Believing Anarchism is a serious way to structure society the most juvenile world view.


is this an "attack on bitcoin" !?


Have fun supporting theft.


no, the most juvenile world view is thinking Daddy State is going to save you from work and pain


Nothing will save you from work and pain. That's life. And I don't look to any form of government to fix that.


Not supporting anarchy is equal to endorsing theft? Got it. What a ridiculous statement.


You might think it's ridiculous, but, it's not. All human governments have taxed. Taxation is theft. 🤷♂


I support it. it's healthy to have some pushback.


Anarchism is just about the only moral way to structure a society.


It works and every single time weve come even close to it anywhere it brought hundrets of years of stability, security and prosperity.
See the privately owned merchant republic of Genoa for instance.


Also, the idea that there is such a thing as "Society" is an insane religious ideology, popularised in more recent times by Plato, which was then further advanced by Kant and Hegel leading to Marx, Hitler, Stalin.


It does not scale.


That's the point.

Like, literally.

You see that as a bug, but it's  actually the best feature.

Not scaling means everything is local. Local is distributed and usually decentralized. Distributed systems are better for nearly everything good.


Anarchism is the defacto arrangement between sovereign nations but you think it wont work between sovereign provinces? Cities? Towns? Individuals?


Say no to anarchism, say yes to proprietarianism


you just haven't read Pennis.


These economies will be crushed by bigger ones every time. You can have local small governments too. Small constitutional monarchies everywhere. Much more feasible than anarchism, which will get nothing done because the culture will never coordinate or agree on any large projects. You cannot think that far in the future with a society so fragmented.


I find it rather the opposite. You are freer to think longer term when there is no larger society to worry about.

Constitutional monarchism is an interesting thought, but, I still reject it for the same reasons I reject all human government.


I imagine a word where we have about as many monarchies as we have counties in the USA. But globally. Tax would be more voluntary with such small geographic landscapes. Freedom of movement exists. People will organize naturally. Those monarchies that opress their people will fall in short order.


Why bother having a monarchy at all, then?


A shared moral compass of your people, shared goals.


Governments steal money to fund the thugs to steal more money. It looks legit


You know it's possible to have a government that doesn't steal.


You don't need government for that. At all. In fact, government will hinder people from naturally organizing.


Has there ever existed any? One example would be enough 👀


monarchy seems great... if you're the monarch
i don't quite understand who anyone else would voluntarily go along in such a system of government though
like im not sure "benevolent monarchy" is a less juvenile world view than thinking anarchism would work, both are different strains of romanticism


That's close enough to anarchy that I don't see any point in making a distinction. Anarchy would just be that, but on an even smaller scale. It doesn't work without property, and if you can own a few miles and pass it on to your kids, then you might as well invent some titles and call it a monarchy.


People have freedom of movement. People will always have a natural organization of hierarchies. I stack sats so I can be the monarch. Or at least a noble.


where does this freedom of movement come from, what prevents the monarch from locking you up if you want to leave? or why would another let you in?

i dunno, but imo if you're going to be idealistic about people's behavior, anarchy and self-sovereignty seems a better tree to bark up to, at least it's based on your own responsibility


The monarchs that opress their people will fall in short order due to their inability to compete in a free market.


If all taxation were theft, there wouldn't have been any point in developing two different words for it.


Well, communism gives anarchy a good run for the money, but they're both about discarding Realpolitik and just going full fanatic, in one direction or another.


*sighs*

There's plenty of words for it. All of them are bad. All taxes for all human governments are evil means of extortion and control for evil ends and means.


There are plenty of words used as an alternative for taxation. The differing definitions are merely used to confuse people and keep hidden their true purpose. In the end, it's all just different forms of taxation. So yes, taxation is theft, regardless of how it's termed.


here is an example of what it all means

https://youtu.be/_YLqVD_MsgM


300 years in iceland until the catholic church pushed tithes on them... 9000 years in jericho, no signs of a centralised government or monarchy... and prior to Samuel in the bible there was no jewish king, only judges, decentralised, market based law


For a more in-depth historical view presented by a historian: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H4jOKPpWDr0


What part of the anarchist principle that it's immoral to initiate aggression against peaceful individuals you don't agree?


