#monero is not a shitcoin. it's *the* coin for untraceable privacy. stack btc, use sparrow's whirlpool and spend anonymously with monero. it's privacy by default.

#cybersecgirl #privacytechpro #monero

https://www.getmonero.org/


privacy by default issa dangerous stance to project

https://youtu.be/P1PRKKlI-Jo?si=HszkM6V3xNAjHV5U


Zero Knowledge proofs are the future. Pirate Chain and Dark Fi


It's my later 2 and absolutely not ashamed to say it
nostr:nevent1qqs0v26pza95lmeqaz7lyezc79zws64n6tf8y55anppmh8002m2st7cpzpmhxue69uhkummnw3ezuamfdejsygzwhzp3p445ak2ud4n289dn6084txu9ltkg7a53mt75qk5jup2ad5psgqqqqqqs9kmulv


Dark Fi sounds to good to be true at the moment but I'm hopeful


i disagree with the talking head. what point, in your words, are you trying to make...specifically?


ill come bak to this later


Thanks.

I haven't watched the video yet but I suspect it's about the legal scrutiny such projects attract.

I am wondering how solutions like Cashu or Fedimint can eventually move the lines.


no. watch, then comment. it's a biased btc maxi's perspective on monero. all 1,300 views since 2022's worth.


Ive heard people say bitcoin is like a cockroach. Wrong.

Monero is the cockroach. You dont know how many there are nor where they come from.

But you know they are there and will continue to be there.

Does it matter they are not the apex predator? Absolutely not. They exist, persist, and cannot be stopped.

Hardliners on this believe devs should spend their time on bitcoin privacy. Thats a way harder problem. To reject iterate towards that and neglecting a superior privacy preserving payment method in the interim is imprudent.

This shitcoin shaming is tiresome and does more harm than good.


Not to mention its a better vol dampner than a fiat or stable if your cost of capital is BTC.

If you believe in BTC but want to prefund expenses for X time or Y amount away from BTC vol, XMR is better than stepping back into debasement land USD (stables) for X time or Y amount.

https://www.coingecko.com/en/coins/monero/btc


ZK proofs may be the future, but XMR is the past and present for privacy. Its the cockroach that wont go away.


I don't doubt the truth of what you're saying. It's just that human behaviour is the reality of what you're up against. NGU is what people want over and above absolute privacy. That, amongst other things (chaumian ecash) is why good enough will beat perfect.


Can you trace my Lightning zaps? Can yoy trace my Liquid tx? 🙂 We don't need #Monero. Change my mind.


We don't need to, nor are we the ones you should worry about.

Getalby and Blockstream can. Even if you trust them, they can be coerced to track you by government and you would never know with a gag order.

Privacy is between sender and receiver.
Not sender+reciever+third party. Otherwise it is not different from Paypal, Venmo, or a traditional bank.

Also, FYI, Liquid is traceable, it only hides amounts. Not senders and receivers like Monero.


How do you buy monero anonymously ?


Ecash is custodial and mints can print IOUs unbacked by Bitcoin.

Literally throws away the two main things Bitcoin was trying to solve.


Confidential Transactions used in Monero are ZKPs

And Full Chain Membership Proofs are down the road


If you already have cryptocurrencies, you can find instant change using:
https://trocador.app
https://orangefren.com
https://intercambio.app

atomic exchange with:
https://unstoppableswap.net
https://code.samourai.io/wallet/comit-swaps-java/-/releases
https://basicswapdex.com

Or buy with fiat money using:
https://localmonero.co
https://bisq.network
https://learn.robosats.com

They are all KYC-free. Every option has Tor by default, or at least has it available.


Thank you 🙏


The vibes from you and other fellow hardliners here are weird.

I only k ow a handful of XMR advocates so i wont  claim to know the xmr communitys motivations - but no monero advocate ive ever met wants to *beat* bitcoin. The only thing they want is privacy.

Whereas the bitcoin community, of which i am much more a part, has this weird obsession with beating monero as if its the enemy.

Xmr aint the enemy.

