us. We want to see every tax dollar.


Fair. When it happens.


When it happens.


It has to be auditable from a supply standpoint. Anyone should be able to verify supply. I think privacy happens at the transaction point like with eCash, or at the wallet level, like every wallet is built-in coinjoin. Or we just decentralize the shit out of coinjoin services so there are hundreds of options so the baddies are overwhelmed (same goal as the former). Unfortunately I don't know enough about the technical stuff to form an ideal situation. But if ANY questions of supply exist it's all fucked I think.
#bitcoin


I'd dare to say BTC is already the cbdc version of gold or whatever. it's already adopted by establishment, it's already a bankster coin, it's already on government's hands. almost pointless, tbh.


P sure it's already too late
nostr:nevent1qqsvd77afhtezjtuptpk3tcc3aq0v9sh3jkcft0lg674cakwkqpydcqpz4mhxue69uhhyetvv9ujuerpd46hxtnfduhsygzwhzp3p445ak2ud4n289dn6084txu9ltkg7a53mt75qk5jup2ad5psgqqqqqqsanjalm


resist ☠

resist ☠


In the mean time, coinjoining with Wasabi is alive and increasingly decentralized. The feds created a hydra. https://wabisator.com/


There has not yet been a  base layer privacy proposal where the fully transparent audit function GETUTXOSET can coexist with fully confidential base layer transactions.
However there are huge improvements coming with silent payments, payjoin, and L2s in general. Privacy is improving.


botpay


Bitcoin has already failed at being money. Monero is the new bearer of this use case.


https://aantonop.com/ watch and read all of his stuff


you're the boss, ser


so few can see this...


Great post 👍

Great post 👍


centralized SERVICE was shutdown


#cbdc and #chatcontrol will turn the #EU into a digital prison for the common folk


Ever fewer can see that it'd been the CBDC from the very beginning and has normalized insane amounts of transparency!

A bank account was bad enough, the bank can see all the transactions, the government can and does spy on the bank to spy on the customer, and the bank can and does sell customer data to third parties. And don't get me started on VISA/MasterCard being there in the middle so essentially a pretty good chunk of the world's financial data ends up at the NSA & co. And it's all neatly tagged (KYC).

Then along come cryptocurrencies, and now it's not just an institution that can look into your shit, oh no! IT'S THE WHOLE WORLD!

Forever, and retroactively!

And people don't see a problem with it until about 15 years later, and even then they resist and resist and resist!

Even more puzzling, they reject the tool that does the sane thing (#monero) (only you can see your transactions, like cash) because it's not part of their religion/football club!

Amazing!

But wait, it gets even better. They also rationalize why Bitcoin should not have privacy and anonymity baked in, because of inflation bugs, of which Bitcoin has had two whilst being as transparent as a Socialist's lust for other people's money!

Sometimes I think I'm from a different planet. The whole thing just seems nuts to me.

The way I see it, this is very simple.

If we are spied on all the time we're being stalked and hunted by a giant parasite-predator that does not have our best interests in mind.

This thing is infinitely more powerful than any one of us. We can try to limit its power, human history could be viewed as repeated attempts and failures to do this.

An excellent way to keep it in check is enough of us not accepting constant pervasive mass-surveillance, because then we can't as easily be picked as targets individually (less data to make a targeted choice).

It really isn't so hard to understand.


This is a common faq.

See https://www.moneroinflation.com

You always have to trust something, it is perfectly possible to audit an opaque supply if you are willing to trust a few more cryptographic primitives on top of the usual stuff.

Not a bad tradeoff imo.


If the BTC devs don't start baking in privacy on a protocol level, BTC will become the CBDC.

The clock is ticking.

https://i.nostr.build/KGjyW.jpg

#cybersecgirl


He's a Monero proponent.


Monero atomic swaps already exist.


I want to see not even one tax dollar. Taxes are theft. I want to stop governments from collecting taxes without consent. Monero helps us achieve this goal.

And in case of a voluntary society one can also publish viewkeys. Optional transparency is the way forward in a voluntary society where organisations want to be trusted/funded.