I need said it was immoral. It's impractical.


The US started that way until they enshrined theft into the Constitution


I also never advocated any aggression towards peaceful individuals I don't agree with.


Yes representative democracy is pretty shit


Exactly the opposite. The reason the word "taxation" is needed is because having a different word makes the theft easier.


Wear a sweater, chicken neck


We can all get along if we work together
An #octopus has many tendencies & tentacles 🦑 https://image.nostr.build/4dd77de67b6b24e86e80776a25fa4007f65aad3d9875b2a1b57b36b7d89dec77.jpg https://image.nostr.build/5f137fe7f2120e4741de6ce1ed4995d4ca82b2a91eed11cbed203bec69685dcf.jpg


I love how you hedge because you don't actually believe what you're saying


Why do you say anarchy is fragmented? I don't know if it has been tried but maybe because we didn't have the technology until now.


I have to preface my response by the fact that I do believe in a benevolent monarchy, but not a strictly human one since I am a Christian that believes that there is no other correct leader but Christ. But, I will now to no other human.

So, I will not bend a knee to human authority. I do not need to be governed.

I stand by what I said.


I believe the same. If I were a monarch, I would declare God to be the King of my people and may I pray every day that he work through me. Emploring my people to never praise myself, but the one true God.


Well, you're supposed to be the priest-king of your family. You don't need anyone else above you to fulfill that role.


Anarchy lacks the ability to organize because of the lack of central authority.


No and I would tell my people the same.


I may be their king but I AM NOT their King.


Sure, except you are and you are supposed to be, but you are obviously not THE KING (and we both know I don't mean Elvis).


You can have authority in anarchy (doesn't have to be central). The only difference is it's not coercive, people can choose to participate or not, and let's say they have to pay to participate. Why wouldn't that scale?


Then that's not anarchy.


What is it then


obey human authority is one of the most repeated commands in the bible.  and not just cxn authorities.  dudes with much more skin in the game fleshed our this area of christian philosophy long ago. do some reading and stop being a self centered coward.


If you are not the center, then you have no authority.


*sighs*
Where?
Who?
I am a self-centered coward. That doesn't mean you aren't mistaken and that I can't be correct about this.


emploring?


I'm not usually this generous, but let it be known that this morning I am in a good mood. Here are just a few:
Where?
Exodus 22:28
Proverbs 24:21
Deuteronomy 17:12
Ecclesiastes 8:2-4
Matthew 22:21
Luke 20:25
Acts 23:5
Ephesians 6:5-8
Colossians 3:22-25
Philemon 1:15-16
Romans 13:1-7
1 Timothy 2:1-2
Titus 3:1
"Remind them to be subject to rulers and authorities, to obey, to be ready for every good work."
1 Peter 2:13-17
"Submit yourselves to every ordinance of man for the Lord’s sake"
Hebrews 13:17

Who?
John Chrysostom, Homilies on Romans and Homilies on Matthew
Augustine of Hippo, City of God
Martin Luther, Temporal Authority: To What Extent It Should Be Obeyed?
John Calvin, Institutes of the Christian Religion (Book 4, Chapter 20)
Richard Hooker, Of the Laws of Ecclesiastical Polity
Samuel Rutherford, Lex, Rex
Jonathan Edwards, A Divine and Supernatural Light (sermon)
Dietrich Bonhoeffer, Ethics and Letters and Papers from Prison
Francis Schaeffer, A Christian Manifesto
Nikolai Berdyaev, The Realm of Spirit and the Realm of Caesar
John Knox, The First Blast of the Trumpet Against the Monstrous Regiment of Women
John Milton, The Tenure of Kings and Magistrates
Westminster Confession of Faith (1646), (Chapter 23: Of the Civil Magistrate)
Martin Niemöller, sermons and letters

The proper role of the magistrate, and for that matter resistanceto tyrrany and principled disobedience, is meaningless once you remove the real authority of said magistrate.