Two things can coexist. Bitcoin will be bigger forever. Punching down to a group who want to be left alone or even are bitcoiners themselves is the kind of thing the enemy does.

"People want ngu"? Ya some people. But some people want privacy, and still others may want both.

Ecash isnt bitcoin and its not self custodial. Thats straight from nostr:npub12rv5lskctqxxs2c8rf2zlzc7xx3qpvzs3w4etgemauy9thegr43sf485vg


just buy bitcoin kycfree


Tried to zap this one but ill send a big thanks for sharing these resources instead. Many thanka 👏


nvm I said nothing.

go on.

I'll just read with


Use two Phoenix Wallets with your own two separate private keys, use you own Electrum server and Tor, send your #Bitcoin once (or twice) via the Lightning Network. We don't need whirpool mixers nor #Monero.


take your time

it's 3 parts, 3 hours in total lol

same, we'll see.


what do you think ab atomic swap w boltzexch from lightning to lbtc and pegging out back versus monero swap as a tool to help for forward facing privacy?


but if you use it as a quick swap tool, shouldn't that not matter?


Swapping #Bitcoin to #Lightning is fine.
Swapping #Lightning to #Liquid is fine.
Swapping #Bitcoin to #Monero is fine.
Using Whirlpools is fine.

The point i was trying to make is: Monero is not the only option for transacting privately, unlike many Monero-fanboys seem to think.


yes amazing tnx

is there perhaps a comparison table yet comparing the options per possible usecase? that doesnt go too extremely deep in the tech.. for ppl like me?


lightning vs liquid vs chaumian vs fedi vs monero

it's a lot i guess, gonna be mega


#monero is not a shitcoin. it's *the* coin for untraceable privacy. stack btc, use sparrow's whirlpool and spend anonymously with monero. it's privacy by default.

#cybersecgirl #privacytechpro #monero

https://www.getmonero.org/


Congrats 🥳
You kind of solved the problem for 0.01% of users that will do that.

Now here are the other privacy problems that come with LN, that Monero doesn't have, for the 0.01% of those users:
-Receivers have notoriously bad privacy
-Amounts can be probed by a large routing node
-Data gleaned from onchain footprint used to open/close channels(including name of node you opened/closed the channel to/from)
-Any effectiveness of onion routing is reduced/nullified if most of the network is using large centralized nodes to transact (which is incentivized for successful routing and cheapest fees)

Here are general LN problems (that neither Bitcoin nor Monero have):
-can't send larger amounts
-need to have sufficiently funded channels to use
-can't receive offline
-requires a hot wallet to receive
-can be rugged if your node is offline
-can be force closed against your will

Here are the problems specific to Phoenix:
-Centralized servers in France
-They calculate routes for you so know amounts and destinations
-They allow you to receive by being a middle man so permissioned
-You pay them extra to transact
-If they go offline, your wallet is useless
https://phoenix.acinq.co/privacy
https://phoenix.acinq.co/faq#how-private-are-my-payments-on-phoenix

There is a reason no one uses the Lightning Network on Darknet Markets.

Here are some people you may know talking about the state of lightning privacy:

"Lightning right now is a privacy nightmare" -Giacomo
https://youtu.be/P1PRKKlI-Jo?si=OXtZUHPiBmanbNuC&t=1691

LN devs telling you its not private:
bitcoinmagazine.com/technical/state-of-bitcoin-lightning-network-privacy
https://abytesjourney.com/lightning-privacy/

"We identified 27,183 private channels, discovered hidden balances, and showed how a passive adversary can infer payment endpoints with very high probability."
https://arxiv.org/pdf/2003.12470.pdf


Whirlpool is obfuscation, nothing is hidden. All amounts and connections are visible. Need to run your own dojo or you give away your xpubs. Weak to Sybil attacks. Requires centralized coordinator. Expensive, slow, and tedious.

Lightning we can already rule out the way 95% of users use it with custodial or LSP wallets that have full insight. For the few sovereign users left: receiver privacy sucks, amounts can be probed, IP exposed by default, onchain footprint data leaks. And unless you're only going to send and receive from the other 5 unannounced nodes that exist, you route thru centralized nodes that reduce any help from onion routing.

