Hard nosed #Bitcoin believers dropping out of my followers.

Money, is a tool you fool.
Fuck your cult.
I'll use fiat for fiat shit.
I'll save in BTC.
For everything else, there's #Monero
#Freedom #Privacy


:RedHeart:


Monero has a purpose: absolute privacy


Correct.


This is funny. You mean snowflakes not Hard nosed. 😂

People can use whatever they want.


Now you just need to get Garnet working!


:jokerclap:


Is monero scarce? Is monero decentralized? Does monero have proof of work?


#Bitcoin is money and people should stop worshipping it. Fuck that cult.


Is Bitcoin as private as Monero?

Monero has a soft cap. It doesn't attempt to recreate scarcity.

Decentralized more so than Bitcoin.
Asic resistant algorithm allows for egalitarian mining done at home.

Its value lies in its ease of use and privacy.


Im not too familiar with monero, so i cant speak to: is bitcoin as private as monero?

By default, probably not but we all have our responsibility and i would argue bitcoin can/could be as private as monero.

If zaps ⚡ were built on top of monero, how would that look?


That doesn’t need to happen tho


Yes to all three


Interesting, monero transactions/fees* scale easily so we can zap anyone layer 1?
again limited monero knowledge 😅


Yes as well as the blockchain itself to handle large amount of transactions


Bitcoin is a cult?
https://media1.tenor.com/m/SBwmmGRw8X8AAAAC/wee-bay-wee.gif


Onward 🫡

Onward 🫡


Do you admit it only had utility in this aspect and nothing else so therefore not money.


Yes, comma, yes, comma, and yes.


And that is what I get for dictating on nostr. Now, that will always be remembered.


The argument about scarcity is not quite right actually. Over infinity, sure, Monero is not scarce, such as Bitcoin is. However, over a lifetime, it definitely is scarce enough to work as proper money. less than 0.9% inflation per year and falling. The tiny amount of inflation is meant to replace what gets lost through loss of private keys, etc.


🤣🤣🤣 signed and relayed


It would look like the Nostr client named "Garnet".

LN can be built on top of the next Monero upgrade if desired.


nostr:nprofile1qqs0he0gpmydkhzrncjc94ten5j79l5tjk93ah6etgtn4cwg4t6xqacpz4mhxue69uhhyetvv9ujuerpd46hxtnfduhsqvdrkh do you have a Monero address I can add to my cake wallet?


Each has its own purpose


“Trusted team that doesn’t work for profit” https://image.nostr.build/d9a7db0ee50c943685e5c97ef7339be20825c3256f87dfed50f20e387411e428.jpg


Where does the reservation demand come from?


How fees works for monero? Can we check it live like mempool for btc ?


You left out poor (unsurprisingly)


Its not as interesting as mempool.space

since you can't see sender,receiver and amount.


if you had it setup I could zap this https://image.nostr.build/028199f95879cd31f6675023dc2d17d5d5897772373b674a780d2712af0898a6.jpg


LMAO “trusted team”


The average XMR fee is very low compared to BTC https://image.nostr.build/c66c1d6711cc586c1cbf2f378064e30979d434e921ca3aab3397ff270b2dbb79.jpg


by default, not at all.

and bitcoin could possibly be as private as monero,
with a hard fork.

OR
we're left trying to do shit on L2s, which will always have serious drawbacks.

There is a extremely strong argument for compulsory privacy on L1.


Monero has all the properties of money.
Bitcoin does not.

cope. https://image.nostr.build/986286384c78b0a0c0a91861139b7c72e24a8a8b414e1dad9e15d127f9e1125c.jpg


The primal objective is become anonymous, not rich sir


Monero boys are smart enough to value privacy but too stubborn to coinjoin

True libertarians I'll give you that


We don't need coinjoin. Monero is anonymous by default


I mean, if such thing exist for the part of live fees priority and cost


what a monero block explorer looks like FYI

https://localmonero.co/blocks/


And the concept of being rich or poor is very subjective, I think. A king on the middle ages had less luxury and comfort than a average middle class American nowadays


Monero txs are so cheap (usually less than .01 USD)  basically nobody worries about it.

There was an issue with some network flooding a few months ago where people who needed to get a tx in a block had to up their fee.
But that was the first Ive heard of any fee market in years.


What's wrong with using the advantages of each for the benefit of the individual, for example the value of bitcoin as a store of value and the privacy of monero for daily use ???


Do you have a Monero address I can add to my cake wallet?


da fuck? all my utxos have cj history homie.

difference is,
my xmr doesn't need it.


I don't know much about this part but…

44EaZdPYLjLhniYWYHNuJPU41HHouZ7xMMEc4Z94eVnwPe2jLtKiZnFZbo6VjdXC1KYVsbKcqnNFNhvGm54ER5XS5VxjtBh


Why bother with xmr if you can just coinjoin and be rich at the same time?


Yes, and it seems the market has valued absolute privacy about 0.2% of what it has valued absolute scarcity and auditability.


I'm just glad we don't have the xrp army here 🤣


Sent


This is a good point.

When maxis say "rich" or "poor" they don't mean "abundance" or " able to enjoy some luxury "

they mean a higher or lower socioeconomic position *relative to themselves.*
So HFSP doesn't just mean "I'm sorry you won't reap the benefits of higher buying power"
it means "i will occupy a superior economic caste than you because you are an impure shitcoiner"

That's why it's an arrogant obnoxious thing to say. Reeks of smugness and the self-gratified pride of someone who needs their ass kicked.


