My relocation advisor wanted to know where I kept my Bitcoin and how I intend to move it out of the UK.

He didn't understand when I said, "It's in my head, it goes wherever I go"

Then his tax friend joined the call and explained his clients deposit their Bitcoin in the bank. I don't think he appreciated me laughing.

I then explained "I am the bank"

This is going to be a struggle for me to explain!


I am the bank is a mantra for the ages.


The paradigm shift will be hard for many


Yesterday I got “Accredited Investor Verification requested by World Liberty Financial KYC Portal completed - NOT VERIFIED”
I’m a systems poor but bitcoin rich in my head survived from boat 🛥 accident 🍻 it’s a beautiful day pic credit nostr:npub1wzxf4sgcr75tfg2903uyhzgz5jyj3kjdlx0zwhkgx8eln9qkeqdsp5jhuz https://image.nostr.build/7cb82a277c84713c60932374ee857bc003990bf548ee678f98574a4d7c006b0d.jpg


https://www.locate.im/article/news/6-steps-to-becoming-an-isle-of-man-tax-resident

This is my latest plan😬.
0% CGT🎉.


Isle of Man is great, 0% CGT is great.

Caribbean weather is better tho 😂


Not hanging around for the budget then? I am sure it's going to be a good one 😂


I'm off, 39% CGT FFS

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2024/oct/10/rachel-reeves-capital-gains-tax-rise-budget


Come join our group:

nostr:note1mry9lsk6jsa730tchq7zuvhdqlwj0ed83xdj84fnepn2yp92jrdqkcal24


It's mad, innit?

Which part of the world are you leaving to?


Just check the house prices I didn't realise the houses weren't that expensive there. Compared to Jersey, Guernsey etc its not that expensive


Not sure, maybe the Caribbean.

Maybe Malta if WW3 doesn't kick off


Yes, very reasonable.

Have you see nostr:npub1lr2zzf989mvf393y0tv39ara6a4vddkd6y87z784up9vl6ks6j3qtudl6a  video from there?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jHHpPu_YvX0


Hahah funny how they tried the peer pressure tactic of saying this what other people are doing


Yes I watched it the other day, it looked like a nice place to live. Plus being a small island the climate should be kind of like Cornwall but with less sun. I can setup my avocado plantation there 😁


💯

Also the 40 - 50% BTC adoption is amazing


It’d be a shame if u lost ur keys in a boating accident and they washed ashore on the Isle of Man🤔😳🌅 https://image.nostr.build/7e7c81b7a27025c6e207b0e808f3d79590569e0d24257bad4bcf994ef091ad6c.jpg


Their lack of appreciation was the slipping grip on their careers. Hopefully they listened to you and were curious.


Slowly, then suddenly. I am meeting in person in the Caribbean in a couple of weeks time. I expect to have orange pilled him by then 😁


It’s more common than you might think 😂


Yeah that's true they have done very well on BTC map.


bitcoin is everywhere... and nowhere


I don't think they understood how little they understood 😂

https://i.nostr.build/yGyCiUPvy3prORB9.jpg


Many such cases. They should pay me to fly down and educate them.


I think primarily because CoinCorner are located there.


it's in this very room, it's there when you go to church, when you pay your taxes


Should’ve turned that sesh into an orange pilling one for all of them


You can join me on my cruise if you like. We set off on the 25th Oct from the UK, arriving in the Caribbean from the 5th Nov 😂


Tell them "there is no spoon!" 😂


Yep! 😉


My relocation advisor wanted to know where I kept my Bitcoin and how I intend to move it out of the UK.

He didn't understand when I said, "It's in my head, it goes wherever I go"

Then his tax friend joined the call and explained his clients deposit their Bitcoin in the bank. I don't think he appreciated me laughing.

I then explained "I am the bank"

This is going to be a struggle for me to explain!


Nothing like being your own money transmitting service! And no CGT if you stay away from fiat...


Ha ha, very true!!


Cheers will do👍🏻.


😂 😂 😂 It's not going to be easy, keep on


We’re in WW4 already. I took command last year. Everything will be fine. 🫂

Here are a couple of my alts in space ranger mode. We got this.
https://nostrcheck.me/media/2aadfb8ac7d43aca6d164ed99248147910048269601ff60d4463c4d5b3abfdcd/f3226a4daf80c7dfe40a0183229ef1fb68bfd2ad762dfa0578210e1cc1a818ca.webp
https://nostrcheck.me/media/2aadfb8ac7d43aca6d164ed99248147910048269601ff60d4463c4d5b3abfdcd/2725088de38fb638f4cd0392ac7105da046eec6e53f8498890721f7f4c54bf92.webp


😂

Who won WW3?