You tick two boxes of being a Fed.

1. Defends taxes/theft.
2. Hates on Monero


Well the government and its associated big corporations are hiding how much bitcoin Blackrock and most other ETF’s are really holding because most are using coinbase as a very centralized steward of any hypothetical coins they may or may not own.  Market manipulation from coinbase along with other exchanges can and does happen.


Wise.


I believe Saylor with $mstr keeps his bitcoin with the super centralized and cloaked coinbase.


And you tick the boxes of being the other Fed:

1. Defends unlimited supply.
2. Like Monero.


Maxi mindset.... You know you can own both?

I value Bitcoin for its strength and I value Monero for it's strength.

I am as much for a limited supply as I am for privacy rights. But when my personal security is on the line, I value the second higher. It's all about tradeoffs.


I’m not the one who wants to force Monero thinking onto Bitcoin!!!

Keep Bitcoin as is. Use Monero for privacy.

Why the fuck you want Bitcoin to be Monero???????


I know.

Many Bitcoiner do not know that this happened from 2019 to 2024 within Monero. They just scream NGU vs XMR. Since Binance fully delisted Monero in May  the price already reached a two year high within 1 month.

Bitcoiners thanks to ETFs now will be confronted with thc same problem Monero encountered while being listed on CEX. Absorption of buys thanks to paper BTC.


I don't. I use it exactly as you describe it.

It's just that better privacy on BTC prevents it from becoming a non-inflationary, still easily taxable CBDC replica.


I am solely proposing the use of Monero alongside Bitcoin. Especially for newcomers who deserve privacy out of the box.


Do tell how BTC will be forced to be spent by government goons and taken on a whim by government goons

I’ll wait with 12 words in my head


When the roman empire was still a thing they transact mostly with silver then gold. I think sound money is gold, silver, copper and bronze. Even plebs went to work for bronze coins. For privacy, xmr is up there.


I agree.


People are people, if they bought BTC or not, does not make them smarter. Most just repeat what they heard somewhere and many can not reason on their own, they need a parent/authority their whole life to tell them what and how to think.

Maybe the early Bitcoiners were a different breed but most people who came in the last couple of years are dumb sheep. who joined a new religion.

A part of me is happy that they dont get stuff sooner, most business opportunities develop by seeing things everybody will need or want in the future much earlier and acting on it.

The other part of me hopes they will get it before it is too late.


The worst is when there are enough of them now repeating the same dogma and they think they're smarter than everyone else because their little bubble agrees with them AND they block everyone who questions their 21 commandments.


very much true.

Privacy needs to be improved. And that is why I don't like any of those shitcoins like ETH/tron/solana. I respect its utility with usdt to onboard to #Bitcoin much like fiat but that's about as far as I will go.

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no 😂


the problem is that monero is a shitcoin, inflation bug will only be the fun way you shitcoiners will be rugged, but it is not the main problem.

If after the invention/discovery of digital scarcity we print out new "better" digital scarcity and use it based on their utility purpose, then we have no more digital monetary-scarcity. There's no limit to the supply of a digital object that moves on the internet in a private way, and so the expected price of a single unit is zero.
Theres not internal scarcity (no hardfork-resistance, so a change in the monetary policies could be just being put in the next update from the team©) and there's no external scarcity (you can copy-paste a new better monero for when the fees goes up, so to scale the digital privacy to the world).

#Bitcoin is convergence on standard unchangeble rules. One of this rules is the monetary policy and the 21 millions.
Every digital scarce object that is not bitcoin admit the possibility of infinite digital scarcity, and this is a paradox; every digital scarce object that is not bitcoin will not gain monetary premium and will go to zero after the bubble of hype will vanish.

These are the scenarios:
1) Bitcoin become the money of the world, shitcoins go to zeros.
2) Bitcoin fails and goes to zero, shitcoins go to zero. After some decades we can try to restart the bitcoin project with the new experience we as humanity made understanding why it failed.