Each to their own.
I intend on using BTC as a store of value but will deffo make an effort to send XMR to nostriches who accept it.


there's a meme for this.
but basically,

CJs are expensive,
utxos management is hard,
you need to be organized so you dont compromise whatever privacy you gain,
and
as of today,
without Whirlpool there are NO good CJ implementations active,
so it's not really an option anyway

So you could figure out a kludgey and expensive workaround,
study up on the CJ implementation so you really understand what kind of entropy you are gaining
and what foot guns are possible
etc

or you could
you know,
just use monero.


I'm willing to make that effort to both preserve my privacy and be wealthy

Plus all my spending is over lightning which already has near perfect privacy so double makes monero useless to me

I gave it an honest chance, had some and mined some, but all I could do with it was lose purchasing power and buy drugs


Can you elaborate on why it states btc is ❌ fungible?


Tainted coins can be rejected.


Tainted? Rejected by who?


That's a tough one, they actually want to spend. As soon as I put up btc stickers on my coffeeshop windows, the xrp people started asking when I'll accept that. 😂


utxos with different histories are not fungible by definition.
they are NOT interchangeable units, they are distinguishable.


If LN is private it's only because nobody is looking (yet).
and its only sender privacy, we know receive privacy is nonexistent.

But you're really just giving up custody arent you??? Just recreate the fiat system online and trust the bank right? 😩


anyone with a block explorer and enough knowledge to follow the money.

they are going to map the entire utxo set using existing KYC/AML info and assign confidence scores to all of it

large institutions will pay CA to help them avoid tainted, risky utxos.


You don't have to give up any custody to use lightning, you just have to run your own node. (It's hard I admit)

With a bit of effort you can receive with privacy as well.


I have been looking into the Alby Hub thing...
But yeah, so far LN has definitely not been a legitimate privacy tool. Maybe the UX improving with sovereign nodes will change that.

or maybe ecash will.

but they haven't yet and every year the maxis are crowing about *something* that will do the job.
but there's just nothing so far except noise.

monero remains undefeated.


Large institutions ARE paying CA to avoid risky utxos.
its a huge business.


Seems arbitrary and at an individual level the argument falls apart. Because a person or institution decides to not accept a specific utxo doesnt make that thing init of itself nonfungible.
Individuals can do what they please.


the point is that it is possible to differentiate between utxos of the same 'value'

IOW, 'value' is not the only characteristic of a new utxo.
Because the ledger is transparent, 'history' is also communicated.

And because their 'history' is not the same, utxos of the same 'value' are nonfungible.
by definition.

yes and *then* people can make whatever decisions they want.

but we have decided that
"fungible"
means that units of equal size cannot be differentiated from each other.

and bitcoin is not that.


Rare sats for example.


And when you need privacy, your transaction won’t be in Bitcoin, it’ll be in monero 🫶🏽


That was an attack on dnm… they made $300k stealing from them…


no cap?

they were somehow brute forcing privkeys?
how did flooding txs steal xmr?
which DNM was the target?


fucking rare sats 🙄


Rare sats are funny 😂 an example but a silly example.

I see the perspective of the history, metadata about this utxo chain but this is at the human level. Imposed onto it. At the network level a utxo is a utxo. A sat is a sat, no matter how long or short its chained history is.

Sure obfuscation of this history seems to provide ppl ”value” but not on the network.


jfc
don't people have anything better to do?


Apparently not


sure
whatever.
nodes don't care.

its still not fungible in real life.
de facto nonfungible.

so let's all go ahead
get over the fact
and move on

bitcoin does NOT have all the properties of money
it's probably never going to have strong privacy
and its a big fucking problem


Good convo, i appreciate the push back and knowledge sharing.
STACK SATS 🤙


lol cya


You assuming that Monero Bros are not "rich in fiat terms"  is very interesting as most people I know in Monero have been in Bitcoin from the very beginning and most of them have a core position in Bitcoin.

So I guess it is them who started to value their privacy much more early than you as they akready have a need for a private store of value and a means to privately spend their Bitcoins.


https://image.nostr.build/3f1f53eef8f5124c7ad6bc9697215f8135969dc91ce79d0ae4dd471a82c4b0c7.jpg

 If there was only a list of exchanges oh wait...


Yes and all that value is specifically on white markets that require permission to transact - defeating the whole point of Bitcoin 🤪

https://github.com/libbitcoin/libbitcoin-system/wiki/Permissionless-Principle


Unique histories are the opposite of fungible (uniformity, indistinguishable among other units)


Exchange is a keyword


Yes, lower than 0.9% inflation, Yes more than 500 developers alongside the world, Yes.


Every utxo is literally distinct...


Plus utxo that are from or only a few hops removed from coinjoins will be rejected in more and more places. To be fair, lightning fixes this to some extent.


Have you looked into Zeus? Only lightning wallet with acceptable privacy from the LSP.


I installed it after their big update to try it out.

It did not just work and I couldn't be pissed to screw around with it


Yeah it's a bit clunky but worth looking into it. First lightning wallet I feel comfortable using instead if xmr. For most things at least.


I use Phoenix for when I need to use LN.
It's ok for my threat model.


Pretty clean wallet but they see the destination of your payments. I like their buying incoming liquidity option. Soon Zeus will have the same.