Liquid is traceable. Only hides amounts. Custodial.


Done watching part 1.

The lack of plausible deniability with Monero is a big problem for me. I want excuses as to why I use potentially privacy preserving techniques that do not incriminate myself directly. Saving on transaction costs is perfect for that.

Also I dislike the all or nothing stance in general. This is not how life works.


interdasting, thanks for sharing ser


I would say the only strong default privacy on this list is chaumian ecash (like fedi) and Monero.

If you don't care about the custodial aspects and the fact that mints can arbitrarily print unbacked tokens, then ecash is great transactional privacy. Not really adopted anywhere yet though.


thank you


very clear, merci


I don't understand. For plausible deniability, why can't you say you were trying to save on fees with Monero too? Less than a cent.

>"Why didn't you just use Lightning/Ecash then?"
>"Because ecash is custodial and rehypothicateable.
And lightning is too complex and too many annoyance (can't receive offline, ruggable, can't send large amounts, can be forced closed onchain, etc...)"

?


Fedimints and Cashu will attract the same legal scrutiny. But unlike Monero, they are holding funds! So they will likely be even more scrutinized. Look at what happened to Tornado Cash.


You can gauge your risk accordingly by reducing exposure in amount and/or time to make the these risks low/negligible.

But strictly speaking it will always be custodial and there is no guarantee that those who hold ecash tokens will ever be able to redeem them for real Bitcoin, or that others will take them at their represented value.

I think there will be many rugs by mints (both intentional and unintentional) before it gets somewhat better. But the risks will never be lower than self-custody on chain.

https://iris.to/note1mmtkufs30679q4cem09lrdzx4cevr8ss9269wlrl34k6tarmzwfs0s880t


oh nice mini table


pff cant zap of course you don't have ln on lol


it’s a shitcoin ! Use coinjoin instead


i disagree. as i said, stack btc use whirlpool and spend with monero. each has it's place. btc privacy can't match monero.


If you need an external mechanism (like coinjoin) to make your coin anonymous, then your coin isn't really anonymous


How do you convert btc from post mix sparrow to monero?


My understanding is that mints are grassroots initiatives run by one or more individuals which makes them somehow volatiles, hard to find and to take down.


The limiting process for its privacy is the conversion liquidity to/from BTC. https://youtu.be/va1pnsCnqHI?si=qMzZz6-COrUnJSMx


Yes that works too but the fact it's a well known so called privacy coin is likely to attract more attention which is counter productive in this scenario


It takes a large amount of effort to try to get any kind of privacy with BTC.

Monero is so easy to use, the most private by default (a person with the lowest IQ is secure with monero), monero has dynamic block sizing therefore moving it costs pennies, monero is used everyday.  BTC is for cold storage like expensive paintings.

Monero is real money.


I assure you, good sir, I'm am of the soft and squishy liner variety. You've overplayed way too much of your own bias over my words.


Forgive me for projecting. Peace and love.


And Bitcoin has zero privacy. It is a public ledger. All connections and amounts are completely visible to anyone on the planet.


Coinjoin is ownership obfuscation. It doesn't provide any privacy like Monero does. All amounts and connections are visible and more vulnerable to future mistakes or offchain data.

Expensive, slow, and tedious too


Maybe so, but it runs into a catch 22 imo

Well-known mint runners are less likely to rug, but easier to find and take down

Anonymous/Pseudonymous mint runners are harder to find and take down, but it's easier for them to rug-n-run


And the main features of ecash is it's strong privacy as well. So, I still don't understand why you think it is so different. Anything with that kind of privacy won't be liked, period.


Well the thing is nobody knows you owned ecash outside of the mint. It's Bitcoin in Bitcoin out and Lightning in the case of Cashu.


Agreed. There will always be tradeoffs obviously.


Actually I see your point. The only difference in that you need to explain why you sent to a mint instead of why you swapped to Monero. Which isn't much I agree.