Black and white thinking as always.

You refuted exactly zero arguments from the very well-written website above, which by the way is what always happens when the matter comes up. Because you don't actually have any valid arguments, and therefore devolve into ad hominem attacks.

It's cute you believe in digital scarcity as an absolute thing, meanwhile Bitcoin has actually had an inflation bug in the past, which if you would stop regurgitating dogma for a minute you would understand the implications of that as it applies to your argument.

But tempered rational thought is not usually the mark of a religious zealot.

Moving further, in a classic display of projection (because it's an all or nothing, black and white thing to you), you imply that any other project that addresses a shortfall of Bitcoin has inherently as its goal the overthrown of Bitcoin.

I'm not even going to list the many alternative interpretations (and there are many, believe me),I'll leave that as an exercise to the reader.

You also seem to conflate scarcity in Bitcoin (let's for a moment assume it is bug-free enough that we will never see something like that happening again, an assumption I would like to hold true btw, unlike you, who resentfully desires us "shitcoiners" to be rekt because, essentially, we don't follow your church) with digital scarcity in general.

Seeing as this is all open-source and the cost of copying digital information is essentially zero, it is no surprise we see many cryptos nowdays. And honestly the situation is a lot better than it used to be (even though there are a lot more projects), because there is a lot of really cool technology being developed (and yes, I appreciate that you don't and can't appreciate this, since for you by definition anything outside Bitcoin is a shitcoin, therefore you never really look outside that box, therefore you could never really know what you're talking about).

However, it still seems rational to me that for the explicit purpose of protecting oneself from fiat debasement, Bitcoin is the best choice.

Unlike you (because I'm not a zealot), I don't think that could NEVER change, but I do find it extremely unlikely (and have allocated my resources accordingly).

To finish, your assertion that "there is no limit to the supply of a digital object that moves on the internet in a private way" is just that - an assertion, and a faulty one at that. I would suggest you actually read and study the site linked before in order to reach a more nuanced conclusion.

Furthermore, you're also assuming, once again, that it is an all-or-nothing proposition, when it isn't; having a blockchain that is opaque and therefore vastly superior for the single purpose of transacting anonymously and privately is a valuable tool in the arsenal against pervasive mass-surveillance.

This does not mean, and does not have to mean, that it is a better tool for everything else too, and it does not mean you should stake  your fortune on its fate and unlikely success as a replacement for Bitcoin.

More than anything else what annoys me about you maxis is that you can't seem to grasp those elementary distinctions because your minds are polarized and you seem to live in a bubble of people who think the same things. And then unironically refer to others as NPCs.

Bitcoin is just a tool, Monero is just a tool. Relax. Use the best tool for the right job, don't be a religious nutjob.

Or don't, but then at least don't murder the truth.


the ad hominem part was soft and well contained in the first sentence, then I used argumentations.
I dont need to confute the info in the site, as I sayd the point is not inflation, is monero being a shitcoin.


Got it, so monero is a shitcoin because monero is a shitcoin.

I bow to your superior logic.


because every attempt to create digital scarcity different from bitcoin is a shitcoin and trigger the paradoxes of scarcity cited prior.
These paradoxes are conceptually hard to realize today, but they will be clear to all in the future, when the shitcoin hype will decrease (in reality, if you observe a historic price graphic of shitcoins/bitcoin you can observe already these processes in action).


"absolute scarcity automatically equals value" is a fallacy

Value is subjective. Value is a function of supply AND demand. You can't control demand. Any good btc maxi that is obsessed with austrian econ should know this 101 fact but surprisingly few do.

That should be plenty to at least ponder that you might be wrong.

https://github.com/libbitcoin/libbitcoin-system/wiki/Scarcity-Fallacy


I admit the possibility, even not so improbable, that even if bitcoin is a scarce resource could fails to detain value for some reason.

I admit also the possibility that some shitcoin could detain value for long time like or better than bitcoin, but I consider it less possible than a scenario where dog-like aliens come to the planet earth in flying toyotas ufos singing taylor swift songs.