Asking for a fren!


Humankind won.

My sacred vow was to save as many humans as possible. To bring world peace 🕊

99% of humanity has been controlled by the tip top 1% since … ALWAYS.

Many of us have fought lifelong for others & we have come together to create a more perfect union. Viva La Love Revolution 🫂
—-
Frog 🐸 means: Forever rely on God to some. Whatever one believes is a God is their choice. Not on me to tell anyone what is right for them. Though I hope they lead with love ❤

While we accept all humans have value, it doesn’t mean we will all have the same roles nor should we. #Love #Winz #always


Fair play to you for having the tenacity to explain it LOL 🤣👏👏👏


I messaged him lots of info about Bitcoin, let's see what he knows by the time we meet IRL 😂


In that case, we will wait for an interesting update from you! 🤣🤣🤣


6th November, watch this space.


pencil down on my calendar 🤣👏


I think this shift scares the shit out of a ton of people…


You might need a new relocation advisor.

And the better answer was probably, what bitcoin?


Onward 🫡

Onward 🫡


My relocation advisor is location dependent, if I don't relocate close to him, I won't need his services 😂

I am travelling by boat to meet him, so I hope I don't have a boating accident and loose my Bitcoin 😂


If it doesn't yet, it soon will.


I hope I'm not ruining the positive spirit... just because it's in your head doesn't prevent the state from claiming the right to tax it, so I think their questions are valid - even though they don't understand the tech.

I'm sure you're probably already aware of this. Just thought I'd mention this for others - too many examples of people paying a heavy price for getting these things wrong.

Good thing you're getting out in time and the UK doesn't (yet) have an exit tax!


what county are you relocating to Mike?


CGT is payable on realised Bitcoin profits at 20% in the UK.

Most onramps and most offramps for BTC are KYC'd meaning while the tax authority don't care how you made gains, they will take 20% of them.

There is a movement that looks at non KYC Bitcoin options such as Bisq, CoinJoin (Jam) and Liquid as obfuscation methods for Bitcoin, but ultimately if you want to spend your BTC profits in a fiat world you have to pay tax.

The UK does have an exit tax, you currently have to pay 20% CGT on unrealised assets (i.e. Bitcoin gains etc...) this is going up to 39% on the 30th October budget, The only unknown is when this 39% will come in to effect.

If I cant exit before this raise comes into effect, I will remain a UK tax payer, but be non-dom.


I'm considering several options, if WW3 calms down, probably Malta.

Otherwise the Caribbean or South America.

I'm looking at adopting the 3 flags approach, i.e. have separate countries for passport(s), residency and financial affairs.


Wow, ok. I was a bit unclear what the exit tax situation was as I remembered seeing a lot of discussion around the topic, but you're saying that some exit tax is already in place?

I did some googling before posting and all I saw was headlines on some _potential_ tax being considered, but of course these things are complicated... and 39% is insane.


It is not specifically an exit tax, but you do have to "settle your account" by paying CGT on the profits you would make if you sold your assets at the time of leaving the UK.

i.e. unrealised CGT gains


So effectively an exit tax 😟 I didn't realize it was already that bad...

Well, best of luck with that speedy exit then!


Thank you


My relocation advisor wanted to know where I kept my Bitcoin and how I intend to move it out of the UK.

He didn't understand when I said, "It's in my head, it goes wherever I go"

Then his tax friend joined the call and explained his clients deposit their Bitcoin in the bank. I don't think he appreciated me laughing.

I then explained "I am the bank"

This is going to be a struggle for me to explain!


P2P no kyc! 😎😎

P2P no kyc! 😎😎


Wait till you tell them you bought it all peer to peer with cash and no KYC!


I could, but I’d be lying 😔


Good day to start


I am a big supporter of non KYC services like Bisq or obfuscation services like CoinJoin (Jam) or Liquid. And I would fight for the right to use them and I fight against increasingly aggressive KYC regulations.

I, however, choose not to use them, I am a semi public figure and I am not trying to hide anything from authorities. For example, you see the real me on my NOSTR profile.

I intend to avoid or leave any oppressive tax regime, but do it fully within the scope of the law.

I don’t believe we need to fight these authorities as I believe Bitcoin is a better system and its victory, long term, is inevitable.