I guess that is an ever slight difference, but not sure if it is significant. Why else would you be sending to a mint (if that address is known and associated with a mint)? Will at least evoke major suspicion

And if you p2p trade or atomic swap for Monero - this is essentially the same thing as sending Bitcoin to a mint. Probably even better. No one will know you got that Monero aside from your peer (and you'll also likely be anonymous or pseudonymous with these methods too)


sparrow whirlpool is the same thing: slow, tedious,expensive, non private garbage.  And the coins you get are non-fungible, tainted for life.


That you have to do this shows how truly terrible Bitcoin is as a pricavy preserving Bitcoin.  It wouldn't be so bad if privacy wasn't portrayed as the main selling feature by Bitcoin fanboys.  Its easier to hide fiat money in offshore accounts!  Or buy gold and bury it in the back yard.


You’re absolutely right.


Nah, btc through Lightning is the way to go.


No lies detected. That said, how do you feel about zcash (z2z) ?


From: nostr:npub1jggj3tdr33rrakqn0n7l0xyhnuuuhg2qwaeyl90xf8znex0wwldsx9qlx9


If I open-mindedly follow your thesis, there is still no compelling reason to HODL Monero - just convert and spend as needed.

Might as well adjust/fork to be a stable coin. 🤷

Not being argumentative.


How about Pirate Chain (ARRR)?


indeed


mostly i assume tired btc is god satoshi is god bias. so yeah lfg 🚀


Agree bitcoin is logos in money format


#monero is not a shitcoin. it's *the* coin for untraceable privacy. stack btc, use sparrow's whirlpool and spend anonymously with monero. it's privacy by default.

#cybersecgirl #privacytechpro #monero

https://www.getmonero.org/


I agree.. not to mention that monero is cpu-mineable, making it very easy entry for everybody that wants to mine from home on their own rig.

There is a reason why all the fatcat exchanges  will NOT list monero or list but not actually have wallets for it..

Monero is a hardcore threat to the onchain analysts and privacy hating dickheads.


Let's go 🚀

Let's go 🚀


There are some shitcoins that can and will function as currency. You save on the bitcoin blockchain, and use the bitcoin blockchain for big transfers , institutional transfers and base money and use the shitcoins as currency, private or otherwise. I am not seeing the purpose of the Lightning Network anymore.


*Mic Drop!*


"...stack btc"

I don't think anyone here is saying that. You both agree.


Monero is very cool, but zCash is easier to use, and UX can be a SPOF.

I own neither. Bitcoin only. *End of virtue signal*

A zCash sidechain is already built and ready, and you are correct. This is the only way to have a truly private cryptocurrency.

https://www.truthcoin.info/blog/zside-meltcast/


I read the comments on this post and didn't see anyone mention this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sZjcFRdvbjc


How many coins are in the market ?:)))


Monero is a shitcoin.

- Unlimited supply
- Constant hard forks
- Complex codebase (less people capable of analyzing the code == less security)
- Doesn't actually improve your privacy meaningfully


Explain how hidden amounts and addresses don't meaningfully improve privacy. Especially over Bitcoin.


~18,147,820 XMR

Less coins in the market than Bitcoin


Think about it.

If I were to send my friend some value now and I would like to use Monero as a privacy tool, how's that going to work?

Step 1: I convert some sats to XMR via some decentralized exchange

Step 2: I send XMR to my friend

Step3: My friend uses some exchange to convert XMR to sats

I think this approach is:
- Costly
- Unclear if it would echance your privacy ar overall
- Time consuming
- Security risk (you would have to deal with technology that offers less assurances that you would otherwise have)


Blockstream get all the fees in Liquid.
I see that as a broken incentive model for longer period of time 🤔


Monero is not a shitcoin but lightning is great as a sender. and as a receiver is in the works.


prove it


lightning is not.


He can’t prove anything 😂😂


unlimited supply is a  meaningless missrepresentation of  tail end of monero mining.  For the same reason that Bitcoin will never produce the 23rd million bitcoin until time infinity.  It doesn't actually matter, similarly natural LOSS of monero coins far outstrips the supply, even when its supply is technically infinite.  Its just slightly less deflationary than bitcoin.  Which isn't a bad thing.  Everything else about monero is superior.


