Oddbean

You can make a post that says “puppies are awesome”, get lots of people to zap it and reply “agree!”, then update it to “death to all jews” and then there is no way to see the edit history. It just looks like people are supporting that statement with zaps and replies. See the problem ?

Yes, I see it. It's the same problem that exists today with any self hosted blog, of course. Platforms storically solved it disabling or limiting the edit on a short period. Maybe the solution is to include the revisions and make them accessible at comments' level. So if something happens the user can always reply to himself and point out that the comment was related to a different context, highlighting the shady update. A real win would be to somehow force every update/event to include *all* the previous revisions, in this way we can also solve the "vanished from relay" problem, but currently we have only the `d` tag, so revisions are not chainable.

An important and interesting note: what you are worried about is already possible today replacing a image/video linked content, without any formal edit. And it can happens on short notes too. So Damus, like any other clients, is already vulnerable to this sort of "attack".

if you `e` tag along with the `a` this problem goes away, even if you original event goes away, you have prove that you didn't react in it's current form you could currently tweet something like "this is cool www.example.com" and then the people on example.com put a swastika I think there are problems with NIP-33s in general, but I don't think this is one of them

furthermore, when you e-tag a NIP-33 you could publish the NIP-33 you're tagging to your own relay and then prove that the pubkey that published it was maliciously altering content I think changing a NIP-33 maliciously like this is much more a cryptographically-sound self-own rather than a problem for people tagging it.

crypotgraphically sound self-owns are the worst kind of self-owns nostr:nevent1qqsvyxucvjxlwsm7u6mtf6esqk2ryzr6qtug9g4mmtsmsmhm2c53qespp4mhxue69uhkummn9ekx7mqzyrafsj7hmweg9ur7zmn6apajdg48hxuskujx53rhrux0ttjcqx84yqcyqqqqqqg4apc28

It's a similar issue if I post an immutable kind 1 note saying "I love the https://puppies.com/ website" and then an year later the domain is bought by a nazist group. I think just general education and a caveat in the clients saying that the reply was made to a different event in a different time fixes this as best as possible.

the 'p2p' need not be brought to the client level, the relays could store the media, point is by using hash ids (like as notes do) we can move media around anywhere iroh is attempting to vastly improve ipfs, from my investigation they have made some good design choices like blake3

Users are more inclined to understand that a external link can change, but they hardly can think that this apply to an embedded content: nostr: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

Many users are vulnerable today to screenshot attacks in which you alter something in a page and take a picture of that. Doesn't mean the internet is broken because of that. There are many things users will have to learn if they are going to start using Nostr.

Sure. My point was made to confirm your view and relax the matter in response to Will observation, not to highlight any specific criticism. That said, it would be nice to have an "atomic" way to store multimedia notes.

but we can fix media posted remaining the media posted quite easy with hashes, and not having distributed media is massively problematic i cant understand how this is not a top priority, its great we have censorship resistant text but most posts are media and will be taken down or lost

pretty sure this has been thrashed out pretty well in several forum protocols - the events history is not changed, only a new event that says 'edit this event thusly' and then the edited event is displayed with a 'edited' tag on it at minimum, and ideally, a 'view history' button. the event history should be immutable even if a 'change event' event exists.

The "right" way to fix this is to not allow any edits to any post once it has been interacted with in any way - if it's had a like or a zap or a reply. It's the way sensible discussion systems work, and it would make sense to have it do the same here. This is a definite problem, and without any obvious "edited" indicator, it's quite a concern.

note hash, good point but delete already covers this use case edits are good especially as reactions and can be expanded to others doing them, annotations etc, the issues of edits are really a ui problem not the note schema

like are we both confused on this? nostr:nevent1qqsdrq5lsjv429xg22pqh60k7hte5c7rd7vypp6qmzqhr8x6n52s25cpzpmhxue69uhkummnw3ezuamfdejsygpjuxp8vd29p6ancknaztql3eajk52y8xkppfn7au7elkw9c68zg5psgqqqqqqsmgdrs0