That said, I fully support the right for anybody to maintain anonymity and to use non surveillance technology for any purpose, including financial services, as they see fit.


Fair enough, I get that. But buying btc with no KYC isn’t a bad thing in anyway. Actually it’s the way it was intended. P2P with apps like bisq or many other platforms introduce problems because your trading with people you don’t know.

With Vexl, you only trade with friends and friends but in a way that’s private.

So you leverage your real world social graph to buy bitcoin, or honey, or offer your services. Maybe you know a good plumber who’s also a bitcoin coiner?

When you build local circular economies you now only build communities you push bitcoin further as well.


Bitcoin is a public blockchain, deliberately so. It was created this way as openness allows proof. Proof prevents corruption through proof of transaction and proof of reserves.

This is how El Salvador’s government proves its holdings to its citizens and to the rest of the world.

This is incongruous with privacy, which is the point the Monero contingent make on here.

That said, the ability to tie specific wallets or transactions requires an additional layer of transparency. It is easy to prove you own a wallet address by spending or by signing a message with the private key. It is much harder for a third party to prove your wallet address without your cooperation.

This is where chain analysis firms like Arkham or governments ability to KYC on and off ramps fill this gap.

Anonymity within Bitcoin, therefore is very difficult to achieve. There are mitigations you can make to obfuscate your digital footprint, but in this case the Monero faction here on NOSTR are correct.

In the same way the Blocksize (fork) wars were not about right or wrong.

Big blocks and a hard forking protocol make Bitcoin transactions cheaper and faster, but at the cost of decentralisation and scarcity, meaning governments can shut you down.

Small blocks allow decentralisation and hard caps like the 21M coins, but they do not allow the base layer to be used for day to day transactions at scale.

So it is with encrypted or non encrypted blockchains. A non encrypted blockchain like Bitcoin prevents corruption at the cost of privacy. An encrypted blockchain such as Monero provides privacy but allows corruption.

I fully appreciate your agenda with Vexl, and I fully support it, but my advice is don’t allow your personal agenda to blind you to reality or an opposing argument. Opposing arguments are rarely wrong, just come from a different agenda. To adapt a Bitcoin mantra, they are not the same.

Good luck growing Vexl, I wish you well, but also don't be afraid to state your intended bias at the start of a discussion. I've only just looked at your profile header.


I expect an increased CGT will come into effect immediately if they really do it.

Afaik, dropping your British citizenship wouldn't trigger a CGT on Bitcoin holdings unless you also liquidate to dirty fiat at the same time.


I don't think this is the case unless you have some other complexities around residency.


I think you’re right about immediate CGT rise implementation.

Citizenship would be the last element I’m looking at.

While I may or may not leave the UK tax system dependent on the increase in CGT in unrealised assets (kind of an exit tax), I probably won’t renounce my citizenship, rather obtain multiple passports.

But all my decisions are monitoring the world situation and are flexible.


Thank you, but you are unclear as to what you don't believe or why and you haven't provided any evidence.

If I'm wrong about anything and you have evidence to prove it, I would be extremely grateful if you could provide it.

Even HMRC can make mistakes 😂


Oh, I don’t have ill will,  I do things my way and I talk about how I do them. That’s all and I agree with you most everything that you say here I am just simply having conversations that’s why I like Nostr because we can have these long form discussions.

I love bitcoin I like talking about bitcoin with others. I appreciate absorbing your views, and I appreciate you taking the time to write them out.

I have no agenda, other than pushing bitcoin forward in every possible way.

Of course I liked your original post. That’s why I commented is because we are really building tools that are outside of the traditional systems.

And for me, it’s not about subverting government overside or anything. It’s just about the fact that I don’t like my information appearing in someone else’s accounts whether that be a centralized exchange or a face-to-face trade I still prefer cash.

And honestly, I just want people to start learning and studying bitcoin it’s also important to understand why bitcoin was created in the first place and that’s why I believe that we are all taking steps to educate and help others on their path.


Agreed 💯

I wish you the best of luck with your project.

Also FYI, I had to switch from Primal desktop to Damus iPhone just to find the 100% emoji.

There’s still a lot of work to do 😂


I think currently one of the biggest challenges that we face for adoption is the fact that most ways people  reccommend to buy bitcoin require a lot of permission and a lot of waiting you need to submit your IDs your electricity bill take a selfie and then you have to wait.

This is quite hard for most people and puts up unnecessary red tape that people shouldn’t have to jump through just to buy $50-$100 worth of bitcoin. This is what I’m against I believe that KYC and these practices hurt adoption.