You want to be your own little god who doesn't have to be inconvenienced by another human interfering with your plans. It's a poorly informed worldview.  Eat some meat.


authority needs a source.  he definitely needs someone else above him.

also you've totally missed the whole idea of spheres of government

also you've totally failed to account for the poor souls you're claiming must be under your own human rule.

get out in the world and see some real broken families and evil people.  you're young and inexperienced, and it shows.


There is a reason: propaganda. It's better when victims of theft don't know they are being stolen from. Or even better they are happy to be stolen from because 0.5% of stolen money pays for the roads


your opinion stems from your self worship.
bible doesn't let you be the center of anything.
so it definitely means that you're totally mistaken.
you're supposed to die for the ones you love/serve. left handed victory etc. submit. and find true freedom.

we all die.  desperately grasping at power for the sake of self worth is a pathetic way to go out.


yes the verses are without context and must be read and interpreted in context

read ezra and nehemiah.  recognize that they, and daniel, served one of the most brutal series of tyrant kings the world has seen.  and were commended for it.


Oh, that's right. You don't read your Bible. You just lambaste the world with opinions that you picked up from an online source that made you feel good about yourself.


If you lived in a constitutional monarchy, and you have the freedom to leave whenever you want, and the nearest alternate monarchy is 10-20 miles away, is that monarchies taxation still theft?


It depends what kind of tax. If you pay rent from using land that's like the most legitimate thing that they own the land and you use it so you pay for it. But if they tax your ETF capital gains that you have made in different country from money that you have invested before you started living there then there is not much legitimate about it. Because the moving thing it's kind of cope of digital nomads. Many businesses farms, factories, mines can't be moved so the government can basically tax whatever but that doesn't make it legitimate.


Why does it depend? If you don't want to play it, you're free to leave.


That's nice thing for single bitcoiner digital nomands. You cannot build society on that. For most families or businesses moving is more costly than paying 30% tax. That doesn't make the tax legitimate that just means that thugs are stronger and have advantage. Choosing to pay a robber rather than dying doesn't make robbery legitimate. It's a victim blaming telling that people who don't move agree with tax. We as a society need farmers and families and factories in order to survive a humanity


It's not that expensive to move if the closest alternate jurisdiction is 10-20 miles away. That's quite the cop out. And if you are truly opressed would you not move for your future generations, no matter the cost?


I don't worship myself, though I am certainly selfish and stubborn.

As for the rest of what you said, yeah. That's pretty obvious.


This... It's going to take a while.

I haven't read any of those sources. I don't consider some of them worth bothering with, others are already in my list. I don't really care about much reading by people that's not directly exposition if the Bible.

As for the biblical references, I'll have to go through those. Thank you for the list. This will take a while to respond to.

Exodus 22:28
Cursing a ruler is not the same as disobeying evil.


Yes, such a government is anarchy though in that it is voluntary. A private company. Liek the fire insurance companies of london which had fire safety regulations, if you didnt follow them they wouldnt insure you. They also employed firefighters to cut costs of damages.
We need that for law enforcement and defense.


Not just taxation, imposing your "law" onto my property is also theft of that property. If i dont have exclusive control over it, it is not my property. We understood this. Thats why church asylum was a thing, tthe churches property was recognised and as such nobody could enforce his will there.


History paints a different picture.


That's an interesting point I hadn't considered before interesting.


Have you ever heard of big companies?


Not counties. Smaller. Households and companies would in "anarchy" be their own fully soverign monarchies.


You mean companies? With CEOs? That would be the central authority.


haven't read any of them?  further proving your self-worship and mental masturbation to the sound of your own voice.

guess you've got your work cut out but 100% positive you'll find an excuse not to read any of this. especially as you've already written some of them off ha ha ha

also check out volume 1 of god and government by gary de mar.  pretty contriversial stuff but tons and tons of direct exposition of the scriptures


i know it's obvious...that's why i spelled it out for you after you claimed it wasn't.

dealing with non-thinkers is tiresome.  blocking you.


How the heck are they central? And CEOs is more of a corporation thing, not a private company thing. Corporations are the socialist arm of the state, always have been.