Agree thats silly. Just spend in xmr. The fact that people don't use XMR isn't an argument against its technical superiority. The network effect is driven by fud/propaganda/lies/investors etc.  None of which are defensible reasons to use Bitcoin, even if they are practical reasons.


Why would somebody want to hold asset that's less secure? 🤔


Not the way 95%+ of users use it. Custodial wallets and LSPs can see everything they do.


That has nothing to do with Monero

Of course Monero can't guarantee privacy if you leave it. Almost all the negatives you list are consequences of Bitcoin (cost, potential privacy failures, time consuming swapping) not Monero

You have to use Monero directly


Run a Monero node and see if what I'm saying matches up. Exactly like any Bitcoiner would "prove" it.


Monero security is fine. Digital fiat is a million times less secure (your funds can be frozen, confiscated, no privacy from banks and governments, and rampant unpredictable inflation), yet I'm sure you and most people hold some. You also don't have to hold Monero if you don't want to - just spend it


*if you're running your own lightning node (something almost no lightning user does)


there are 13827 known nodes.
and unknown number of private nodes.
your "almost no one" definition is dumb.


I'll use info we do know. Look at custodial wallet download statistics vs known nodes. Look at Nostr. Even among true believers you are all using LN custodially via WoS, Getalby, etc. No privacy from them.

Are you using ln.tips custodially? If not, you are a rare exception


Yes, I would rather own some Monero to buy my groceries for the week instead of cash, but that's not possible and probably never will be.

But how would one just spend Monero without holding or trading something for it first? 🤔

Monero is actually much less secure than Bitcoin on multiple levels.


the problems of bitcoin is not moneros concern


But Monero is not a solution


semantics. love lightning. it's no monero. it's got promise and growing nicely but no, most people (especially on nostr) do not run their own lightning node because it's a bit of a pain in the ass to run and manage correctly (unlike btc nodes).


lightning addresses by wallet on nostr as of april 2023
https://image.nostr.build/dadd6d43b2df865f1e2972b8ee107b330275f52a26f3b44abf2a3dd45ad6499e.jpg#m=image%2Fjpeg&dim=1450x892&blurhash=r4Ss878%5E_41JD%25%5D%25In%25h%7Eq9HIV-oxCS5bds.s%2Cax%25MXSWA-BM%7BXm%3FbIo9YVqRiS%25NMt6xWWAW%3FkE-rjv9YxY%5E%2COYD%25%23Rg2snn%2CkWbEnzjFIuNKxW&x=91bc28ef4e87cafb5bfbe47569856b014d7c3d346f44ea030fc27a3ca89905cc


I run my own node, I can't speak of others.


You are a rare exception. Hence my original comment "(something almost no lightning user does)"

A big advantage Monero has over LN is that you don't need to run your own Monero node to gain all of it's privacy benefits (hidden amounts, hidden addresses, obfuscated senders). You gain these even if using any remote node.

For LN you *must* run your own node for maximum possible privacy
Even non-custodial wallets like Phoenix offer no privacy advantage


I can't buy groceries with Bitcoin directly anywhere around me either so what is the difference? You act as if everyone is using and accepting Bitcoin when they're not. Most people still don't know or care about Bitcoin.

If you're holding some fiat right now (and I bet you are) then it is quite hilarious to nitpick about Moneros security.
There is a ~$3 billion bounty for you to break it's security. If it's so weak, then go get it! What are you waiting for? All for you!


The differences lies in security and assurances.

I don't want to hold something that's less secure for most of my wealth.

I could think of having some privacy shitcoin or fiat for my weekly groceries, but only fiat is accepted atm.


I'll just leave this right here:

nostr:nevent1qqs0v26pza95lmeqaz7lyezc79zws64n6tf8y55anppmh8002m2st7cpz3mhxue69uhkummnw3ezummcw3ezuer9wcpzqn4csvgddd8djhrdv63etv7nea2ehp06aj8hdyw6l4q94yhq2htdqvzqqqqqqylwlmnu