I think it should be easy to buy bitcoin and I think we should have an ability to buy it with friends and friends of friends in a trusted way so that we don’t get scammed, but also we want to grow the bitcoin economy. We want to show people how you can earn money in bitcoin.

We all have a story of riding in the back of a taxi in orange pilling, our taxi driver and sending them bitcoin, but no one prepares them for the hurdles that they face to be able to either sell that bitcoin or buy more.

That’s why I like local bitcoin communities, and meet ups

I don’t believe that I’m blinded by my agenda or my mission. I have one and I’m doing everything I can to educate others on what I believe.

If we truly believe in value for value, I think it’s actually a very positive thing to seek out people in your community who you would like to cooperate with and pay for goods and services and bitcoin with.

It’s like my cleaning lady. She’s great and overtime. We began to talk about bitcoin while she was hesitant at first I agreed to start paying her what we agreed on and then tipping her a little extra in bitcoin because I really value what she does and I want to give her something that I value.

This is the way, use whatever tools work best for you and I love having options.


I have a love hate relationship with primal and I often switch between the 2 :)


HMRC are very good at getting everything wrong.

https://image.nostr.build/f2c526638f2bdc6fc1206c5efa504938ba0fa6c631371943de141ac29f5d99f9.jpg


Thanks for this.

I am not discussing CGT

I am discussing CGT on unrealised gains.

This is what happened to Roger Ver.

He paid all his taxes correctly and left the US.

However, he left holding undeclared Bitcoin, which even at that time had made an unrealised profit.

He is being held in Spain for not declaring his Bitcoin and not paying CGT on his "unrealised gains" as of 2014.

He is not liable, however, for the gains that BTC has made since 2014.

While the UK is a different regime, the same applies here.

The only difference with BTC is you can take it in your head or on a piece of paper. You cannot take a second home with you.


Can you link to something that supports that *unrealised* CGT is a thing in the UK? I've not found anything that says it is unless you dispose of the asset in which case, that's realised, not unrealised.


Not a great link, but my solicitor and account have shown my printed documents, if I get electronic copies I'll make them public.


Professionals don't like it when you ask them to prove what they are saying 😂


This explains it in a roundabout way:

Held-over gains

Before leaving the UK, it is important to check whether an individual’s switch to becoming non-UK resident/non-UK ordinarily resident will trigger previous CGT liabilities that they have deferred by the use of holdover relief. If you  leave the UK within 6 years of receiving a gift that you elected to hold over the gains, a CGT charge could be triggered on the whole of the held over gains.

https://trinityfinancial.ie/leaving-the-uk-capital-gains-tax-implications/


Thanks. This seems to check out. I've added it to my thought processes. 12 days to immediate CGT changes. That's not much time to make a decision.


I’ll be on a boat in the middle of the Atlantic en-route to St. Kitts & Nevis.

No, I’m not going to have a boating accident, it’s a cruise ship with 5,000 passengers onboard 😂


This sounds to my (totally non-educated) ear as a potential misunderstanding. These kinds of misunderstanding are quite common even among professionals, as they are often trained to work and think within one jurisdiction and not look at the big picture - which can be totally different.

I've been there, almost listened to the advice of "certified professionals", and I've been able to avoid costly mistakes by being extremely meticulous and searching for better advisors until someone really knows what they're talking about.

That part you copied seems to be about an _existing_ tax liability that just needs to be settled at some point. Moving switches  that "some point" to be immediate, as they don't let you postpone it into the future after you leave. If so, it's not an exit tax, just "settling current accounts".

There is a similar confusing reference to an "exit tax" in this video:

https://youtu.be/XD_97P_L7GA?t=285

...where it seems that _existing_ profits of a company are taxed when the company exits the UK. That's understandable and not an "exit tax" - just the settlement of existing liabilities at that moment. Those taxes would have been due anyway, just later.

I don't see anything about extra taxes incurred because of exiting, except in those future plans.

Again, I might be wrong about any of this, but so can the "professionals" - worth checking thoroughly with multiple professionals before you pay too much!


Yes, you've hit the nuance on the head. It isn't an exit tax, but it is a tax that you incur by exiting as you are settling a tax bill you would've had if you'd sold the appreciated assets at the point of leaving.

I found it very difficult to explain that nuance without calling it an exit tax, which caused the discrepancy as others correctly pointed out there is not exit tax.

As you've gone through a similar journey, I always like to ask people, do you know anything I don't know, but should?

Have a great weekend and thanks